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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWas the Colombian prostitute blackmailing the Secret Service agents?
I admit I haven't been following the story too closely, but I heard an interview yesterday that didn't sound right. The woman interviewed was apparently the one who drew the interest of hotel security when she didn't get paid.
Though I've never paid a sex worker, my eyebrows went up when she claimed that the agent(s) knew the price would be $800 a night instead of the $80 agents were willing to pay. She explained through a show translator that she used hand signs that night to make sure they knew the price beforehand. As I watched, I envisioned nearly one thousand dollars flying out the window for a single night with this particular woman and knew no one in their right mind would agree to such a deal unless she had some bizarre unknown talents.
It's my understanding that in Atlantic City $300 gets a first class escort, and this case was in a country where a dollar goes a long way, so why was this woman worth $800? She was surprisingly plain looking and would be hard pressed to find work here in the modeling industry. She was certainly no Sofia Vergara, and I suspect she was shaking down the agents for extra money when they foolishly let their manly pride cloud their better interest.
This possible blackmail is exactly why agents should not be allowed to partake in sinful entertainment in foreign economies (including gambling). The possibility that an agent may be blackmailed into a security breach is all too likely. This time, it was just a whore who saw an opportunity to make a few hundred extra bucks. They were lucky she wasn't selling them thousand dollar a gram cocaine as well.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
I'm pretty sure it's by the hour and he stayed there passed out all night LOL...
"Though I've never paid a sex worker", so you stiff them too
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)She explained that she told the agents in sign language the price would be $800 for the night.
Unfortunately for viewers, and possibly the agents, she joined her thumb and forefinger to describe the zeros, so it may have been a misunderstanding of the transaction.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)she said no way & that;s where it all got ugly..
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)As I mentioned, I'm not following the case closely. She said yesterday the price would be $800 for the night and the agents wrongly understood it to be $80.
In the interview she showed the sign language she used to define the price. Frankly, it was rather suggestive when she made the zeros, but I still believe she changed her price when she discovered who they were. I think she assumed they'd just pay the money to protect their jobs.
habitual
(1,590 posts)"...so why was this woman worth $800?"
ummm huh?
"...partake in sinful entertainment..."
sinful entertainment?
"...it was just a whore who saw an opportunity to make a few hundred extra bucks."
wow thanks for playing!
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)The profession goes back a couple thousand years and has always been a business deal where the customer surveys the merchandise and agrees to a price. Prostitutes put themselves in this position as a job requirement, so don't even try to paint me as sexist.
Had the prostitute been a gay man, my point and nomenclature would have been exactly the same. "Whore" would still be the proper term for someone who sells their services on the open market.
I had a feeling someone would pop up eventually to demand respect deserving a princess for women who sell their bodies, but my real point was that this one was dishonest as well.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Your real point was that since she was "just a whore" she MUST be dishonest, taking advantage of the poor manly men's pride to commit blackmail, and probably a cocaine dealer as well.
There is a huge and incredibly disrespectful difference there.
Yes, stating or implying that a sexually active woman is a lesser human being and/or a criminal based solely on that sexual activity is indeed sexist. And repulsive. Welcome to the two-gender planet.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)I wondered at the coincidence that she now claims her price was $800 a night while the agents understood it to be $80. It was either a breakdown in communication or she changed the price after the fact by adding a zero. Since the agents balked at the tab the next morning, I suspect the latter.
I really don't believe they would agree to $800 up front in a country where we know a dollar goes a long way. I'm sure there were other places they could have gone for a competitive price.
Describing a prostitute a "sexually active woman" is like calling Shawn Hannity an avid newsman.
Welcome to the real world.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)based on the fact that you, personally, found the price too high. Therefore the "whore" must be a criminal and a coke dealer.
Calling a prostitute a sexually active woman is what we in the real world call accurate. Calling someone a sexist when they use that sexual activity as the sole basis to accuse said woman of unrelated criminal activity is also accurate.
Own up, for crying out loud. This is humiliating to even watch.
DutchLiberal
(5,744 posts)Who/what gave you the right to look down onto prostitutes? So because they have a profession that you don't agree with, they aren't deserving of any respect?
Yeah, imagine that... expecting respect for a woman!
And I know that in brothels 140 an hour isn't exceptional, so why would $800 for an entire night (= 8 hours?) be so strange?
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)The episode was titled "Toy Whorey" and was about Stan taking his son Steve to see a prostitute in Mexico. In the episode, all the prostitutes were so individually disgusting Stan and his son ran to the sidewalk to barf.
After going through the wringer here for using the word "whore" in any context, I couldn't believe my eyes that the mainstream media was employing that very word to describe a hooker in a prime time show. Unless producer Seth McFarland is seeing his share of death threats this week, I believe it's much ado about nothing raised by a minority of easily offended individuals.
Maybe you'll want to start an email campaign against everyone from the Fox network to Hulu for airing such a degrading hit piece on good decent street walkers. It'll give you something to do beside tarring me as a woman hater for daring to use a thesaurus:
http://www.hulu.com/american-dad
DutchLiberal
(5,744 posts)And you knooooooooooow it!
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)that she was "JUST a whore" and therefore a criminal blackmailer and a drug dealer?
Just wondering.
You know them by the company they keep:
"I am down on whores and I shant quit ripping them till I do get buckled."
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)but exists to be the brunt of mockery. Much like Archie Bunker used words and phrases which were intended to portray him as bigoted, old fashioned and ignorant. A character in a fiction using a term is not 'the main stream media employing the word to describe the prostitute', the word is in fact used to define Stan as vulgar and far out of touch. His vocabulary and actions are not intended to be seen as examples of anything other than a self important jerk. The creators of Stan are saying negative things about Stan when he says and does such things.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Of course she must be a cocaine dealer too ... I'm surprised those poor, naive agents made it out alive.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)If they were doing their jobs and not exploring the seamy underside of Colombian culture, they would still have a job, wouldn't they? You can't blackmail an honest person.
Stop with the haughty straw man argument, and don't pretend whores are the epitomy of a good woman.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)I mean what are those poor secret service weiner men to do when 'the whore' swings her backside. red blooded and all, totally helpless against the hex of a woman.
your OP doesn't really prove anything about the incident but it sure says a lot about you.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)I can't believe a woman who sells her body to any scumbag with a few dollars in his pocket finds such sympathy here. Is there a polite term you prefer? How can you see my post as defending the agents?
Even worse, I strongly suspect this one was dishonest as well. My point (if you read beyond key words) is that agents hired to protect the president should not put themselves in such a compromising position, and even included gambling and drugs.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Why must you choose the most derogatory word to describe her? Tells me far more about you than it does of her.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)In the future I'll try to show more respect for women (and men) who blow strangers for cash.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)And you've shown how classless you are by further demeaning her profession. Only a misogynist would use that term. I don't know what you do, but I'm sure being a misogynist ass doesn't pay terribly well.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)and didn't even want to pay the prostitutes what they owed them for oral sex. What a bunch of fucking losers, who could even have gotten the President assassinated because they just had to have sex. Childish bunch of idiots, ruled by their penises. Disgusting filth, that's what THEY are.
At least the women actually earn their living that way. The men? What's their excuse for having sex with strangers?
Edited to add: I served on the jury for Johnny Ringo's post, in which the jury decided to leave HIS post calling the women whores.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)What, may I ask, does that have to do with how offensive the term is?
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)for a person who gets paid to perform acts that one would normally not do. Frankly, I think everywhere but DU it is.
The term applies equally well to media personalities who cater insincere support to issues and candidates, and men or women who perform sex acts they normally would abhor unless someone is paying their price.
I think many here who find it offensive are conveniently merging the word with "slut', a derogative term which implies a woman who enjoys uncompensated sex to the point that multiple partners are involved. I agree that the word slut is female specific and not a socially proper term, but whore is a generic description of one who sells themselves out to the highest bidder. Unless one fits the description outlined above, I don't see how the word whore offends. It's not even gender specific, and while I'm sure crack whores everywhere would rather be called "cocaine based sex technicians", that's stretching the bounds of political correctness and common sense to unbelievable lengths.
Either way, my original point wasn't to glorify the agents or comment on the Colombian woman's sexual mores so much as wonder whether there was blackmail involved. Now I find myself hoping that term isn't viewed by anyone here as racist in nature.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)When it's applied to media personalities, it's meant in a derogatory fashion.
No, no one is merging the word with "slut". If you don't know why "whore" is so offensive, you should really educate yourself. And if there was any doubt as to how you meant the term, you cleared that up by your flippant comment about blowing strangers for cash.
On edit: Christ, this really isn't that difficult. How about you put forth a modicum of effort and look the word up?
Noun:
derogatory. A prostitute.
Do you see that word "derogatory"? To someone with an ounce of intelligence, that should be a pretty big clue as to how the word is used.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)I originally thought you were implying that it was a sexist barb, and I took great issue with that.
Since whore is not gender specific, I guess you're just defending the sterling honor of people who choose to perform sex acts with strangers for money. I suppose someone is liable to do that and you have your reasons.
On edit:
The dictionary definition doesn't say it's a derogatory word for a prostitute, it lists two meanings. In the first case it would be like me calling my ex wife a whore. In the second meaning, it's interchangeable with prostitute. I was using the second definition.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I'm guessing this prostitute could run rings around you in the mental department.
And it's certainly sexist as well because no one calls a male sex worker a whore.
Yes, I'm defending the honor of someone you know nothing about yet feel fit to insult. All I know about you is that you have sex hangups which would be embarrassing to others yet you flaunt about freely. You clearly think sexy is naughty, most children have a far more mature approach to sex than you do. If you're comfortable being so classless and yes, sexist, then you go right on ahead and be yourself.
polly7
(20,582 posts)He had to double down to make her even ickier.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)As I'm sure he uses the term in everyday conversation for people whom he admires all the time.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Sincerely. Thank you.
There's a conspicuous absence in this thread of persons who would normally be shouting to the rafters about sexist terms. I'm offended by that too.
Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #42)
polly7 This message was self-deleted by its author.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I honestly don't know how to deal with posters like this because I don't know if they're truly that clueless or attempting to be insulting. Either way, by the time one is an adult, there's hardly any valid excuses left. And yes, I too notice the absence of those posters.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Type in: whore definition
into google and that's the first result.
If you're still trying to argue that "whore" is not derogatory, you're even more clueless than I thought.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)Every search result gave multiple meanings. The first definition indicates it is intechangeable with "prostitute". The second meaning is as a perjorative for a promicuous woman.
I didn't use the word in an offensive way, as in "Paris Hilton is such a whore". I used it to define a proffesion. Had I refered to you, or another DUer as such- or even called you "clueless"- I could understand your indignation, but I was using the word in the context of a self described prostitute. That is perfectly acceptable usage according to every dictionary I saw:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whore
Noun
whore (plural whores)
1. A prostitute.
2. (pejorative) A person who is considered to be sexually promiscuous (see also: slut).
2004, Dennis Cooper, The Sluts, page 250
So after he fucks the shit out of me, he tells me I'm lying about his whore not being Brad.
3. A person who is unscrupulous, especially one who compromises their principles for gain.
4. A person who will violate behavioral standards to achieve something desired.
1982, Daniel Hoffman,:
Vidal is at once more detached and more preoccupied with his own view, celebrating an aristocracy of sensibility constantly thwarted and ignored by those mere whores after fame, the statesmen and politicians.
1990 June, Mother Jones Magazine, volume 15, page 9:
By that time, Tejeda had already been accused of beating his wife, abandoning his children, living in sin with another woman, being a whore for the insurance lobby, and accepting bribes.
1997, John Irving, A Son of the Circus:
a shameless hacksuch a whore for the moneythat he wouldn't even lend his name to his creations.
1999 October, Los Angeles Magazine, volume 44, page 186:
I don't want to be a media whore," says Babydol. "I don't need to 'sell' my record it will sell because it's good or won t if it's not
5. A contemptible person.
1999 August, Rod Garcia y Robertson, Strongbow, Fantasy & Science Fiction, volume 97, number 2, page 4:
"Begone," Clare shouted. She could not bring herself to kill in cold blood. "Begone, or I'll shoot." # "Idiot whore," he shouted back. "You would not dare."
2000 Spring, Pete Hamill, The Fenian Ram, World of Hibernia, volume 5, number 4, page 72:
I don't need that Lamont Cranston to tell me. Every Irishman knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men. We've known since the time of that rotten ould whore, Elizabeth the Bloody First!
2003, Helen Kirkman, A moment's madness:
Saxon curses rang in her ears. Dane, they yelled, Viking whore. We will have revenge on you.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)It quite clearly is pejorative, and has extremely negative connotations.
Surely you've noticed what kind of people are labeled as 'media whores'.
In fact this term has been debated before as to whether it is an acceptable word to use here, even about 'journalists' who sell out to the corporatocracy. In the past the consensus has been that it is ONLY acceptable in that kind of usage, and NOT to demonize sex workers.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)Reread the dictionary definition above again and note the #1 entry. It simply says "a prostitute". It doesn't say it's a pejorative for a prostitute, it's interchangeable. Subsequent definitions cover derogatory usage such as "media whores". I used the word in the true sense.
You don't get to rewrite the English language to comfort your gender insecurities. It'd be like me throwing a fit because a diabetic says she has to prick her finger to test blood sugar (We have to banish that word!!).
My OP passed a trial by DU jury, so that literally puts your opinion in the minority.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You think the majority of 6 random people is the arbiter of truth? Or even that those who feel the word is offensive would even vote to hide it?
You're dull as a hammer. You do such a terrible job of hiding your misogyny, nobody is fooled by it. Do you really think that anybody is so fucking stupid as to think your "just a whore" is not an insult? That's truly only something that just an all around douche would believe.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)If you want to pretend the dictionary and a few random anti-censorship jurors excuse your hateful use of the term, you're not alone. This site is riddled with people who are intent on being as ugly as they wanna be. Thanks for making it clear there's no point attempting to discuss it further.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Once again, you don't get to decide how people view this word. It's offensive in EVERY definition. Even when people tell you they're offended by it, you tell them that they're not. That makes you an imbecile. I'll try to explain this like I'm talking to a 5 year old. You say that you didn't use the word in an offensive way. That's like saying that you didn't use the word "n****r" in an offensive way. Understand? No, of course you don't, you're still here trying to justify your use of the word "whore" to people who have told you countless times that it's offensive in EVERY sense. You're like those fucking idiot racists who try to justify their use of racist slurs and insist they're not racist. If you continue to use that word (and I fully expect you will), you're a misogynist. It's as easy as that. And by you continuing to argue about this, you prove you're not a very bright one.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)Perhaps you have insecurities about your gender, but my OP was subjected to a DU jury that found in my favor.
I looked the word "whore" up as you advised, and the #1 definition in every case says it is just another common word for prostitute in the way I used it.
You're having quite a tantrum for someone calling me childish, and referring to me as stupid when you have a hard time understanding a dictionary entry is stark indeed.
I'm done with you. go ahead and have your aneurysm over a stupid word that wasn't referencing you in any way.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Even as several people tell you that it offends them, you still don't care. You're a very unevolved being. Any decent person would like at the reaction your word causes and realize they fucked up, then act decent and apologize. You simply can't let go of your ignorant behavior. Nobody is fooled by your bullshit, once again, most children would have handled this far, far better than you have. But you just go on believing that when you said "just a whore" and women who "blow strangers for money" you weren't using an insult. I feel extremely sad for any women in your life. They deserve far better.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I remember an editor's meeting back when I first started out as a reporter:
"What story are you working on this week, Tires?"
"Oh yeah, the cops busted a bunch of whores tricking out in front of the Red Roof Inn on Route 4!!" (my managing editor was a woman, and you could have heard a pin drop)...And yeah, I had the 'well what am I supposed to call them?' conversation after that
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Unlike some who continue to use it AFTER they've been told how offensive it is. If you've used it, that's one thing. To continue to use it after knowing how offensive it is, that takes a very special kind of ass.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)The episode was titled "Toy Whorey", and involved Stan taking his son to see a prostitute in Mexico to force him to grow up and discard his childhood toys. His wife Francine was upset that her son would go to what she termed "a whore".
You can imagine my utter shock after being put through the wringer here and told that the word "whore" is unacceptable in any context.
Perhaps you can organize a nationwide email campaign against the Fox network, Hulu, and Seth McFarland for using that word on a prime time show. It'll give you something good to do instead of calling me out for consulting a thesaurus:
http://www.hulu.com/american-dad
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You've presented what's got to be one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. My god, that's the only offensive word I've ever heard uttered on prime time television? Yes, the term is MEANT to be offensive in that circumstance. That you're not able to see that just further illustrates how completely unable to get things you are.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)this mental midget thinks that saying "just a whore" is not offensive. Just so people can get a good grasp on your mental capabilities. Hopefully I can save someone the trouble I've been through.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)That it offends you personally is irrelevent if not puzzling.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Which would explain precisely why it doesn't offend you. You act as if I'm the only offended by the term. I refuse to believe you're that oblivious. But then again...
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)I think your math is off due a certain misunderstanding about the specifics of this type of transaction (as pointed out in post #1).
Also, in a lot of countries they often have different rates for tourists (for any type of service).
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)but in the interview she clearly stated that the price would be $800 for the night and felt cheated when they offered to pay only $80 after the fact. Since she doesn't speak English she had to use hand signs for both the customers and the interviewer.
If triple the going rate of a stateside prostitute is common for tourists in South America, then I've been laboring under a serious misunderstanding of third world economies.
I believe her price changed after she discovered who the customers were and figured they'd rather pay up than be exposed. That's blackmail and a good reason Secret Service agents should not be allowed to act like Rush Limbaugh when they're off duty.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)I doubt any callgirl would charge $10 per hour to a rich American tourist in a luxury hotel.
What probably happened is that the agent was blitzed on the local firewater, agreed $80 per hour, then crashed out for the night, and woke up with a surprise in his bed and a large bill.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Because like any smart sex worker, she sized up her tourist marks and correctly estimated they were able to pay more...For the same reason why I get charged 3x the cab fare in Brazil...
For exclusive, high-class services in the USA, (or if you need someone with a very unique set of skills), prices of $2000-5000 a night are not unheard of for the 1% crowd...But $80 for the night is just being a cheapskate fuckwad -- Their per diem for meals is probably higher than that...
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)If the woman feels she can get that amount of money in the transaction, then that's exactly what she'll charge.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)she got $2000 a night from her regular clients...Put herself through law school
JI7
(89,283 posts)official. he is also very wealthy .
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)You cast aspersions on this woman's looks (honestly, she looks about the same as Spitzer's escort).
You cast aspersions on her business acumen (yes, even women can size up a mark and negotiate a deal).
You cast aspersions on her choice of profession (perfectly legal in Colombia so why denigrate her with a pejorative term for her profession?)
And now you cast aspersions on her poverty (the relative wealth of Spitzer and presumably NYC) vs what the comparative wealth of Secret Service agents looked like to those in Colombia.
I would also presume the SS agents wanted to keep their affair quiet because it goes against their SOP for employment.
JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)At least you didn't focus on some side argument that I'm a sexist for daring to speak of prostitutes.
It shouldn't surprise that I never heard of a $2,000 hooker, but I suppose that includes a fee for silent discretion. I see your point that some smooth entrepeneurs may gouge foreigners, and I agree that may be what happened here. In the interview yesterday she said she used hand signs for $800 a night, but the agents were willing to pay $80. It was either a breakdown in communication or she changed her price when she discovered who they were. The former is a misunderstanding, and the latter is blackmail.
You made the best debate to my point so far.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)legalization drives the price up. Google the prices for Nevada brothels.
Of course, I'm just a whore. What do I know?
This OP needs a bottle of bleach.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)after she rendered services.
In Colombia, where prostitution is legal, that means the men were in breach of contract.
This isn't blackmail. Its a business transaction and the men reneged.
Your disgusting put-down of this woman ("As I watched, I envisioned nearly one thousand dollars flying out the window for a single night with this particular woman and knew no one in their right mind would agree to such a deal unless she had some bizarre unknown talents." is duly noted.
You don't know her. You don't know anything about her. She's clearly intelligent enough to negotiate a business transaction and take legal action when the other party reneges. That makes her pretty damn valuable right there.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)that never ends well
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)their new terms....
Iggo
(47,586 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,673 posts)I don't know that's what happened of course, but I pondered in the OP at the coincidence that she wanted $800 and the agents were willing to pay $80. That's how she put it in yesterday's interview. She didn't say they weren't going to pay, just that they wouldn't pay what she demanded the next morning.
I don't see why even the most arrogant of men wouldn't pay for contracted services unless they thought she was trying to take undue advantage of them after the fact.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)But I guarantee it never entered their minds that the woman would go to the police with her complaint, it's just not on the radar screen for an American law enforcement officer to think that a prostitute would or could do such a thing.
They got caught by a cultural assumption that they would have had an extremely hard time overcoming, that prostitutes cannot go to the police if someone cheats them.
I'd be willing to bet a hefty sum that this sort of thing has gone down before with the SS in other places where prostitution is illegal, including in the USA.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)to be blackmailed is the problem. That was their huge mistake. They should have known better.
So should other important men who have dalliances with the likes of Rielle Hunter or Monica Lewinsky, etc. Dangerous stuff that. Makes you subject not just to ridicule but to blackmail. Not smart.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Not sure if I agree she planned to blackmail these idiots though...
JI7
(89,283 posts)JI7
(89,283 posts)if they were they would be models.
who wants to have sex for money ? mostly the desperate. this woman is 24 and has a kid that is like 10 ?