"24 business hours"

[JonLP24]

I strongly suspect that Karl Rove to be indicted from TruthOut was due to an insider to deceive and give the impression it was about to happen to ridicule them for not turning to be accurate. I have a feeling anyway.

[Lee-Lee]

1. Wait- I'm confused

I must have totally missed whatever the backstory here was.

[kentauros]

122. I'm confused simply by the incoherency of the OP's first sentence!

Could I get a translation from someone?

[Marrah_G]

141. A poster that the Op hates wrote an article predicting Rove's indictment

Back in 2008 when many were convinced, including insiders in DC that Rove would be indicted, With Pitt wrote an article on his blog. Truth-Out. The poster has decided to dig this up out of the past to try and humiliate a poster he does not like. It is nasty, disgusting, stalkerish behavior.

[arcane1]

144. Any idea what brought this on?

Seems like a random act of dicketry

[Marrah_G]

155. I agree with your assessment.

[markpkessinger]

153. "Nasty, disgusting, stalkerish behavior" it certainly is . . .

Utterly revolting that someone would do this!

[question everything]

166. Is this why Pitt posted a farwell note? (nt)

[Marrah_G]

167. yes- his was the final straw for him

[question everything]

170. Thanks. Too bad. This is the problem with people who charge forward waving the flags

they form easy targets for the ones who just tail along.

Like many, I hope that he will rest, take the hot humid summer off, and be back.

[muriel_volestrangler]

217. He didn't say that. He just said his 'cork had popped'

It could just as easily be something about the primaries. Or BlackLivesMatter. Or DU spending too much time navel gazing. Or something that matter to him, but has completely passed me by.

If he wanted us to know, he could have told us.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

2. I think I'd better clear my cache.

[pinboy3niner]

3. Definitely!

I have a feeling anyway.

[hlthe2b]

4. There are a few of us around who will pick up on this, but most will find this to be cryptic

and indecipherable.

For the record, I don't doubt we get trolled all the time on politically charged "news" stories...

[11 Bravo]

5. Huh?

If I remember back, I think I understand your reference (Valerie Plame?), but I'm honestly not sure.

[RobertEarl]

63. Note below

Those clapping their hands that Rove squirted away free and clear.

Shameful exposition that makes DU suck.

[pinboy3niner]

65. Yes, that's what's happening here

[Shrike47]

6. Does this relate back to 2006? Are you saying some 'leaks' are intended to make news sources

look bad by being intentionally untrue? So The New York Times bit on the Hillary story and the editors are viewed as idiots.

[pinboy3niner]

7. Links to the story you're referencing and the 24 business hours remark would help

Many aren't familiar with the earlier quote and have not seen the new TruthOut story.

[oberliner]

11. Here's the original story

Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators

By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report
Saturday 13 May 2006

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent more than half a day Friday at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm representing Karl Rove.

During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 business hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning.

http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/62791:karl-rove-indicted-on-charges-of-perjury-lying-to-investigators

[pinboy3niner]

12. Thanks

My impression from the OP was that there was some new story on TO. Apparently that's not the case, which makes the OP all the more mystifying.

[oberliner]

14. Not sure why the poster brought up the topic

I just can't believe that it was almost 10 years ago!

[Mojorabbit]

26. I can't believe that I have been on this board so long that I knew just what

the op was referencing. I remember how my hopes were dashed. I hope it happens one day and that Rove's karma catches up to him.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. ...to make us feel old?

[oberliner]

30. Mission accomplished

And that moment (with the banner) was 12 years ago!

[pinboy3niner]

35. Ah but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now

[oberliner]

37. You like the Byrds version better than Dylan's original?

For me it's a tossup.

[pinboy3niner]

39. Same here

But I sat in the front row once to see McGuinn do it solo, so that tipped me.

[oberliner]

40. I saw Dylan and McGuinn perform it together

Along with Tom Petty, Neil Young, Eric Clapton, and George Harrison.

It was quite a night!

[pinboy3niner]

41. I saw that on TV

Very cool that you got to be there!

[passiveporcupine]

247. OMG, that is just awesome!

Wish I could have seen that live.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. It's still goddamn funny, I don't care who that burns

"...24 business hours to get his affairs in order..."

Anybody who thought a federal prosecutor would actually say such a thing is a fucking moron.



You know a true embarrassment when its legacy still draws a chuckle damn near a decade later.

[oberliner]

31. Agreed

Were you a DUer at the time and if so did you follow the story closely?

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. I actually bet a bunch of DUers at the time that the story was bullshit

See the link to the thread below.

I told them it was nonsense as soon as I read Leopold's story.

Why it's being brought up now is a mystery to me, but at the time it was hilarious. It really was a symptom of how desperate people were for a solution to Bush. "Fitz" was going to save them. It was a childish belief with childish proponents.

[oberliner]

38. Just read through some of that

You really mixed it up on that thread. Well done!

People are often very inclined to believe things that they want to believe even in the absence of any good evidence.

[geek tragedy]

50. .

Cooley Hurd (1000+ posts) | |
29. I certainly have no quarrel with those who question the veracity of...
...the story itself. But many (not including you, of course) seem to be attempting to disprove the Leopold story by assassinating the characters of both Pitt and Leopold (by bringing up Jason's former drug problem & Pitt's drunken rant from the other night).

That's all I meant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1227513

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. Very often have so many been so wrong about something so obvious

It's the Internet!

[geek tragedy]

85. And we have a GBCW for posterity's sake.

I wonder how long this one will last.

[stevenleser]

127. Fair enough, but what was done by the Bush admin was a crime. And believing Rove was involved, since

he was head of the political arm of the White House, was not hard to believe.

[alcibiades_mystery]

131. Rove was of course involved

That's utterly beside the point. The story wasn't an opinion column speculating that Rove was involved. Everybody knew Rove outed Plame, deliberately and as revenge. It was non-controversial.

The story stated (and Truthout editors subsequently insisted) that an actual event of indictment had occurred on May 12, 2006. That turned out to be false. Indeed, Rove never was indicted. The whole story was malarkey. But they claimed it was multiply sourced and fact checked to death. And we never received an explanation of what happened.

That's a separate question from whether anybody believed that Rove was involved in the Plame affair. Only an idiot would suggest he *wasn't* involved.

[geek tragedy]

142. the most ironic thing was that the leak to Novak was from one of the few sane

people in the Bush admin, Richard Armitage.

The vendetta against Wilson/Plame was Rove, but the leak to the Prince of Darkness was a different thing.

In retrospect, probably would have been better to pursue that whole lying about WMD's and corruption at DOJ thing.

[msanthrope]

172. You are very gracious my friend considering the vitriol directed at you

For your common sense questioning of the story.

[stevenleser]

177. Vitriol? Are there posts I'm missing?

I may have folks on ignore

[msanthrope]

178. I was necalling threads closer to the time...... and I think some long-standing grudges developed

then.

[CTyankee]

150. "Fitzmas"!

[tavernier]

185. Yes, we were all waiting for Fitzmas.

That was back when I was KeysDisease, not long before I left DU for many a year. Dubya had destroyed my nervous system; I was severely depressed. Will told me to take some time, get my head straight, come back when I knew I had healed. I appreciated the advice. Maybe he'll follow it himself, but I don't know. DU is so very different these days. There are many kind and good souls who come here because of a strong social conscience and a desire to improve this world. Sadly, they attract people from a darker side of the world who only derive their pleasure from destruction.

Take care, Will.

[msanthrope]

176. Alcibades mystery was an oasis of common sense in a desert of hysteria. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

180. Ha!

I wouldn't go that far. In any case, from reading comments here and elsewhere, I suppose I'm now in the group "Despicable, asshole, dickish, bully, creepy, jealous, stalker." O how I've fallen! Just kidding. I was always this way.

Reading DU today is like...

Jeez! The wailing and gnashing of teeth.

As I said upthread, I have no idea why this came back up, and the OP hasn't returned to clarify. I didn't bring it up. I have in the past, though. I also have brought up another poster who disappeared rather than own up to a bet on a certain national championship college football game, ahem. Whatever, right?

The poster being "grieved" (I mean, seriously?) is as close as DU gets to a public figure, and it's just the case that people are gonna goof on a public figure from time to time, especially if that public figure a) is deliberately controversial and b) has stepped in his own dogshit occasionally, as in the 24 business hour stuff. The drama and moaning (Despicable! Assholes!) over it is very high school, but not particularly interesting.

Anyway, y'all enjoy. Dude that left will be back. I have a running offer of 260 on the over/under for the recs his "I'm Back, Fuck the Haters!" thread will receive. The group therapy session will continue downthread.

[Surya Gayatri]

216. "Dude that left will be back." And, with similar fanfare and self-promotion, I might add.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. What is the new TruthOut story? Is it worth talking about?

[pinboy3niner]

16. See oberliner's posts

Preferably within 24 business hours.

[tritsofme]

8. Not quite sure what you are aiming at, but it is pretty obvious what happened with "Fitzmas"

is that the Truthout/Pitt/Leopold crew lied, and made up the story, hoping that an indictment was in fact inevitable and that their lie would later be backed up by events. There was no indictment, they made a bad bet, pretty simple.

24 business hours? Are you really still defending that nonsense? They didn't need a conspiracy theory to be made to look like fools.

[egduj]

9. One of the most entertaining months on DU.

From what I hear. I wasn't a member or anything like that back then.

[oberliner]

19. Yes, it was

Quite an entertaining episode.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. I won a bet, I know that...

Nobody ever owned it, tho.

[treestar]

66. It was my first month at DU

I remember waiting for the indictment!

[merrily]

67. Thanks for my first smile on an otherwise sad thread.

[oberliner]

10. William Pitt: "I just got off the phone with Jason Leopold..."

who clarified something for me that is pretty damned important. In his article, he said:

"During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning."

In point of fact, those 24 hours are "business hours," i.e. starting on Monday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1186820

What inspired your reference to this blast from the bast?

[SidDithers]

15. DU rec...

'cause this is awesome.

Sid

[pinboy3niner]

17. It's HUGH!

[oberliner]

20. Merry Fitzmas!

Too bad it is such an infrequent holiday.

[msanthrope]

169. It's series!. nt

[geek tragedy]

18. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1186820#1214272

[SidDithers]

22. That thread...

Sid

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. I'm all up in that thread

[geek tragedy]

44. From the original announcement thread:

Seabiscuit (1000+ posts) | |
367. I sure hope Leopold's sources prove to be reliable this time.
If not, you and Leopold have staked your reputation on a bad story and your many followers may cast a jaundiced eye towards future "scoops" you endorse.

If so, you'll hear nothing but praise from moi from now on.

[geek tragedy]

45. .

alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) | |
59. I will change my sig line
When a credible news source reports it!

Stability is a good thing for sig lines.

[greytdemocrat]

51. LOL

That time period and events were hilarious.

Big egos and bigger mouths.

[SidDithers]

61. "Big egos and bigger mouths"...

That's a bad combination.

Sid

[merrily]

70. Indeed.

[Cha]

193. Yeah, and not the last time, unfortunately. :(

[Surya Gayatri]

218. Elvis and Keith Richards said it SO well...

"To me, my biggest fear is getting a big head, and that is when I get the hammer. Because it's very easy in this game to believe you're something special."

~Keith Richards

[Hissyspit]

181. No, it's not.

Me, I'll take posters who occasionally get things wrong, but endeavor to add real value, over those who add nothing of value.

[SidDithers]

186. Yeah, it is...nt

Sid

[grasswire]

189. well said, well said

I agree that the watering hole has been overtaken by hyenas, and not in a good way.

[aikoaiko]

21. And, boom, something flies out of the memory hole with a mighty sound.

[littlewolf]

24. not everything that goes into the memory hole stays there … eom ;P

[randome]

23. If you were expecting to make someone feel better, you just did the opposite, I would think.

Assuming that embarrassment or remorse is part of someone's emotional makeup in the first place, that is.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Nye Bevan]

25. "KARL ROVE HAS BEEN INDICTED"

For those who have been waiting for this, here it is. For those who still doubt, well, I guess this is the big throwdown. We are reporting this has happened, we have checked and re-checked our sources. Truthout is breaking this first.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051306W.shtml

Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators
By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report

Saturday 13 May 2006

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent more than half a day Friday at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm representing Karl Rove.

During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1179819

[oberliner]

34. Good old William Pitt

Whatever happened to him?

[geek tragedy]

42. .

WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) | |
61. They don't have it yet
No one does. Until about twelve minutes ago. That's what happens when you have an exclusive.

[SidDithers]

47. Has truth out scrubbed the story from their site?...

that link goes to 404.

Edit: still there but under an archive link now:
http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/62791:karl-rove-indicted-on-charges-of-perjury-lying-to-investigators

Sid

[geek tragedy]

49. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1217129&mesg_id=1217212

[SidDithers]

52. LOL...

This thread is all kinds of awesome.

I think I'll bookmark it.



Sid

[geek tragedy]

53. You and Octafish both rec'd it! nt

[SidDithers]

54. My good friend octafish of DU knows comedy gold when he sees it...nt

Sid

[geek tragedy]

55. The piece de resistance:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2006/05/15/210390/-Breakin-Will-Pitt-Home-From-Pub-Wilson-Leopold-Source

Nothing gets deleted from the Internet.

[SidDithers]

60. I had never seen that...

Thanks for the link. The internet really is forever.

It's a revealing glimpse into the personality behind the POSUCS and Trojan Horse firebombs that were thrown by that author recently.

Cheers
Sid

[Spazito]

106. Wow!

[Octafish]

129. I'm not your friend.

My friends work to put the BFEE behind bars.

[Octafish]

125. Yes, because I support seeing Rove, Cheney and the BFEE in prison.

Unlike many on DU these days, I see.

[cwydro]

68. I had forgotten this whole thing.

I can't find the "drunken rant" though...anyone have a link?

[geek tragedy]

69. I believe this particular drunken rant was deleted. nt

[cwydro]

71. Oh darn.

Nothing like a good drunken rant lol.

[geek tragedy]

72. this rant, directed at Skinner, copied in this Dkos diary is pretty

epic.

Remember: this was directed at Skinner

[cwydro]

75. But no way to link to it?

It's lost in history?

[geek tragedy]

76. deleted for obviously reasons. but it made quite a few ripples at the time nt

[cwydro]

77. Ah, so now I understand the GBCW post.

Fortunately, no one ever means those.

[geek tragedy]

80. he's GBCWing again? I guess it had been a few years since the last one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1056736&mesg_id=1059497

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1517286

[SidDithers]

78. See geek's post #55 upthread...nt

A diarist at Kos copied it before it was deleted at DU.

Sid

[cwydro]

82. Oh dear.

Thanks for directing me to it.

Wow.

[JDPriestly]

117. And the rest of us, including you, have never been wrong about anything.

That's a rare thing. A person who is always right and always posts the truth.

Wish I could claim that honor.

Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody gets fooled sometimes. Takes a real nasty person to revel in a mistake made years ago by someone who is basically a reliable, good person.

Oh, well. Guess we aren't all perfect. I certainly am not. I can be pretty nasty at times myself.

I have learned in my life to be careful about pushing other people down because the next person to be pushed down might be me. And it can hurt.

Kindness is a quality that it is wise to develop. Because being kind helps us to make friends. And when we do make mistakes, our friends forgive and forget them. When we indulge in unkindness, eventually we get what we deserve: unkindness from others.

Why in the world is that ancient thread being brought up today?

It's just a mean thing to do. And those who dredged it up will be sorry. That's my guess.

From one who has been there and done that.

[grasswire]

183. ^^^^^^^^

Bunch of freaking hyenas here.

[awoke_in_2003]

203. More like jackals or buzzards....

Except both of those serve a purpose.

[Blue_In_AK]

213. Plus a million, JD.

Too much ugliness here these days.

[Damansarajaya]

79. If I remember correctly, Karl Rove refused to testify, refused to respond to subpeona.

So, how exactly is this wrong?

[geek tragedy]

91. it was a hoax. Rove was never indicted, and those who questioned the veracity

of the hoax were called fuckwits, cretins, etc--the people responsible for pushing the factually false story at DU repeatedly boasted about how those who had doubted them would owe everyone an apology and be revealed to have no interest in the truth, blah blah blah

To the point where the owner of DU himself was attacked as a cretin and told he was unworthy--because he doubted the story.

[Cha]

195. So did you guys Ever get an apology? or just ".. haven't you ever made a mistake... blah blah.."?

[sufrommich]

32. Good times,good times.

[geek tragedy]

56. I think the post quoted

at the following link should be the subject of a dramatic reading, annually.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7014023

[geek tragedy]

83. Your service and sacrifice will not be forgotten, brave internet flame warrior. nt

[Damansarajaya]

92. You ought to make your living writing . . .

What, no market for puerile snark?

Well, you can always make fun of those who do then.

[geek tragedy]

99. you're right, people who write stuff on the Internet should be above criticism nt

[Mojorabbit]

214. This is not just criticism. It is really ugly. Truly. There is a person

on the other end of all this snark. A person with feelings. Reading this thread is really revealing

[merrily]

221. +1.

I learned a lesson. As much of a totally disingenuous, amoral shill I might think someone, my opinion of him or her can go lower.

It's not something I was happy to learn.

[MelissaB]

231. Word!

I don't see how people ignore the fact that there is a real person on the receiving end of all of this.

[geek tragedy]

236. if people expect special treatment because they're semi-famous, they have to

grow thinner skins.

Pitt has gotten special treatment from the admins here--there's literally no other poster who would have been allowed back after he did what he did to get himself banned.

and it's not like he can't dish it out, as those who watched his interactions with bobolink can attest

[Mojorabbit]

237. You are bringing up "special treatment" as some sort of defense.

My post was not about Will. It was about the ugly mob behavior in this thread which is inexcusable.

[geek tragedy]

238. ugly mob behavior? It's people yukking it up over perhaps the all-time

greatest fail in the history of DU, a faceplant of epic proportions.

I think the reaction to this thread is a little overwrought.

I certainly wouldn't have started this thread, and I was surprised at who did start it.

But, "24 business hours" is a part of Pitt's legacy, and he's not going to be able to run away and hide every time someone brings it up.

What he could do is just write something like "yeah, that was a huge fuck up, I made an ass of myself, and I really was out of line in how I treated people who were rightfully skeptical of that line of bullshit. I'm embarrassed to have peddled such bullshit, and I'll try to do better. And, yes, it does seem rather comical and absurd in retrospect." That's what he should have done, years ago.

But, he's never come close to holding himself accountable for it, all the while trying to play the part of calling bullshit on everyone else.

And then he quits DU because someone mentions it?

Are we going to have posts hidden every time they contain the phrase "24 business hours" because they make our local demi-celebrity uncomfortable?

[Mojorabbit]

239. You are being coy and I suspect you know it.

Enjoy the bully behavior on this thread if you wish. It saddens me and really what is the point of it except to hurt a member of the community? Have a wonderful day.

[geek tragedy]

240. You would have to ask the OP--who generally tends towards the leftmost wing of this site's

membership, why he posted what appears to be a defense of the 24 business hours nonsense.

As I said, I wouldn't start a thread like this myself.

On the other hand, I get a chuckle out of tales of absurdity and hubris.

[Mojorabbit]

241. I am not talking about the op..I am commenting on the contents of the thread. nt

[geek tragedy]

243. there is much about the behavior in that episode that can be rightfully mocked.

Hell, it should be mocked.

So, yes, when people bring up a fiasco fueled by recklessness, ego, hubris, stubbornness, and gullibility, there are going to be snickers.

Especially when those who should have learned a lesson from that episode pointedly refuse to acknowledge the lessons that should have been learned.

[Mojorabbit]

244. Well then enjoy yourself. nt

[SidDithers]

233. The flame warrior has flamed out...nt

Sid

[geek tragedy]

234. and now his watch has ended.

RIP mrtrickster

[alcibiades_mystery]

235. Previously banned

Buh bye.

[Cal Carpenter]

43. ...

[Octafish]

46. Scooter and Judy and The Aspens

Like Scooter Libby reminded Judy Miller, then an imprisoned NYT reporter, they're all connected underground.

Just noticed: they're white where they show.

[pinboy3niner]

48. And in other news...

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

[Rex]

58. Now would be a good time to check on Abe.

[pinboy3niner]

59. Fish lives!

And many more years to him!

[Rex]

62. Abemen!

[marym625]

198. +1bazillion!

[Rex]

57. Yeah I remember that, he did strongly suspect.

Most of us were hoping it would happen. Slow night?

[merrily]

73. Round up all the usual [strike]sadists [/strike] suspects.

[MineralMan]

86. GBCW posts are always subject to comment.

They always have been, often because the person leaving often returns almost before leaving. As for me, I just post "bye" or "seeya" in such threads. Others, who have been around longer than I have, sometimes have other comments to make.

The bottom line is that announcing a departure from a discussion forum isn't really needed. Just slip out the back, Jack. GBCW threads are really unneeded. They're just a way for a poster to make sure everyone knows that the poster is gone. Otherwise, nobody might notice. Many people drop away from posting on this forum and others and the event passes without any foofaraw.

It's guaranteed, though, that a cryptic GBCW post will generate a long thread if the poster is a prolific poster. The posts in the thread will be a mix of people pleading for the poster not to leave and people more or less celebrating the departure. It's the nature of forums like this one that some like and some dislike almost any prolific poster.

Sometimes the pleas work and the poster doesn't actually leave. Other times, the poster returns almost immediately as though the GBCW thread never existed. In some situations, the poster shows up on some other forum to complain about the forum he or she just left. There are many forums dedicated to such complaints.

People come; people go. Sometimes they return; sometimes they don't. Sometimes they even return with a different screen name. It doesn't matter, really. Discussion and arguments continue, because that's the nature of places like DU. Forums as busy as DU barely register the leaving of someone. The discussion just goes on, because the topics are much larger than any individual.

I promise that if I leave, either voluntarily or because I can no longer physically participate, there won't be a GBCW post announcing it. My only reason to be here is to share my opinion in my posts. If I'm not here, my opinion won't be missed, because there are many people posting their opinions. I've never seen much use in GBCW posts, so I just post "bye" or "seeya" as a reply to the OP. It doesn't matter, really.

[merrily]

89. These are not comments on a GBCW thread, though.

Thanks for the post, but I have seen good-bye threads before. And I've also seen disgusting sadists posting their dumbass one liners before. Nothing unique about DU.

Well, almost nothing. Will was as close to a unique poster as DU can boast. Scratch that. As DU used to be able to post.

[MineralMan]

95. He does have a way with words, certainly.

So do many DUers. There are some excellent political writers here. Sadly, he could also fly off the handle and strike out sometimes. Other DUers also have that in common with him.

[merrily]

97. I disagree. I don't think many DUers have a way with words.

Certainly not the ones who drove out Will.

Most humans can fly off the handle sometimes.

[MineralMan]

98. OK. We all see the world differently, I suppose. nt

[MineralMan]

108. To elaborate a little:

I really stopped reading Pitt's posts after the POSUCS thing. I wasn't around for the discussion mentioned in this thread, so I'm not much interested in it. Flying off the handle is sort of expected, I guess, but this website is called Democratic Underground. I've never been a fan of attacking a sitting Democratic President, especially using vile language to do so.

See, I see that as more than just "flying off the handle." I see it as destructive, politically. I understand the unhappiness with a family health situation, but it turns out that wasn't Obama's fault in any way, and there was a solution available. The habit some have on DU of attaching blame for things to the President seems completely out of place here, somehow.

I don't like it, but it's not my website, so when it happens, my tendency is to discount the posts of anyone who does so, especially in a completely unjustified way. .It costs a poster who does that any trust I might have in that poster's judgment.

I don't want to operate a discussion forum. I wouldn't like that job at all. I prefer just posting on one that is more or less aligned with my political point of view. I'm a Democrat, so DU is my choice.

Calling our sitting Democratic President a "piece of shit used car salesman" steps way beyond the "flying off the handle" level of discourse. I won't listen to such things, and I don't have to. Again, I don't run a discussion forum. If I did, such a thing wouldn't stand in the first place.

So, one poster has declared that he is leaving DU. My response is simple. It is "Seeya." I'll still be here, and I haven't been reading that poster's posts anyhow. I ignore them, the old fashioned way, by simply not clicking on them.

[Texasgal]

140. I stopped when he threatend

a homeless DU'er ( a Woman, BTW ) with physical harm.

His drunken rants and crappy insults towards Obama and others turned me off. I really don't care if he stays or goes. I'm not a fan.

[cwydro]

224. Did that really happen?

That's inexcusable if so.

[Texasgal]

245. Yes he did.

He's been banned and reinstated. Left and come back. Lot's of drama.... Lot's.

[cwydro]

246. I read his temper tantrum rant to Skinner.

I gotta say Skinner is a better person than I would be - to have allowed him back.

Pitt sure seems to love the drama, I can see that.

Kind of sad, actually.

[Octafish]

136. Once enough people are ''shut up'' there'll be new words.

And they all will sound the same, the single voice of a new kind of Democrat --one that believes in authority and order over justice and democracy, and that millionaires and billionaires deserve to be treated better by the law and the common folk.

[merrily]

138. I'm so with you, except that I believe that those Democrats and words already exist.

On and off DU.

[Octafish]

139. The personal attacks by the Tag Team are getting traction, dividing DU and Democrats.

What's more, lots of folks from other liberal, progressive and democratic web sites don't like DU the same way they used to. And that's a real shame, evidence of what the asshat and emoticon brigade have accomplished.

They've been on my case since I mentioned that many of them on DU were using the same screen name they used at the Amazing Randi's J-REF Forum six or seven years ago. A few of them still use them, but most have "become" other handles, the douchebags.

[arcane1]

143. Any idea what's causing all of this, suddenly?

The OP seems to come out of nowhere. I remember the event, but why is it coming up now, and creating such a feeding frenzy?

[grasswire]

184. good question

A sadist was bored, apparently.

[arcane1]

188. But not bored enough to stick around and partricipate in the thread.

This has been one of the more... interesting July's in my DU experience.

[geek tragedy]

101. "disgusting sadists" you have a very low opinion of those who do not embrace

a certain poster who, ironically, was banned in the past for threats of physical violence against another DUer and who repeatedly calls people names like "fuckwit" and "cretin."

Does your entire moral system revolve around whether people profess admiration and loyalty to truthout.org writers?

Personally, I think those who call their fellow DUers "disgusting sadists" are not contributing to a good atmosphere here.

[MineralMan]

109. When I saw that, I wondered, "Is that poster talking about me?"

I often disagree with that poster. So, perhaps I'm one of those "disgusting sadists," in the poster's mind. I'm not a big fan of name-calling on discussion forums.

[geek tragedy]

111. apparently, "disgusting sadists" doesn't include

people who threaten physical violence against other DUers, so I'm not sure what the criteria for that category are.

[MineralMan]

112. I'm not sure, either.

Grief about someone leaving might be prompting some unkind words about other DUers, I guess.

I'm sure Mr. Pitt will still be posting on other websites. Not websites I visit, but I doubt he's leaving political commentary behind, somehow.

[geek tragedy]

113. this is not his first GBCW. He'll be back. nt

[MineralMan]

114. OK. I've been skipping his threads, ever since the POSUCS

thing. If he returns, I'll just continue that practice.

[Surya Gayatri]

222. Admirable pledge: "I promise that if I leave...there won't be a GBCW post announcing it."

Would that others might take the same oath to unpretentiousness.

"Just slip out the back, Jack"..., indeed.

50 Ways to Leave Your Internet Forum:

"The problem is all inside your head", she said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover

She said it's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself, at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover
Fifty ways to leave your lover

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

Ooo slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus
Don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
Get yourself free

She said it grieves me so to see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make you smile again
I said I appreciate that and would you please explain
About the fifty ways

She said why don't we both just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning you'll begin to see the light
And then she kissed me and I realized she probably was right
There must be fifty ways to leave your lover
Fifty ways to leave your lover

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Oh you hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free

Slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
You just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee

[merrily]

74. Jury results.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An odd post and the resulting thread is odd, but leave it alone.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see this as a call out. Am I missing something?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.

Seriously?

[muriel_volestrangler]

93. Was there an explanation given by the alerter?

It'd have to be a good one to hide, for me - I can't think of one, off hand. The OP reads to me like a defence of TruthOut, saying someone fed them bad information on purpose to screw them. It seems strange to bring it up after all this time, but I'm wondering if the thread starter thought this was happening with some current story too.

[merrily]

96. Not how I read the OP or this thread AT ALL. It's all attacks on Will Pitt.

Who has now left DU.

[muriel_volestrangler]

103. I can't see the OP as an attack.

The alert would have needed to explain carefully why they thought it was.

" to deceive and give the impression it was about to happen to ridicule them for not turning to be accurate"

How can that mean anything other than a suggestion that they were set up?

[merrily]

105. Sorry. Right now, I am grieving Will's departure.

[muriel_volestrangler]

107. I expect he'll be back sometime

It's not at all clear that it's anything in this thread that made him decide to post his thread. He has had many arguments with DUers, and DU, over the years. Is there anything else he'd been involved in recently?

[merrily]

124. You hold a minority opinion about this thread's not being the reason for his departure.

This thread is linked in several posts on his departure thread as being the reason. That's how I found this thread in the first instance.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027015044

[muriel_volestrangler]

145. It might be this thread, but I think people are guessing

I don't think he's so petty he'd leave over this thread. The people saying snarky things are people who've done it many times before, and he didn't leave because of them. He seems to be saying something about DU in general, but won't say what.

Meh. It'll sort itself out.

[markpkessinger]

156. +1 n/t

[Goblinmonger]

159. Are you forgetting the attacks on those of us that didn't believe the 24 business hour bullshit?

Because those were pretty damn bad. Let's not pretend Will and his fans were innocent in their defense of Leopold who was a questionable journalist before the 24-business-hour debacle.

And Will's left before. And been made to leave before. And he keeps coming back. Or not. Whatevs.

[merrily]

160. Am I forgetting something that happened years before I joined?

I don't know how to answer that.

Isn't this thread all attacks on Will? Cause that was the only issue muriel and I were discussing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

219. No, I was discussing *the OP* with you, not the thread as a whole

because someone alerted *on the OP*.

I hadn't thought to look to see if you were on DU when this happened. Well, it was quite a big thing, and I would say the consensus was that Jason Leopold was lying through his ass, and Pitt was defending him as his associate, but was pretty nasty to many people. And the OP thinks Leopold, and thus TruthOut and Pitt with him, was set up. Personally, I don't think they were a big enough operation for the level of sources they were claiming to have bothered doing such a thing. Leopold's reporting has been controversial at various places he's worked, and I think he just guessed what would happen, claimed to have solid sources, and then turned out to be wrong - and then the ridiculous "24 business hours" claim was made, and people started laughing.

[hifiguy]

168. indeed.

And he's one of DU's best.

I quietly left for a year because I got sick to death of being alert-stalked and harassed by the word/idea police but last summer I just said fuck it. There are too many people here I like and respect, and the assholes are NOT gonna run me off.

Come back soon, Will.

[merrily]

208. He has had 3 books published and has been on the NYT Best Seller List.

How many DUers write that well? Or even try to?

Not that someone has to in order to make a contribution, but having that voice here was enjoyable. Whether he will be back or not remains to be seen. However long he is gone, DU will be considerably less for his absence.

[delrem]

223. Picked up _The Greatest Sedition is Silence_ a couple months ago.

Browsing a used book store here in Vancouver. The copy had been marked up with underscores and annotations, making for an even better read.
Easy to understand why corporatists don't like William Rivers Pitt.

[bluedigger]

84. You usually are a high quality poster here.

In fact, if anything, you over research and explain your position. This cryptic figure it out for yourself drive-by really doesn't seem like your work at all.

[geek tragedy]

87. I think this person was trying to defend "24 business hours" nt

[bluedigger]

88. From what?

If I'm going to walk into a shitstorm, I'd just like to know which way the wind is blowing.

[geek tragedy]

94. I have no idea why anyone with an ounce of sympathy for that poster

would ever bring that phrase up. Or mention anything related to that entire fiasco.

[bluedigger]

104. Well, I'm glad you're on the inside.

I can't even figure out whether "that poster" you refer to is the OP or the GBCW one. I'll just stay outside and perpetually confused, I guess. It's all old shit anyways.

[geek tragedy]

110. best to avoid names to avoid getting hides for callouts

Long story short, back in 2006 a couple of truthout.org reporters--including one who still posts here--posted on a Friday that Karl Rove had been indicted and that he had been given "24 hours to get his affairs in order."

But, then, after 24 hours had passed, and Karl Rove was still living life in his normal and evil manner, with no sign of an indictment, then the spin--pushed at DU by a certain DUer, was that "in point of fact, those 24 hours are "business hours," i.e. starting on Monday.

In other words, presumably, 3 working days starting on Monday of the following week. If one presumes 8 hours in a working day. As if any legal notice anywhere were denominated in business hours, not business days or simply hours (e.g. 72 hours).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027013022#post10

http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/62791:karl-rove-indicted-on-charges-of-perjury-lying-to-investigators

As ludicrous as it seems, a lot of people actually bought the "24 business hours" line--against what should have been their better judgment.

But some began to express skepticism and disbelief over the weekend. Including Skinner, the owner of Democraticunderground.com. Which induced a pretty epic temper tantrum accusing the site owner of being "no better than the cretins who have taken over your site." (post was deleted).

Of course, as history has revealed, Karl Rove was never indicted, and the truthout.org story was a complete hoax.

There's never been any explanation as to who the source behind the hoax was or why the hoax was promoted so vigorously.

But those who were skeptical and called bullshit have never been forgiven for disbelieving the bullshit.

[PeaceNikki]

115. Good summary. There were also awful attacks on anyone who DARED to question to story.

24 business hours. heh.

[geek tragedy]

116. including a vicious attack on Skinner himself! nt

[PeaceNikki]

119. Yup, like I posted in the other thread:

Pitt and Truthout are reporters and should be able to deal with it. Especially after the way he and his sycophants treated any and everyone who was suspicious at the time.

There are assholes on DU who keep dossiers on people they dislike and constantly drudge up stupid old shit about a disagreement they had 2, 4, 8, 10 years ago. To those stalky McStalkers:

[alcibiades_mystery]

118. "There's never been any explanation..." THAT'S a big reason that "24 business hours" lives on

There never was any explanation. The story and its subsequent defenses were stated with a kind of religious certainty. When it all fizzled, there was no explanation. Multiple sources, they said. Well, what about that? Fact checked to death, they said. And so? There was never an explanation. There was never a formal accounting. There was never an eloquent OP with clever epigrams that set out the circumstances of the story. It was sloughed off and abandoned.

To offer such certitude, to pile up defenses and insults, to stake one's whole then-growing reputation on something, then to retreat into a haze? And gab it up as if nothing happened?

Yes, that's why 24 business hours remains with those of us who saw it unfold.

[geek tragedy]

123. accountabilty is for politicians, not writers nt

[merrily]

132. Politicians are accountable? Who can tell?

[geek tragedy]

134. they're supposed to be, according to writers, nt

[merrily]

135. Ah, if only things worked in reality as well as they should in theory.

[geek tragedy]

137. indeed. nt

[Hissyspit]

179. I saw it unfold.

Was never sure it was true, had plenty of doubt, never stated I thought it was true, was sorry it wasn't true.

But I sure don't take pleasure in it, or post ROFLs about it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

182. Well

I thought it was funny at the time and I still think it's a bit funny, primarily because it was never explained.

The story was ludicrous. The defenses of it were ridiculous. The parsing of "24 business hours" was easily one of the greatest exhibitions of desire informing invention that this board has ever seen.

As I noted upthread, the craziness and weird behavior behind "Fitzmas" was more a symptom of our inability to politically harm Rove than anything else. It seems almost quaint now.

In any case, if you live in public, you're going to publicly step in your own shit from time to time, and people are gonna remember it and goof on it. That's life. I don't know why the OP brought this up again, but it's part of the history of this site.

[stevenleser]

90. That was my contention at the time. A deliberate disinformation job. I still wonder...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_steven_l_060515_karl_rove_indictment.htm

Pitt and Leopold should have come clean on everything and that includes their source. They should have burned the source or explained why they didn't burn him/her. Or they should have apologized and explained why they missed it. Even if they had said it was a guess and they shouldn't have done that. Whatever it was.

[DanTex]

152. Out of curiosity, was there any aftermath to this?

This is the first time I'm reading about all this. Did Leopold ever explain what he thought went wrong? Was there any "sorry I messed up" follow-up or anything like that?

[stevenleser]

175. Nothing, which I think made it worse. Everyone's imagination was allowed to run wild.

I told Pitt several times he and Leopold should burn their source. They were reluctant to do so, which made one wonder whether there was one.

I tend to think there was one, but something about the situation made Pitt and Leopold reluctant to out that person.

[DanTex]

228. I'm not sure how the journalistic ethics surrounding burning sources work.

But at least something should have been done. Some kind of mea culpa. Maybe explain that the sources got it wrong, or the sources were right but something changed at the last minute, or there was some kind of miscommunication.

BTW, I have a lot of respect for professional journalists like you and Pitt who post here under your real names. I disagree with Pitt about some things, but I hope he comes back.

[stevenleser]

229. Well, IMHO, if a source lies, they get burned. In practice, I would have to know for sure that they

lied. I would go to jail or take the heat otherwise.

I wonder if that is what happened here, that Pitt and/or Leopold think the source lied but aren't sure. Then you're fucked, because I wouldn't burn the source then either. But I would at least say, look, we had a source that we thought was iron-clad but that source turned out to be wrong.

You have to say something.

[LanternWaste]

100. I hope one of my inaccuracies from seven years ago is brought up when I get home tonight...

I hope one of my inaccuracies from seven or eight years ago is brought up when I get home tonight... because it's so very, very relevant to the here and now and is absolutely germane to the collective person I am this afternoon. Without question.

[Starry Messenger]

102. I love the oldies too.

Oh--is this about the NYT Hillary fail? http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2015/07/27/a-clinton-story-fraught-with-inaccuracies-how-it-happened-and-what-next/

Somehow I don't think this thread went the way you thought it would go. Both news sources thoroughly discredited themselves in lunging after vaporware. Journalists are supposed to vet their sources very very carefully. The impulse to "get the story" must be tempered by a concern for credibility.

[Marrah_G]

120. Shitty crappy thing to post.

off to ignore you and your nastiness go.

Stalkers suck.

[shanti]

242. exactly

AND all of his friends. *plonk* this thread makes them very easy to find.

[DrDan]

121. joined in 2008 - so predictable - this was the turning point around here

Last edited Mon Jul 27, 2015, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

[closeupready]

126. Would not be unprecedented. I still have my copy of this:

[oberliner]

130. I wonder if they could have carried Missouri

And if that ticket could have pulled off the win.

[closeupready]

133. It's a good question - Gephardt was better-known at the time

than Edwards, given his lengthy career.

[theboss]

128. Those were glorious times

When Karl Rove could control the weather, and we were determined to bring him down.

I'm fairly certain I never believed it for a second, but I could be wrong.

[ibegurpard]

146. what the hell is this shit?

From almost ten years ago?

[City Lights]

147. It's called bullying. nt

[HughBeaumont]

151. Stalkerati dickishness at it's most petty.

Bad form.

[hifiguy]

171. +1 nt

[LondonReign2]

148. Hillary supporters showing their true colors again in this thread

[oberliner]

149. Pretty sure the person who runs this site is a Hillary supporter

Not sure what you imagine the true colors to be.

[LondonReign2]

194. Sure you do

[Cha]

196. Skinner is a Hillary Supporter and his colors are Red White and Blue. I always thought the OP

was not a Hillary supporter.

I have no idea why he posted this.. but from reading the thread it's a surprise to his usual readers.

[markpkessinger]

154. Despicable OP . . .

. . . beyond despicable, really.

[Hissyspit]

164. Yep.

[leftstreet]

174. +1

[MelissaB]

192. Agreed!

I can't believe this OP wasn't hidden.

[melman]

199. The OP is clearly meant as a defense of the poster in question

I don't get why so may people are missing that.

[oberliner]

200. Beyond despicable?

In what respect, Charlie?

[markpkessinger]

212. It amounts to shit-stirring . . .

. . . of shit that is nearly a decade old.

[JEB]

157. What's the f'ing deal?

Do you despise Will that much or luv Rove that much? Either way....

[madinmaryland]

158. This is really odd. A "post-and"run" from a DU'er who has never been this way...

He always has very well reasoned posts and this seems way out of line from what he normally posts about.

[Hekate]

161. Why this? Why now?

[NuclearDem]

162. Wow...this thread is a fucking disaster.

Not one of our better moments.

[HughBeaumont]

191. I concur. This is high school shit.

[demmiblue]

163. Some of y'all are fecking pathetic.

Same people over and over and over again in the countless horizontal subthreads (though there are a few surprises).

What makes DU suck? Well, there you go. I don't even want to view this thread when I am not logged in (stop reloading, iPad!).

[RiverLover]

165. Toxic.

And to top it off, incredibly poor grammar. No wonder he's leaving.

[sellitman]

173. This mugging is vile and so Republican like

I don't blame Will for leaving.

DU is weaker and less attractive thank to the efforts of a few.

How very sad.

[City Lights]

187. I really miss Unrec.

to you.

[grasswire]

190. +1000

Didn't even have the guts to defend or explain the OP.

[WillyT]

204. Yep... And Look At All The Call-Outs In This Thread... Unbelievable...

Thought that was against some sort of rule here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

220. No, there is no rule about calling people out on DU3

There was a rule about it on DU2, but there's nothing now. It's up to juries to decide if a post is 'disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate'.

People may take the past behaviour of the person 'called out' into account, of course.

[suffragette]

215. What is going on?

Haven't been on DU much lately and pop on, then see this toxic déjà vu.

[Le Taz Hot]

197. Well my Ignore List just grew by 1

Asshole thing to do.

[WillyT]

201. Oh Look... Our First Pre-Grave Dancing Thread !!!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

202. Meh...I wonder whatever happened to bobolink...? nt

[joshcryer]

205. WTF prompted this?

[akbacchus_BC]

209. I think some people dislike Will Pitt and they take every opportunity to attack him.

Same shit that the republicans do to President Obama.

[joshcryer]

210. So it was random?

As far as people attacking Obama he gets attacked here on a near daily basis.

[akbacchus_BC]

211. No, I did not say that. I was pissed at Mr. Pitt for calling the fucking President of the US, a used

car salesman. Have no idea why he was pissed. But in the end, who wins?

To be honest with you, President Obama is the best ever, and who ever wants to attack him, may they have a period of ecstasy! The critics will never be a President, so who wins?

[akbacchus_BC]

206. You are disgusting. You really bringing this shit up to

discredit William Pitt? How low can you get. Which book have you published, please remind me!

You are eating one of your one no wonder we are in the state we are! Pitt perhaps made a mistake but folks like you are going to cruicify him for the rest of his life. Why the fuck you all do not go after Bush for invading Iraq, a country that the US fucked up, hence ISIS!

[grasswire]

226. that's true

Why the haters here don't spend their energy hating on Republicans is beyond me.

There are truly evil people in American political life. They are worth targeting.

So why the continued hateful attacks here on a DEMOCRAT. Especially an accomplished one?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[yodermon]

225. Who was Jason' source? Do we know? I found that whole episode fascinating.

would love to know who his source was after all these years.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

227. ...

[raouldukelives]

230. And people still wonder why our circle is shrinking?

Thanks to the best efforts of those only capable of using the language of hate and sarcasm and even then mostly through emoji.

It'd be funnier if it wasn't in the end so transparently pathetic and just left me feeling hollow and sorry for them.

[donheld]

232. Some people are just assholes

William Pitt is not one of those people.

Go on, hit that alert button. I'm being rude, but I'm being accurate.

[rosesaylavee]

248. Hey --- your rock is missing you.