General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf they called the TPP "Obamatrade", would it *then* bother people?
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/david-swanson/62930/out-of-whackObamatrade, which is the name not given to a potential treaty, a.k.a. the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), says that . . .
You must let foreign corporations overturn national laws.
You must throw millions of people out of work.
You must pay more for medicine.
You must allow banks to gamble on and crash the economy.
You must not know what's in your food.
You must be censored online.
You must destroy family farming.
You must wreck the environment.
You must get paid less.
ALL OF THIS doesn't bother anybody?...
Is it me, or is everything related to Obamacare just a little bit out of whack?
If we were to rename the single largest and most destructive program that the U.S. government wastes money and lives on "Obamawar," would it then start to bother people?
Can we call the subsidizing of fossil fuels "Obamasmoke"? Would the earth win a few more supporters if we did?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)newfie11
(8,159 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)You must be wrong about the TPP. Do you have any proof it is intended to bring about those effects? No. Quit trying to use this as a wedge issue. Nobody is falling for it.
HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)and we are supposed to believe our government really wants to wreck our economy.
It's obviously much more complex than that.
Trying to bully people into accepting the wedge issue isn't going to work because many people think for themselves.
ananda
(28,895 posts)They wrote it after all.
For the 99% it's an utter disaster.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)on upper income didn't happen, he doesn't continue to include further tax increases in every budget, the pipeline is pumping tar sand dirty oil into our heartland, and a bunch more that proves he is selling us down the river.
He's been working to undermine us since he took office.
Do I need the Sarcasm thingie?
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Because we live in Idiocracy now and what you've said is something I've heard argued passionately as 'facts'. Even on DU.
Skittles
(153,298 posts)marble falls
(57,479 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)that would not have been regulated otherwise. Since it's complicated, people can use it to scare others.
There's no proof it would have any of those effects.
marble falls
(57,479 posts)better by making it easier to export US jobs?
Renew Deal
(81,897 posts)Are those claims direct quotes?
randome
(34,845 posts)Oh. Sorry. I was looking at some other post.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
B Calm
(28,762 posts)in Congress that passed it!
Romulox
(25,960 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)like NAFTA.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Let them pass it with a veto-proof majority, and I'll let him off the hook from being every bit as responsible as the Republicans you want to give all the blame to.
He couldn't do it without them, and they couldn't do it without him.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)Is that what you're claiming?
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Same thing with the NAFTA vote.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)You do know that don't you?
Romulox
(25,960 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)how complex it is and would not be jumping on bandwagons to allow internet posters to scare them about it and use it to divide the Democrats.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)marble falls
(57,479 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)And demand proof of the assertions that the US government and the banks and corporations and global actors are in this big conspiracy to destroy the world.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)You support the powerful over the powerless--reflexively, and at every turn.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Remember when *Shrub said "you're either with us or against us"? It's that kind of black and white thinking that we've detested here at DU.
Some of us would rather wait to see the facts before setting our hair on fire.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I also don't oppose it. I don't know the contents of what's in it, and I refuse to base my decisions on leaked drafts that can't be verified.
HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)They're privy to the actual text as it sits right now (which, is different from the leaks). Notice they haven't mentioned any specifics of why they don't like it?
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Treestar (who I commented in support of) has never given support of the TPP.
Politicians who I like and support are on both sides of the argument, so...
Black and white thinking, it's a bad thing.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Nor do I oppose it. I am ambivalent on it right now until the text of the final agreement comes out and I can look at the details for myself.
You can try and put words in my mouth, but it won't change a thing on my end.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I got it.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)you're mighty naive.
I've got a glass of some deconstructed water I can sell you though that will cure your naivety permanently. Just $1000.
(Deconstructed water is invisible. You'll have to take my word for it that it contains hydrogen gas and oxygen gas in the correct 2:1 ratio.)
(just like you expect us to believe the foolishness that this FTA written by corporate lobbyists isn't a corporate giveaway.)
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Supreme Court decision. You know, like you did.
Unsurprisingly its mostly the same people defending the TPP.
gordianot
(15,253 posts)I was at one time an ardent almost fanatical Obama supporter. There is no repair possible for his support of the trade deals. Time will show everything Obama accomplished was secondary to the trade deals. Overtime pay adjustments is also no substitution. The degree that Obama's name can be used to disgust Republicans sounds to me a worthy legacy for his Presidency.
ananda
(28,895 posts)We've been sold down the river, so to speak.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)If you google the term you will find the usual RW loons have used that term many times. There is even a website.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)You said, "Is it me"
It is you. Thanks for your concern
HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)and to say that you can't believe the leaks or anything except direct statements from the President is authoritarianism at its worst
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)and Fox News bobble head call it "Obamatrade".
B Calm
(28,762 posts)in congress that passed this piece of shit and handed to Obama to sign.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)"There are several reasons to support the TPP despite globalization concerns. First, the TPP which seeks to govern exchange of not only traditional goods and services, but also intellectual property and foreign investment would promote trade in knowledge-intensive services in which U.S. companies exert a strong comparative advantage. Second, killing the TPP would do little to bring factory work back to America. Third, and perhaps most important, although China is not part of the TPP, enacting the agreement would raise regulatory rules and standards for several of Chinas key trading partners. That would pressure China to meet some of those standards and cease its attempts to game global trade to impede foreign multinational companies. . . . . . .
"But if the TPP has little downside for the U.S., whats the upside? Why bother with the deal at all? The reason is that the TPP is about much more than manufacturing. Most notably, it promises to liberalize trade in services and in agriculture, sectors in which the United States runs large trade surpluses, but which the World Trade Organization, despite 20 years of trying, has failed to pry open internationally. Successfully exporting information and computer services, where the U.S. maintains substantial technological leadership, requires more than low tariffs. It also requires protecting patents against infringement and safeguarding business assets and revenues against expropriation by foreign governments. To the extent that Obama succeeds in enshrining these guarantees in the TPP, the agreement would give a substantial boost to U.S. trade. . . . . . .
"Expanding global trade has remade manufacturing, forcing workers, businesses, and entire regions to endure often painful adjustments. However, much as we might like to return to 1970 when manufacturing comprised a quarter of U.S. nonfarm employment, thats impossible without massive protectionist barriers that would isolate the U.S. economy and lower U.S. living standards. Blocking the TPP because of justified unhappiness over manufacturings lost glory would amount to refighting the last trade war beggaring the future as retribution for the past. A responsible trade agenda should instead seek to provide the supporting policy structure protections for intellectual property and freedom from confiscatory regulations that allows U.S. companies to excel in the sectors where they are strong."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/03/12/why-obamas-key-trade-deal-with-asia-would-actually-be-good-for-american-workers/
HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)just what industries like Big Pharm need more of...
Joe Turner
(930 posts)I have to laugh at the ridiculous extent you TPP supporters go to sell this economic poison. Unless you have been home bound or institutionalized for 25 years, corporate trade deals such as TPP have done exactly that...lower U.S. living standards..Dramatically. TPP if passed will be the final blow to our once proud and healthy Middle Class.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)History makes that clear. When this country cared about building its industry we made sure our trade policies encouraged domestic production. We gave that up with corporate trade policies.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Joe Turner
(930 posts)and corporate trade deals have been at the epicenter of our industrial decline. No matter how compelling the evidence is of self serving corporate trade agreements cause on the decline of manufacturing in America, Shills like you just ignore it like the ignoramuses you are.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Joe Turner
(930 posts)Signing corporate trade pacts that inure to the benefit of other nations at the expense of American workers has nothing to do with being competitive or isolating ourselves. This country became the world's industrial power with the highest standard of living without corporate trade deals. Our trade policy prior to the late 1970s was crafted to provide jobs and grow new industries. It was an epic success as America ran trade surpluses and built the most powerful industrial economy ever with plentiful jobs and opportunity. Contrast that with the nightmare of corporate hegemony where corporations write our trade policy allowing them to plunder with the wealth of this country and export jobs by the millions as they hold their hands out for taxpayer subsidies. What's that saying about the definition of insanity?
ismnotwasm
(42,023 posts)Starts with TPP--then takes a slam at The ACA. My home state has 1.6 million newly insured people with the ACA--many of them for the first time. The TTP had been in the works for years and is care more complicated that simplistic internet jargon. I'm not a fan of parts of what I know, but I do understand we need a significant trade deal. I'm glad we have a Democrat in office to facilitate it.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,023 posts)Behave.
HomerRamone
(1,112 posts)Commenters here are focusing on Obama himself. The article is saying that although we should have single payer instead, Obamacare isn't nearly as awful as TPP (and executive and judicial overreach and corporations buying politicians and war and subsidized fossil fuels). So why aren't people up in arms about the worse things? Is it because they don't associate them with Obama? (I'd argue it's that and because they haven't been whipped up into a frenzy over them because Republicans and corporate media want these things).
ismnotwasm
(42,023 posts)As well as don't have immediate, personal impact, like the ACA does. The trade deal I despise most is CAFTA. I simply don't know enough yet about TTP-- although I fully intend to, to the best of my ability as it unfolds.
I do know it's been negotiated for years. Wiki has an interesting page on it at least.
Elwood P Dowd
(11,443 posts)The damn TPP piece of whale feces was written by Wall Street executives on loan to USTR.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Pub governors refuse the subsidy!