Sandra Bland and the police stop

[justiceischeap]

I've been reading a lot of different comments about how if only Sandra Bland had been cooperative or submissive or put out her cigarette or didn't answer the question the cop asked her truthfully, all would be well. Basically, the victim is at fault for the cops actions (which have been stated as being problematic by his superiors on numerous occasions on the news). Here's the thing... no one seems to be thinking of it from a person of colors point of view. I'm not a person of color, so I can't truly understand what it's like to see the lights of a cop car behind me but I can read and empathize and from what I've read over the years, being stopped while black (or Latino) is not the same as being stopped while white or asian. Yes, I'm sure any one of you can pull out examples of cops behaving incorrectly when it comes to people that aren't black but I can pull out ten times more examples of it happening to people of color.

Imagine a world where you're driving around and you are suspect just because you're white. That there's an unspoken "rule" in law enforcement that all white people are criminals (or all Asians are illegal immigrants). Imagine that your traffic stop experience is going to be handled with more hostility and less respect just because of the color of your skin. There are enough members on DU of color that we've read about their experiences and the feelings being pulled over evoke. It's a frightening situation where it may be just a tense one for white people. Add fear on top of tension and you may very well see how easy it would be to be agitated--whether or not the stop is lawful because guaranteed for a lot of people of color, there are stops that aren't lawful. How often, as a white person, can you claim you've been pulled over because you fit the "description?" Or because you were driving around in a nice car the cop thought you shouldn't be in because people of color can't afford nice cars?

It's easy to say from my position of white "superiority" how people of color should act during traffic stops or police encounters but I think we've seen enough footage lately that it doesn't matter how people of color act, they're more likely to get the very short end of the stick than I am. So I'm not going to judge Bland's behavior during the stop because as white person I don't have the same life experiences someone working as an activist for #BlackLivesMatter would have and I'm going to defer to the opinion of people of color on their experiences with law enforcement because any thinking, intelligent human being should know at this point that their experience is always going to be different than mine.

[yeoman6987]

1. The cigarette thing is interesting

Everyone talks about second hand smoke and how dangerous it is. I mean people complain about it walking past a person smoking on their way to a store about how awful the experience is even by some here. But when a person is smoking in the car and the smoke is going into the face of the cop that is no big deal that he asked her to put it out? Seems like second hand smoke is only dangerous for who gets it.

[Brickbat]

2. Are you even for real.

[yeoman6987]

3. I guess not. I just thought second hand smoking was dangerous.

Oh well you explained it to me that I was wrong.

[Downwinder]

8. Ever smelled auto exhaust? Kill you much faster

than second hand tobacco smoke.

[Kingofalldems]

39. You're taking the cop's side?

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

I am shocked.

[Lee-Lee]

5. It's an issue for many reasons

Secondhand smoke is one- a cop on the job should have every bit as much protection from exposure as any other worker. We banned smoking in almost every other workplace long ago, so a cop wanting to minimize exposure is a valid concern.

It puts an object in their hand and causes them to make frequent movements down toward the ashtray and then up-movements very close to if they were grabbing a weapon from between the seats and raising it. Cops like your hands still and visible during a stop, and in fact if a person was moving their hands down a lot I always removed them from the vehicle out of concern for what they may have in the car.

Should the need to arrest arise the burning cigarette is a burn hazard to the officer and arrestee as well as a fire hazard.

[Fred Sanders]

45. Talk about grasping at straws and smoke! The evidence is so crystal clear now you have to blow smoke?

That is a third hand amount of logic.

[Anansi1171]

53. Whats wrong?

Are you Ok?

You seem irritated!

[Lilith Rising]

54. That is the perfect response.

[JimDandy]

55. I DID laugh out loud at that!

The authoritarians are digging deep on this one. Cops outside of DU are calling the Bland stop what it was: A bad handling of the encounter by the officer. But that poster can't acknowledge it. When the crumbly cliff edge they're hanging on to is second hand smoke, well you know they're headed for free-fall soon.

[beevul]

65. "a cop on the job should have every bit as much protection from exposure as any other worker."

Maybe the flaw is presuming that other peoples cars constitute your workplace.

And I'd say that probably applies to more than just second hand smoke.

[angryvet]

79. If the cop had said POLITELY

would you mind not blowing smoke in my face or would you mind not smoking it bothers me...it might be excusable. This was a cop on a one man trip to make this black b....h obey him. I would suggest Roid Rage cause he certainly was unhinged.

[beevul]

81. Exactly. N/T

[brush]

76. Cop apologist alert! nt

[MH1]

78. But there was no reason to arrest at that point.

The stop should have been over. Instead the cop continued it and deliberately antagonized her and escalated.

If the stop had really been about failing to use a turn signal, he would have given a warning ticket and sent her on her way. He wouldn't have had enough time to talk to her to bother asking her to put out the cig.

Obviously a turn signal is not what it was about.

[Mnpaul]

82. But there was reason to investigate further

When the cop ran her license he saw that she had a DUI in 2014(as well as several other offenses). Her actions may have caused him to suspect that she was under the influence. She also ran a stop sign right in front of him, another sign of DUI. When the officer is running her license, it looks like Bland may be attempting to hide something.

[Spirochete]

87. Well, never fear -

she won't do it again.

[justiceischeap]

10. That's what you're grasping on? The second-hand smoke?

Not that he escalated a written warning to an arrest because he asked someone to put out a cigarette? Asked. Not demanded, not told but asked. Are we to infer now that asking a question is suddenly a command from a LEO?

If so, then law enforcement needs to write rules on engagement because if the people that are being stopped don't know the rules, the playing field isn't even.

[yeoman6987]

13. From what I can see, we have looked at everything

In this case and then some. I am not out of line bringing this up. After all it has been a problem in every facet of life. Why do you think some won't rent a room in their home even if they smoke outside. It is a current discussion all over the world.

[TBF]

11. lol. Is this the latest right-wing defense?

If this is the best you've got you need to go back to the PR drawing board.

[yeoman6987]

16. Wow. That is a mighty stretch you did.

Laugh all you want. I am bringing up a scenario that is discussed EVERYWHERE in society. I don't think it is a laughing matter.

[TBF]

20. Seriously? Well if she had just put out that cigarette

none of this would have happened? You must be joking because that is just too disgusting for words. If that is what gets you murdered by the police these days we are way past wondering if we are a fascist society.

[yeoman6987]

22. That is totally your opinion without fact.

[TBF]

25. And the sky is fucking blue -

get a grip. I am not a smoker, but if you can't have a cigarette in your car or home you have instituted fascism. This is beyond the pale. Where did personal freedom go? That is usually the first argument from liberty lovers. Ah, but now there is only liberty if the police are OK with it?

[yeoman6987]

29. You obviously don't know that if you have a neighbor child in YOUR

Car, you cannot smoke in YOUR car in many places. Why is that if smoking is no big deal?

[Hortensis]

40. Remember, tho, almost all make it illegal only when children are in the car. It is legal in Texas.

This officer had a right to ASK her nicely to put her cigarette out but no right to compel it. I respect her for knowing her right in this case and standing up for it. Smoke aside, that's how citizens should react. (And, of course, the real risk to him was just a smelly uniform and hair for the rest of the day.)

[Downwinder]

42. The rights any of us give up, we give up for all.

[passiveporcupine]

71. According to Papantonio

This officer had a right to ASK her nicely to put her cigarette out but no right to compel it.

Yes, he can compel you to put out a cigarette, turn off your radio, put down your cell phone, and get out of your car. Even for a minor traffic stop.

People don't know this. I didn't know this. Apparently, neither did Sandra, or you.

This does not mean he needed to escalate this situation with an obviously upset person. He didn't follow his own protocol, according to his Captain...but he did have the right to do it. The only reason he got violent with her is that she did not obey his orders. I think, if she had known what was legally required of her, she wouldn't have resisted. But...I'm not blaming this on her. Most people DON'T KNOW THIS!

[beevul]

66. " I am bringing up a scenario that is discussed EVERYWHERE in society."

Yes, yes you are. And you're trying to apply it to the inside of someone elses private property.

Legalities aside, this is not moral or ethical.

[brush]

77. Get real! All that cop had to do was hand over the warning and be on his way

He was looking for a way to escalate the situation which is pretty apparent by the way he demanded she get out of the car just like that over a lit cigarette.

The ahole could've moved on to his next victim but he wanted to excerpt his power over a black person and over a woman. It's that simple.

It was a stop over the most miniscule traffic violation there is, a failure to signal a lane change — one that he caused by jetting up so fast behind her which caused her to move over so as not to impede a police officer speeding to "catch a criminal", which is what he should have been doing instead of racially profiling her.

I hope that bastard can't ever sleep at night again. His horrendous handling of the stop ultimately resulted in her death.

[CBGLuthier]

12. Careful you might just break your spine bending over backwards to make the cop seem reasonable

A woman is dead and you are defending a cop's right to have a smoke free work environment.

[yeoman6987]

14. Hey then nobody should expect a smoke free environment of it is no big deal

[CBGLuthier]

17. I no longer smoke but he came into her space and ordered her how to behave

Do you think his rights are greater than hers? Do you think if I am sitting in my house and you come over I can not smoke under the penalty of death. There are no laws banning smoking in your own car even if a fucking cop does not like it.

I swear to god some of you are so fucking heartless and ridiculous it makes me want to scream.

[yeoman6987]

19. It is a discussion. That's what we do here.

[TBF]

21. This is not a discussion - it's a right wing spin machine. nt

[yeoman6987]

23. Prove it.

[yeoman6987]

26. Actually most smoking bans are liberal.

I doubt highly that republicans would ban smoking. It it were up to them everyone would still be smoking so you are 100 percent wrong.

[TBF]

28. Please proceed - I love it when folks

just keep digging. What else do "them there liberals" like to do?

[yeoman6987]

30. I obviously won the argument since you can't bring anything

Into the discussion.

[TBF]

31. What argument? Your assertion that Sandra should have put out her cigarette

or accept that she would be killed is the lamest statement I have seen on DU today.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what else liberals want to ban. Go ahead, entertain us.

[yeoman6987]

35. I don't know why you are upset.

I brought up that second hand smoke is dangerous and that it has been determined by doctors to be so but you don't believe that. I didn't do the studies that you don't believe so perhaps complainto those who performed the studies might get you further then complaining to me who can't do a thing about it. I didn't ban smoking anywhere and if you are upset with smoking bans then I am definitely not the right person to express it to. Good luck though.

[TBF]

36. Spin, spin, spin and avoid the substance.

Militarization of police? Systematic abuse?

Come on - you've got to have something better than "oh if those people would just do as they are told we wouldn't have to shoot them".

Waiting.

[yeoman6987]

38. My gosh

You are on the wrong story. This young woman was not shot. No wonder you are not getting the discussion. So sorry. There are some other threads that go into detail of this story. If you want me to PM you to give you details of this, I will. That is a relief that we found this out.

[Kingofalldems]

41. I don't think Sen. Sanders would agree with you at all.

Are you still a supporter?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251417437

[TBF]

56. I know she wasn't -

I have read numerous stories about it because I live down here south of Houston. The one time I (a white woman) was stopped for failure to change lanes correctly it was in downtown Houston and there was no pulling anyone out of the car. I just asked why I had been stopped and he told me and that was it. I paid my ticket (no contest) and moved on. It's unusual to even get stopped for that offense but it does cause accidents and it was a reminder to me to be more vigilant about using my turn signals.

My comment went to your entire attitude that this woman deserved to die because she wasn't submissive enough to the police officer. You are blaming the victim. I don't know how much more clear I can be here.

[Travis_0004]

34. I own a bar, but can not allow smoking

I know business would go up if I allowed smoking, why do I have to ban it?

The patrons are coming into my space, they should follow my rules? Same with the servers (most of whom smoke by the way).

Why don't we force them to smoke exposure when they come into my space?

[passiveporcupine]

72. Again, read my post above

Yes, the cop did have the legal right to ask her to put out her cigarette and she was compelled to obey.

Apparently, nobody knows this.

[udbcrzy2]

83. Cop TV shows - they handcuff

I know on the cop tv shows you see, they have people getting out of the car, they are handcuffed and then cited. After they are done, they release them. I guess they handcuff them for THEIR safety. As I understand it, he was going to give her a 'warning' citation and then it escalated. I don't agree the way it was handled after that. She was ultimately arrested for assault on police.

During the press conference the DA said that they were continuing to investigate and the toxicology would be back in 2-3 weeks. So, we'll just have to see what that brings. In the meantime, her family is having their own investigation and an independent autopsy. I don't know when or if they will release that to the public, of course that is up to them.

[passiveporcupine]

84. I don't watch cop TV shows

I don't watch TV at all. I'm going by what the attorney Papantonio said on the Thom Hartman show.

I agree, it escalated beyond all reasonable levels.

[udbcrzy2]

85. One of the inmates was interviewed

One of the inmates was interviewed on tv and she said that Sandra was very upset and crying often. She said that the guy who Sandra moved in with was suppose to be here in one hour, but it's been days and he wasn't answering his phone. It's towards the end of the 5-minute video.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/video-raw-interview-with-sandra-blands-co-inmate/876221/

[beevul]

67. The inside of my car is MY environment. Not yours, not the publics, and not barney fifes.

And I haven't smoked in almost 3 years.

[treestar]

27. He should have asked her to do it politely

He ordered her to do it. She argued with him about it and he flew into a rage and ordered her out of the car.

They should train cops better. He could have handled it by saying the smoke bothered him and asking her to please put it out. He talked like a drill sgt. not like he was talking to a normal person. Cops should be able to handle people better.

[Fred Sanders]

47. The cop did ask politely, she mildly disrespectfully said no, the cop saw "disrespect while black" caused....

the rest of the story.

[maxsolomon]

62. She didn't say no

she asked why she had to.

[treestar]

64. I think they should be trained to handle

some degree of disrespect, rather than immediately escalating because of it. Like teachers and judges, they have to deal with people on the job. People are not always in the best of moods or may be of less than average intelligence.

I had heard that some police departments were training cops to deal with domestic violence situations they get called in on - the awareness people would be upset and the more modern career orientation where you get seminars and instruction on dealing with difficult people.

This department should consider that too. And some racial awareness training. White people are not as likely to be upset at being pulled over because we don't think the police are looking for an excuse to hassle us.

[beevul]

68. Trained or not, the way they fail to police their own, they should expect it.

Failing to police their own is the wellspring for the majority of this.

Honorable mention goes to this:

They believe they should be respected because of the badge and uniform and the job they chose.

Bullshit.

LEO need a lesson in the nature of respect:

It doesn't come on the hanger with the uniform, or in the box with the badge. Respect is earned on the individual level, by how you treat any given individual, and by perceived historical treatment of individuals. The jist of it is that it is EARNED.

In my experience, LEO, and for that matter, a hell of a lot of individuals not LEO, feel they're entitled to it. Nobody, but NOBODY, is entitled to respect.


Respect is earned. Period. You either earn it, or you don't.

[BillZBubb]

49. Congratulations on winning the "Dumbest Post of the Week Award"!

Second hand smoke for a few minutes while standing outside! Oh the danger!!!! He must have feared for his life!!!!!!

You are a hoot, my friend.

[ann---]

51. Oh, please

He was outdoors and the smoke was in her car. He had
no RIGHT to ask her to put it out - politely or not. She
had the RIGHT to smoke in her car and wasn't breaking
any law.

The cop is an arrogant butthead who was the root cause
of this woman's death because she wouldn't have BEEN
in jail had it not been for him.

[Fla Dem]

69. He had the ticket in hand at that point, all he had to do was hand it to her and have her sign it.

The stop would have been OVER! No more cigarette smoke in his face. But no, he wanted to rile her up, "you look upset". Well sure she just got a ticket. When she said she was, then he had to get one more act of superiority in to rile her up even more. "Would you mind putting out the cigarette." No need for it, he knew she would react, he was waiting for it, wanting it. Cops are supposed to deescalate situations, not escalate them. He was wrong from the get go. If she had put out the cig, he would have found some other issue to escalate.

[WillowTree]

4. I, for one, just said.......

........that she didn't do herself any favors by becoming hostile and argumentative. If you already know that things could get dicey.......or, as in this case, much worse than just dicey.......I don't see any percentage in adding fuel to the fire.

But to each her/his own.

[Lee-Lee]

6. She did escalate a warning into an arrest

Had she put out the cigarette he probably would have explained the warning and sent her on her way.

[WillowTree]

32. What happened to her was fifty different kinds of WRONG.

But arguing with him didn't get her anything good, did it? Do you not think that her own hostility only added to the way that the whole thing went down?

[Lee-Lee]

33. Nothing was illegal about an instruction not to smoke

It's as valid as a command to keep your hands empty and on the steering wheel, or to exit the vehicle and keep your hands on the trunk of the car.

Is it a death penalty offense? Of course not. Will it lead to the traffic stop at hand escalating instead of ending? Quite likely. If you then refuse a lawful order to exit the vehicle it definitely will escelate it.

What happened to her in the jail is inexcusable- no matter if it was murder or if it was negligence in leaving a person who admitted a suicidal history unsupervised with the means to harm herself. Either way that Sheriff's department is culpable.

What happened in the traffic stop could have ended quite differently had she put out the cigarette, or even had she exited the car when ordered. She made the choice to not comply with lawful commands and she bears responsibility for that decision.

Before you make a flying leap to conclusions- I'm my saying she deserved to die or anything like that. I'm saying if you decline to follow small, legal instructions at a traffic stop you are making the situation worse every time.

[beevul]

70. "legal instructions"

The request to put of the cig was a request, not an order. It was phrased as a request, not an order.

If every request by a LEO is an 'order', you guys need your power drastically reduced. Especially those of you who argue that a 'request' is an order.

Just because you can get some clown in a robe to agree and bless what you want to do, doesn't make it right.

You and your brothers in blue should think real hard about that.

I'm saying if you decline to follow small, legal instructions at a traffic stop you are making the situation worse every time.

And everyone else is saying that if you, at the end of a traffic stop, use this supposed 'small legal instruction' as a pretext to exercise your authoritah and make things far far worse on an individual who you were about to let go with a warning, that its a dick move, with zero ethical or moral underpinnings.

[Lilith Rising]

58. A-fucking-men.

Exactly: "What the fuck is wrong with you? "

[Kingofalldems]

37. He escalated by effing with her by

demanding to know why she was upset. Guess you forgot that one.

[Lee-Lee]

46. An officer will always ask questions about that

When a person is upset to a degree not normally seen in a traffic stop, of course the officer will ask why.

When I worked domestic violence I got a lot of referrals from this- upset person drives off and drives poorly, gets pulled over for a minor infraction, officer asks about why they are upset and finds out about the abuse, calls me out and I take it from there.

It would be irresponsible of any officer to see a person usually upset during a routine stop and not make an inquiry as to why.

[Kingofalldems]

57. I love that story.

[passiveporcupine]

74. You may not like it, but it is the truth

Not everyone who is "upset" while driving is driving safely. It is one of the things that might alert an officer to start looking for something else than what he pulled someone over for.

I was pulled over by a cop once when I was crying. I passed in an unsafe place, and got a ticket, but I should not have been driving like that in the first place. I was about a block from home, so he let me go. Otherwise, he might not have.

I'm not saying this situation was handled correctly by him...just that he had a right to be concerned with why she was so upset.

[beevul]

73. "When a person is upset to a degree not normally seen in a traffic stop..."

"When a person is upset to a degree not normally seen in a traffic stop, of course the officer will ask why.

That's a bullshit argument, if you, the officer, deliberately cause the 'upset' above and beyond the course of normal duties, like the officer in the Bland case.

Is causing upset above and beyond the course of normal duties part of the job?

[passiveporcupine]

75. Usually someone does not get that upset over being pulled over

Unless they have a previous record that makes it serious to have another ticket. I don't think he was wrong in asking her if she was alright. It was what he did after that, that was totally fucked up.

[beevul]

80. He knew why she was upset before he asked.

That guts that entire line of argument.

What he did, was the equivalent of punching someone in the nose, then asking why they are bleeding.

Any cop, so disconnected from ethical/moral behavior and so ignorant of current events as to act or be clueless why a black woman would be upset to be pulled over, has no business exercising power over anything more than a packet of Kool-Aid.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

86. He never asked her what was wrong.

He never asked her, "What's wrong"? Bland said he did, but if you watch the video he never asked her that. He did note, "You seem irritated".

[lostnfound]

44. As long as she smiled nicely at him and said "Siir Yes Sir"

Or maybe not. Maybe if she had done those thimgs, he still would've felt that she had not been humiliated enough, and he would've required her to get out of the car so he could do a strip search on the side of the road, because he was in such a bad mood and pissed off at the object of his hate, which is obviously black people. He's already shown from the previous incident, that his frustration at not being able to make an arrest when he wants to, leads him to humiliate, without fear of repercussions .

Frustrated at not find any drugs in a "drug bust", he and a few other cops decided to humiliate the young black men in the drug bust, in their house, by making them take off their clothes and walk around naked. This, even after warnings on his record. And how does he managed to get elected? It might have something to do with the voter suppression going on in Texas, and in Waller County in particular.

This jackass has serious mental problems and is simply filled with hate.

[tblue37]

60. You are confusing the (elected) sheriff with this cop, who had been on the job for one year. nt

[lostnfound]

61. Oops. Thanks for clearing that up. I really was confused. Nt

[tblue37]

63. A lot of people have been confused because the reporting has been so careless.

Either the reporters get it wrong themselves or else they phrasethings so carelessly that readers can scarcely figure out what they mean!

I am surprised that anyone ever figures it out.

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. They both acted stupidly

She was antagonistic and acted like an idiot. I would never bait a cop like that.

He was ego driven. He should have been above that and just handed her the warning and left. It was as if he wanted her to be grateful for the warning instead of the ticket. And, he took what she said personally. He should have been above it--water off of a duck's back. Instead he got into it with her. Stupid.

They were both acting inappropriately.

The huge conspiracy theories here though are over the top. The officer did not work for the jail. The coroner is an elected official, and independent of the jail and of the law enforcement entity who arrested her. There would have to be at least three separate governmental entities colluding against this woman. I do not believe the conspiracy theories.

[justiceischeap]

9. This has nothing to do with conspiracy theories and everything to do with expectations of treatment

by a segment of our population.

And good for you with your perfect behavior but sometimes life gets to us and makes us act in ways that we wouldn't normally do so. Do I know if that is the case with Sandra Bland? No, I don't but I also know that as a black woman she may have preconceived notions of how a white police officer is going to treat her. There's a problem in law enforcement that has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. As a white woman, I don't necessarily have to concern myself with those problems but I can't deny that they are there.

As far as the inappropriate behavior of both parties, I agree, they both were out of line, one more so than the other because one of them is (supposed to be) trained to deal with hostile people, the other not. It's the officers job not to escalate a situation but to deescalate it. At least, that's what I was taught back when I considered law enforcement as a career. That officer did all the wrong things causing the escalation to go to the point it did and then took advantage of that act to make things worse. He did a piss poor job on that traffic stop all because someone didn't say "Yes, sir", "No, sir", "Immediately sir."

[niyad]

52. perhaps you should read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027000449

[TBF]

18. Systematic corruption and militarization of police forces

are the phrases we should be considering here. The evidence of POC being treated brutally by police departments is overwhelming, and the occasional white folks are being targeted and/or killed as well. Where is DOJ on this?

[Stellar]

43. Very thoughtful response.

I don't recall who it was that posted to me, that they didn't think that they could be black 'all day'. I thought it was very honest, and kind of funny.

[samsingh]

48. kick

[Igel]

50. You haven't been paying attention.

A lot of people have taken it from an idealized "POC's" POV. Probably most DUers. Yeah, you can find a thread or two where most posts are from the police's POV, but those are less common by far.

The problem is there are two different interactional norms at play. We see the cop's and Bland's responses through the lens of which norm we think is appropriate. I've seen that type of interaction and both sides assert quite loudly that the other side did all the escalation--even if there's an admission that one should have been the grown up and just looked at the other side with boredom. Oddly, while there's a bit of discussion of this in various literatures, the assumption is that at most one side has to compromise. It's a matter of dignity for the other side not to compromise. The usual tack, however, is to avoid all discussion of this because there's no way to discuss it without being accused of some horrible moral flaw.

The other problem is that group boundaries matter. Calling somebody a pussy and questioning his manhood in as offensive terms possible may be unacceptable to both sides--but as soon as a group boundary comes into play, then it's not just permitted but for some even praiseworthy. So not only are there different styles of interaction, but there's a strong motive to justify one side and condemn the other, even before the first word is spoken.

I could have scripted their interaction, given a few words "mad lib" style, ahead of time. I'd have come up with two variants. The first would have left her driving off 5 minutes later with a warning. The second would have had a very high probability of a serious shouting match and a good likelihood of a real ticket for various things or being taken to jail. The second would also have had a possible outcome in which the professional involved had basically ignored what was said and taken the abuse, but metaphorically ripping up the warning and writing her a ticket.

The two scripts matched perfectly the first AfAm driver's interaction and Bland's. I don't think of the first AfAm driver's reactions are particularly servile, just the norm when interacting with professionals doing their jobs. That's how I tell my kid to behave around police, and how I behave. (And, once you've established the framework, then you can express more. But until then, you don't.)

[tblue37]

59. Actor Wendell Pierce describes clearly the danger of DWB:

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