if this is sanders campaign, i am out. they sold us out with this. $ proceeds lives and rights.

[seabeyond]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by TexasTowelie (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2015, 02:21 AM - Edit history (1)

this really says it all about the populist group. where their real issues are. for the last couple weeks i have been hearing a lot from them. blacks, women and gays, to the back of the bus. and they are using sanders face to present that. not at all what i saw with sanders. tell me, this is not part of sanders campaign.

they get theirs, and we get whatever is left over.

fuck. that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777544

EDIT.... it appears it was created by a poster for a group here on du, and probably has absolutely nothing to do with sanders. i didnt know when making this OP.

[elleng]

1. Who are 'they?'

Link?

[seabeyond]

8. i put a link in the OP. nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I don't get what you're saying, my dear seabeyond.....

[seabeyond]

7. i do not know if it is just our populist group doing this or sanders campaign. if sanders, i cant

support it.

it is a hit to the social perspective of our democratic party. adding in the old white man, who is the one really discriminated against in all his privilege and entitlement.

the populist puts $ before rights. that is what this graphic says to me.

[John Poet]

35. So,

are you deciding who to support for President,
on the basis of ONE graphic you found on the internet?

[seabeyond]

38. no. on much more. and this was just another part of the much more. nt

[Ken Burch]

70. The point is that Bernie is an older white man who doesn't ACT like an older white man.

He's better than either of the other candidates in that picture on any issue you could think of.

Especially since he will also fight for the working-class and unemployed people of all races, genders and sexual orientations-as the other two people in that picture never did).

[seabeyond]

74. they did not address any of sanders social issues. only their $. nt

[Jim Lane]

204. You're complaining that a 21-word caption didn't cover all the issues.

Even within the limits of 21 words, "entrenched power" encompasses money but also encompasses race and gender. As an environmentalist, I don't have any trouble reading it to refer to the entrenched power behind climate-change denial and environmental degradation.

Anyway, I appreciate your clarifying that it didn't originate with the campaign anyway, so there's not much point to trying to craft a similarly pithy alternative that will cover all the important social issues, along with economics and foreign policy.

[Cha]

188. I think she's saying.. that this isn't who Sen Sanders is. He actually respects Pres Obama and

can see the big picture..

I don't think he would be going in for this divisive shite. The President has a lot of supporters in the USA.. around the world too. No matter what DU looks like.

Bernie became a Dem because he can see the Big Picture.

[treestar]

3. Yep their newest savior is an old white guy

a very old, white guy.

[seabeyond]

4. i like sanders. i could support him. i am not gonna support the whiny privileged entitled white man

mentality.

sanders is not this, as far as i know.

[appalachiablue]

72. FDR was an old white guy, Thurgood Marshall an old black man. Julian Bond is still going strong,

so is Rep. Elijah Cummings. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Huckabee, Ben Carson and Michelle Bachman are younger so they might be better saviors? Jim Webb will be 70 in 2016 but is unelectable. Jury is still out on O'Malley although he isn't excluded yet.

[pnwmom]

177. FDR was 51 when he took office, not 74 or 75, as Sanders would be. 51 is young for a President. n/t

[merrily]

108. Not much older than Hillary and this is an ageist post.

Coming from people who draw conclusions about racism or sexism from purely political comments, it sure hasn't taken long for their purely ageist comments to kick in.

[BeanMusical]

211. I totally agree. That post is nauseating.

[merrily]

213. Thanks for the support.

[Comrade Grumpy]

5. I would bet this is not official campaign material.

But now I'm confused:

Are you mad at the populist group?

Are you mad at the Sanders campaign?

Did either one of them produce this image?

[seabeyond]

12. i am asking where it comes from. it is in the populist group. at first, i thought it sander

campaign until i realized it was in tat group. now i wonder. and i ask.

[dixiegrrrrl]

31. If it does not say it is approved by Sanders, then it is not from him.

I see no ..."paid for by......sanders and I approve this message" stuff that is on legit material.

[seabeyond]

99. i have taken the time to try to explain it to you. you are not listening, or you do not care.

so i am done. enough people are aware.

[Ken Burch]

113. On edit...look, you were right to be offended by the image.

I don't think it was intended in the way you took it, but it caused hurt, and therefore failed in its intent and should be removed by the person who posted it.

Please know it wasn't Bernie's doing, though. He's gonna declare his candidacy tomorrow...no way he'd let something this off-the-mark and polarizing go out with his own approval.

Those who use humor for political ends have to be wise enough to run it by people before they go public with it. This person didn't, and a lot of people have been hurt and offended for no good reason.

[seabeyond]

116. you edited, so i am too.

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2015, 02:31 AM - Edit history (1)

[JI7]

6. wow, whoever the fuck did this is not doing Sanders any favors and i'm sure Sanders

would never be ok with this.

[seabeyond]

15. i would not think sanders would be ok with it. it is such a slap to so many of us,

in the democratic party. a party that counts on our vote.

[Bonobo]

26. Very dishonest OP if you KNOW this is not from the campaign.

You really should self-delete if you want to preserve your image as a fair arbiter of truth.

[seabeyond]

37. i wont delete. it is on du and being promoted as sanders campaign. it is wrong. and i am HONEST

enough to realize i needed to add an edit, to clarify. you are welcome. it stays so every one sees what some on du thinks about the rest of us.

[Bonobo]

40. Your edit is insufficient. You create the false impression that it is from the Sanders campaign.

If it is from a DU'er, why not say that in your subject line?

[seabeyond]

44. i really do not give a flyin fug if you do not like it. alert. or better? alert on the Op that

put it on du in the first place.

[Bonobo]

47. And I don't care if you care or not. Won't stop me from giving my opinion, though. nt

[merrily]

117. Exactly. Leaving up the OP when you know it's false is nothing but bs.

Soon, it'll be gospel on this board that Sanders, the old white guy, is racist and sexist.

[seabeyond]

120. what is false? that i am a supporter angry, confused, bothered, questioning? why arent you telling

the group to take the shit down. my post clearly shows i THOUGHT it might be sanders, maybe not, where the hell is it from.

this is on DU. in populist forum. if it is so bothersome, why are you not asking them to delete?

[merrily]

134. Why are you asking? My post already said what is false.

Why arent you telling the group to take the shit down.

You can tell them as well as I can, which would be by post or pm. I am saying your OP is deceptive and it is. Not taking it down is on you, not on me or anyone else.

[seabeyond]

77. entrenched power. wallstreet/corporate. this group snarks at sjw with scorn. that is all the rest

of us and they have told us plenty and often, we do need to go to the back of the bus. if you have not been in the discussions the last couple weeks, then i cant help you.

[Ken Burch]

86. No he doesn't-and Bernie would never use the "sjw" slur.

Why do you assume that fighting against corporate power means abandoning the fight against racism, homophobia and sexism?

Do you believe that fighting for what you call social justice has to mean letting Wall Street-an institution that NEVER fights racism, sexism, and homophobia-off the hook?

How do you parse that out?

You're smearing Bernie now-and the image you're attacking isn't even from his campaign.

[seabeyond]

98. because i have been battling with these people for the last three weeks over this issue while they

tell me my issues are minor.

no. i do not think sanders is like that, hence my full support of him since BEFORE he said he would announce. i am talking about the people that run around du, telling us women and gays and blacks to get in the back of the bus.

you have not participated in the many many threads? that is not my problem. i have. i saw this. i knew exactly what they were saying. i did not know where it came from. then, i realized where it came from. from the populist group on du, created by one of them and supported by others. now, du can see what these people are saying, IF they want.

or people can make excuses, giggle, validate and justify, while the rest of us continue to address it over the next year and half.

[Bonobo]

104. Doesn't justify your misleading OP title. Not. One. Bit. nt

[seabeyond]

115. nothing misleading. it is the reaction of a sanders SUPPORTER seeing this shit. maybe we might all

consider how we effect garnering a support base.

ya think? oh wait, no.... you will just bring it back on me.

[Ken Burch]

124. No one should tell you that your issues are minor, I agree.

I condemn the people who said they were.

Possibly, what some of them meant to say was that those causes, crucially important as they are, aren't the ONLY ones that matter, and that they don't justify supporting politicians who are progressive on those issues but right-wing on others(as Obama and HRC are on economic issues).

You should accept that the fight against corporate greed and dominance is equal to them in importance, since it affects most of the people in the groups whose causes you prioritize.

Most women are working-class. So are most people of color. So are quite a lot of LGBTQ people(want a tough life? try being gay and working-class.)

And huge numbers of people in all of those groups are poor...a significant number are homeless.

The point is that the fight against greed and economic equality is just as important as the fight against hate.

We need to join together to fight for justice for ALL.

So Bernie Sanders(whose campaign, btw, did not create that image you're upset about)is not your enemy and he and his supporters can be trusted on the issues you care about as much as any other campaign can be...if not more.

If you were disrespected by anyone, you shouldn't have been. But it isn't Bernie disrespecting you, or his campaign.

I hope we can work past this.

[seabeyond]

129. sander supporter here and for a reason.

i know this argument. i have been in it the last 3 weeks. i support sanders cause i get all my wants. including the economic issue.

hence the issue with what you say is a cutsey little giggle. i side with sanders because of the economic issue, over a clinton, who would be a first woman in office.

do not throw that fuckin swj bullshit in my face, as i am wlaking away from voting for a woman, because the economic is important to me.

[NYC_SKP]

136. I will let you know what the jury results are, seabeyond.

I voted not to hide your reply here, #129

[seabeyond]

143. thank you. i was talking about a graphic throwing the swj jab, not ken. but, thank you. nt

[Ken Burch]

137. Wasn't me throwing it...nor Bernie...and really, I think whoever put it up there blew it.

The joke didn't work. An ironic comment was intended, but it didn't read and ended up backfiring. Whoever put it up should take it down.

I really hope you don't hold it against Bernie himself, though. He would not have been tone-deaf enough to let his own campaign put this out.

[seabeyond]

141. not you throwing the sjw jab, the graphic. nt

[Ken Burch]

144. And that's on the idiot who put the graphic out...not Bernie.

I join you in condemning the idiot.

We should all be better than that.

[seabeyond]

151. that is all i am saying. people have got to think twice when they put crap up in sanders name.

my biggest issue is women. i admit it. they are my top concern right now with the supreme court. i am also very concerned with the economic issues. i am not supporting a woman, the first pres. that is a big thing for me. i want to see what sanders has and what develops.

then to come across this crap, before sanders has even declared, it is a big deal to me.

i have to walk a tight balance here, but i will not participate in that kind of shit that is on the graphic. i doubt i am the only one.

[Ken Burch]

156. Fair enough.

If the identity of the person who created the image is found, that person should not be permitted to be part of the Sanders campaign, at least not without a big public apology(assuming it was actually a Sanders supporter who did it-could just have been some sort of internet wiseass, and you know how people get out here in "the tubes&quot .

[Luminous Animal]

184. You are not saying any such thing. Your OP says Sanders CAMPAIGN said it. Stop being coy.

[seabeyond]

187. you said something about honest. " Your OP says Sanders CAMPAIGN said it."

no. i did not say sanders campaign said it.

i said, IF this is sanders campaign, i am out.

if they are campaigning, like what i have learned from the populist, i was out of his camp.

for a flash there, i thought sanders campaign was running under the populist of what i have been hearing and learning here on du.

no. it did not sound like sanders. he is not divisive. now he is stepping in a pres race. how the fuck do i know he is going to proceed. this populist message gets lots of support on du.

hence.....

me QUESTIONING it.

now. i am off to bed.

[Luminous Animal]

199. I am not stupid and neither are you. We both know what is going on here.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN. Enjoy your meager recs and better luck next time.

[Number23]

171. I agree. I don't get that bullshit vibe from him at all. His fans here, on the other hand...

[freshwest]

207. +1

[Barack_America]

9. You're out because he's an old white guy?

Or because he is unarguably to the left of the other candidates pictured?

I'm a bit baffled by your post. Maybe I'm just not picking up the sinister tone you seem to find in the comparison.

[Jamaal510]

203. The graphic is

insinuating that Sanders is the only person out of that trio who has been populist and cares about ordinary Americans, and it brought up totally irrelevant factors such as race and gender when pointing out how pure the 3 of them are. That's what I found messed up about it, at least.

[Fumesucker]

10. Well, Hillary *is* the candidate of hard working white people...

So I guess Hillary is Bernie's candidate.

[SMC22307]

11. What in God's name are you saying?

I need someone -- always -- to translate your posts.

[Bonobo]

16. I think this might help.

"Proceeds"> she meant "precedes", but the actual word she wanted was probably "supersecedes". That still wouldn't make it right grammatically, but it is close I think.

[SMC22307]

24. Thanks for the effort. It reads as gobbledygook...

and I don't care enough to try and decipher it.

[JTFrog]

25. Why in God's name are you so rude? n/t

[Scootaloo]

49. In summation...

[pa28]

95. Sometimes I wish I spoke wharggarbl.

Seven DU'ers recommended this post so maybe they could help us out with a translation.

[Bonobo]

13. You were "in" before? nt

[seabeyond]

17. yes. nt

[Bonobo]

19. As a poster says below, this just seems like a random thing created by a netizen.

I would bet $1,000 it is not from the campaign.

So why the knee-jerk response?

[morningfog]

14. There is nothing that suggests it is from the campaign. That is not Sanders' style.

That is just internet nonsense.

[seabeyond]

18. i do not think it is sanders either. thanks. nt

[seabeyond]

22. this is on du. are we not allowed to talk about the political primary on du? might look at all the

threads discussing du politics. tell me how many times you have jumped on the many threads calling out meta

not ONE

[seabeyond]

41. what is so damn hard. the countless threads in gd talking about du. you come on my OP whining meta

[seabeyond]

55. you about meta. duh. backing off that now you realize there are a number of OPs and you said nothing

and regardless of a safe haven, we both clearly know they follow the same rules, and they are still a part of the democratic underground, not the populist underground.

[geek tragedy]

21. Don't judge a candidate by his most obnoxious

supporters.

[seabeyond]

27. wen i put this up i did not know where it came from. it appears to be from our populist group.

i didnt know that.

i think it is time to step back and let everyone settle before i decide where i belong. cause it is not this graphic, for sure.

[geek tragedy]

30. Look for the campaign logo if not there

Just an amateur photoshop then.

Deep breaths.

[Scootaloo]

52. You seem exceedingly quick to break out the torches and pitchforks.

C'mon seabeyond.

[seabeyond]

56. yes scoot, because i have only been addressing this for the last three weeks. $ takes precedent

over social issues.

this is all just fuckin out of the blue, totally out there for me. one little little thing to get bothered about.

silly SJW's. right?

[Scootaloo]

58. You were willing to assume the image was from Sanders' campaign

And from there take leaps and bounds to declare how godawful Sanders and his supporters are.

[seabeyond]

60. IF it was from... does NOT sound like sanders. ya. i made that assumption, not.

tell me this is not from sanders campaign.

i am all over taking the leap of assumptions in that OP scoot claiming sanders did it.

[seabeyond]

61. and why are you on my ass that i show a graphic off DU? why are you not addressing the people that

cheer it, presenting sanders in a crappy manner?

[Scootaloo]

69. 'Cause you're using it to attack?

Because you started a brand new thread to tear into those awful Sanders supporters, instead of bonking the poster who provided the image upside the head?

[Comrade Grumpy]

32. Or we'd all be in trouble. n/t

[JaneyVee]

23. This has to be some RW bullshit that has no place on DU.

[seabeyond]

28. you would think it would be considered rw, but we have our own. nt

[Bonobo]

42. Well you are certainly helping to spread it!

BTW, whatever Group it may come from, the blame lies on the person who posted/created it.

I have never seen it. I am against it. And Groups do not create memes or photoshop crap together.

[betsuni]

29. Another jab at "social justice warriors"

Isn't it?

[seabeyond]

46. exactly. nt

[freshwest]

208. +1.. But I don't believe Sanders would go with those words, ever. n/t

[Hutzpa]

33. lol

this is just ridiculous.

[Raine1967]

36. This is NOT the Sanders campaign.

ignore that noise.

[seabeyond]

48. i wont ignore this noise. i will not trust these people when it comes to anything about sanders

in the future.

[Ed Suspicious]

169. You're working way too hard right now. Take a break.

[stage left]

39. This meme or whatever

is just not Senator Sanders style. I don't think he would approve.

[one_voice]

43. The fact it's not from the Sanders campaign...

doesn't make it any less divisive. It doesn't belong on DU. It's not ironic, cute, or weird. It's meant to divide.

[seabeyond]

51. correct. nt

[freshwest]

209. +1. And doing a damned good job of it, too. n/t

[Bonobo]

210. With plenty of help! nt

[cyberswede]

45. It's not even a good photoshop job.

It *is* supremely stupid, though.

[appalachiablue]

50. There is a point to be stirred up by this post, which is disingenuous, unverifiable & disruptive.

Old white guy, indeed, like FDR & many others. Then how about Michelle Bachman or Ben Carson instead? Better?

[daleanime]

53. Don't know where that came from....

but it's not getting much support and Bernies record on Social Justice Issues speaks for itself.

[KMOD]

59. The person who posted that, is clearly not supportive of Bernie Sanders

Their message is meant to be divisive.

Don't fall for it.

[seabeyond]

63. i see that. and i wondered even while making the OP. hence, saying didnt sound like sanders.

regardless.... du as to be aware of this shit and callit, if noting else as a sander supporter saying this is unacceptable.

[KMOD]

126. I think the majority of DU is aware of this crap.

Most are ignoring it. I too am a big believer in calling stuff out instead of ignoring, but for the most part, that particular post is being ignored and dismissed by most, and most notably by Bernie Sanders supporters.

I think most are fed up with the nonsense. I don't see many people feeding that particular one.

[Number23]

172. "Their message is meant to be divisive." That truly could not be more obvious.

[Katashi_itto]

62. ....uh yeah

[seabeyond]

65. so many people on my ass for a fail, as i at least ASK. yet you do not go after those putting this

shit on du

telling

[Katashi_itto]

79. 1.a. Why should I care about your position?

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2015, 01:17 AM - Edit history (1)

2. In all these years, I don't remember more than a single time you ever shown me the least courtesy.

2.A you already know its not from the campaign. 2.b So it's the usual screaming look at me "I am offended"

3. Based on 2.b I don't even like you. So see #1.a.

[seabeyond]

81. whatever

[Katashi_itto]

84. Someone has a sad.

[seabeyond]

88. you are the one proclaiming the hurt feelings cause i am not "nice" enough for you.

[Katashi_itto]

110. See #1 of my first post.

[smokey nj]

64. Since you admit this didn't come from the campaign,

you should delete your post. Why smear a man whose record on social justice is impeccable?

[seabeyond]

67. me delete? how about going after the people on DU promoting this shit doing the damn smearing. nt

[smokey nj]

78. I wouldn't have known this thread existed if you hadn't posted it

here. So you took something ugly, most of the responses to the thread were negative, and you dragged it here where more people would see it. Why? What purpose did that serve?

[seabeyond]

82. so, we just bury our head in the sand, do not look, do not see and all is good.

no

[smokey nj]

103. Head in the sand about what? A jerk on the internet who

posted an offensive meme? You didn't expose Bernie Sanders as a racist and sexist, because he isn't, you exposed a jerk in the internet. Congratulations.

[seabeyond]

118. DU. a poster, or as you say, a jerk on DU posted it. nt

[smokey nj]

121. Yes, and?

[BainsBane]

102. Once again we see calling out bigotry

is worse than bigotry itself. You don't exactly help the cause with this kind of response.

[Bonobo]

106. Utter nonsense. Sanders supporters object to the misleading impression given about the campaign.

Not an unreasonable objection, is it?

[smokey nj]

111. No you saw someone defending an honorable man

with an an impeccable record on civil rights and social justice from a baseless smear.

[BainsBane]

146. The OP doesn't attack Sanders

It addresses the meme posted by Duers. I saw your post in that thread. You don't raise concerns about the meme itself but insist some are "using it" to smear Sanders. The meme itself doesn't concern you at all. Seabeyond is right on with this post. If anyone is going to sink Sanders campaign, it's his reactionary supporters like the ones on this site. Sanders may have an impeccable social rights record. The same, however, cannot be said for some of his supporters.

[smokey nj]

154. The subject line does in fact implicate Bernie Sanders.

And the other stuff you posted is just bullshit you pulled out of your ass. You don't know anything about me. By the way the meme wasn't even posted in the Bernie Sanders supporters group, that's why I didn't see it.

[seabeyond]

123. seems to be. thru out the thread. demand i delete. and no one is bothered it sits in a group.

totally amazing.

[BainsBane]

131. I wish I could say I found it amazing

but I have come to expect very little. The problem is not the bigoted meme, but that you have the nerve to question it. If they found that meme offensive, they would tell that OP to self delete. Instead, it is your concern that is offensive to them, just as we have been told time and time again that speech about women's rights, feminism, and white privilege is offensive. Some here share with the GOP a determination to "take the government back," and you are throwing a wrench in that effort.

[smokey nj]

147. No the problem is that she's using it to baselessly smear

Bernie Sanders. She doesn't want to delete it, fine, but she could at least show some class and edit the subject line to remove his name and the implication that it's associated with his campaign.

[seabeyond]

155. that subject line is a SUPPORTER of sanders seeing this shit. this is the repercussion of putting

offensive shit up. supporters will walk.

[smokey nj]

161. If she were truly a supporter of Bernie Sanders, she would have

known he had nothing to do with it. Bernie's record on social justice is one of the reasons I support him.

[BainsBane]

157. You really are something else

She doesn't need to smear Sanders. His so-called supporters are doing that already.

[smokey nj]

175. I smeared Bernie Sanders by politely defending

his record and did so without attacking either the poster or the other candidate or that candidate's supporters? Ok.

[Cha]

214. No, she shouldn't "delete".. she's not smearing Bernie.. those who like this racist graphic are.

[Ken Burch]

66. Totally wrong.

It's just that people of color(and women who aren't millionaires)have their champion in Bernie.

And Bernie has been more LGBTQ friendly than either Obama or HRC.

This image is progressive and funny.

The real issue here is that HRC's candidacy is not feminist(it can't be while supporting militarism and "free trade&quot and she can't really be trusted on LGBTQ issues after her Nineties association with DOMA and DADT.

Bernie is the people's candidate...fighting for women, people of color, LGBTQ people, AND working and impoverished people of all races, genders and sexual orientations(and the last group I listed are the people no other candidate cares about).

[seabeyond]

71. the words in the message is all about the working people, wallstreet. the message is a jab at

social justice warrior whic is absolutely an insult to all sanders represents.

no. for those of us that have been told repeatedly by this group their priority has precedence over all of us, there is nothing funny about it. maybe white, hetero, men can get a giggle out of it.

[Ken Burch]

80. You don't have to choose between fighting for social justice issues and fighting against Wall Street

There are no progressive issues, including social justice issues, that Bernie won't fight harder on than HRC.

And no social justice issues can ONLY be won on by NOT fighting Wall Street-since Wall Street and corporate America are the enemies of all social change.

HRC won't fight for anything Bernie won't fight for. And Obama didn't do much of anything to actually fight racism as president. He endorsed the idea that white people are entitled to lecture poor black people, especially poor black women, on "personal responsibility".

Class and economic justice matter just as much as fighting homophobia and racism-and true progressives fight with equal passion against ALL of the above. And Bernie's campaign will be about fighting against all of the above-no other Democratic presidential candidate(unless Elizabeth Warren gets in)will really fight against any of them.

[one_voice]

90. So why not just say that?...

He the people's champions--not trying to sound corny or anything...but why not something along those lines. He fights for everyday people--all people...something positive.

Why did it 1) have come off as though the white dude was superior to the black dude and the woman & 2) why do you have to shit on other democrats to build him up. Bernie does just fine on his own merits he doesn't need anyone silly supporter making not just doing divisive graphics in his name, but shitty photoshop to boot.

Why is Hillary all fuzzy?

[Ken Burch]

191. It wasn't Bernie or his campaign saying it.

We don't know WHO posted the thing, to my knowledge.

As to your questions regarding the clip, who knows? In any case, Bernie and his campaign were clearly not responsible for it. Think about it...the guy is going to declare his candidacy tomorrow-last thing he'd do would be to diss half the Democratic base.

My guess is, it was either a random internet wiseass(or some sort of dirty trick from some anti-Bernie source).

[BainsBane]

68. Some of his supporters are foul

but I am trying not to let them interfere with a rational evaluation of the candidates. If I judged Sanders by his DU supporters, I could never in a million years support him, and the meme in your OP is a prefect illustration why. They do him no favors with this shit. It's repulsive. I would like to think he'd tell the reactionaries to fuck off back to the nineteenth century where they came from.

There is definitely an angry white guy crowd that is just like the GOP in their resentment toward progress and the majority of the American public.

[cyberswede]

76. We shouldn't judge any candidate by their DU supporters.

There'd be nobody left to vote for.

[BainsBane]

85. Wiser words have never been spoken

Still, that meme is truly astounding. How can anyone think its effect could do anything but alienate? Do they really want to make sure Sanders is supported only by straight white men? If so, he doesn't stand a chance.

[smokey nj]

83. I didn't see any of his supporters cheering that post.

Most of the responses were negative.

[BainsBane]

87. I just looked

and I did see posts supporting it.

[smokey nj]

93. Most were negative.

[ucrdem]

94. If he's pitching to them, that's a problem, and he seems to be, with TPP particularly. FOR EXAMPLE:

Sanders, pitching to the Paul crowd:

The letter Sanders sent on Monday to U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman criticizes secrecy standards that Froman's office imposes on the TPP talks.

"I have been very concerned that up to this date the text of this agreement has not been made public," Sanders wrote. "The only text that I am aware of that has been made public so far has been through leaked documents, and I find what I read very troubling.

"It is incomprehensible to me that the leaders of major corporate interests who stand to gain enormous financial benefits from this agreement are actively involved in the writing of the TPP while, at the same time, the elected officials of this country, representing the American people, have little or no knowledge as to what is in it," Sanders added.

Truth, per the USTR:

USTR told HuffPost it had ramped up congressional outreach, and has held nearly 1,600 meetings on Capitol Hill over the trade pact.

“Senator Sanders, like all Members of Congress, has full access to the draft TPP negotiating text and we look forward to working with him to review it," USTR spokesman Trevor Kincaid said. "Members of Congress, labor unions, non-profits, and environmentalists have all played an important role in shaping our approach to our trade policy. This includes Senator Sanders, whose input USTR has received on a dozen occasions on issues ranging from clean energy manufacturing to cheese."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/05/bernie-sanders-michael-froman-tpp_n_6419874.html
.............

There's nothing particularly progressive about playing the America-first card and demagoguing against an initiative that a Democratic administration has been working on for six years.

[BainsBane]

96. TPP is a legitimate issue

and a world apart from the message conveyed in the meme above.

[ucrdem]

101. Lying about it is not. It's dog whistling and it stinks. nt

[BainsBane]

105. Lying?

Come on. Sanders comment is about PUBLIC access. Your info is about congressional access. They are not the same.

[ucrdem]

109. Lying. Did you read what I posted or just the subject line?

Yes, it's grotesquely dishonest. Please read the post thanks.

[ucrdem]

122. You added public access. What do you imagine Bernie & Liz would like to give the public access to?

The negotiating documents? The thing isn't finished and they're doing their dishonest damnedest to make sure it never is. And if it's as eeeevuhl as they're both pretending you'd think they could come up with a specific or two besides ISDS which apparently wasn't scary enough to get any TV traction.

[BainsBane]

125. That you don't think the public should know the contents of the deal

before supporting fast track does not equate to Sanders' lying. It is a difference of opinion. I called out this lying bullshit when they pulled it on President Obama, and it's no better coming from you about Sanders. Knock if off. Disagreements do not amount to lies.

[ucrdem]

127. Okay I'll repeat: What do you imagine they want to give the public access to?

And yes, grotesquely dishonest characterizations intended to sandbag international treaties for political gain are lies.

[AgingAmerican]

73. Does that mean three strikes and he is out?

Old, CHECK! White, CHECK! Male, CHECK!

[BainsBane]

91. No, it means if you want him to win the nomination

Leave it to people who don't seek to alienate the majority of Americans.

[tkmorris]

97. Then fucking delete this dishonest OP

[ucrdem]

107. There's nothing wrong with the OP which expresses an opinion on a legitimate concern.

[Luminous Animal]

138. The OP blames it on Sander's campaign. Which is a lie. If she is comfortable with catapulting a lie

that is on her.

Myself. I fucking despise liars or those who spread lies but allow that lie to just hang out there.

Her edit admits that she is promoting a lie.. but, oh well… let the lie stand anyway.

I wonder what her boys would feel about this.

[ucrdem]

142. OP says it *if* it's from Sanders. Apparently it isn't and the OP notes that. nt

[Luminous Animal]

148. Hahahaha.Nope The title says, "If this is Sander's campaign…

Not. "If it's from Sander's campaign."

We were both smart enough to recognize the nuance of language.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

[ucrdem]

150. The operative word is *IF* and no I don't detect any determinative nuance in the rest. nt

[seabeyond]

158. well luminous, i am not smart enough to see your nuance. explain please.

thru out my op i clearly am not sure where this came from.

didnt i even ask... tell me this is not sanders?

[Luminous Animal]

165. Nope. When is declarative and one is questioning.

"If this is Sander's campaign, a horse head in my bed, then I am out." This is declaring that you believe that the horse head in your bed comes from Sander's campaign.

"If it's from Sanders campaign, a horse head in my bed, then I am out." This is questioning where the horse head came from.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

[seabeyond]

112. no. nothing dishonest about it. it is something on du, allowed on du, supported by du. its an honest

reaction by a SUPPORTER of sanders reading this shit. it needs to be seen so people know, that when they use sanders to put out their divisive message, it will affect supporters.

ya think.....

[cherokeeprogressive]

100. Cool story!

[kentuck]

114. Yep.

He's running against Hillary.

[Katashi_itto]

119. I'm looking forward to seeing Avengers 2 this weekend.

[Katashi_itto]

128. .

[Luminous Animal]

130. Now that you know, I think you should delete.

Or would you prefer it hang here with so many comments before you edit.

[seabeyond]

133. i did edit and clarified. i am not deleting. i am a supporter. and because others put sanders

face up, with the jab at "social warriors" a SUPPORTER got pissed, confused, and all kinds of stuff. let the op stand. it matters. it matters it is allowed on du. it matters pissing off the very people supporting a candidate, throwing this crap out there.

you do not piss off the very supporters of a candidate and declare it a win.

[Luminous Animal]

181. I am not buying it. Remember when someone posted a Bush Nazi video on MoveOn and the

right wing media had a field day with it?

That is what you are doing.

Your title is propaganda.

Your edit is bullshit.

[seabeyond]

193. if you are not "buying" it then you have not read a single one of my many posts the last three weeks

you do not have to buy it. i cannot make you buy it.

[Luminous Animal]

196. Letting your OP stand is contrary to your posts in the last three weeks. That speaks louder.

[Cali_Democrat]

132. Hey.....let's alienate women and minorities in order to get Sanders the dem nomination.

Brilliant!



You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

People seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Democratic voters.

This ain't the GOP where the base is filled with angry white guys.

[seabeyond]

139. exactly. then when one of the supporters is actually pissed about being ALIENATED, i am the problem.

thank you.

[Cali_Democrat]

145. Thank you for bringing this to our attention

I would have missed it otherwise.

As BainesBaine mentioned, it confirms suspicions about the people who constantly attack Obama and Hillary.

None of them good.

[freshwest]

212. Of course! It's always that way! n/t

[Ken Burch]

152. It's possible that this is actually a dirty trick from another campaign.

It isn't from Bernie's campaign and he may not even know it's out there.

It was a joke that didn't work(the irony didn't read as it should have)and in not working, did harm.

But it's solely the responsibility of the idiot who posted it-not Bernie or his campaign.

[Cali_Democrat]

200. Sanders is a good guy

He would never create something this stupid.

[JI7]

168. people who do something like this do not really support Sanders

just like some have been doing with warren, they will use someone just to do what they have always been doing which is to bash minorities, women etc.

[sufrommich]

135. You're being alert stalked:

i really do not give a flyin fug if you do not like it. alert. or better? alert on the Op that
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6593462

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No comments added by alerter

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:13 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stop alert stalking Seabeyond. Couldn't even bother with a reason for this alert,pathetic.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Almost hid because of the word fug. Next time go for the gold and use fuck, OK.

[seabeyond]

163. i was getting too many posts hidden for saying fuck. further, werent you one to tell me to quit

cussing. went to fug, and stopped getting hide, .... lmFUGGIN'ao.

thanks suf.

[Luminous Animal]

153. So. Essentially, on your edit, you are telling us that you sold yourself out.

I see your game and we are on.

[seabeyond]

164. i admit luminous, i am clueless. clarify, or you are on by yourself. actually...

whether i understand or not, you are on by yourself. i like you. not going into battle.

[Luminous Animal]

174. You post an OP. Which you later retract on edit but won't do the stand up thing and

delete. You have some people believing that the Sanders CAMPAIGN (as if it came from Sanders himself) went strait to dissing women and AA's with no evidence whatsoever.

And in fact, when apprised, so quickly of the fact that this "meme" did not originate from Sanders' campaign, you took the opportunity to edit without it being revealed in red at the top of your OP.

Your OP catapults the propaganda.

Your edit is in small type on page 4.

[seabeyond]

183. would you like me to bold the edit? my OP stands. these are supporters of sanders, on du,

putting out this meme repeatedly. in the past it was with warren. now they have sanders. would you rather it be clear, that people need to think twice before putting out insulting crap to the very base they are counting on is stupid?

anyone reading that op understands i did not know and was questioning it.

not a single person could fathom it was sanders, just as i could not fathom sanders did that, in my very OP. clinton supporters are on her saying, not sanders. and shame on the one that twisted sanders in that manner. but you, are bothered with me.

this graph is allowed on du. just not here in gd? or just not someone calling it crap?

i will bold the edit.

[Luminous Animal]

194. And how do you know that is an actual supporter of Sanders and not a

troll. How do you know. You don't.

Do you remember how many trolls revealed themselves after Bush won his second term? It was shocking. Good solid DUers outed themselves as Bush supporters. Do you remember the PUMAs? The racism was sickening.

Your OP is a goddamed piece of lie. And you went immediately to Sanders campaign. Which still stands in your OP and is total BULLSHIT. Your offer of a bold edit is bullshit.

[Bonobo]

197. That is an excellent point. Which would make the OP a useful you-know-what. nt

[NanceGreggs]

159. This is marketing at its worst.

The minute I see/hear the term "old white guy", I think Republican - I think John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Mike Huckabee. I picture good ol' boys, get-off-my-lawn types who want to "take America back" to the good ol' days before food inspections, child labour laws, and the Emancipation.

THAT is not who Bernie Sanders is, or what he stands for. In fact, he is the exact opposite of what the term "old white guy" has come to mean.

Identifying him as "the old white guy" is so off-the-mark, it's embarrassing.

[Cha]

166. Typical for those who like to throw shite on the President and Hillary.. It's also not who Bernie is

in that he respects President Obama and can look at the big picture. He wouldn't pull this divisive shit.. that's for those on DU who are pumping up their egos.

[betsuni]

176. And soon enough Bernie will disappoint them

because of just those things.

[NanceGreggs]

178. Well, it does serve one purpose.

Whoever came up with this "you missed the target by a hemisphere" piece of crap has now demonstrated their own political naivete, along with an acute unawareness of effective marketing.

Perhaps this graphic can be used in future as a teaching tool in Message You REALLY Don't Want to Send 101.

[Cha]

192. Yeah, they're not thinking past their own hate. "Old White Guy".. what a "genuis"! Oh and just

a freaking tad Racist!

[NanceGreggs]

195. More than "a tad".

I'd almost swear that whoever came up with this idiocy has no idea who Bernie is. Just no clue whatsoever.

[Cha]

201. Prescisely.. we know him better than they do. That's exactly why Bernie became a Dem

for this campaign.. because he's thinking of the Country and he doesn't want to shoo people away like too many of those on DU.

And, yeah.. it's really disgustingly Racist.

[Cha]

160. No surprise it's done by someone here on DU. Sen Sanders is way too smart to come up with this

Divisive shit.

He knows he won't win without the President Supporters. Bernie has respect for the President can see the big picture.. unlike those on DU who just like to throw ugly shit on Pres Obama and Hillary.

Mahalo for your OP, seabeyond.

[DJ13]

167. Congratulations

You found something unrelated to Sanders to use as a weapon against all his supporters.

Nice job!

[seabeyond]

170. something his supporters used against him that can hurt him unless it is called out. i think all

the supporters of sanders should pat me on the back, to help us recognize how we want to proceed without hurting him, but play on his strengths that is anything but a divider.

i would think you would have issue with those that brought it to du, and got a chuckle out of it, discrediting sanders.

[DJ13]

173. I do have an issue with whoever brought it to DU

But its being run into the ground by people who obviously have little interest in supporting a Sanders candidacy.

Theres more going on here than just a bit of outrage.

[Bonobo]

179. "they sold us out with this. "

Nope, not deceptive at all.

Carry on digging.

[LittleBlue]

180. I'm not sure what to make of that graphic

Before I read any of the responses in this thread, it seemed like an ironic graphic. Like even though Sanders is an old white male (ie the bedrock of the right), his policies would be more beneficial to blacks than the first black president and more beneficial to women than Hillary.

Really the graphic is more appropriate on twitter than DU. It was always going to go over like a lead balloon here. Divisive stuff doesn't help Bernie right now.

Anyway I'd like to take this chance to point out something I learned about Bernie today. His estimated net worth is $460k.

http://ballotpedia.org/Bernie_Sanders#Personal_Gain_Index

Which is pretty low considering he's 73 and had decades to sell influence in the political offices he's held, had he chosen that path. If he had sold out to corporations, he could have retired years ago and made that much money (or more) in a year as a lobbyist.

So he gave up a life of wealth to serve the people. He's always been there to support us. Which is why I feel obligated to support him now.

[KingCharlemagne]

182. This OP and thread really have me scratching my head. The very first words ("If this is

Sanders {sic} campaign, . . . &quot have been shown to be untrue, i.e., it is not Sanders' campaign. So the rest of the conditional statement ("I am out.&quot seems superfluous.

To wit, this is NOT Sanders campaign, so presumably the OP having been informed of that salient fact is NOT out.

But I'm still scratching my head and bewildered at the massive kerfluffle here. It's like some ouroboros or psychedelic trip that one might wish over but one is helpless to end or to ignore. Totally surreal.

[Bonobo]

185. It's weird, but the OP knew after 3 posts this was NOT from the Sanders campaign.

The remainder is childish pouting and stomping of feet "No I will NOT delete it!"

"The sold us out" is pretty unambiguously attacking the Sanders campaign and a small edit really doen't do much to correct the seemingly intentional false impression given by the OP title.

[KingCharlemagne]

186. It feels like shit-stirring or posting in bad faith, but the whole thing has this massively

surreal word salad-esque quality to it, such that I'm not sure I'd even dignify it with 'shit stirring' (which presumes a certain degree of malevolent competence, a quality sorely lacking here).

[Bonobo]

190. It is no more "shit stirring" than a child whining over being told to sleep is "shit stirring".

She does not want to be told to delete her OP and THAT is why she will not.

Nor is she willing to edit the subject line. Why? The same reason a teenager doesn't like to do take a shower when they are told to do so.

As for the salad-esque quality, that is a different problem all together. A good thesaurus online would be a big help.

[KingCharlemagne]

198. Ah, I got you. The classical Latin poet Horace once commented that one should wait seven

years after writing something before publishing it. I've often found Horace's advice serves me in good stead when I'm deciding whether to click on 'Post' or 'Send' (or their equivalents). OK, maybe not seven years, but at least pausing before publishing. Methinks the OP would have also done well to heed Horace's advice.

[Bonobo]

205. Jumping the gun is one thing, but...

Stubbornly refusing to correct your error is another thing. She has had all the time to realize the false impression she is giving and does not care to correct it.

Who really knows why? I can only speculate that it is a kind of simmering anger and that DU is the pressure valve.

[Fumesucker]

202. There are a lot of posters here who do not get irony and sarcasm *at* *all*...

Anything ironic or sarcastic gets posted and it's guaranteed to create confusion among a certain subset of DUers.

Literal mindedness has always struck me as a conservative characteristic rather than a liberal one.

[MFrohike]

206. Yep

It ain't the best joke, but it's definitely a joke.

[TexasTowelie]

215. Locking thread.

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