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kpete

(71,898 posts)
Mon May 25, 2015, 08:54 AM May 2015

I didn't serve in Vietnam for freedom...

by Z. Woof



I didn't serve in Vietnam for freedom...

or liberty, or the flag.

I didn't serve for the reasons people think of when they tell me, "Thanks for your service."

I knew that this war was not about any of that stuff.

I served for 365 days and a wake up, as we called it.

I served so I would not be imprisoned by my government.

I served because my father asked me to. Later, he admitted he was wrong and apologized.

I served with these guys.



I served to save them and myself for 365 days and a wake up.

I failed.






http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/25/1387471/-I-didn-t-serve-in-Vietnam-for-freedomI failed.
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I didn't serve in Vietnam for freedom... (Original Post) kpete May 2015 OP
Thanks for your good work to keep safe the man next to you. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #1
Couldn't have said it better myself. GGJohn May 2015 #2
I didn't understand why we were there erlewyne May 2015 #114
I enlisted because I then truly believed that we were helping the S. Vietnamese govt. GGJohn May 2015 #117
Stop the spread of communism erlewyne May 2015 #126
My brother, rest his kind soul... malokvale77 May 2015 #137
Ain't it a tragedy that those that voted to send us to war GGJohn May 2015 #139
They never do GGJohn... malokvale77 May 2015 #142
Earlier I pulled out some of my old photos of friends I served with, GGJohn May 2015 #143
I share that downer with you. malokvale77 May 2015 #152
This a great post, and maybe the saddest great post I've ever read. man4allcats May 2015 #138
Recommended. H2O Man May 2015 #3
Until most of its veterans have passed, sarge43 May 2015 #18
Slight disagreement and that is by degree nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #77
This right here nadin... malokvale77 May 2015 #140
Exactly, Hubby retired from the USN as a Chief nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #144
Mitt Romney comes to mind. GGJohn May 2015 #145
And so does W nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #146
And W also. GGJohn May 2015 #147
Two movies that are worth watcing that sort of explain nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #148
You failed no one. Your nation failed you. The Vietnamese are a beautiful people. America's loss. Fred Sanders May 2015 #4
Fred Sanders, I totally agree with you. Bet you never thought you'd see me say that. rhett o rick May 2015 #103
I rarely agree with you, GGJohn May 2015 #104
Well said! nt City Lights May 2015 #108
John Fogerty said it best: KingCharlemagne May 2015 #5
I sent this to my brother TNNurse May 2015 #6
Day of Shame dpatbrown May 2015 #7
For me, it's a day of remembrance, GGJohn May 2015 #8
Well said. H2O Man May 2015 #13
Agreed dpatbrown May 2015 #26
Thank you, and I agree, GGJohn May 2015 #27
I'd rec your post if I could. nt cwydro May 2015 #39
Memorial Day began as a day to remember the Union dead who died to free the KingCharlemagne May 2015 #9
If you're talking about how corps. have used Memorial Day to sell their goods, GGJohn May 2015 #10
You and I may disagree on many matters large and small, but on this I believe KingCharlemagne May 2015 #46
GREAT POST!!! GGJohn May 2015 #47
Again GGJohn... malokvale77 May 2015 #149
My heart goes out to you and your family. GGJohn May 2015 #153
I thought that military service would end with my children. malokvale77 May 2015 #155
my lifetime dpatbrown May 2015 #29
The draft Rolando May 2015 #124
83, wow, welcome to DU! steve2470 May 2015 #128
No shame to those who served. Those who sent them, however... malthaussen May 2015 #11
Thank you!!!! eom. GGJohn May 2015 #12
The battle interlude in the long version sets up the impact for the last two stanzas. John1956PA May 2015 #55
I alluded to that in another thread. malthaussen May 2015 #57
No shame here.. My husband enlisted in 1969 mountain grammy May 2015 #14
Government dpatbrown May 2015 #35
agree.. mountain grammy May 2015 #37
Reinstate the draft, and we just get more warm bodies to throw into stupid wars Scootaloo May 2015 #90
I am 20 years old, and would be the first of the first to be drafted. F4lconF16 May 2015 #132
So us old combat vet farts wouldn't have a say on going to war or not? eom. GGJohn May 2015 #133
No. F4lconF16 May 2015 #159
That's bullshit. GGJohn May 2015 #160
I fully admit I could be approaching this the wrong way. F4lconF16 May 2015 #161
I didn't take it as disrespect. GGJohn May 2015 #162
I suggest an alternative. malthaussen May 2015 #172
Soldiers and innocent civilians who die so as to make rich people richer. nt valerief May 2015 #56
Welcome to DU, dpatbrown! calimary May 2015 #75
Thanks very much dpatbrown May 2015 #122
My Father was MIA Feb.1942 off Java WHEN CRABS ROAR May 2015 #97
I tend to agree with you Brainstormy May 2015 #118
Memorial Days and Veterans Days always make me feel weird. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #15
+1000!!! eom. GGJohn May 2015 #17
Well said. truebluegreen May 2015 #19
Spoken from the heart malaise May 2015 #20
I don't think you need to be forgiven... malthaussen May 2015 #28
Exactly 7962 May 2015 #168
"When Will We Ever Learn?" nt Duval May 2015 #36
Someone gave my husband a ballcap mountain grammy May 2015 #40
A few years ago My Favorite Wingnut took me to a wingnut restaurant Jackpine Radical May 2015 #45
That sounded so familiar Populist_Prole May 2015 #83
Was he an actual combat vet? GGJohn May 2015 #84
Helicopter pilot Populist_Prole May 2015 #86
That's weird. GGJohn May 2015 #88
You helo pilots were as crazy as they come. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #105
Luck my friend, pure luck. GGJohn May 2015 #106
My husband was a crew chief on a Huey.. mountain grammy May 2015 #123
Do you know what outfit he was with? eom. GGJohn May 2015 #127
1st Aviation Division, Army. In Vietnam 1970-1971 mountain grammy May 2015 #129
A Co. 101st AVN Bn. for me. GGJohn May 2015 #131
He says thanks mountain grammy May 2015 #151
I saw a TV documentary about a helicopter pilot, who took out a helicopter Joe Chi Minh May 2015 #167
I've always heard door gunners were even crazier. malthaussen May 2015 #174
There were always a lot of openings for that position. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #177
When I was driving slicks, GGJohn May 2015 #178
My dad was a rear gunner on a Mitchell (B25) bomber during WWII dflprincess May 2015 #156
You're very welcome. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #157
Sounds like mad Walter in The Big Lebowski. Joe Chi Minh May 2015 #113
That made me cry, Jackpine Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #42
Thank you for your service to the least among us JR. nt raouldukelives May 2015 #66
Thank you. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #69
+1 you hit all my spots. n/t jaysunb May 2015 #101
Thank you so much for writing this post. I have never felt comfortable telling vets "Thank you for rhett o rick May 2015 #109
If you have the time, why not stop & talk? Jackpine Radical May 2015 #110
I would love to stop and talk. Thanks again for the post. nm rhett o rick May 2015 #130
If you saw me in a store, on the street, at a function, GGJohn May 2015 #112
You do not need anyone's forgiveness jackpine. But, yes, thank you for serving in a movement to stop merrily May 2015 #164
I have been trying to say this ewagner May 2015 #16
I dunno, ewagner, but my impression is that a whole lot of the people Jackpine Radical May 2015 #23
Is it your impression that most combat veterans do not indulge this feeling... malthaussen May 2015 #59
The short answer is "Yes." Jackpine Radical May 2015 #60
REMFs... ewagner May 2015 #74
REMF GGJohn May 2015 #80
REMF a very unfair term DustyJoe May 2015 #85
Sorry, but I don't equate chopper pilots with rear area clerks, we were in just as much danger GGJohn May 2015 #89
Misunderstood Sir DustyJoe May 2015 #91
My apologies, I read your post wrong. GGJohn May 2015 #92
Definitely no Apology needed DustyJoe May 2015 #94
Thanks for the link. GGJohn May 2015 #95
... GGJohn May 2015 #93
.... DustyJoe May 2015 #96
And don't forget the mortuary guys. That was a tough job, too. MADem May 2015 #99
Ive heard it said it takes 10 in the rear to support 1 on the line 7962 May 2015 #169
yeah and while heaven05 May 2015 #175
I am in agreement... malokvale77 May 2015 #154
My dad joined for that reason - TBF May 2015 #73
My husband is a vietnam veteran donnasgirl May 2015 #21
I don't believe you need permission from the OP for your hubby to write GGJohn May 2015 #22
He doesn't need permission! MoonRiver May 2015 #24
I was in the BRO from 2003 - 2006 Victor_c3 May 2015 #25
. deutsey May 2015 #32
Just know that you're not alone. For one thing, there are a lot of combat vets on this board. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #33
My heart goes dpatbrown May 2015 #38
This probably won't help much, but I spent two-three times\week from 2001-09 KingCharlemagne May 2015 #50
Thank you for your contribution to trying to bring our service people home from an unjust war. GGJohn May 2015 #52
I was as much or more a failure as anyone on this thread, but I do appreciate your KingCharlemagne May 2015 #58
... stage left May 2015 #63
why the eff are they locking you up? redruddyred May 2015 #68
You're right, they usually don't. Victor_c3 May 2015 #98
I don't feel taken out on tho redruddyred May 2015 #181
may your heaven05 May 2015 #81
Heartbreaking to hear of your experiences. Dems to Win May 2015 #107
While Nixon opened up US trade with China while they were supplying weapons to the North Vietnamese. EndElectoral May 2015 #30
The main difference between conscripts and volunteers... malthaussen May 2015 #31
Anybody know if Zwoof is our old DU compatriot Jackpine Radical May 2015 #34
And I didn't take part in all those anti-war demonstrations to spit on soldiers. Paladin May 2015 #41
I don't think there were many actual, documented cases Jackpine Radical May 2015 #49
BTW, GGJohn May 2015 #51
Back atcha, Bro. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #53
For all who died from war... Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #43
If I could, I'd rec. this a million times. eom. GGJohn May 2015 #44
Me too Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #176
Thank you Dont call me Shirley. GGJohn May 2015 #179
My story is very nearly the same as yours rock May 2015 #48
Proudly Anti-War since 1967...when I went to college. Whittier College, Nixon's alma mater, libdem4life May 2015 #54
Thanking former military for their service started after 911 treestar May 2015 #61
You were more honorable than the country that sent you sir workinclasszero May 2015 #62
I would change "country" to "politicians," or possibly "government." malthaussen May 2015 #64
I see no honor in what this country did in Vietnam workinclasszero May 2015 #65
Then we differ. malthaussen May 2015 #67
No shit! Of course the vets are honorable! workinclasszero May 2015 #78
My point, which I shall retiterate... malthaussen May 2015 #170
I can agree with you that there was no honor what our country's politicians did in Vietnam, GGJohn May 2015 #70
Recent attempts at revisionism have challenged that. malthaussen May 2015 #71
I can only rely on my unit's experience and those we supported in the field. GGJohn May 2015 #72
I agree. Just as in any other war. Vietnam just got the most exposure. 7962 May 2015 #173
It all depends salimbag May 2015 #87
Celebrating Memorial Day does not mean embracing war. Buzz Clik May 2015 #76
neither did I heaven05 May 2015 #79
Pretty much the same for me, GGJohn May 2015 #82
I served for all the same reasons. jaysunb May 2015 #100
. GGJohn May 2015 #102
Wow! To me, that reads like a classic of war poetry. Joe Chi Minh May 2015 #111
K&R woo me with science May 2015 #115
You weren't alone, brother. There were thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of us.... Hulk May 2015 #116
... GGJohn May 2015 #119
Yup. Every day, every week, every month, until it was time ... 11 Bravo May 2015 #120
That big ass freedom bird sure did look good. GGJohn May 2015 #121
In Remembrance pinboy3niner May 2015 #125
+1000. GGJohn May 2015 #134
Didn't go to 'Nam but was drafted during the mess. Elwood P Dowd May 2015 #135
I feel that young people sent to fight in Vietnam were misused by the government, but Arugula Latte May 2015 #136
To a point I agree with you on the current military dflprincess May 2015 #158
That's true. I guess I have mixed feelings. Overall I understand the incentives to join. Arugula Latte May 2015 #163
I agree completely with you on that "thank you for protecting us" dflprincess May 2015 #180
Abbie Hoffman was right. Major Hogwash May 2015 #141
Thanks for trying. Glad you got back alive. Ken Burch May 2015 #150
Let's remember those who bravely chose to Not serve and Oppose the Illegal war billy_j2 May 2015 #165
My stepfather (when I as growing up) said he thought the bravest men were Joe Chi Minh May 2015 #166
I enlisted in the Navy in 1969 to avoid the draft and Vietnam. It worked, I B Calm May 2015 #171

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
2. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:09 AM
May 2015

Capt. GGJohn
U.S. Army Ret.
A Co. 101st AVN BN
RVN 1967-1969

Hueys and Snakes.

erlewyne

(1,115 posts)
114. I didn't understand why we were there
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:35 PM
May 2015

I was drafted. Infantry. By a quirk I ended up in Germany.
I got a letter from home about my high school class president.
Herman Gant. Only negro in my class. Conscientious objector.
Medic, red cross. Mom wrote that Herman was going to Viet Nam.
Her P.S. was Herman was killed. He lasted 1 day. (Our letters
would last a month between hello's and good bye's.

The Viet Nam war was a lie ... just like Iraq.

I hate war and violence!

Go Bernie

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
117. I enlisted because I then truly believed that we were helping the S. Vietnamese govt.
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:43 PM
May 2015

stop the spread of communism, yeah, I bought that fucking lie.

I lost many a friend in that useless war.

Your story brought tears to my eyes.
RIP Herman Gant.

erlewyne

(1,115 posts)
126. Stop the spread of communism
Mon May 25, 2015, 07:42 PM
May 2015

Yes, John, you were there.

I bought that fucking lie also.

Feels like we served together .... We did!

I was in Germany all of 1968. That's damned near 50 years ago.
We are a backwards nation.

Thank you, this Memorial Day was for Herman.
He would have liked to share it. The list is
so long.

Thanks GGJohn

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
137. My brother, rest his kind soul...
Mon May 25, 2015, 08:55 PM
May 2015

Spent 2 tours in Vietnam in the Marine Corp.

They took his soul, then his legs (agent orange) and finally his heart.

They didn't even want to spring for his burial. My other brother who was a Sargent in the Marine Corp had to plead for that simple honor.

Fuck the fake asshole warmongers who never care to sacrifice there own.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
143. Earlier I pulled out some of my old photos of friends I served with,
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:22 PM
May 2015

friends lost in combat, friends lost to ailments, friends lost to demons haunting them and friends I've lost contact with.
It deeply saddens me that we that I have lost so many comrades and we have this holiday because of wars.

Sorry, don't mean to be a downer.

man4allcats

(4,026 posts)
138. This a great post, and maybe the saddest great post I've ever read.
Mon May 25, 2015, 08:55 PM
May 2015

Thank you for your story about that terrible war.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
3. Recommended.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:19 AM
May 2015

A lot of my friends served in Vietnam. The OP is similar to what they have said over the years since.

In the past year, I've been to too many of these guys' funerals. At one, a friend said, "Huh, odd. Seems like half of 'the Old Gang" isn't here." It took me a second to catch on to what he was saying.

I don't think our nation has ever come to terms with that war.

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
18. Until most of its veterans have passed,
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:01 AM
May 2015

we can't talk honestly or objectively about a war, especially that one

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
77. Slight disagreement and that is by degree
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:16 PM
May 2015

IMHO we cannot talk about war objectively, period. Especially not now, when less than 1 percent actually fight them and less than 5 percent actually have any contact with the troops.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
140. This right here nadin...
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:09 PM
May 2015

Until those that make war have to sacrifice there own, that is not going to happen.

My grandson is a Petty Officer in the Navy. I am begging him to not take the fifth year option.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
144. Exactly, Hubby retired from the USN as a Chief
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:29 PM
May 2015

(I saw action somewhere else)... it is easy to talk how brave you are when no skin in the game.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
146. And so does W
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:33 PM
May 2015

and in his case connections helped. He should have been court martialed for desertion.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
147. And W also.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:36 PM
May 2015

Asshole was out partying while we were doing all we could to survive, at least daddy Bush had the balls to serve in combat in WWII.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
148. Two movies that are worth watcing that sort of explain
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:39 PM
May 2015

the conservatives serving in WW II. The first is from John Wayne, it was set in a fantasy (We think it was the marianas, but they could not tell), attack. The son of a well connected GOP Senator and his speaking parts are clear on the opinion of the conservatives and how this was Roosevelt's war. He was serving becuase Dad told him he had to if he wanted a career in politics.

Kid dies in the end... but

The second is Iwo Jima. The scene on the train with the two GOP young men who somehow got an exception was a way to represent the overall attitude. It was also a dig to those who applauded the war but never joined, I mean the Gulf War II. Director can be an asshole, and his monologue with a chair was very bizarre, but that scene is worth watching.

TNNurse

(6,911 posts)
6. I sent this to my brother
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:32 AM
May 2015

He lives in Canada. Well he is a Canadian citizen....for many years now. He made a good life there.

 

dpatbrown

(368 posts)
7. Day of Shame
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:37 AM
May 2015

Every year on this day, I read or hear many saying how these soldiers served to preserve my freedom. To me, it's a day of shame. Shame because our government sends these young people to far off places to die for oil or real estate. To me, it's sad to see how brainwashed the American people, who continue year after year, to believe these lies. Day of Shame.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
8. For me, it's a day of remembrance,
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:42 AM
May 2015

comrades I served with and and lost.
You may think it's a day of shame, but most vets will probably disagree with you, at least the vets I know and keep in touch with.
BTW, welcome to DU.

 

dpatbrown

(368 posts)
26. Agreed
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:20 AM
May 2015

I agree with you, " most vets would disagree". For me, that's the travesty of it. Don't get me wrong, I have tons of respect for the vets, but NONE for the politicians who lie to them and this country.

"Welcome to DU", thank you.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
9. Memorial Day began as a day to remember the Union dead who died to free the
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:43 AM
May 2015

slaves. That seems like a day worthy of veneration. What it has become in the years since, though, is something far more tawdry and cheap.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
10. If you're talking about how corps. have used Memorial Day to sell their goods,
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:48 AM
May 2015

then I couldn't agree more, however, for most vets and their families, it's a day of remembrance for those comrades we lost.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
46. You and I may disagree on many matters large and small, but on this I believe
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:26 AM
May 2015

we are in full accord:

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." (Emphasis added)

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
149. Again GGJohn...
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:40 PM
May 2015

I have to agree with you. I have lost one or more family members in every war this nation has participated in up until Iraq.

I am trying to convince my grandson to leave the Navy before that happens.

I would like to make a special mention of my uncle Freddy A Kvale. who died in a prisoner of war camp after being taken at "The Gauntlet" in North Korea. He was a member of the Minnesota Army Reserve. His remains have yet to be recovered.

Memorial day is not a good time for me.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
153. My heart goes out to you and your family.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:46 PM
May 2015


It must be hard on this sad day.
I can never understand why people say Happy Memorial Day, this is not a day of happiness, it's a sad day of remembrance.

When our oldest son wanted to follow his dad's footsteps, (me), and join the Army, I immediately took him to the VA hospital in Phoenix, AZ, and had him talk to the injured vets there, they quickly changed his mind, we were determined that the tradition of military service in our family was going to end with me.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
155. I thought that military service would end with my children.
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:11 PM
May 2015

Unfortunately my grandson wanted an education and thought the Navy would afford that.

I am of the opinion that they will screw him on that.

 

dpatbrown

(368 posts)
29. my lifetime
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:30 AM
May 2015

I was born in 1948, and fought four times against being drafted, to stay out of Vietnam. And for the American government to say that the communist were coming to San Diego if we didn't fight, was a perception many of my generation did not buy. In my lifetime, this government has NEVER been honest about invading other countries.

 

Rolando

(88 posts)
124. The draft
Mon May 25, 2015, 07:36 PM
May 2015

I was born in 1932 and fought constantly against the draft until I lost, in 1957, when there was no war. At least I didn't lose my life. I was a conscientious objector with no credentials: no religion that had been certified. I survived, unlike many others, but I am bitter about what most of the wars in my lifetime have done to this country. Communism, as it was portrayed, doesn't exist now. It died of its own flaws.

John1956PA

(2,654 posts)
55. The battle interlude in the long version sets up the impact for the last two stanzas.
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:51 AM
May 2015

Especially the last one:

In the morning they return
With tears in their eyes
The stench of death drifts up to the skies
A soldier so ill looks at the sky pilot
Remembers the words
"Thou shalt not kill."


malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
57. I alluded to that in another thread.
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:54 AM
May 2015

We forget that dying and being maimed are not the only price paid by those who fight in war, they must also live with the sorrow of killing and maiming others. Most of them would rather not.

-- Mal

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
14. No shame here.. My husband enlisted in 1969
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:51 AM
May 2015

He had a low draft number and decided he would do his duty as an American citizen and spent a year in Vietnam.
Our son enlisted in the Navy and spent several months in the Persian Gulf for HW's war.

While they are proud of their service, they both know the truth: War is a racket!

 

dpatbrown

(368 posts)
35. Government
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:41 AM
May 2015

No shame meant for the vets, only to those who sent them. Reinstate the draft, and many of the hawks (and liars) in D.C. would shrink like violets. Again, zero respect for them.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
90. Reinstate the draft, and we just get more warm bodies to throw into stupid wars
Mon May 25, 2015, 03:01 PM
May 2015

The draft was never in any point of American history, an impediment to making war. In fact the ability to force citizens to soldier actually made war more appealing, 'cause you didn't have to manage the resources. just demand more conscripts!

Advocating a draft is advocating for your children and grandchildren's death - which is why i have never seen a draft advocate who ISN'T too old to be drafted. Which is why I suggest an alternative.

Reinstate the draft, with no deferments allowed. and start with the last number pulled in 1973. You want a draft to make lawmakers shit themselves? Make it a draft that will send them to the front lines first. yeah, it would sweep up the draft advocates too, but they want it, so there's no harm in it I figure.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
132. I am 20 years old, and would be the first of the first to be drafted.
Mon May 25, 2015, 08:21 PM
May 2015

Physically fit and mentally sound--I guarantee they would take me (though I admit I would refuse, and would see the inside of a jail cell first). I, and other friends of mine, are strong advocates of the draft.

The reason we are able to continue wars elsewhere are because we continue to send our poorest elsewhere and the majority of us are able to forget about them. With a draft, the poorest will still be screwed more than the rich, but this time it forces everyone to remember exactly what we are doing. No more forgotten soldiers and veterans.

Reinstate the draft, make from age 18 to whatever you want, both male and female. No exceptions, period. My suggestion is then to make war democratic. Make the decision to enter war the people's decision--only those who may enter the war through the draft may vote.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
159. No.
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:48 PM
May 2015

In my opinion it should be those who take the risk that decide whether the war is worth fighting.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
161. I fully admit I could be approaching this the wrong way.
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:58 PM
May 2015

Just my thoughts on it. No disrespect intended. I think you're right, though.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
162. I didn't take it as disrespect.
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:46 PM
May 2015

Just for the record, I would vote no unless it was a DIRECT threat to our homeland.
There would have to be a very compelling reason, and I don't mean some bullshit that we have to fight them there to avoid fighting them here, to authorize troop deployments to foreign lands.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
172. I suggest an alternative.
Tue May 26, 2015, 08:17 AM
May 2015

All citizens should do two years of service, such as VISTA or the CCC, for the community and infrastructure, or in the military. Deferments should be hard to get, and not for college, which should be delayed until after said service. This will serve any number of useful purposes: providing useful skills to high school graduates, integrating people from all walks of life, repairing and maintaining the nation's infrastructure, etc... consequently, it will never fly, but I like to fantasize about it from time to time.

-- Mal

calimary

(80,693 posts)
75. Welcome to DU, dpatbrown!
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:13 PM
May 2015

Glad you're here. Blessings on this Memorial Day. But I've gotta say whenever I hear that cliche - "they're FIGHTING for our FREEEEEEDOM" it just makes me cringe. Unfortunately, they're not fighting for anybody's "freedom" but for freedom for Corporate America, and, in particular, Big Oil and all the advantages and shortcuts and wheeling-&-dealing and regulatory exemptions it can get away with.

 

dpatbrown

(368 posts)
122. Thanks very much
Mon May 25, 2015, 07:19 PM
May 2015

And that's the thing that is so aggravating to me, so frustrating. But then again Calimary, I think that until voters wake up, the military industrial complex will continue to have full control.

I agree with your comments. Think about how young people are being exposed to war, video games.

Brainstormy

(2,380 posts)
118. I tend to agree with you
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:44 PM
May 2015

and am generally bummed out by how much we exalt war. Washington, D.C., to me, seems to be one big municipal monument to past wars. And ironically, the incubator for who knows how many more in the future. You're right. It IS a day of shame.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
15. Memorial Days and Veterans Days always make me feel weird.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:52 AM
May 2015

I wrote this some years ago & posted it here back then.

Memorial Days and Veterans Days always make me feel weird.

Especially when someone says "Thank you for your service." You see, I was an infantryman in Vietnam, but I did not serve willingly. I was drafted, forced into a deadly form of involuntary servitude, and whatever illusions I might originally have had about the rightness of the war were quickly torn from me when I saw what we were doing to the innocent people, the sacred soils, the beautiful waters and jungles and mountains of that tormented land.

"No, don't thank me," I want to say. "Forgive me. Forgive me for participating in that awful event in your name. If you must thank me for something, then thank me for joining the movement to stop the war when I got home. Maybe thank me for the things I have tried to do for the castoffs of society--the mentally ill, the developmentally disabled, the emotionally damaged products of chaotic and abusive homes who have gone on to fill our jails and prisons. But don't thank me for going off to participate in the destruction of a foreign land whose residents never intended any harm to you or me."

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
28. I don't think you need to be forgiven...
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:27 AM
May 2015

... commiserated with, yeah. Hey, you did what you had to do to survive. The key point here, I think, is that you didn't make the rules. The onus lies on them, not you.

-- Mal

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
40. Someone gave my husband a ballcap
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:02 AM
May 2015

with Vietnam Veteran on it. First time he wore it a guy thanked him for his service. My husband honestly didn't know what the guy was talking about. He said, "do I know you?" I pointed to his hat and said "he means that." My husband was embarrassed and now only wears the hat to march in the parade to remember his buddies who didn't make it.

War is a racket. We all know it, but vets especially know it.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
45. A few years ago My Favorite Wingnut took me to a wingnut restaurant
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:22 AM
May 2015

filled with--well, wingnuts. You could hear dark mutterings in one corner about some demonic entity named "Pelosi," while at another table someone was holding his audience breathless as he recounted the latest wisdom from Glenn Beck.

At one table there sat this older guy with a Vietnam Veteran cap and various military-related trinkets and patches all over his shirt. It was like he was visiting royalty or something, there to collect his tributes from the others.

On seeing him and this whole scene, I felt an overwhelming sadness. Had nothing worthwhile happened in this man's life in the last 40 years? Has his whole ego structure solidified itself like a cyst around his veteran status? Why did he still need to feed on the adulation of these decaying, hateful beings?

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
83. That sounded so familiar
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:35 PM
May 2015

The same scenario: Wingnut restaurant, my hard-right father and hard-right friends...the conversation. One of them is a Vietnam vet and he's the most hawkish person I've heard this side of a Tom Clancy novel.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
105. You helo pilots were as crazy as they come.
Mon May 25, 2015, 05:08 PM
May 2015

I was a 1st Cav grunt & rode around in Hueys & Shithooks a lot. I saw the number of bullet holes in some of those choppers. I got no clue how any of you survived.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
106. Luck my friend, pure luck.
Mon May 25, 2015, 05:21 PM
May 2015

I guess it just wasn't my time.
Know how they determine if you're helo pilot qualified?

They show you this picture and if you relate, you're pilot material.



LOL.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
123. My husband was a crew chief on a Huey..
Mon May 25, 2015, 07:24 PM
May 2015

shot down twice, but quickly rescued. Thinks war is stupid. In most of his personal pictures taken of his buddies in Vietnam, the guys are giving the finger to the camera.. I asked him why. He said, before anyone took a picture they always said "smile for the folks at home." The only pictures where they actually did smile was when they were interacting with the locals. My husband was really impressed with the Vietnamese people he met.

He's always said, those people had nothing and we were destroying it. Heartbreaking.. Fuck war!

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
131. A Co. 101st AVN Bn. for me.
Mon May 25, 2015, 08:17 PM
May 2015

1967-1969.
We just missed each other
Tell your hubby, Welcome Home Brother.

Joe Chi Minh

(15,229 posts)
167. I saw a TV documentary about a helicopter pilot, who took out a helicopter
Tue May 26, 2015, 05:39 AM
May 2015

to go back and pick up a Vietnamese they'd had to leave behind, against a strict he was not to, (or they were not to; it could have been a blanket prohibition due to the scarcity of them at the time at that location).

He came under a barrage of intense fire, but somehow managed to save the other lad, without being hit. He said it was because they would have been so pumped up that the adrenaline would have affected their aim. If they had tried to shoot near him, they might have hit him!

When he got back to camp and the officer he reported to, bawled him out, he chinned him!

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
174. I've always heard door gunners were even crazier.
Tue May 26, 2015, 08:34 AM
May 2015

From a door gunner, of course. Who did three tours because he loved his work.

-- Mal

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
177. There were always a lot of openings for that position.
Tue May 26, 2015, 01:54 PM
May 2015

For some reason I never, ever understood, a lot of short-timer grunts would apply for door gunner positions for their last few months in country. I guess it's just amazing what rice-paddy leech phobia will drive some people to do.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
178. When I was driving slicks,
Tue May 26, 2015, 08:56 PM
May 2015

I felt a lot safer as a pilot than a door gunner, those MoFo's were crazy as hell standing in an open door blasting away.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
156. My dad was a rear gunner on a Mitchell (B25) bomber during WWII
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:27 PM
May 2015

Enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor, refused officers'/pilot training because he was all gung ho to get into the war. -- Got a couple Bronze stars and the Air Medal.

Came home a pacifist.

I think a lot of you guys who really saw how awful war is do - even if many don't say it out loud.

Thank you for saying it out loud.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
42. That made me cry, Jackpine
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:14 AM
May 2015

I'm so sorry. I forgive you and all who fought in wars, unknowingly or unwillingly. I honor your life. I honor all life.

This is what the warmakers and those who gleefully participate in it do not know:
honor life, all life is sacred.

Those of us who recognize this are enlightened.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
109. Thank you so much for writing this post. I have never felt comfortable telling vets "Thank you for
Mon May 25, 2015, 05:48 PM
May 2015

your service." but I certain wish to be respectful. I do want to say that I recognize what you've done and ask you to forgive us for allowing our government to do that to you and all our troops.

I would like to know what you think would be appropriate other than "I forgive you" which of course I can not say because it doesn't apply. How about "I respect you for your service."

I did march against the war, which I think did have an effect but not as much as Kent State. One of my bones of contention was/is that not only did the wealthy boys get out of the fight, but a lot of the high school jocks also. You see when it came time to fight, the jocks all had sports injuries that got them deferments will us nerds*, were perfectly healthy. The SS rated me 1-A.

*Yes, I was a nerd before movies made nerds cool and smart. One of the nerds I graduated with was killed over there.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
110. If you have the time, why not stop & talk?
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:01 PM
May 2015

See where their heads are at.

In trying to answer this, I realized it is a problem I have never faced. I just give the vets' Secret Handshake, say "Hi, Bro," and carry on from there. So I never really thought about it. Mostly I don't do or say anything to indicate my status, except to another vet. On those times when I get identified (e.g. by a friend introducing me or something) people will just say "Thank you for your service," and I say "You're welcome" and move on. It's not a big deal to me; I certainly can't speak for others vets.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
112. If you saw me in a store, on the street, at a function,
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:10 PM
May 2015

you wouldn't even know I'm a vet, I don't wear anything indicating that, but if I see someone wearing a vet hat, I'll nod and smile at them, sometimes even give a small salute and move on.

Telling someone thank you for your service or I respect you for your service is fine, some will acknowledge it, some will not.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
164. You do not need anyone's forgiveness jackpine. But, yes, thank you for serving in a movement to stop
Tue May 26, 2015, 04:46 AM
May 2015

the war after you got back from fighting it. And I'm so very glad you did get back.

ewagner

(18,964 posts)
16. I have been trying to say this
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:53 AM
May 2015

for years.....

Most of the guys I served with were there because they had no choice, or, more specifically they joined the air force because it was less likely that they would be shot at...because only a very tiny percentage of Air Force personnel ever saw combat....there were only a few "gung-ho" types who thought that by sitting behind that desk every day they were "fighting for our freedom"....generally, we laughed at them.

me? I wanted to learn how to fly and thought that would be the only way I could afford it and, what the hell, I was going to get drafted anyway.....ended up "flying a desk"...

I haven't joined any veterans groups...American Legion, VFW, etc...because there were guys who followed their orders and marched out into the bush every day...and put their life on the line...because they were told to...and some didn't come back...I don't belong in the same company...

When I see a vet who served "in-country"...I just give them a nod...to say "I understand"...and "I respect what you did."...

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
23. I dunno, ewagner, but my impression is that a whole lot of the people
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:16 AM
May 2015

down at the local VFW/Am Legion are re-living their Big Adventure, lying to each other, & basking in the reflected light of what they think of as their glory days. I have never been tempted to join, except to maybe bug them about their politics, and most of the other combat vets I know won't go near those places either.

This may be a totally unfair impression I have, but then I have always been more concerned with getting past the war than with re-living it to eternity.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
59. Is it your impression that most combat veterans do not indulge this feeling...
Mon May 25, 2015, 12:26 PM
May 2015

... but that it is mostly REMFs and the odd John-Wayne wannabe?

-- Mal

ewagner

(18,964 posts)
74. REMFs...
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:09 PM
May 2015

The first two letters stand for "Rear Echelon" and the second......I seem to remember......as something unflattering...

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
80. REMF
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:30 PM
May 2015

R-Rear
E-Echelon
M-Mother
F-Fucker

I ran into more than my share of those that were lamenting the fact that they weren't "out there in the shit".
I used to just shake my head in wonder at those gungho idiots.

Most of our ground crews weren't like that, they got to see first hand the holes in our choppers after a mission and knew they didn't want to "be in the shit".

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
85. REMF a very unfair term
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:39 PM
May 2015

I was a lowly grunt in an Airmobile Infantry Brigade and saw plenty of combat, there were reported to be 8 REMF troops for every grunt 'on the line'. So when their were 500,000 in country during TET '68 you can assume about 65,000 in combat.

May I say though about our much maligned REMF brothers

They processed our pay
They made sure we got mail
Sent us food
Transported us so we didn't have to hump it
rearmed us
Filled our cavity when the C rats rotted our teeth
Sewed us up when we got hurt

Many many a time after a rough firefight in dense jungle, down to our last few mags of ammo, Crats and water low, wounded writhing in pain on the ground and our dead brothers covered and laying in a row. We awaited for the whop whop of the Huey flaring in to resupply, rearm, bring the mail, take the wounded for help and get our dead brothers out of the jungle hell.

Rear Echelon Mother Fuckers .... my aching ass, these guys were heavensent when it counted.

B Company 4th Battalion 12th Infantry
199th Light Infantry Brigade
January 1968 - May 1968

&feature=player_embedded

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
89. Sorry, but I don't equate chopper pilots with rear area clerks, we were in just as much danger
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:54 PM
May 2015

as you ground pounders, I flew many a CGS mission, evaced more than my share of wounded and KIA, did resupply, transport, etc.
I was shot down twice, returned to base with shot up choppers, several hard landings due to battle damage.
Yes, they did keep the troops supplied, but they were not on par with the troops that actually went into the field.

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
91. Misunderstood Sir
Mon May 25, 2015, 03:02 PM
May 2015

I didn't mean the Slick Jocks

The REMFs that put together all the supplies, the ones that sorted the mail, filled the water bladders
and did all the mind numbing boring paperwork to get it all accomplished. Where would the grunts
have been without them ?

The slick crews in my unit at least were considered at par with any pounder
amongst us and I pulled more than one flight crew out of a flipped autogyrod hard landing in the trees.

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
94. Definitely no Apology needed
Mon May 25, 2015, 03:20 PM
May 2015

The 199th was a small integrated Brigade and the Air Wing of the Brigade was
not considered a rear echelon anything, they were right up there with the
rest of us.
Link is the 199th Aviation group.

http://signal439.tripod.com/redcatcher199lib/fireball.html

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
96. ....
Mon May 25, 2015, 03:30 PM
May 2015

Same welcome back to you Captain.

In the states before RVN I was in 504th QM 101st Airborne at Ft Campbell in 1967.
Ultimate High Alt REMF as we dropped jeeps and drums out of Hercules and Starlifters.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
99. And don't forget the mortuary guys. That was a tough job, too.
Mon May 25, 2015, 04:39 PM
May 2015

No one shooting at them, but they had to prepare the bodies for transport, day in, day out. And then, there's the people at the other end, who had to process the corpses for transshipment to funeral homes. That's a difficult job, even for someone who is psychologically prepared to handle it. Every body bag in every aluminum box, a life interrupted.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
169. Ive heard it said it takes 10 in the rear to support 1 on the line
Tue May 26, 2015, 07:59 AM
May 2015

Everyone has a job to do, but being under fire is certainly the toughest

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
175. yeah and while
Tue May 26, 2015, 09:21 AM
May 2015

REMF may have been an attempt at elevating the macho, all I can say is 122's made everyone pucker........especially in a small basecamp like I was stationed at. REMF???? Fuck that!!!

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
154. I am in agreement...
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:01 PM
May 2015

My father, my brothers, and my SO's father have all said that those talking of their glory days, had none.

TBF

(31,919 posts)
73. My dad joined for that reason -
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:51 PM
May 2015

he decided he would like to get out of his small town & he liked the water. He enlisted in the Navy. Still injured from that service, but he wasn't shot at. The only group he belongs to is Disabled American Veterans and he explains Memorial Day as "that is for the guys who didn't make it back". All the platitudes about freedom and service are to encourage patriotic support for the war machine.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
22. I don't believe you need permission from the OP for your hubby to write
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:14 AM
May 2015

a note, tell him, go ahead.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
25. I was in the BRO from 2003 - 2006
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:18 AM
May 2015

I was the platoon leader of 2nd platoon, A company, 2-2 infantry battalion, 3 rd brigade. I was on Iraq from feb 2004 to March 2005.

My war was Iraq and I was a fool to believe our military was actually for making the world a better place. For my stupidity I've been rewarded with severe PTSD (rated at 100% permanent and total by the VA) and I've spent roughly 5 of the last 12 months locked up in a psych ward. I lost 5 Soldiers under my command and I hate every day that I've made it back alive and they didn't.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
33. Just know that you're not alone. For one thing, there are a lot of combat vets on this board.
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:37 AM
May 2015

Most of us who saw action have experienced survivor guilt, as well as a lot of other issues. You can pm me or a number of others if you think we can be of any help.

 

dpatbrown

(368 posts)
38. My heart goes
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:57 AM
May 2015

out to you. You, and many others, were deceived, and that is morally wrong. Nothing but the best to you.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
50. This probably won't help much, but I spent two-three times\week from 2001-09
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:35 AM
May 2015

in the streets of Los Angeles and west suburbs, protesting against Bush and Cheney's imperial wars of aggression. I feel like I sort of sacrificed the best years of my working career to protesting. And I'd do it all again in a heartbeat. I was really doing it for soldiers like you and the Iraqi and Afghan civilians. But your post still made me weep this grey, sullen morning.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
52. Thank you for your contribution to trying to bring our service people home from an unjust war.
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:37 AM
May 2015

You have my deepest respect for your actions.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
58. I was as much or more a failure as anyone on this thread, but I do appreciate your
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:55 AM
May 2015

annotation. I'm still scratching my head wondering if I could have done anything more. I suppose I shall never know.

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
68. why the eff are they locking you up?
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:28 PM
May 2015

I wasn't under the impression that ptsd generally made you a danger to yourself or others.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
98. You're right, they usually don't.
Mon May 25, 2015, 03:58 PM
May 2015

Last edited Mon May 25, 2015, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)

I had a violent suicide attempt and I was involuntarily committed to the psych ward until they believed I wasn't suicidal anymore.

I love the reaction I get when I tell people about my problems. It's along the lines of "thanks for your service but your PTSD scares us and makes us uncomfortable". Maybe they should have though about that before they sent me to Iraq to spread " freedom".

-----Edit to add-----

I just lost my last job about 5 weeks ago. One of the things I lost my job for was the fact that people saw the suicide scars on my wrists and it made them uncomfortable. I have it written up in a letter from HR and my boss. I even told them "I'm sorry that the war you sent people like me is so troubling to you that you can't stand the thought that it could drive those who fought in it to try to kill themselves."

Fuck those people - and I even used to work for an agency in the federal government that prided Itself for hiring vets like me.

I'm really not trying to take this out on you or your post. This is something that I a very deep emotional baggage with.

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
181. I don't feel taken out on tho
Thu May 28, 2015, 05:52 AM
May 2015

I have ptsd too and am treated like shit.

people don't seem to understand that this is a manmade disaster so to speak.

like war and rape and domestic violence is shit that people create, and it predictably leaves scars. imo the stigma is in the same vein as the cruelty which created this reaction in the first place. that's how my therapist described it anyhow, "a normal reaction to an abnormal situation".

incidentally, "FUCK THOSE PEOPLE" sounds pretty legit to me, but I feel like expressing that kind of sentiment probably gets you called some names.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
81. may your
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:31 PM
May 2015

cross lighten as time goes along and that you will find the peace you deserve. I spent eight months in VA, just a way to say, you're understood and respected.

 

Dems to Win

(2,161 posts)
107. Heartbreaking to hear of your experiences.
Mon May 25, 2015, 05:41 PM
May 2015

If I had a magic wand, I'd use it to roll back time for you. I hope that doesn't sound too dumb. I sincerely wish that we as a country had never invaded Iraq and never forced you to create these memories that no person should have to live with.

I wish you peace and good health. I hope you are receiving all the support humanly possible to provide.

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
30. While Nixon opened up US trade with China while they were supplying weapons to the North Vietnamese.
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:30 AM
May 2015
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Nixon_visit_to_China#/media/File:Nixon_Mao_1972-02-29.png

April 30, 1975 the Vietnam War officially ended. For some like Z. Woof's friends - earlier than that.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
31. The main difference between conscripts and volunteers...
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:35 AM
May 2015

... is that most of the former know they are being screwed from the get-go, and most of the latter need to have some illusions punctured, first. Although there will always be a minority who love the whole idea of war (I went to school with a kid who wrote in his yearbook message that he couldn't wait to get to Vietnam and "kill 20 Cong a day." Never did find out what happened to him, but I suspect it was unpleasant for all involved). The volunteers of the present day may be in ignorance about the truth that General Butler exposed 70-odd years ago, but they probably learn quickly. The truth of "I didn't sign up for this shit" is something they have to face, deployment after deployment.

-- Mal

Paladin

(28,202 posts)
41. And I didn't take part in all those anti-war demonstrations to spit on soldiers.
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:07 AM
May 2015

I registered my strong and continuous stance against the Viet Nam conflict to do my small part in getting U.S. forces---some of my relatives included---home safe as soon as possible. I failed, as well.

Thank you for posting these comments kpete. I don't expect to read or hear anything more profound or moving, today.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
49. I don't think there were many actual, documented cases
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:33 AM
May 2015

of returning soldiers being spat upon.

There was one returning vet who was shot by a crazy woman as he descended the open staircase from the plane at SFO, but I think most of the spitting stories were propaganda meant to split the hippies & the vets. Sure didn't work with me; I got involved in the antiwar scene at UW-Madison immediately upon my return. (Actually my antiwar activities started when I was still in the Army at Ft. Hood after getting back.)

rock

(13,218 posts)
48. My story is very nearly the same as yours
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:30 AM
May 2015

Probably the most important reason was: I served so I would not be imprisoned by my government.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
54. Proudly Anti-War since 1967...when I went to college. Whittier College, Nixon's alma mater,
Mon May 25, 2015, 11:45 AM
May 2015

hung him in effigy. Yes, we protested the war, but most held the returning soldiers in much the same way as stated above. Most didn't have a choice, at the end of the day.

RIP to those who passed on, and Blessings on those who made it back.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
61. Thanking former military for their service started after 911
Mon May 25, 2015, 12:41 PM
May 2015

Maybe it should be limited to Afghanistan/Iraq vets. Or Gulf War ones would probably take it OK and WWII. But for Vietnam it should be more like "sorry you had to do your service."

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
62. You were more honorable than the country that sent you sir
Mon May 25, 2015, 12:46 PM
May 2015

God bless you for your sacrifice. My dad and uncles all served in the military, I'm an USAF vet and my brother died while serving in the US Air Force in a foreign country.

Not a combat death but that 23 year old kid never saw his mother again or his home and he came back in a flag draped box.

If you protected your buddies in service, you did a righteous thing. God bless all vets today.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
64. I would change "country" to "politicians," or possibly "government."
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:00 PM
May 2015

The whole country was hardly lined up in support of the war. It's a distinction of significance, since it is the disconnect between the rulers and the ruled that created most of the messes we've found ourselves in since WWII.

-- Mal

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
65. I see no honor in what this country did in Vietnam
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:21 PM
May 2015

We sent boys to die protecting a dictatorship we set up and left 10 years later.

Now the godless commie hoard they fought and died fighting are our good trading partners, just like communist China!

And all the capitalists pigs that made money off off their needless deaths are laughing their asses off as they count their money.

Oh they might take their hats off today and pretend respect yeah while they push for another invasion of Iraq...

I mean war is a great business eh? The MIC always wins and the poor kids always lose regardless of which side wins the war!

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
67. Then we differ.
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:26 PM
May 2015

I think it is specious to blame "the country" for the actions of the leadership. Certainly Z. Woof and the veterans who have posted in this thread are not responsible for their manipulation. They are due full honor for respecting their obligations and bearing the pain of the decisions of their rulers.

-- Mal

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
78. No shit! Of course the vets are honorable!
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:20 PM
May 2015

I am one, my brother died in service to his country, my dad was a WW2 vet and all my uncles as well a grand father that died in a WW1 camp and I have ancestors that fought and died in the Civil war.

I'm talking about the damn bastard MIC that the last decent republican president warned us about!

Those fuckers profit off of war and if none is handy they will make one up like Vietnam! OMG we have to stop the godless commies and then when the american public was bled dry they just start trading with the North Vietnamese like nothing ever happened between our two countries!

Oh and the red chinese commie hoard!!! Biggest traiding parter we got now! Try walking into a walmart and not finding anything from China! LOL

We are all suckers to capitalist pigs and the all mighty MIC!

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
170. My point, which I shall retiterate...
Tue May 26, 2015, 08:01 AM
May 2015

... is that those whom you condemn can not properly be called "The Country," as they constitute only a small faction of the people thereof.

-- Mal

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
70. I can agree with you that there was no honor what our country's politicians did in Vietnam,
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:29 PM
May 2015

but the vast majority of those of us that served in Vietnam, served honorably.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
71. Recent attempts at revisionism have challenged that.
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:47 PM
May 2015

Seen Nick Turse's recent book, Kill Anything That Moves? Guaranteed to raise your blood pressure.

-- Mal

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
72. I can only rely on my unit's experience and those we supported in the field.
Mon May 25, 2015, 01:51 PM
May 2015

But my firm belief is that most of us served honorably, of course there were incidents, but those were not the norm.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
173. I agree. Just as in any other war. Vietnam just got the most exposure.
Tue May 26, 2015, 08:20 AM
May 2015

of course, the bad always gets the press.

salimbag

(173 posts)
87. It all depends
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:41 PM
May 2015

Depends on where you were, and when you were there. I was on PBRs, and we had lots of " free fire zones ". War is a racket!

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
76. Celebrating Memorial Day does not mean embracing war.
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:14 PM
May 2015

It means honoring those who fell. Perhaps we can reserve our disdain for war for the other 364 days.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026726000

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
79. neither did I
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:23 PM
May 2015

I was to find out. I 1049'd to Vietnam because my father went on the beach in Normandy, was at Chosin Reservoir in Korea. I salute you. For doing what you thought was right. So did I. In spite of it all, welcome home.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
82. Pretty much the same for me,
Mon May 25, 2015, 02:34 PM
May 2015

family had a military tradition that ended with me, it was expected of the male members of our family to enlist and serve.
I put a stop to that tradition with my kids even though I made a career of the military.

Welcome Home Brother.

Joe Chi Minh

(15,229 posts)
111. Wow! To me, that reads like a classic of war poetry.
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:05 PM
May 2015

Last edited Tue May 26, 2015, 05:42 AM - Edit history (5)

A sublime subject conveyed with just the right, matter-of-fact, mournful simplicity. And what a photo to go with it! I know infantry have it the hardest, though mercifully not by my own experience. Very high casualty turnover in WWII, not to speak of the mortality rate. And sent back into action, if possible, when recovered.

Strange though, I think there's a lot of truth in Dr Johnson's saying: 'Every man thinks the less of himself for not having been a soldier. But then, I was never 'at the sharp end' in a war. I don't suppose words could ever be adequate to describe the full horror of war, but Rick Atkinson probably comes as close to it as possible in the latter part of Volume III of his account of WWII, entitled, 'The Guns at Last Light'. A brilliant, fascinating book, particularly from the viewpoint of the quotes throughout the book from a vast range of people.

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
116. You weren't alone, brother. There were thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of us....
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:43 PM
May 2015

..that did the same.

At times I'm ashamed I went. At other times I'm proud I went. But I am NEVER ignorant enough to believe that I ever went to protect my country, provide freedom, bring democracy, or any of that other bull shit that we have squeezed between our ears by the "big brother" that sends their loyal servants off to suffer and die for their selfish, greedy reasons.

I didn't make 365 days and a wake up. I lasted about two months, and I came home via Yokahama, where I was hospitalized for a month before I was sent stateside. What I witnessed opened my eyes to the horrors of war.

These evil sons of bitches that send young, brave and loyal men and women to fight their unjust wars should ALL be tried for treason, war crimes, and be publicly flogged; but we are a nation of ignorance that is controlled by propaganda from the media. A shame. I used to think it was the Soviet Union that was controlled. What a naive fool I was.

A sad day for those nearly 60,000 young men and women who didn't come home from that awful hell.

11 Bravo

(23,922 posts)
120. Yup. Every day, every week, every month, until it was time ...
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:48 PM
May 2015

Last edited Mon May 25, 2015, 07:23 PM - Edit history (1)

to hop on that freedom bird, was dedicated to no other purpose than to cover the ass of the guys beside me. (I didn't actually get to hop aboard the TWA tits and ass homecoming bird. Mine was a priority medevac that eventually landed me at Walter Reed.)
But here I am today, hale, hearty, and still grieving for those who didn't make it back.

Elwood P Dowd

(11,443 posts)
135. Didn't go to 'Nam but was drafted during the mess.
Mon May 25, 2015, 08:28 PM
May 2015

I was one of the lucky ones that spent my two years in the States. Some of my friends went over there, and many of the ones that made it back alive had issues that haunt them even today.

It drives me nuts when these idiot media guys, especially sports announcers, want to constantly push the story over and over about our troops protecting our freedom. I've heard that about a hundred times during various baseball games and races this weekend.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
136. I feel that young people sent to fight in Vietnam were misused by the government, but
Mon May 25, 2015, 08:39 PM
May 2015

those who have voluntarily joined the military in the past couple decades are somewhat culpable in their enabling of a system that has us invade other countries on false pretense and slaughter untold innocents to enrich U.S. corporations. And that's the cold, hard truth.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
158. To a point I agree with you on the current military
Mon May 25, 2015, 10:32 PM
May 2015

but let's remember that for too many joining the service is an economic choice (and shameful that it is).

For others, especially right after 9/11, they thought they were signing up to defend the U.S. - just like the men and women who enlisted right after Pearl Harbor. They didn't know they would be used to protect Halliburton's shareholders. And most who join are in their late teens or early 20s - not an age group known for wise decision making.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
163. That's true. I guess I have mixed feelings. Overall I understand the incentives to join.
Tue May 26, 2015, 02:06 AM
May 2015

It's too bad that we have a media that propagandizes any potential military action (and doesn't give any hint of the real agenda, which has nothing to do with "fighting for freedom&quot and a subpar education system and a low-wage or no-jobs environment for young people. That's the perfect storm for the terrible situation so many young soldiers find themselves in. I do blame people who further this "thank you to the military for protecting our freedom!" stuff that has been circulating particularly widely since 9-11. It makes it much more difficult for the real story to get out.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
180. I agree completely with you on that "thank you for protecting us"
Tue May 26, 2015, 10:44 PM
May 2015

I gag every time I hear it.

I've come to hate going to Twins games because of all the rah-rah military since 9/11. National holidays are the worse - I went to a game on the 4th of July three or four years ago and I won't go again on that weekend. It was like Mayday in Red Square and I know there are other people who feel the same way but no one seems to know how to stop it.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
141. Abbie Hoffman was right.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:12 PM
May 2015

I thought we all knew by 1968 just how fucked up the establishment was by then.
The MIC is even stronger today.

What the fuck are we going to do about it?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
150. Thanks for trying. Glad you got back alive.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:41 PM
May 2015

And it turned out that Vietnam never even really went "communist", as far as that goes.

billy_j2

(2 posts)
165. Let's remember those who bravely chose to Not serve and Oppose the Illegal war
Tue May 26, 2015, 05:19 AM
May 2015

I understand that we want to support those who helped us Occupy Vietnam. Some were drafted, some volunteered. Many chose to burn their draft cards, even lose their USA citizenship to oppose the Illegal war based on the Lies of the Johnson Administration.

They bravely said enough GI's being dead in a war of Jingoism and occupation. They wanted the war to end and the troops to come home alive. They too were brave beyond words in their acts of civil disobedience.

Let us not lose respect and admit the bravery of those who opposed the war on this day as well.

Joe Chi Minh

(15,229 posts)
166. My stepfather (when I as growing up) said he thought the bravest men were
Tue May 26, 2015, 05:29 AM
May 2015

the conscientious objectors. And he'd served in the Royal Artillery in Italy and probably elsewhere.

I didn't realise what fantastic opportunities I had to pick the brains of both my stepfathers about their experiences during WWII, especially my second stepfather. Not to speak of recording the yarns of an elderly Jewish neighbour who grew up in the East End (London), before the war.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
171. I enlisted in the Navy in 1969 to avoid the draft and Vietnam. It worked, I
Tue May 26, 2015, 08:08 AM
May 2015

received brother duty and was sent to the east coast.

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