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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThese tweets are so on the money: #WhoIsBurningBlackChurches
"After Charleston, black people were begged to remain nonviolent. Then white racists torched 7 of their churches."
"The same people who talked on end about a CVS being burnt down remain silent as black churches burn repeatedly."
"I seen dumpsters set on fire in riots get more news coverage than these churches."
"The silent consent of White Christians for the epidemic of terrorist attacks on black churches speaks volumes."
"I woke up in 2015. From the looks of it I'll be going to sleep in 1963.
"We saw pictures of the CVS burning from every angle, including helicopter shots, for weeks. Black Churches? Crickets."
https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhoIsBurningBlackChurches?src=hash
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NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)When these criminals are caught, twenty-year sentences all around are in order.
Chiquitita
(752 posts)acquire permits to demonstrate in public places. The Klan claimed responsibility for the burning of the church in Greeleyville, SC twenty years ago. The same church that just burned, which the Feds will not say is arson.
I guess as long as one petitioner has US citizenship, you could by the same logic allow ISIS to march "peacefully." One terrorist group is treated like the VFW, the other like devils.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Here in the North, in Kingston, NY, the Klan wanted to hold a rally a few years back. Thousands of us mobilized, so that when they marched, we were on the sidewalks peacefully with signs against them. I don't believe that there was one local person in their march.
The kicker is that they were going to stay and eat/drink at a popular place here until the owner closed the place for "family reasons" while they were there. The owner was one of us protesting!
They never came back. I sure hope they never do.
malaise
(269,242 posts)be afraid of ISIS - ignore racist terrorism against African-American citizens!
Chiquitita
(752 posts)It's all the white people that remain silent that allow this to go on. And I know why -- because these racist folks are scary, but this has got to be OUR fight or we have no moral standing whatsoever.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)And they are probably responsible for burning down those Christian Churches.
And it was a Christian who murdered the doctor in the church. And it was a Christian who shot up the churches in Tenn and North Carolina.
It seems to me that Christians have absolutely no respect for Christian places of worship. Christians are more likely to murder you in a Christian church than anyone else.
Be careful about attending church all you Christians. Your fellow Christians are dangerous.
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)
GeorgeGist
(25,326 posts)until after the FBI began to investigate. Credit to the 3 local Knoxville TV stations that did.
think
(11,641 posts)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)This is becoming a terrorist movement if it isn't one already. This is what terrorists do. They are frightening and even killing people for some sick political end.
It isn't enough to have the FBI investigate this. We need the white Christian churches to investigate this too and to preach out loudly against burning churches of any kind. This is really horrible.
I am a Unitarian, and I felt a little nervous about going into a Unitarian congregation on Sunday because my church is a little different too. Pretty soon these extremists will pick on Catholic churches or other churches. Movements like the KKK, etc. start picking on the most vulnerable, in our country-- African-Amercans and immigrants (just wait), and then find yet another group to intimidate.
It's the intimidation, the feeling of power they get from being violent to some group or individual that can't fight back politically that motivates them. They are losers who feel like winners when they hurt someone that is powerless.
They see African-Americans as powerless and can identify African-Americans easily and that is why they are picking on them.
Think about this for a moment. Is there anything more cowardly than burning churches, than killing people while they are at church? Is there any place less likely to be guarded by armed guards than a church? Is there any place in which you are less likely to find armed people than a church? Think about the cowardice of these acts.
These racists are cowards who only pick on people they think are weak and vulnerable. They create in their minds a myth that the people they pick are dangerous, but deep down, the victims are picked because the killers, the burners, view the victims as finally someone they don't have to be afraid of.
Cowardice and fearfulness are the bases of racism.
If these cowardly racists are not stopped from picking on African-Americans, they will pick on the next most vulnerable group next. Because what they are really trying to destroy is their own fear, their own cowardice. They want to prove to themselves that they aren't really the cowards that they know that they are. That is the basic impulse of a terrorist -- a cowardly fear that makes them sneaky and cruel.
Compare the actions of cowardly terrorists to the courageous actions of Ghandi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. who calmly and quietly and with great dignity and confidence confronted the most powerful.
We all have a stake in stopping this terrorist movement.
Racism is not an African-American problem although African-Americans are its first victims.
Racism is a white problem because it thrives in white communities when white people are silent about it. It's white pastors who have to end the persecution of African-American Christians.
brer cat
(24,630 posts)I am not sure what you mean by white churches "investigating" the burning of black churches. Are you suggesting that they are somehow more capable than the FBI or local police in identifying the arsonists? Are you suggesting that the arsonists are members of and possibly being supported by white churches? Not slamming you at all...I'm just trying to understand.
White churches can and should do quite a bit in this situation. Speaking out very forcefully is certainly important. Those in the same communities with burned churches should be offering use of their facilities until the churches are rebuilt. Having some joint services can send a message of solidarity to the arsonists as well as let them know they are not welcome in the white churches if that is where they would normally attend. Money to rebuild is important, and I think white churches could take the lead there...taking as much as possible out of their own budgets to help.
I don't personally know anyone who would be an arsonist, and I seriously doubt that you do, so we can't speak from any personal knowledge about their motives or thought processes. But I suspect you are correct when you describe them as cowards who are picking on those they view as weak and vulnerable. There was an article in WAPO this morning that stated that the reason is:
"Because they [black churches] have always remained a symbol of hope in the darkness of American racism and a source of leadership, political and religious, in the African American community." I may not "know" them, but I will bet my last dollar they don't have a thought process that would lead them to see "symbols of hope" or "sources of leadership." The churches are nothing more than safe targets for those who love to strut their hate.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I suspect that Southern churches have become or remained too often silent on the passive racism of their society.
I appreciate your question. Thanks for giving me the chance to explain. I mean the moral investigation of the heart and soul on the general issue of racism.
I don't think that the FBI's investigation will do much to change hearts and minds, but if the Southern (and Northern but the fires are in the South) churches lead their congregations in an inner investigation of the moral wrong of racism, then progress can be made.
Racism is only in a small part today a political issue. It is a moral issue, and an issue of the heart and of the soul. It is a sickness of self-indulgence and self-deception, and that is a spiritual matter more than it is a legal matter.
brer cat
(24,630 posts)had that "moral investigation" decades ago, and significant and very genuine changes occurred within the member churches, including the recognition that racism is wrong. As far as I know, the Southern Baptists were the last to come on board, but they have at long last declared racism a sin, and currently have an AA President. Earlier this year, they called for a leadership summit on racial reconciliation following the murders of black men in Ferguson and NYC. So even the last of the hold-outs is actively attempting to change hearts and minds and were doing so prior to the massacre at Emmanuel AME and the burning of black churches.
Individual churches are a different matter, of course. We have a church in my small town that was formed when some members bolted from the Episcopal church over ordination of gay bishops (they also opposed the ordination of women). Many of us identify them as "the church that hate built." There are independent churches formed to preserve racial segregation as well. I sincerely doubt that anything anyone says or does will change any hearts or minds there. The ones I know about are very small, insular and private, unlike say publicity seeking Westboro Baptist.
There is no monolithic church/religion in the south, and to suggest that we have been ignoring the march of time is more than a bit condescending. Racists cowards who burn churches do not represent the south any more than racist cops who kill black men represent New Yorkers.
I do believe that churches have the power and responsibility to speak up when injustice occurs, and I stated several examples in my response to your earlier post. There will be strong voices, both white and black, speaking up in pulpits across the south come Sunday. Now, what are we going to do about the 20%+ who do not attend or affiliate with a church?
Hestia
(3,818 posts)and our state paper, so it is being reported . And this Ark. Charlie Rose, a little long in the tooth for my blood (where is Harry Smith?) but he was appalled and aghast at the arson's. He has a tone he uses when he is pissed and he was all over it this a.m.
Surely the FBI can figure out who it is. Arson is a particular psychopathy (like serial killing) so surely they have found a signature by now. As with all "ongoing investigations" we won't hear about it until arrests or killings of the arsonists.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)This is a continuing situation. I am angry and I do not know what to do. Can we flood the sheriff with email?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)helping to rebuild and condemn this behavior.
But the media coverage is what I am not sure will help. There are a lot of racists out there. Making this a top story could just encourage more of them to act. Since the FBI and other federal agencies are investigating it may be better to keep this pattern from expanding.
yardwork
(61,737 posts)The hypocrisy of the media coverage is infuriating. There's virtually no coverage of the church burnings.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Now, I want to hear the Candidatrs for President speak about this issue.
Chiquitita
(752 posts)We have a problem with white supremacy and institutionalized racism in the US, including segregationist practices in housing, and underfunding of public education, job opportunities, etc. White people need to educate ourselves and speak up. We have to own this and realize that if we keep silent we are complicit. And, if not all these fires turn out to be arson (as someone below suggests) that does not mean that we white people don't need to talk to friends, family and coworkers loud and clear and repeat that white racism is on us and we need to pay attention and stop it.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)Almost all of these fires are being ruled as accidental due to electrical or storms.
Only 2 of 7 have been ruled arson (last I checked), and one of them was related to the theft of thousands of dollars of electronic equipment from the church.
Fires happen. Steeples attract lightning.
Just because a black church burns doesn't mean that racists are burning them down.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Church fires are not all that uncommon, according to a 2013 report from the National Fire Protection Association, the trade association that develops fire codes. The group found an average of 1,780 fires per year at churches, mosques, temples and other religious buildings between 2007 and 2011, of which 16 percent were intentionally set. It does not identify how many of the blazes turned out to be hate crimes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/30/fire-crews-battling-a-blaze-at-historic-black-church-near-charleston/
Indydem
(2,642 posts)Shit happens - such is life.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Seems unlikely that they are accidental and not part of something larger.
How many other buildings have burned down due to lightning? How many white churches in those same states? How long have these buildings been around? etc. etc. too many questions with answers that likely add up to not an accident.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)No? So I suppose it would be a hell of a lot more difficulty to find out about them, huh?
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)All occurring after the murderous rampage in a black church just over two weeks ago. I would guess the odds are pretty high.
Horse with no Name
(33,958 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)federal investigators but they needed to be there day one.
if ONE of these fires is because of racists burning Black churches, then it is a NATIONAL emergency. 
B2G
(9,766 posts)craigmatic
(4,510 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Indydem
(2,642 posts)God?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Indydem
(2,642 posts)Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #23)
Name removed Message auto-removed
randys1
(16,286 posts)
man you guys just never give up, do you
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Not bad for an RPG.
solarjre
(24 posts)My first post, and didn't think an emoticon was necessary.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)solarjre
(24 posts)My first post on DU and I get sent to the principal's office!
I am almost always sarcastic, but I will be sure to use the emoticon in the future so as not to be mistaken for a giant tool.
solarjre
(24 posts)My first post on DU and I get sent to the principal's office!
I am almost always sarcastic, but I will be sure to use the emoticon in the future so as not to be mistaken for a giant tool.
Blus4u
(608 posts)Enjoy your stay.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The latest church fire in South Carolina does not appear to be a criminal act, according to two sources familiar with the investigation.
Officials said investigators from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were on scene at Mt. Zion AME Church in Greeleyville, but the cause of the Tuesday night fire is unclear. State and federal authorities are involved with the investigation.
The preliminary assessment, which includes some eyewitness accounts indicating there may have been a lightning strike, will be enhanced when the forensic examiners are able to make more conclusive assessments.
"We do not want to make any assumptions about what has occurred," Williamsburg County Supervisor Stanley Pasley said at a news conference in Greeleyville this morning. But one thing for certain, he added, is that the "church will have to be rebuilt."
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Martin Eden
(12,881 posts)People whose fear, anger, ignorance, and frustration has manifested in hatred and acts of insane violence.
The real question:
Who has manipulated them, and why?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Let these arsonists see what the charges are for this and maybe they'll return to the shadows.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)
eridani
(51,907 posts)--to turn their buildings into condos. A local group got into property title research and compiled lists of properties where the landlords had stopped paying property tax, and put volunteer neighborhood watches on them. A number of arsons were prevented that way. Granted, doing something like this on a regional basis would be much harder, but the is the Internet Age and we should be thinking bigger. I don't live anywhere near where the churches are burning, but I would be glad to contribute my widow's mite to such a project.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:
"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
Seems to me that the systematic burning of black churches meets all three criteria. Why won't the media call it "white supremacist terrorism," just as they refer to "Islamic terrorism?" To me this is the soft racism of the media. This kind of terrorism is a much greater threat to many more Americans than "Islamic fundamentalist terrorism". When are we going to see the same kind of commitment from the media and more importantly, the federal and state governments?
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)It's true. The networks wouldn't stop airing the burning drug store. Churches, not so much.
liberal N proud
(60,349 posts)The hate is tearing us apart!
