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This message was self-deleted by its author (NYC_SKP) on Sun Apr 26, 2015, 07:06 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
napi21
(45,806 posts)There will be a Dem primary. Second, I think Hillary will win that primary and be our candidate. Third, SHE WILL WIN!
It amazes me that some many Dems are responding to the media hype about Hillary. It doesn't matter WHO our candidate is, the opposition & the Media will try to paint them with corruption. left wing, big gov't loving, big spending, and every other run of the mill problem they always have used. Remember what they did to Kerry. Dukakis, Gore, etc. This crap goes back to Truman, and probably before that. It's important that WE do the same in digging up dirt on the Pub candidates, and it should be a lot easier to find on them and it will be true too!
It's politics and it's always dirty pool.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Between Ricky Ray Rector's execution at Bill's insistence, to garner favor in his run, to Hillary's position on the board of Union Killing Walmart, I knew they weren't one of us.
We could have chosen Bill Bradley, Jesse Jackson, Dick Gephardt, Al Gore, Jay Rockefeller, Mario Cuomo, Douglas Wilder, Bob Kerrey, Tom Harkin, Paul Tsongas, or Jerry Brown.
And we had to go with Clinton, what a mistake that was.
If you're a progressive, that is.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)and we will lose.
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton, but posting an attack article written by a Republican operative is way over the line, imho.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)blm
(113,082 posts)with their Gish Gallop attacks. They know exactly how to manipulate even the left media to bend to their tactic. And I say this as a longtime critic of Clintons who knows the difference between substantive observations and Gish Gallop being employed to defend the BS charges being sold as Clinton Cash.
If we have become conditioned to fold whenever this attack is used then we may as well give up and let fascism ride the GOP's express train. At least when Dems control at least some of DC the train to fascism is forced to slow down to local speed.
spanone
(135,857 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)She ain't worth it, but if somebody doesn't successfully defend her carelessness, it will be a disaster.
Why should they "damage control" a blatant lie?
NYC_SKP (66,965 posts)
Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)
Sun Apr 26, 2015, 12:18 PM
It doesn't matter one bit if the author lied.
pansypoo53219
(20,987 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)I stopped reading after the first sentence.. but here is a link if people need to see it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I'd take a list of names/entities involved in this stinky mess and look deeply into their history of charitable donations. I'd be asking questions like:
How much have they given to charity in the past, and what business deals were in the works before, during, and after their donations?
Is there even the slightest suspicion their past charitable donations benefited their businesses/bank accounts/pocketbooks in any way?
How do the amounts of their previous donations compare with what they donated to the Clinton Foundation?
Partisan journalism being what it is all about today though makes what I'd do a mere pipe dream.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Geeze, we knew he was a walking disaster area in Texas, eviscerating social services for his buddies, corrupt from the get-go. Halliburtion and Kellogg were already screwing things up for years their with their construction projects, but you know, they got first dibs on 'reconstructing' Iraq. Mainly to their own pockets.
From Jeb's coordinated, racist attack on the citizens of Florida, see where Greg Palast detailed it:
http://www.documentary-film.net/search/video-listings.php?e=118
And further proof it was racist:
Voters Barred from Voting. In this category we find a combination of incompetence and trickery that stops voters from pulling the lever in the first place. Theres the purge of "felon" voters that continues to eliminate thousands whose only crime is VWB - Voting While Black. It includes subtle games like eliminating polling stations in selected districts, creating impossible lines. No one can pretend to calculate a hard number for all votes lost this way any more than you can find every bullet fragment in a mutilated body. But its a safe bet that the numbers reach into the hundreds of thousands of voters locked out of the voting booth.
http://www.gregpalast.com/recipe-for-a-cooked-election/
And the Brooks Brothers' Riot:
Included in the list pictured there, and all illegal by federal and sent there by Tom Delay to stop the lawful process of the election:
1. Tom PYLE, office of House Majority Whip Tom DELAY (R-TX)
2. Garry MALPHRUS, Majority Chief counsel
3. Rory COOPER, staff member, Natl Republican Congressional Committee
4. Kevin SMITH, former House Republican Conference Analyst
5. Steven BRODY, Former Aide to Sen. Fred D. THOMPSON (R-TN)
6. Matt SCHLAPP, BUSH Campaign Staff, Austin
7. Roger MORSE, Aide to Rep. Van HILLARY (R-TN)
8. Duane GIBSON, Aide to Chairman Don YOUNG (R-AK)
9. Chuck ROYAL, Asst to Rep. Jim DeMINT (R-SC)
10. Layna McCONKEY, Former legislative asst to former Rep. Jim Ross LIGHTFOOT (R-IA)
Read the whole thing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023021978
And to Cheney's secret Energy Summit where he and his oil buddies tlikely planned the Iraq War, to Little Boots talking about 'new product lines introduced in September' as a euphemism for the war they had planned:
http://www.gregpalast.com/how-bush-won-the-war-in-iraq-really/
The remaining media carried one scandal after another daily before September 11th, such as the lethal scandal of their pals at ENRON, a real theft of pensions, jobs and lives of vulnerable people in several states. While they laughed their asses off. Just take a look at:
Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron:_The_Smartest_Guys_in_the_Room
There are so many other examples of bad actions, but some still voted for this man in 2000 and 2004! They were either clueless then, and likely clueless now, or saw a way to profit like certain individuals did for years.
Yuk it up at the 5:00 mark! Hilarious!
So Frum didn't see a problem?
No, of course not. Nothing about it was illegitmate to him. Up there near the seat of power, working for his GOP masters, Frum saw nothing wrong with the Voting Rights Act being violated openly in 2000 when it was still in force, and likely isn't a 'progressive' in any other matter.
His complaints on Republicans are mild rebukes. As if to say to Hitler:
'Look pal, you're doing it wrong. Make sure no one finds out what you did. That's all you gotta do. Now carry on with the program.'
I used to believe DU wouldn't sink so low as to use GOP and RW sources in an attempt to bury a Democrat, or do opposition research to help Republicans, yet offer nothing in the way of a replacement hitter.
Yet they are, and I believe DU will be RF central through 2016. Or course if one hasn't dealt with real harassment and prejudice and have nothing to lose, those other folks don't mean anything. I've come to believe that.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)they will crucify her. And unlike the Clintons, she's never faced anything like that.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)If Senator Warren ran or Bernie Sanders, the right wing slime machine would crucify them!
What would the Hillary haters do then? Put their tails between their legs and sulk away like they are doing now with Hillary?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)The only thing they have is their petty complaint about her Native American ancestry.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)They took his sterling war record and distorted it beyond recognition.
They don't have any regard for the truth, so it doesn't matter in the least that Warren has nothing to hide.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)to hide?
Do you think for one minute the Republicans won't make an issue of the fact she's a member of the 1%? And question how she got it? Of course, the questions will be followed by allegations of how she earned her money too.
Warren, the Harvard bankruptcy law professor elected to the Senate in 2012, is worth between $3.7 million and $10 million.
That's not including the three-story Victorian home in Cambridge, Mass., that she owns with her husband and fellow Harvard law professor, Bruce Mann. It's now assessed at $1.9 million, according to city property records.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/08/news/economy/elizabeth-warren-wealth/
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)But maybe not, maybe they're holding back.
Her household is worth $3.7M compared to the Clintons $135M, that's quite a difference, 50:1
A $1.9M home for two very successful people isn't too crazy in this age and this market.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)They would take the years Warren was a Republican and twist it into an attack. They could take Jesus himself & villify his words if it meant leading the dumb & blind to cast votes for the RW rather than Jesus Christ.
Understand?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)She would be destroyed.
And the stupid thing is, people would actually start believing the lies they tell.
They do it to anyone that threatens their 2016 dream of total govt control.
Warren, as strong as she is, would be treated no dofferent by the RW & the media as any other threat.
Give it up.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Really, really? WOW!
What a great idea! Let republicans pick the Democratic candidate!
What a f***in joke! So obviously the republicans are panicking over having to face Hillary in 2016 because they know she will win.
So in their great concern to see the democratic party do the right thing they suggest we dump her.
And of course all the Hillary hating Democrats are going to follow right along like good little puppies.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And if motherjones is working on the side for President Cruz/Walker/Hackabee they can go straight to hell, the sooner the better!
Hillary for all her faults would be one million times better as President than any teahaddist republican thats running to be the Pope of America!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)For now, we need to encourage them to run and we need to vet any who have announced.
Hillary has announced and now she's being vetted.
This is far from over.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)No, NYC_SKP, I neither like nor cite people who write paeans to George Walker Bush as a credible source:
nor will I rely on his advice when I cast my vote.
Though I do admire your persistence.
DemocratSinceBirth
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)but those goal posts sure do move around a lot.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)I have no problems with raising questions about HRC, I DO have a problem with citing right-wingers like David Frum in order to do so.
You're doing no favors for those of us who would like to see other Dems in the presidential race by citing a piece written by a conservative in support of your argument. It simply de-legitimizes your argument. I'm embarrassed for you that you can't seem to see that.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I guess the blind Hillary hate just takes over after awhile and all reason flies right out the window.
Thanks for that pic, its perfect!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)This one is infinitely better
zappaman
(20,606 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And it can't be done, the only defense is that Frum in a poopie pants.
That's easy.
Hillary's supporters have a harder time arguing with MotherJones.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026565578
Oh, and, David Frum is a real case, but he manages to have a career. Go figure!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)So does Newt Gingrich:
And that's supposed to be dispositive of exactly what?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Frum makes Newt look brilliant.
It doesn't change the problem that faces Ms. Clinton.
90-95% of the electorate won't want a person who can't stay on message and who can't defend against her gaffs and RW attacks.
It's easy enough for some on the left to like here, not too hard for her to win the primary, too soon to tell.
But in the General Election when she has to win over a majority of middle Americans, left right and center, it'll be a wipeout.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And if they pick Luther, the anger translator, she won't win anything.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Why are you so concerned about this fake book damaging Hillary?
You want nothing more than the RW Fascists to have 2016. That's my opinion of your opinion.
I call Bull Shit on your Frum promotion as valid in any way.
Why do you promote the slightest bit of it as some truth ?
Clearly you are not really concerned about Hillary Clinton.
So grab a handful of the RW Frum lies and bring it here as if its truth.
WADDA BUNCH OF BULL CRAP!
P.U. Stinks today
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Haaa.
Apparently you'd rather not discuss your promoting Frum lies on DU as something valid.
Wow. That stink's drifting higher than a PU Troll.
Frum? REALLY??
P.U.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)Are conflicts of interest inevitable when the Clintons are involved?
The problem here isn't that the Clinton Foundation wasn't following the rules. As with the email controversy, where there's evidence that the letter (though not the spirit) of public-records laws was followed, the problem here is with the rules themselves. It's hard to imagine any guideline that could avoid any suggestion that foreign actors were trying to influence Hillary Clinton, but also allow the Clinton Foundation to continue supporting its work. How many global donors have no connection to a foreign government?
Yet dissolving a huge charitable organization for a short stint as secretary of state doesn't seem practical either. (The fate of the foundation if Hillary Clinton is elected president is a different and more interesting topic for speculation.) Bill Clinton's post-presidency was unique from the start. As James Fallows noted in the magazine in 2003, he was the youngest ex-president since Theodore Roosevelt (and he's already outlived TR by eight years), so he had an unparalleled chance to create a post-presidential legacy. His connections to foreign leaders and his ability to raise money meant he could achieve more around the world than any predecessor and than most charitable organizations. As long as Hillary Clinton remains an aspiring or active public servant, however, there will be conflict-of-interest questions.
What has been clear, or should have been clear, since Clinton's rise to the top of the 2016 field, is that such controversies are what you get with the Clintonstake it or leave it. Hillary Clinton offers a depth of relationships with foreign leaders and a savvy that a Washington newcomer like Barack Obama (or Scott Walker) couldn't hope to bring to the White House; but you might also get uncomfortable donations. Often enough, there's no proof of serious malfeasance, either, just troubling questions. Both the emails and the donations fit that model. (One way to assess whether there was any tit-for-tat involving the foundation and the State Department would be if you could look at Hillary Clinton's emails while she was secretary, which ... right.)
Predictability might be Clinton's greatest asset. It's tough to find someone who doesn't already have an opinion about her. Those inclined to distrust the Clinton family see this as further proof of what they already believed, and those who think the media and a vast right-wing conspiracy are out to get the Clintons will likewise find confirmation of their views. (Early polls may be irrelevant, but a CNN survey this week found her well out ahead of the Republican field.) The election will be won among the small number of voters who might still be swayedthough how much effect Clinton Foundation donations will have on that is impossible to tell.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/hillarys-campaign-is-built-on-a-shaky-foundation/388324/
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Bill+Hillary should probably have chosen one or the other:
A former president with awesome partner and a major Foundation.
Or A former president and wife who is SOS and then runs for president, pass the Foundation over to new management.
But all of these? Jesus, talk about ambitious/greedy.
What. A. Mess.
On the bright side, instead of her winning the primary and then losing to the GOP, a near certainty, contenders are beginning to step up.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)I think that's what this is about. Question of integrity or judgement with the Clintons. And, I did think the paragraph I bolded brings some perspective with how what they have done since Bill left office have caused them to get involved in tentacles that we ALL should be very worried about it. In their glorified lifestyle they've lost perspective of what Average Americans could see as conflicts of interest.
But, then, the average American has seen Wall Street Bankers and Hedge Funders get off with hand tap fines for gross Criminality. So, the AA might just be immune from questions that the more informed of us who have a conscience might feel constitutes "conflict of interest" these days. Sadly, there's that question. Which is why we need a Dem Primary with other participants.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's a perfect storm.
A perfect shitstorm.
The bright side, someone better to take her place.
Act soon!
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)...pass.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It can't be done.
She's toast
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)It must be so.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)But Hillary is still in hot water.
Try something else, maybe?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Want to keep the Whitehouse?
Find a better candidate.
JCMach1
(27,566 posts)We need to start drawing a firm line here on DU about the 'noise' and non-sense the right-wing is feeding the media and legitimate issues when it comes to Sec. Clinton.
Response to JCMach1 (Reply #55)
Post removed
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)The poor lad or lass is just seriously misguided.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)People with longer histories on this board know this to be true.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)Did we have a rule change?
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Apr 26, 2015, 05:39 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Maybe this is over the top but the OP itself is from a highly questionable source. I'd like to see the whole thread trashed.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Strongly agree with the alerter.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: NYC_SKP a freeper? Not a chance.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, please settle down, Clinton-istas. Trying to squash dissent with name-calling and censorship doesn't work, and just makes you look stupid. No one is a freeper because you think it's your job to force everyone onto Team Clinton with a cattle prod.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I don't know how I would have voted but I am on the record as saying NYC___SKP is not a right winger...But does anybody see the irony in this:
The person votes to hide a post while decrying censorship.
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)When you drop down the message it says 3 - 3.
I don't think I have ever seen that before. Someone call Elad.
JCMach1
(27,566 posts)ummmmmmmm...
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I subscribe to Hanlon's Razor; never attribute to malice that which can best be attributed to incompetence...
JCMach1
(27,566 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Which she has been working on for years.
Get your candidate out and running.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I mean, holy fuck. This explains much.
emulatorloo
(44,164 posts)Clinton Cash book has already been discredited, and David Frum's a right-wing hack.
I'm not crazy about HRC, but I have very low tolerance for this kind of Swiftboating.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)There's no swiftboating, which was based entirely on lies.
Hillary has baggage, she's weak, and we should look at the whole picture and make informed decisions.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)It only gets worse the more you dig that hole, best let it go and admit it was a bad choice to post something from Frum.
JCMach1
(27,566 posts)The media is biting on every little piece of noise about Sen. Clinton even more legit media outlets.
MineralMan
(146,324 posts)You're quoting something from a GWB acolyte on DU? Who's next? Will we hear from Rush in your next post? Feh!
vadermike
(1,416 posts)I think the OP is worried that this "scandal" will sink her and she is already toasted and we need someone new.. in defense of the OP... i am a Hillary Supporter by the way.. i don't know.. I personally think this whole thing is garbage and it is very early with most of it already being debunked by ABC news. NBC etc and especially to come out now.. meh.. if this had come out in August we'd be screwed IMO.. but the media cycle will run its course..as with everything.. actually it could be said we were in more hot water when the President had the Jeremeiah Wright business.. that was pretty inflammataory stuff.. but we survived...People want to know what you can do for them.. taxes, wages etc.. this kind of stuff is beltway... although i do think it is good that alot of the surrogates are coming out fighting this stuff right away.. unlike Kerry who allowed himself to be swiftboated and they waited like 3 weeks to address it,,,, !
dsc
(52,166 posts)the guy who gave us the wrong Loretta Lynch. Maybe in a few more days you might actually be able to find someone who isn't a right wing hack to quote. Hope springs eternal.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)And it's now being ignored...you have really gone off the deep end...you are Exhibit A in irrational hate towards all things Clinton...enjoy your life.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)NT
UTUSN
(70,725 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I'm not a big student on whom is a poopy head, I looked of articles, thought The Atlantic was not going to explode heads but ah well, I'm not so bright.
Please visit this other story, that should be enjoyable but is getting no love.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026572902 Say hello over there and I'll write back!
And, take care!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts).
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Atlantic: The Clash Over Clinton's CashAnd Why it Matters
Call me a concern troll, but this is what we're facing.
-- Appearance of conflict between serving as SOS and running a Foundation that gets donations from sensitive "players" in sensitive nations.
-- Not reporting these as requested by the Potus.
-- And lost or deleted emails that we do or don't know were associated with any of these things.
There doesn't have to have been any actual quid pro quo for it to look really careless at least, and scandalous.
We Democrats really need to think long and hard about whether she can win, and whether or not we're well served ignoring alternative candidates.
I happen to feel that she's not the best choice and, further, I think she'll lose the general election if she wins the primary.
If the whiff of corruption and deceit linger about the Clinton candidacy past election day, is she really the candidate that Democrats want in 2016?
David Frum Apr 25, 2015
Today was the latest installment of the never-ending Clinton scandal saga, but it wont be the last. Yet in some ways, the specifics are a distraction. The sale of access was designed into the post-2001 Clinton family finances from the start. Probably nobody will ever prove that this quid led to that quo but theres about a quarter-billion-dollar of quid heaped in plain sight and an equally impressive pile of quo, and its all been visible for years to anyone who cared to notice. As Jonathan Chait, who is no right-wing noise-machine operator, complained: The Clintons have been disorganized and greedy.
All of this amounts to diddly-squat, pronounced long-time Clinton associate James Carville when news broke that Hillary Clinton had erased huge numbers of emails. That may not be true: If any of the conduct in question proves illegal, destroying relevant records may also have run afoul of the law.
But Carvilles dismissal is right as a matter of politics. Scandals, even quite bad ones, tend not to matter as much as they used to, unless the person at the center is sentenced to prison. The impulse to rally to the team is strong, and this impulse has been used shrewdly by the Clinton family over the course of their long, ethically challenged career. They will try to exploit that impulse again now.
~snip~
Its not trolling if its true, and nothing is more true in presidential politics right now than this: The whiff of corruption and deceit will linger about the Clinton candidacy to voting dayand waft through the corridors of a Clinton presidency even if the greater potential strength of the Democratic presidential coalition overcomes the bad odor around its candidate. Yet politics wont stop on the first Tuesday of November 2016. The truths exposed about the Clinton candidacy will shape and even define a Clinton presidency. That should matter as much to those who hope for a popular and effective Democratic administration after 2016 as to those who hope to prevent one.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-clash-over-clintons-cashand-why-it-matters/391466/
Related:
The Atlantic "A Quick Guide to the Questions About Clinton Cash"
The Atlantic: Hillary's Campaign Is Built on a Shaky Foundation
Run away.