Didn't pay any taxes yet received $8.8 billion from government!

[Playinghardball]

Print out & circulate widely!



Found on BernieBrigade

[Ilsa]

1. keep it kicked. nt

[WDIM]

2. Tax evasion another crime of the megawealthy that goes ignored. nt

[yeoman6987]

30. I don't think companies can be tax evaders

Don't forget all the employees are paying taxes.

[CreekDog]

42. wtf??? companies can't be tax evaders?

more made up BS, again???

i cannot believe the amount of made us BS that you post.

it's astounding.

so you don't *think* a company can be a tax evader?

if you're not going to bother being informed, why do you find it necessary to post your thoughts if they are going to be factually wrong?

[raouldukelives]

34. Helps when one is aided and abetted by every shareholder. nt

[DirkGently]

3. KNR n/t

[BrotherIvan]

4. I know, let's give them "tax incentives"

That's the ticket!

[abelenkpe]

13. +1000 nt

[daleanime]

22. ......

And republicans worry about some one ripping off SNAP for $60.

[Igel]

31. That would be Pepco.

Holding company for regional electricity companies.

Apparently it paid taxes. But then there were incentives to modernize and seek renewable energy sources. It met the requirements and got the rebates even as it was getting energy price increases.

That's how government incentives to drive consumer and business behavior go. All those "smart energy" and "renewable energy" and "conservation" initiatives have consequences. Can't say how wonderful those initiatives are, how farsighted, and then complain when somebody uses them to their own benefit.

[Doctor_J]

5. kick

Hey! They create (8 dollar per hour) jobs.

[SoapBox]

12. ...that are part-time, temporary with no benefits!

Love those job creators.

[mmonk]

6. Disgusting, isn't it?

[GoneFishin]

7. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling know that I can do my part by paying higher taxes, driving

around potholes, and losing friends and relatives in an occasional bridge collapse so these poor souls can have spares sets of gold utensils and serving trays on their executive jets.

It's the least I can do for a worthy cause.

[former9thward]

8. It might be helpful to post their last 3 years of profits/losses.

Instead of just one year. But maybe it would not be helpful to the meme.

[bunnies]

10. Looks to me like its from 2008 to 2012.

You think these companies actually had losses?

[former9thward]

18. Actually you can carry net losses forward for 20 years.

You are right, it seems to cover 08-12. I imagine many had losses in the Great Recession. But to be accurate profit and losses would have to be posted from 1992-2012. I don't know what that would show but cutting it off with only a 1/4 of that is odd. There is a reason they got a tax refund during those years. What is it? Surely the person who gathered that information would know that....

[daleanime]

24. Thanks to pay as you go governance....

they were allowed to write the tax codes to their own benefit?

[former9thward]

25. Yes of course.

I doubt any House member, Senator or President is smart enough to write hundreds of pages of tax code with all of its implications. So lobbyists have great influence.

[JDPriestly]

14. Could you post that information, please?

Good idea.

[former9thward]

17. That would take days to produce.

So, no, I will decline your suggestion. Perhaps the OP should do it.

[JDPriestly]

19. If the companies had lost a lot of money and if that was why they paid

no taxes, it would not be hard to find that data.

The fact is that those companies don't want us to know how much they make in profits.

I have not read that any of them have taken big hits on the stock market. That might be an indication that they were losing money.

It's up to the companies to tell the truth about their financial situations. Don't hold your breath.

It could be that one or two of those companies has lost money in the past three to four years, but virtually all have made huge profits, large enough to permit them to pay for favors in Congress.

[former9thward]

21. If it is not hard to find

then perhaps you will do your own homework assignment. Remember you have to go back 20 years (1992) because net operating losses can be carried forward 20 years.

[hifiguy]

9. Kick.

Rec

And they send jobs by the tens of thousands out of the country to help make these profits.

Not only thievery, but TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZED THIEVERY!!!

[Hotler]

11. Kicking..... n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

15. There should be an alternative minimum tax for Corporations

since they are now people. They deserve to be treated as badly as the rest of us.

[former9thward]

20. There is one. Form 4626.

If you are interested this is 12 pages of IRS instructions on it.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i4626.pdf

[erronis]

16. These may be some of the larger evaders

But I know that many highly-paid americans avoid/evade as much tax as they can, and then rail about the high rates.

Most of the swank mini-mansions surrounding the DC beltway weren't built on normal salaries. Fraud and cheating are the norm for the trash at the top. However they get real upset if us workers/laborers don't pay for their lifestyle.

[former9thward]

26. Everyone evades when possible.

That is why the 'cash under the table' economy is so popular. It is why my server smiles when I pay her tip in cash instead of putting the tip on the credit card.

[CreekDog]

33. That you think everyone does it

says more about you than you seem to realize.

[former9thward]

35. That you don't says

you don't get out of the house much. Try interacting with real people once in awhile instead of anonymous electrons on the internet. Go talk to any server at a restaurant or any bartender. There is a real world out there.

[CreekDog]

37. You think everyone cheats, that means you cheat, correct?

An attorney posting that he breaks the law and that everyone else does is one rationalizing his cheating on the false premise that everyone else does.

You certainly are not a good reflection on this community and the legal community.

[Gormy Cuss]

39. No, everyone does not evade taxes, not even all waitstaff and bartenders.

That's the real world for ya. But I'm willing to bet that all of the unpaid taxes from 'under the table' jobs don't hold a candle to the professional tax avoidance of businesses.

[former9thward]

40. How come people prefer to be paid in cash?

I guess they just don't want to have to go to the bank. What bartender or server reports all their cash tips? Who?

[CreekDog]

41. I prefer to get a check

Either you're wrong or I'm not a member of "people".

Are you seriously an attorney? I've never seen a post so broad brush and easy to disprove.

Also you said "everyone does it".

So everyone includes you, right? So are you saying you cheat on your taxes as you seem to be saying everyone else does?

Wow.

[CreekDog]

44. you seem to think everyone lies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=978732

are you telling the truth?

you're saying everyone cheats, you seem to suggest everyone, or maybe just a Democrat would lie.

are you telling the truth?

either you're a part of the "everyone" or you're claiming to be honest when everyone else is not.

are you?

[Gormy Cuss]

45. Because they control the tip out.

Because they don't get ripped off by sleazy managers.

[former9thward]

46. And you believe they completely report the full amount to the IRS?

[Gormy Cuss]

47. I believe that most try to, yes.

The IRS has tools to detect egregious under-reporting. It's not like the old days.

[former9thward]

48. In places I go people tip well above the standard 15-20%.

No, that is not being reported. But let's go with the evil corporations are the only ones who don't pay taxes...

[CreekDog]

50. i thought you said people cheat and evade?

so all people cheat on their taxes, but they overtip their servers at these restaurants?

are you claiming omniscience?

[Gormy Cuss]

53. That's called an anecdote

Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

and no one said that corporations were the only entities not paying taxes. The topic at hand is corporate income tax, BTW.

[former9thward]

54. I know.

And I earlier posted that when looking at the corporate taxes you have to look at their losses. Net operating losses can be carried forward for 20 years. So you have to look at their profit/losses from 1992 on, not just 2008-12 as the chart does.

BTW others have posted anecdotes in this thread but strangely you did not call them on it. Well not so strange...

[Gormy Cuss]

56. Not strange at all, if you look at my responses in this thread.

You're the only poster that I've engaged on this thread and the anecdotal comment was at the end of that exchange.


The CTJ chart in the OP is presented for the most recent five years of available data but they've done similar charts as far back as the mid-'80s. It would be interesting to compile them for that entire 27 year period and see which corporations specialize in net operating losses and how they achieve that status while staying in business.

[CreekDog]

43. you said everyone evades when possible, i notice when asked if you're part of "everyone" ...silence

it's really simple, "i don't evade my taxes".

you said everyone does, are you tax evader as you say everyone is, or are you not?

[jalan48]

23. How would Hillary's tax incentive strategy work in this case to improve worker wages?

[Le Taz Hot]

27. America -- The best government

money can buy.

When I think of how we had to scrape money together last April in order to pay our tax bill, and I mean SCRAPE, this kind of stuff just makes me crazy.

[jmowreader]

28. Now you know why the "highest corporate tax rate in the world" meme is ridiculous

[niyad]

29. k and r

[Indydem]

32. Almost all energy companies.

Almost each an every one of these corporations are energy companies and/ or public utilities.

They received massive tax credits to institute solar and wind rollouts during these periods.

So which is it? We want to spend money to get a greener power grid, or we want to bitch about how we had to give tax incentives to do it?

If you don't understand the tax code, tax incentives, carried losses, r&d credits, and business in general, you have no business complaining about this stuff.

[1939]

36. I keep seeing this graphic and don't understand where the numbers are coming from.

I go to a publication called Value Line which does stock analyses for investors.

Lets take PACCAR (makes Peterbilt and Kenworth over the road large trucks)

Net Profit in Millions
2008 1,017.9
2009 83.0
2010 457.6
2011 1,042.3
2012 1,111.6
2013 1,171.3
2014 1,359.2

Income Tax Rate By year
2008 30.5%
2009 36.1%
2010 30.7%
2011 30.8%
2012 31.8%
2013 30.9%
2014 31.0%

PACCAR wouldn't have any of these green incentives since they are a truck manufacturing company.

Why the difference between Value Line's numbers and the graphic posted by the OP?

Corning's income tax rate was more variable, dropping to 3% in 2009 and 2010 before climbing back to 30.7% in 2014.

[Takket]

38. Can the GOP at least agree...

That even if they think GE shouldn't pay taxes, that at least we shouldn't be giving them 3 billion on top of the 27 they already made!!!!

[Quantess]

49. K & R

[riversedge]

51. k and r.

[angryvet]

52. The corporations

destroy our roads, make almost exclusive use of the court system, demand educated work force and THEY PAY NOTHING. How did this system get this dreadful. McConnell says we can't fix roads unless we take money from seniors????? How about making the corporations in this list give up a few shekels?

[Initech]

55. No wonder our government is so broke.

[TheFarseer]

57. I think we should lower corporate tax rates

They should pay 10 percent of whatever they report to shareholders and then take credits off of that so the government can incentive certain things. Then they should make individual investors pay more on their investments. No special rates but make the first ten thousand (or whatever) of investment income is tax free.

[libodem]

58. .