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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFrigid offices, freezing women, oblivious men: An air-conditioning investigation
Last edited Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)
One of the women where I work shares her cubicle with an air exchanger unit. She's so cold that she wears a bathrobe.
Frigid offices, freezing women, oblivious men: An air-conditioning investigation
By Petula Dvorak July 23
Petula.Dvorak@washpost.com
@petulad
You can spot them. The frozen ones who come outside at lunch like sun-seeking turtles, cardigans balled up next to them, bare shoulders defrosting in the noon sunlight, no matter how wilting it is outdoors.
Every single woman I talked to in downtown Washington on a hot, humid July afternoon was thawing out.
I. Am. Fuh-reezing. Feel my hand Im still cold, said Ruth Marshall, 64, who was seated on a park bench, face to the sky. And, yes, her hand felt like a cold steak.
I have to come out here for 30 minutes at a time just to warm up, said Marshall, the director of administration at a construction firm where the air conditioning is set to Arctic.
Its the time of year desperate women rely on cardigans, pashminas and space heaters to make it through the workweek in their frigid offices. And their male colleagues barely notice.
{Take our poll: Is your office too cold?}
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)with a space heater, and the one next to her (also Female) wants it so cold that I occasionally wear a sweater - and this is Florida.
Bryant
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Say that 'women dress for the season' but men are wearing the same suits all year round, and then suggest that they could bump up the thermometer and men could wear lighter outfits.
But
I walk around nude at 68-70 degrees. I couldn't be comfortable in a hotter office in any sort of outfit. Heck, even my female housemate thinks the house it too hot if it hits 73.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)It's one of the few realms where women have it better: they don't look like clones at work, unless it's by choice
Formal wear too.
hatrack
(59,596 posts)Professional wear for men hasn't changed much since the stand-up collar and ascot went away in, what,1935?
Disclosure - if there's an opposite of a clothes horse, I'm it.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Hi Hatrack!
Telcontar
(660 posts)Wore it all of one time.
Hmm, maybe I can be a trend setter
Igel
(35,383 posts)Less time fretting over what to wear, concerned that I'm not stylish enough or will be judged because of my fashion sense. I don't go to work to be a clothes horse or be admired for how I look. The workplace has to look professional--not that I much care, but others do--and so I try to look professional.
Then there are other issues: If appearance is that important, then it's okay to comment on, say, HRC's clothing. She's not a clone, so her choices reflect the person we'd be voting for. That's condemned, and properly so, but it's part and parcel dressing not just to look professional but stylish. I'd point out that where I work we had one man who really had trouble navigating his environment, he was so overweight. He was good at what he did, however, and nobody cared. He wore the "uniform" that men wear and did his job. We have a woman who is less overweight by far than he was, but how she dresses is considered part of her performance by clients and even peers.
If clothing matters, then it matters. If it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. To not look not so much as "clone" but to have a restricted set of style choices means some will be negatively judged for how they dress, but that's ultimately how they look--hair, make-up, dress, and even weight. Do that a time or two, and the word is "sexist" if they're women.
As for the OP, the more skin you show the less competent you're seen to be. More skin = more sexual, more emotional, more in need of being "satisfied" through intercourse and more in need of being sheltered and having decisions made for you. At least if you're being judged by an American from age 19-60 something. If DU is going to say that "interpretation is all, intent is nothing" as in many posts, then the choice of clothing for professional women is clear. Sadly.
When I wore a suit to work, the only thing I had to worry about was not wearing the same tie two days in a row. Even someone as ignorant of and indifferent to fashion as me could remember that much.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)For most professional women, wearing a short-ish skirt is de rigueur.
If it's 80 outside, women should be allowed to dress like it's 80 outside.
drm604
(16,230 posts)Some offices require men to wear suits, or at least it will hurt you professionally if you don't. I've fortunately never been in that situation, but I have worked where long sleeves and a tie were expected.
Sanity Claws
(21,862 posts)When you are home and walking around, doing chores, etc., the activities keep you warm. Office workers confined to a desk are not engaged in activities that keep them warm.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Myself, anything over 72 degrees unless I'm sitting completely still doing nothing, and there will be puddles of sweat, and that's wearing shorts and a very loose t-shirt.
That may sound like hyperbole but it is not.
The reality is that one can dress up for 'cool', one can not dress down much for 'hot' (at least, I can not).
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I'm a woman, but tend to run hot. The other women I work with complained so loudly about being cold that our boss bought them all space heaters in our tiny office with only cubicles. Why they all think the heat doesn't travel I'll never know. They run those things in the winter constantly and the rest of us sweat and suffer. But the 3 women that run cold are toasty in their short skirts with bare legs and bare feet in flats and heater running full blast.
Honestly, it's one of the things that makes me look for another job. I'm uncomfortable constantly. I can't take anymore clothes off without being indecent (and we are lucky to have a fairly relaxed dress code).
I told one of the women - who is a friend of mine so I felt comfortable telling her - that she can always put a sweater on, but I cannot take my short sleeved blouse off. She whined about feeling 'cooped up' in a thick sweater.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I don't have the option of dressing down sadly.
Warpy
(111,407 posts)and heavy rubber underwear that pinched and poked everything into conventional places.
Now, it's a problem. In the interest of lowering corporate utility costs, men are going to have to rediscover the summer suit. Air conditioning an office 30 degrees below the ambient temperature is just not something that is sustainable.
I don't know why coporations are so rigidly conformist. Even the military has been more adaptable.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Warpy
(111,407 posts)I do sympathize, really. Something has to change, the rigid conformity has to break down.
All I can think of are the English people in their hot woolens trying to look dignified in Africa and India during their Empire instead of adopting less formal and more appropriate dress. No wonder they lived on gin.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Pulling off a 100M dash in...
Wait, I haven't timed myself in a long while.
I think, I have a new project.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The Turtle in his costume:
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)a fabric option! I've seen it in blue, pink, green, tan--a wide variety of fabrics and colors. It's a weird fabric, because it's kind of wrinkled anyway, so it doesn't show creases as terribly as some other fabrics.
It actually makes a great deal of sense in summer, or it did when people used to wear clothing! Nowadays, everyone uses sunblock and lets it all hang out...!
It might be making a revival...in bolder colors, too...
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I'd probably go navy and white.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Retrograde
(10,170 posts)It seems to be an eastern thing: I just got back from western New York where stores and restaurants seem to want to show that they have that new-fangled air-con-dee-shun-ning by freezing their patrons. I had to go get a sweater at one place. (They make up for it in winter, by overheating).
This has been a problem as long as I can remember. And since producing all the power that's needed to run those air-conditioners contributes to climate change with its hotter summers the demand for air conditioning keeps going up.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)If hot, there is NOTHING you can do to really cool down at a desk. Therefore, it's better to err on the side of too cool than hot.
maveric
(16,446 posts)I can't strip down naked at work to avoid stuffy, sweatty air.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and the air-conditioning is always too cold.
NutmegYankee
(16,204 posts)But others differ. I start to sweat at 75F and won't stop when sitting.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,204 posts)In realty, people just have different body temperatures. Mine stays right around 97.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i cannot comment, because my work attire is generally a jacket, shirt and pants, not sundresses and sandals but i am still cold.
SolutionisSolidarity
(606 posts)Reduced surface area per volume means more heat retention.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)There needs to be a better balance.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Men are often required to wear pants and sometimes a long sleeve dress shirt.
Meanwhile I've worked with women who can wear a dress and sandals. If they are cold, I suppose they could always wear a dress and closed toe shoes like the men are required to.
Telcontar
(660 posts)Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)We have a guy in my small office building who always comes to work in shorts, and he still cranks up the AC for everyone. He admits that the AC at the office still isn't cold enough for him - he keeps it 65 or less at his house! My assistant and I call him Mr. Man-O-Pause, and we turn the AC back to a fairly reasonable level and, when that isn't enough, close our doors and open a window to the outside for a while.
In one of my former work places, a recently redone historic building, the AC was always cranked uncomfortably high. I just climbed onto my desk with tape and copier paper, opened the vent, and mostly sealed it off. Much better!
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)MindPilot
(12,693 posts)85 degrees outside and I'm wearing a hoodie at my desk. The article is gender-baiting but I think it is just a majority of people have something that makes them like cold.
I'm one of those who thinks paradise is Vegas in August.
randome
(34,845 posts)Same for first getting into my car at the end of the day. I relish that wave of warmth. For a while, anyways.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]
mythology
(9,527 posts)Look like I just took a shower. I leave puddles.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Thus, I could never live in the Southeast US.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i've ever worked in that has air conditioning. it is always too high. if i am near a vent, it has to be closed.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)during this pleasant summer weather, most of them are showing more skin than they are covering, and no stockings or hose. Thus, they are dressed fine for outside, but in the office they are underdressed. Further, it's not exactly professional to dress like that.
Thus, you know, grow up and realize when you work for a living, there's a dress code.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)in addition to slacks at work...and i am still cold. all women don't where scanty clothes, even in the summer.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)so the a/c freezes out the men
irisblue
(33,041 posts)It was very rare it was too cool for me.
Cher
csziggy
(34,139 posts)It was worse when I was working outside most of the time and drenched with sweat - I'd get so chilled I'd started shivering and sneezing from the nearly 30 degree difference! A lot of the seminars I go to recommend bringing a sweater so the participants don't get too cold.
Working outside in the winter I could layer my clothes so I could peel off some as it warmed up during the day or when I went into a heated place. But even then they tend to over heat the stores and offices - the places that are chilled to 68 in the summer would be heated to 78 in the winter.
At home I set my thermostat higher in temperature (around 76-78; I'd set it to 82 but then the humidity gets too high) in the summer partly to reduce the thermal shock of the change in temps when I come inside and partly to keep my electric bills to a reasonable level. In the winter the temperatures are set lower, but not as low as I'd like - below 72 I get too cold when I am not actively working or wrapped up in too many layer to function.
maxsolomon
(33,440 posts)Because we're in an old building in Seattle, the land that AC forgot. From the perspective of the West Coast, you are all insane and are killing the planet. Turn the temperature on your AC systems up to 75 or 76.
If it's windy, all the surfaces get cold and its freezing in here, but our office is generally in the upper 70s thanks to everyone's computers, task lights, and monitors. If it tops 80 outside, it's 80 inside. If it tops 90, well, you get the idea. I have a fan pointed at my head.
We are obviously more energy-efficient, but we do have women that run space heaters. I often encourage them to try wearing socks for energy-free warmth.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)crap like this
There could actually be something to her rather vague thesis, but she surely doesn't make a strong case,
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Depending on the building, of course. I think building managers keep things at a uniform temperature because it's more cost-effective than heating or cooling each room or floor separately.
Hot air rises, so the top floors will always be warmer. In addition, computer equipment needs to be kept cool to function properly.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Brrrrrr!
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Women wear skirts, blouses, and open-toed shoes.
Men wear suits with ties and jackets and slacks.
Which is hotter to wear?
A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)In my office men and women basically dress the same - slacks, collared shirts, and closed toe shoes. The disparity still exists. I actually wear gloves because my fingers get too cold to type (but of course I make a ton of mistakes because it's hard to type with gloves on). Many of the men complain about how hot it is and many of the women complain about how cold it is. Strange.
newblewtoo
(667 posts)a cube farm in a building that had been renovated with air. Management was proud as a new papa, loved to brag on it, always wanted it set on artic. The thermo sensors on the wall were under lock and key. The solution? I used the ice pack from my lunch bag. It worked like a charm and no one in mgmt. ever caught on. I felt bad for my cube mates when I left although one of the ladies had pretty much caught on to my trick.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)And every winter thinks it's too cold if the thermostat is set BELOW 80°?
TheKentuckian
(25,034 posts)I'm talking furnace pegged, oven on, kerosene heater. Whatever he could.
Me, I prefer it cool always.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)That is, keep the core of the building at arctic temps, and blow the same arctic air on those oven-like sheets of glass on the outer skin. Then it will just "even out" everywhere. Only that never works. The core remains at arctic temps while the offices with windows remain hot. How much energy is being lost by this ineffective method?
My brother was telling me of a system invented to be not only more efficient but to have even temps over entire floors, using laminar-flow principles. It required having a raised floor and then periodic placement of vertical pillars where the cold air would be released. The drawback was that it didn't work with cubicles and separate offices. I would think it could still work with cubes and offices if you put a pillar in every cube and office. That would certainly be better than having to wear winter clothing in August.
This magazine has an article on two alternative forms of cooling (radiant chilling and chilled beams) that could work better, even in humid environments like here in Houston It starts on page 51 (I couldn't link directly to those pages due to their method for making the issue available.)
Net Zero Buildings - March 2015
Cleita
(75,480 posts)through menopause used to turn down the air conditioning to sixty degrees freezing out the younger women in the office. We didn't have to go to those extremes to get warm though. We layered on winter clothes instead. I think I have hated air conditioning to this day on account of this experience.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I've had the horror of experiencing those symptoms recently. God, I feel for them.
Just you wait
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I was in my thirties. We didn't complain. Just put our woollies on but it really made me hate air conditioning. I seldom use it even in my car except on the hottest days.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I found cold ac really didn't help that much.
A fan helps (still does because I'm still dealing with them.)
I'm your age backwards lol, and if you have any hints as to how to deal - feel free to share!
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I couldn't help my step daughter because her symptoms and experience were different than mine. The best thing is looking forward to when it's done and you no longer have to deal with the paraphernalia, hormonal mood swings and cramps your monthly delivered to you.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I'm very happy about that.
Plus, I suffered the tortures of the damned during my young years with awful cramps...pure misery.
Gosh, not having to deal with that pain is worth the year of hot flashes. And the mood swings.
I'm actually a different person now.
Can you imagine if men had periods?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I think the same thing would apply to period, they would have hysterectomies right after that first child.
MerryBlooms
(11,774 posts)I can't function without a fan these days.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...is it really that hard of a concept to grasp? It's something I learned to do by age 20.
Whatever climate one lives in, temperatures vary by indoors vs. outdoors, and also by time of day.
In cold climates in the winter, you won't want to wear your heavy sweater all day indoors or you'll collapse of heat stroke, since most places are heated to a nice cozy temperature. So have a shirt or top under the sweater so you can take the sweater off indoors.
In hot climates in the summer, you'll want to bring a wrap of some sort to your indoor destinations, since they are often chilly compared to the temperatures outside.
In most climates, it is substantially cooler in the morning and in the evening than it is a midday. So , if you will be outside at different times of day, have layers.
Trying to frame this as "poor women" is silly. One could as easily frame it as "oh, those poor men" who have to wear suits with their dress shirts and suit jackets and long pants even on the hottest days of the year, thus being too hot anytime they are outside. They suffer because their rigid dress codes don't allow them the privilege of dressing for the weather -- and their female colleagues barely notice.
The article, while a bit tongue in cheek, did bring up an issue that everyone in the workplace deals with: how to get an ideal office temperature in a big building, where there are lots of different people with different ideas of what the ideal temperature is, and where there is rarely individual control over it.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)68°± 2° is what's maintained for consistent measuring of machined parts.
The three chubby guys there (including me) deal with it fine. The one lean guy and the only woman (about 130 and 120 lbs, respectively) wear lots of layers and struggle with staying warm.
The woman would wear a fur hat if they let her!
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,695 posts)By Petula Dvorak July 24 at 1:34 PM
Petula.Dvorak@washpost.com
@petulad
The office air-conditioning debate is a hot one. ... Arctic A/C is the Manspreading of Summer 15. People had a lot to say on the subject after I wrote Thursday about the gender divide, thermostat edition.
After an exhaustive investigation (talking to people outside at lunch, plus years of listening to my female co-workers complain about the frigid air at The Post), I laid out the state of things: Women are shivering in their offices all summer. Their suit-wearing male colleagues are fine.
{Frigid offices, freezing women, oblivious men}
I think I heard from every man in America who said he was cold at work, too. #NotAllMen.
And there was a bunch of guys eager to blame women of a certain age for the whole phenomenon: ... While I was in a hospital a few years ago I asked a nurse why it was so cold. I expected a medical answer, like promoting healing or controlling germs, wrote one reader. She said, The thermostats are controlled by fat, menopausal women!
treestar
(82,383 posts)I'm female but have always been more bothered by heat than cold.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)I think part of it is that men, in general, are much more adverse to wearing seasonal clothing. There is no desire to wear feather weight cloth that bares more skin.
Need shirt, find shirt, shirt dead.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I can keep my lunch in the plenum space with the cables.
I DO NOT MIND being refrigerated. I know how to put on more clothes.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'm a woman. It's always too warm at work, and at home during the summer. During the winter, I can be perfectly content in COLD temps; I won't even realize how cold it is until my fingers get numb and stiff.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)Is this what the Washington Post considers to be hard-hitting journalism these days? I feel fortunate to have lived through its glory days way back when.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Some wear khakis and a polo, but if they're meeting with the customer they're wearing a suit as that's what is expected of them.
I prefer to just bring a cardigan with me, since at least I'm not wearing a freaking suit every day. I typically wear a pencil skirt, t-shirt or nicer blouse and a cardigan. I have quite a collection of cardigans. Ha.
Sedona
(3,769 posts)Now the thermostat is set five degrees higher and the rest of us are sweating it out at nearly 80 degrees.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)That's why they feel the cold faster even though their body-temperature is normal.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I sympathize with folks who find an office too cold. I've worked in computer rooms that were downright frigid in order to keep the machines cool.
The solution is easier to solve on an individual level than to elevate it to a gender issue. As a bicyclist friend of mine said, it's never too hot/rainy/cold/windy. It is always about wearing the appropriate attire given the environmental conditions.
Living in the far north, my office doesn't have any cooling AC. In order to save on heating oil, I keep the thermostat set low-ish, and in the summer, when it is hot and muggy, we wear short sleeves and lighter colors. Staying warm is much easier than trying to cool off while too hot.
If it is too cold, wear more clothes. But if it is too hot, there's not much you can do to reduce the discomfort at an office.