Guess what?

[sheshe2]

You did it, unintentionally of course. You tipped me over the edge. I am now in the Hillary camp.

You have trashed beaten and disrespected this woman. I was always an Obama supporter, from the beginning. An awesome President that has been so disrespected by the GOP, and sadly many here. I truly believe that a black man was a huge issue for the GOP. YOU LIE per Joe Wilson at the SOTU.



Never a Hillary supporter the first time around, yet I respected her. So keep it up. Talk about her hair, her logo and her baggage. Keep disrespecting the woman, not with facts just snide comments. Oh, and the images of her as an aged crone. Just stop it! I know we as women are hated by the GOP. Do we have to do it here as well?

One woman is being used to beat another woman over the head. Sorry. Warren is not running, please respect that. Take her at her word. And please, stop calling Senator Elizabeth Warren Lizzie, I cringe every time I see that. Maybe it is just me, yet I find that disrespectful.

[freshwest]

1. Remember before all of this, Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton HATED each other, right?

Last edited Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Oops, they're laughing there. Let me see if I can find another one now. Clearly, Michelle was forced to stand beside her:



Umm, Michelle does not look like a woman who can be easily pushed around. Okay, that's not it. This must be it:



Alright, alright. Michelle must have been coerced.Barack and HRC can't agree. See this. It means she sucks, right?



Hum, don't worry. I'll find it sooner or later. Well, never. Not gonna look for it after all.

Yes, CDS is like ODS which means it's actually DPDS (Democratic Party Derangement Syndrome), commonly found on Breitbart, Boortz, Savage, Rush, Freeperville, Libertarian GOP, Infowars and any number of fine RWNJ websites.

Bonus pic for the files of the Kissinger & Clinton crowd:



Well, that's it. The Dalai Lama is apparently... I'll think of a something to say later.

[sheshe2]

2. What a beautiful post!!!!

Thank you freshwwest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'
And~

Bonus pic for the files of the Kissinger & Clinton crowd:



You do me proud sweets. That was awesome!

Brava!!!!!!!!!

[freshwest]

5. Proof the Dalai Lama is a warmonger!

Good lord, I loved him in that flick.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. Did the Dalai Lama urge on the Iraq War?

I missed that

[sheshe2]

109. ...

[Tarheel_Dem]

92. Awesome. Thanks.

[SidDithers]

107. and boom goes the dynamite...

Sid

[Bonobo]

3. On some level,

I am sure you must realize that's not a good reason to make a decision.

I hope you can find other reasons to support her that are less reactionary.

[sheshe2]

4. Well bonobo

I was already there. I just was not ready to declare.

Here is one of my reasons.

Hillary Clinton On Gay Rights Abroad: Secretary Of State Delivers Historic LGBT Speech In Geneva (VIDEO, FULL TEXT)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/hillary-clinton-gay-rights-speech-geneva_n_1132392.html

[Bonobo]

7. It is wonderful that politicians now feel the environment is safe enough for them to evolve.

The victory for gay rights was won (to the extent that it was won) from the bottom up and politicians are just catching up.

Either way, I could not be happier about it.

[sheshe2]

9. Thank you

[RKP5637]

27. Well said!!! n/t

[snooper2]

47. We know you were already there LOL...cool meme though

Hillary got Emotional!
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:12 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275304


Hillary Dropped Her Papers~
Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:45 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022267759


Hillary Celebrates Success... After Running Circles around the Grumpy Old Party!
Thu Jan 24, 2013, 04:14 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022253864


Hillary over the years.
Thu Feb 19, 2015, 12:39 AM
KnR Post #! sheshe2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11071714


NO BUSH NO CLINTON NO DYNASTY!

[misterhighwasted]

55. Two people do not make a dynasty.

Now the Bush crime family certainly would, however.

[snooper2]

56. saw the article, been there done that...no more dynasties

[sheshe2]

108. Because I respected the WOMAN in 2013? SHE WAS OUR SOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How low can you go.

Lions and tigers and bears, OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE ROYAL WE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We know you were already there LOL...cool meme though

'
Yup that Woman that some here have pictured as an ugly aged crone..... I posted this in January of 2013. 2013!!!!

Kinda cool~

Hillary Celebrates Success... After Running Circles around the Grumpy Old Party!










Then once in 2015 in an Op? Why are you calling me out? You want to be ugly, that's fine. Lol. Guess who I supported in 2013. PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My President, he has always had my support, sadly many at DU hate him.

Clue. Clinton was SOS then, you do remember that correct? You are telling me I sould not have appreciated her accomplishments back then without an ulterior motive for 2016. Holy mother, you are reaching here.

Thanks for posting the links, I love seeing them again. And I so respect the woman.

Cool meme? Fuck what you say. Do not project your crap on me. Here at DU it seems like now we are suspect when we celebrate any accomplished Democrats Life.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[joshcryer]

14. I think it's a fair enough reason.

We judge character on a daily, if not hourly basis. People don't like to have bad attitudes levied at them or to exist around them. Some people live on bad attitudes and bad behaviors, but they are a minority.

If everyone was a hater of literally any single issue and made it known in public, the world would burn. People walking up to random strangers in the store and telling them that they don't like the shirt they're wearing, stupid stuff like that. I use this example because when I was a kid we were poor and got clothes from the food bank which consisted of a lot of Christan labeled clothing, and an openly rabid atheist walked up to me as I sat waiting for my mom at the DMV and told me I was an idiot, straight up told a 10 year old kid this. Guess how many times, in the close to 30 years after that incident, someone insulted my clothing choices? I literally cannot remember a time. That's how rare that kind of thing is in real life.

The internet has created an environment where people can be nasty without repercussions. Guess how many times I've been called Third Way, right winger, fascist, neocon, NATO lover, warmonger here. Literally every other goddamn week. (And the worse part is I sometimes lose it and do the same to others, much to my dismay after the fact.)

So yes, I think it's instructive and it's not "unreasonable." Especially in sheshe2's case, who has defended our President from the same sort of smears for years. Why the hell not just be fed up with it?

[sheshe2]

21. It is so late here Josh.

Yet. I can't go before saying ..

I use this example because when I was a kid we were poor and got clothes from the food bank which consisted of a lot of Christan labeled clothing, and an openly rabid atheist walked up to me as I sat waiting for my mom at the DMV and told me I was an idiot, straight up told a 10 year old kid this.

I am so sorry after all these years you remember that. Their insult.They were stupid, so very stupid. Also, thank your sweet heart for coming to my defense. Your mom, she raised a good son.

[joshcryer]

25. That memory really stood out to me, sheshe2.

You always remember the really out of place, weird stuff you encounter. I've been complimented on my clothes many times, but I only remember a couple of times (once I was wearing a suit and twice ladies were flirting with me but I regretfully didn't pick up on it either time! oops!). But insults? They really stick with you and hurt you and just wish the world was a better place.

[seabeyond]

46. on some level,,, you gotta know you do not get to decide if it is a good decision,

because of your own personal preference.

she respected the woman prior. she respects her more, now that we have been given the petty arguments since she declared.

how dare you tell her, that is a poor way to make a decision.

wow

i have seen this from you men recently, too.

a new meme?

[Bonobo]

64. Thanks for the laugh! nt

[sheshe2]

106. Sea...

I so love your heart and soul.

Thank you, my heart to yours.

[seabeyond]

114. i ma so tired of this. these same people telling me how insignificant i am. screw 'em. i think we

are allowed. as progressives. as dems. fug, just simple DU rule.

i hear ya woman.

we will vote for whom we want for our reason with no "emotion" or hysteria, but in reasoned thought.

if you come to the table for discussion? sure. sit

if you come to simply insult, dismiss or try to degrade

fuck it.

simple as pie.

[Hekate]

6. Great OP; love the pix by you and freshwest

I'm with you all the way on this: I was not ready to declare, but the DU version of Hillary Derangemwnt Syndrome ended up pushing me right over the edge.

[sheshe2]

8. Sista!

Great minds~







Oh and... you are to cool.

[PowerToThePeople]

10. color me shocked!

I would never have guessed.

But, since you stated in-thread that you were already in her camp, your OP stating people drove you too her camp via commentary is just click bait, possibly verging on troll post.

To each of us, our vote.

[BainsBane]

17. It definitely has that effect

She isn't the only one who feels that way. I never for a second considered Clinton in 2008, but the vitriol here has changed that. I read another post by someone who said that the pro-Clinton people on this site in 08 were so obnoxious, it turned the member off Clinton. This time, however, they said that it's the anti-Clinton people that are making that person think more favorably about Clinton. There is a a certain psychology at work. People can only see someone beat up so long before it backfires, much like the Monica impeachment business in the 90s. It doesn't help that more than a few here are willing to get in the bed with GOP sources and smear tactics to accomplish their shared goal of defeating her. For whomever I decide to caucus, I won't be taking political advice from Republicans or their allies.

[sheshe2]

24. Thanks, Bains.

I have to go. 5am here. Got to work tomorrow. Will be back late tomorrow. Hold down the fort.

[JI7]

54. those clinton people were mostly banned

Many were racist. I think they were more about being against a black guy than anything else and many moved between Edwards and Clinton.Whoever they thought had a chance of beating Obama.

It got worse as Obama would get closer to winning.

One by the name of tellurian was really bad.

I'm seeing similar things now. Also expect attacks on groups that support the candidate.

[merrily]

28. Good catch. The OP is inconsistent with Reply 4. FYI

On Tue Apr 21, 2015, 02:59 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

color me shocked!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6541674

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The OP is Click bait? The Op is a troll? Personal attack. Posting a positive thread about Clinton is now trolling on DU?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:09 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: is there the slightest chance any of you will learn to spell 'colour' correctly?

as for the post? meh. non-event of the century, and possibly the last century as well. i've been more offended and hurt by the differing length of my shoelaces this morning.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Rude
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This doesn't warrant a hide, but if Sheshe does see this, my advice is don't let what is said here tip you either way. Most of us don't know each other and this is an internet board. Take what is said with a grain of salt. Also I think the "bashing" term is way over used, especially when legitimate criticism is made of Clinton.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Nasty personal attack. Inappropriate, out of place.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Of course, you never called the OP a troll, either, so the alerter's comments were not accurate.

And so it goes at DU.

[NBachers]

11. I posted these pictures on another thread in response to the "embracing Kissinger" photo

in the context of "look at her embracing another monster."

Obviously Aung San Suu Kyi is not a monster. She is a woman who makes my heart swell and fills me with admiration.

I guess I should've used some sarcasm icons to make it clear.

The picture of Hillary greeting Kissinger at some function keeps getting trotted out as "a deed that cannot be undone."

I believe the pictures I'm posting, along with the ones above, paint a different picture of Hillary- one that should be viewed as representative of her true value. The body language looks honest and genuine to me.

[BainsBane]

20. The idea that a Secretary of State shouldn't be seen with

or appear friendly toward one of her predecessors is one of the most ridiculous attacks I've seen, and that is saying alot. I have a lot of problems with Henry Kissinger's record, especially in Chile, but despite that he remains a major figure in diplomatic circles.

People who insist a politician not associate with someone they don't like are people who don't want government to function at all. The Tea Party takes that position, and it is no better when adopted by some on the left. People like that bear some responsibility for the fact that congress no longer functions at all. I've seen some launch into irrational rage at the mere mention of the word compromise, something essential to the legislative process. They place their own egos above the well being of the country, and that is something for which I have no respect.

[Agschmid]

102. This.

[sheshe2]

67. Thanks NBachers,

I love those pictures of Hillary. You are right, they do look genuine. You can always tell by the body language.

[davidpdx]

12. I respect your opinion, but think you are wrong to let a bunch of idiots on a message board

sway you. Most of these people we only know by user names and have never met (for the record I have never met anyone on DU to my knowledge in person). People say dumb stuff sometimes. At the same time, what has been labeled "Hillary Clinton bashing" on DU has extended to anything negative about her (even if it is legitimate policy disagreement). That to me sounds like groupthink. This all started right before she announced and my feeling is that certain people knew and spread the word which had them pumping her up as a candidate right before she announced. This caused a lot of Hillary is the only candidate that can win spin that went on both before and after her announcement. Some of her supporters are down right obnoxious.

Regardless of what people on DU try to label me or others, I will continue to criticize her on policy not personal issues. Anyone claiming a person is bashing Hillary Clinton because they disagree on policy issues is simply trying to shutdown any debate about the future of this country. Personally I don't think that is what DU is about, but then again based on the discussions occurring lately, I guess I'm wrong.

[sheshe2]

16. So

Some of her supporters are down right obnoxious.

You are okay with the ugly aging crone pictures? Some of her detractors are pretty damn ugly. Hey that's okay, it doesn't bash Hillary. It is a discussion of the issues. Oh, wait it is not. You are going to tell me this is okay.

Since you said this

People say dumb stuff sometimes. At the same time, what has been labeled "Hillary Clinton bashing" on DU has extended to anything negative about her (even if it is legitimate policy disagreement). That to me sounds like groupthink.

Please look here!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12776005#post14

David. If it were the issues I would be fine with that. That is damn ugly.

Don't preach to the choir David.

You

Anyone claiming a person is bashing Hillary Clinton because they disagree on policy issues is simply trying to shutdown any debate about the future of this country. Personally I don't think that is what DU is about, but then again based on the discussions occurring lately, I guess I'm wrong.

[davidpdx]

18. First, that wasn't posted by me

Second, I don't condone that type of behavior and have NEVER claimed to. That isn't dumb, that's insulting. Big difference.

Third, many people have criticized her JUST on policy alone and been verbally spit on by Hillary Clinton supporters. I won't name names because that violates DU policy, but that have been quite a few people who WANT to shut down any debate about policy. The bashing meme has gotten way out of hand. Those who support Clinton don't even see it they are so blind.

[sheshe2]

22. I really have to sleep.

I know it wasn't you that posted the image.

To tired for this. Discussion is good, throwing out buzz words don't help. In the pocket of Goldman Sacks. Pitting Warren against Hillary does not work, it is stupid because my Senator is not running.

We can continue later, I have to go David.

[davidpdx]

23. I think it IS worth mentioning because once she is elected it will be TOO LATE

Much like when Obama was elected we wanted to know what we were getting ourselves into. I personally do think she is part of the oligarchy and represents the banks over those of us in the middle class. If she doesn't then she can prove it. Actions speak louder than words.

Warren may not be running, but unless someone else runs who is better that is who I will write in during my primary. As for the GE we'll have to wait and see. I won't lift a finger to help get Clinton elected or donate. Instead I will focus on down ticket races in other states where I can help from here overseas. As for Oregon, it will go for the D nominee as it has for the last 20+ years so my vote will mean very little.

Night............

[ChiciB1]

91. Yeah, I'll Have To Vote... But Wonder What I'm Voting For!!

Hey, look what Obama's doing now!! TPP, I really never thought it could get this bad, but IT IS!!

[davidpdx]

110. I think there is still time to stop the TPP

I personally don't understand his thinking behind it either. It has been one of the things that has disappointed me. On the flip side he has gotten a ton of things done, some that would have been unimaginable six years ago.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. I'm kind of the opposite.

I'm gonna let Hillary's campaign - really, specific policy proposals as weighed against those of other primary candidates - either convince me to support her in the primaries, or not.

I don't feel very much has come out of her campaign in that regard, not yet, but of course she's only been officially in for a week, and as many seem to forget the convention- not just the election- is still way more than a year away.

But I will listen to what she has to say. I will add that, maybe the flip side to what you've experienced- some people who have taken upon themselves the mantle of promoting her, here, I think are doing anything BUT making a convincing argument for her. ("You don't have any other choice" is NOT a compelling argument) If I was to let the assorted opinions of DU members influence my political decisions that heavily- I don't- I might find myself less supportive of HRC than I otherwise might be.

So, like I said, kind of the opposite.

As you note in this thread, Hillary's stances on things like reproductive rights and LGBT marriage are a powerful reason to support her- or ANY Democrat, really, because it is a pretty safe bet that whoever gets our nomination will be both pro-choice and pro-marriage equality. This is a good thing, these are baseline values that our whole party should be able to agree on. Hillary has been a consistent voice for Roe v. Wade (Marriage equality, not so much, but we accept that people can "evolve&quot and deserves credit for standing up to the religious right on front-burner civil rights issues such as those right out of the gate.

Like I said, so far she's been a little lean on specifics, otherwise, but it is of course still very early.

[davidpdx]

19. Well put

But I will listen to what she has to say. I will add that, maybe the flip side to what you've experienced- some people who have taken upon themselves the mantle of promoting her, here, I think are doing anything BUT making a convincing argument for her. ("You don't have any other choice" is NOT a compelling argument) If I was to let the assorted opinions of DU members influence my political decisions that heavily- I don't- I might find myself less supportive of HRC than I otherwise might be.

[merrily]

29. I'd be careful of campaign rhetoric.

For just one example.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12776799

For me, it is not going to overcome a lifetime. Helping found the DLC, spreading its Third Way gospel overseas, not standing up for workers during six years on the board at WalMart, proposing a medical plan right off Heritage Foundation's website, a "racially tinged" 2008 primary campaign, etc. And now, they want to tell me how liberal is?

[BainsBane]

15. I can relate

The vitriol against Clinton that has being expressed on this site for the two plus years since I've been a member has prompted me to be sympathetic to Clinton. Some have been so obsessed they invade unrelated threads in search of what they imagine to be cryptic support for Clinton. Others reduce every discussion of issues to their own antagonism toward her, I suppose because they lack the capacity or interest to talk about issues. I'm going to wait to make a decision, however. I want to wait to see who all declares and what unfolds during the the debates and the process of the campaign, but the vapid and constant attacks against Clinton have definitely made me consider her in a way I refused to in 2008.

I know some insist that they are criticizing her on "issues." However, I don't see continual references to "corporatist" and "oligarchs" to constitute issues. They've developed a group think narrative that says far more about themselves than Clinton.

[lovemydog]

94. +1

I too am waiting for the debates and the process of the campaign.

[jannatul18]

26. Good!

The first picture is looking interesting by the way!

[MannyGoldstein]

30. "I like x because you don't!"

Who can argue with that logic?

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps more than a million dead because of a berserk war that Clinton urged on. Hundreds of thousands of children slaughtered... for nothing.

For nothing.

But hey! If people are against it, you're for it!

Brava!

[BainsBane]

57. Hey, you've worked hard to have an influence

and you've succeeded.

[MannyGoldstein]

59. This particular effect I haven't even seen in our child

since he was... maybe ten years old?

[BainsBane]

60. It's human nature

a significant oversight on your part. Think of how the American pubic reacted to the overload of impeachment and Monica BS.
That backfired too. Effective persuasion actually requires subtlety.

[Jester Messiah]

31. Goldman Sachs welcomes your support, I'm sure.

[sufrommich]

32. Some posters here seem incapable of seeing Hillary posts

and OPs without resorting to spitting venom. They aren't discussing anything,they're accosting people who disagree with them. I just don't engage those types,it's pointless.

[mercuryblues]

34. the one

That raises an eyebrow for me.

Sitting on the Walmart board. She was there from 1986 - 1992. Sam Walton was still alive and it was a different company back then. They are judging her with today's WalMart business practices to the WM of yesteryear. I realize they were not a perfect company back then either, but almost 25 years later they are nothing but a drain on society. Being the 1st woman to sit on the board is never mentioned.

[betsuni]

39. They insist, "No, no, no, I'm only criticizing Hillary Clinton's policies"

exactly like attacks against President Obama, but no, no, no they're not. Buzzwords and insults and diabolical conspiracies that might happen WHEN IT'S TOO LATE BECAUSE WALL STREET OLIGARCH DRONES SURVEILLANCE GOLDMAN SACKS THE ANOINTED ONE CORPORATIST TROJAN HORSE: not discussion. They are not of interest and a waste of time, yet they're all puffed up with self-importance demanding attention.

[Agschmid]

35. Kick.

Same thing happened to me... I'm still open to others but decreasingly so.

[MoonRiver]

36. Awesome sheshe2!

From your previous posts, I thought you were a Hillary supporter, but now you have made it clear!

[sheshe2]

44. ...

[Gothmog]

37. Great OP

I share many of your feelings. Thanks for posting

[Thinkingabout]

38. So many points in which to praise Hillary. Some wants to drive a wedge between

Hillary and the Obamas which does not have any backing.

[bunnies]

40. Youre voting for Hillary because DU is mean to her?

Interesting.

[sheshe2]

45. Your bunny has a pancake on her head.

I find that interesting.

~and adorable to say the least.

[bunnies]

48. lol.

Dont try to touch that pancake. She gets nasty!

[sheshe2]

66. Lol~ I won't touch the pancake!

Two of my nieces have bunnies. When the youngest was in HS, hers followed her everywhere. They actually played ball together, my niece would kick a ball the bunny would chase it and nose it back to her. To cute!

[treestar]

41. Obama's amazing because that 2008 primary

As I understand it, was pretty bad. Then he makes friends with her. Typical lawyer I guess. Be on opposite sides in the courtroom but drink together afterwards. Or, whatever is best for the country - he'll drop any ill will for that. If he was capable of ill will to start.

That bottom photo is cool as can be.

she

[hrmjustin]

42. Thanks She!

Glad you are on board.

[sheshe2]

72. ...

[hrmjustin]

74. I see clearing out my ignore list today was not the best idea.

[sheshe2]

75. Well....

I read all of it every damn day! I finally put one person on ignore and it is not who you think it would be. That one I ignore in my head as much as possible, Justin.

I will be the eyes and ears here. though from the looks of things, I may need to rethink that.

[hrmjustin]

76. It is pointless arguing with some here and I will only end up blowing up and getting a hide.

That is what a few of them want. Most are honest here but a few are not.

[William769]

43. Kick & recommended.

[sheshe2]

73. You!

Read some of the additions, I just got home from work~

[freshwest]

116. And note hrmjustin's sig line now:

A pic to make the GOP go nuts.

[NCTraveler]

49. K&R

Wonderful Photos.

[zappaman]

50. I'm almost there.

But Warren has not officially said she was (past tense) not running, so I will keep my hopes high!
Yes, she has said she is (present tense) not running and she has no plans to run (future tense), but it is obvious she is keeping her options open, as am I.
I have a feeling that when she announces, she will be riding a purple unicorn and will easily beat Hillary with her magic gold coins given to her by a leprechaun.

[Martin Eden]

51. Really?

If you're going to support a candidate, don't you think it would be better if you based that on the merits of the candidate and winning the general election than opinions on the internet that aggravate you?

Making decisions as a reaction to crap like that sets you up for manipulation.

[sheshe2]

68. Well, I have watched her for years...

I was alive during the Clinton years and paying attention. Were You?

Clinton health care plan of 1993

The Clinton health plan required each US citizen and permanent resident alien to become enrolled in a qualified health plan and forbade their disenrollment until covered by another plan. It listed minimum coverages and maximum annual out-of-pocket expenses for each plan. It proposed the establishment of corporate "regional alliances" of health providers to be subject to a fee-for-service schedule. People below a certain set income level were to pay nothing. The act listed funding to be sent to the states for the administration of this plan, beginning at $13.5 billion in 1993 and reaching $38.3 billion in 2003.

Once in office, President Clinton quickly set up the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, headed by First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, to come up with a comprehensive plan to provide universal health care for all Americans, which was to be a cornerstone of the administration's first-term agenda. Clinton delivered a major health care speech to a joint session of Congress on September 22, 1993.[1] In that speech, Clinton explained the problem as follows:

Millions of Americans are just a pink slip away from losing their health insurance, and one serious illness away from losing all their savings. Millions more are locked into the jobs they have now just because they or someone in their family has once been sick and they have what is called the preexisting condition. And on any given day, over 37 million Americans—most of them working people and their little children—have no health insurance at all. And in spite of all this, our medical bills are growing at over twice the rate of inflation, and the United States spends over a third more of its income on health care than any other nation on Earth.

Hillary Rodham Clinton's leading role in this project was unprecedented for a presidential spouse.[2][3] This unusual decision by President Clinton to put his wife in charge of the project has been attributed to several factors, such as the President's desire to emphasize his personal commitment to the enterprise.[3]

Read More http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

Then this~

Hillary Clinton On Gay Rights Abroad: Secretary Of State Delivers Historic LGBT Speech In Geneva (VIDEO, FULL TEXT)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/hillary-clinton-gay-rights-speech-geneva_n_1132392.html

I didn't just fall of the turnip truck. I have been watching for years. She just wasn't for me in 2008, Obama was.

[Martin Eden]

77. Yes, I was.

I pay attention. I've been at DU since 2002, and a voter since 1976.

In a Democratic primary I cannot in good conscience support any candidate who voted to give GW Bush authority to invade Iraq. In unequivocal terms, a YES vote for the IWR in October 2002 was inexcusable and unforgivable. I don't trust Hillary Clinton in matters of war and peace.

Hillary is good on social issues, but that is an increasingly safe position these days. Her 1993 health care plan was far from what's needed, though ambitious for the time. Its failure was evidence of a political learning curve for the Clintons in national politics. She's ahead of the curve now but behind the leading edge of meaningful change, especially on economic issues. The Clinton presidency is synonymous with the DLC & Third Way and, if anything, Hillary has become more co-opted by the Powers That Be (read: Wall Street).

She is also orders of magnitude better than any prospective Republican opponent in the general election, and I will vote for the Democratic nominee. But I expect no meaningful change if it is Hillary Clinton.

All of which is besides the point concerning my response to your OP, to wit:
It makes no sense to support a candidate on the basis of being aggravated by those who voice opposition to that candidate.

[sheshe2]

78. And my post says I didn't

You said.

All of which is besides the point concerning my response to your OP, to wit:
It makes no sense to support a candidate on the basis of being aggravated by those who voice opposition to that candidate.

Did you miss what I said? Read what you wish. Interpret what you wish.

Me? I know me. This was my post to you.

Well, I have watched her for years...

I was alive during the Clinton years and paying attention. Were You?

Clinton health care plan of 1993

The Clinton health plan required each US citizen and permanent resident alien to become enrolled in a qualified health plan and forbade their disenrollment until covered by another plan. It listed minimum coverages and maximum annual out-of-pocket expenses for each plan. It proposed the establishment of corporate "regional alliances" of health providers to be subject to a fee-for-service schedule. People below a certain set income level were to pay nothing. The act listed funding to be sent to the states for the administration of this plan, beginning at $13.5 billion in 1993 and reaching $38.3 billion in 2003.

Once in office, President Clinton quickly set up the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, headed by First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, to come up with a comprehensive plan to provide universal health care for all Americans, which was to be a cornerstone of the administration's first-term agenda. Clinton delivered a major health care speech to a joint session of Congress on September 22, 1993. In that speech, Clinton explained the problem as follows:

Millions of Americans are just a pink slip away from losing their health insurance, and one serious illness away from losing all their savings. Millions more are locked into the jobs they have now just because they or someone in their family has once been sick and they have what is called the preexisting condition. And on any given day, over 37 million Americans—most of them working people and their little children—have no health insurance at all. And in spite of all this, our medical bills are growing at over twice the rate of inflation, and the United States spends over a third more of its income on health care than any other nation on Earth.

Hillary Rodham Clinton's leading role in this project was unprecedented for a presidential spouse. This unusual decision by President Clinton to put his wife in charge of the project has been attributed to several factors, such as the President's desire to emphasize his personal commitment to the enterprise.

Read More http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993


Then this~

Hillary Clinton On Gay Rights Abroad: Secretary Of State Delivers Historic LGBT Speech In Geneva (VIDEO, FULL TEXT)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/06/hillary-clinton-gay-rights-speech-geneva_n_1132392.html

I didn't just fall of the turnip truck. I have been watching for years. She just wasn't for me in 2008, Obama was.

[Martin Eden]

85. Your OP did not. Try reading your OP again.

Most of my previous post was a response to your first reply to me, which you entirely ignored in this latest reply.

The last part of my post (which you quoted above) was in reference to your OP.

Try reading it again (what you wrote to start this thread).

The gist of your OP is that you have decided to support Hillary because you're upset at her critics.

I responded with my "Really?" post because I think that is a very illogical criteria for supporting a politician. You responded to my first post with other reasons why you support Hillary Clinton for president. Fine. That makes more sense as criteria, though HC's record falls far short of what I can support as the standard bearer for what should be the Democratic Party.

[sheshe2]

89. Yet you were responding to post 68!

Get it, you responded to MY POST#68.

[Martin Eden]

95. Got it!

Do you get that in post #77 I responded to post #68, followed by an explanation why I responded to your OP?

None of which matters.

The substance of our ideas for supporting (or not supporting) a candidate is what matters.

Your OP had no merit on that substance, IMO.

And I have not yet heard a reasonable defense of HC's vote to give GW Bush authority to invade Iraq. Less than half the Dems in the House/Senate did at the time. We (our country) desperately needed strong Democratic leadership to stand up against that fraudulent rush to war. Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and John Kerry failed us miserably and forever lost my vote in any Democratic primary. That didn't stop me from taking 3 days off work in November to 2004 to drive to Ohio to help get the vote out for John Kerry, because the administration of GW Bush was an unmitigated disaster.

I don't really care about any politician. The cult of personality is a societal disease, IMO. I care about policy and a representative democracy that represents the interests of the vast majority of citizens. I have no illusions about the dysfunctional reality of our political system today. If I had to bet my hard earned pay on who will be the Democratic nominee for president, I'd put my money on Hillary Clinton.

And I would be truly disappointed, yet again, as I collected my bet. We need to do better.

[workinclasszero]

52. "I am now in the Hillary camp."

Thats great.

I lived long enough to see a Black man elected President of the United States, I hope to see the first woman President also.

2016!!!

[Corey_Baker08]

53. Welcome & Thank-You

[MellowDem]

58. You only support Hillary out of spite?

Sounds like a terrible way to make choices.

[JI7]

61. she already liked Hillary

But was open to other candidates . For those living in the real world is likely Hillary will win the nomination .

Since she is already defending Hillary she might as well get behind her .

[sheshe2]

71. Read post 68. nt

[shenmue]

62. Hear, hear!

[TheKentuckian]

63. Shocking! Wonder of wonders you came around to supporting who you already supported

and were going to support the whole way who embodies the exact brand of corporate enabling politics you always circle the wagons for.

The only "neat" trick is like any conservative (regardless of affiliation), you found a way to blame the liberals for your own long intended actions by channeling Lieberman's opposition to the Medicare buy in.

[cali]

69. lol. no kidding. disingenuous fluff.

[sheshe2]

80. Wow cali,

You just called me fluff. Nice, not.

Back off, you do not know me.

[cali]

111. i did not. i called your claim that you'd been pushed into

supporting HRC, fluff.

[sheshe2]

112. Not how I see it.

I never engage you. Yet you called me fluff. Yes you did.

I am not in the mood.

I'm gone.

[sheshe2]

70. Trust me on this,

it did indeed push me over. That picture of Hillary as an aging crone was posted in our new populists forum was the final straw.

Do not presume to know me, you don't. Especially since you said....

The only "neat" trick is like any conservative (regardless of affiliation), you found a way to blame the liberals for your own long intended actions by channeling Lieberman's opposition to the Medicare buy in.

You are calling me a conservative?

[TheKentuckian]

115. No, I'm reporting it. A radical regressive? No. Conservative? I've seen little that doesn't support

that from my point of view.

[Prism]

65. No one makes anyone do anything

I believe each of us are responsible for our own choices.

[cwydro]

79. Did someone here actually

call her an "aged crone"?

Wtf?

[sheshe2]

81. Give me a minute....

Gotta find the image.

[cwydro]

82. Oh dear.

That's going to poss me off.

Obviously I can't decide at this point who I'll support.

But I was a Hillary supporter way back in the day. I voted for Obama because he was the nominee, but I was not a supporter of his.

[cwydro]

83. But I don't like anti woman comments

in any context or of any type.

[sheshe2]

86. Me,

I was the Obama supporter. I respected her for all her work with health care. Yet she wasn't the one I stood for. It was always Obama then.

I so admire how she has evolved. I have posted links in this thread.

cwydro

[cwydro]

90. Thanks!

I wanted her to be the nominee back then, but I will always support the party.

Sometimes I wonder about our party though lol.

[sheshe2]

84. Not by word....

an Image from our new Populists Group. They thought it funny. They are Progressives?

It may take a minute to load.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12776005#post14

Me, I am one of those aging crones as well. Younger than Hillary, yet....

[cwydro]

87. Me too lol!

I know one can get garden gnomes - I'd like a garden crone!

Oh wait, I AM the garden crone!

I do wonder about the Hillary bashing; one can't help but think...well you know.

[sheshe2]

93. It is over the top~

I do wonder about the Hillary bashing; one can't help but think...well you know.

Here we be...

Garden Crones~



Hey, maybe it is just me, yet I think we are beautiful.

[freshwest]

113. Think I'll use that in an OP I'm planning... n/t

[sheshe2]

117. Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[freshwest]

118. It'll probably be in HRC and HOF with graphic warnings, so beware. n/t

[sheshe2]

119. You doing it tonight, freshwest?

I will watch for it, but going to try to make it an early night.

[freshwest]

120. Making an early night of it, too, so don't wait up. n/t

[hrmjustin]

88. He is on a 6 hide vacation now.

[sheshe2]

96. Thank you!

I love you Justin. I really do.

[hrmjustin]

98. I love you too She!

[sheshe2]

100. I got your back.

[hrmjustin]

101. And i yours.

[sheshe2]

103. Thanks, lol~

I do believe I need it.

[hrmjustin]

104. You are loved here.

[Jamastiene]

97. I was a Hillary supporter in '08,

but have since learned a few things that disturb me. I won't bash her looks or any of that other sexist stuff, because what she looks like or not, what she wears or not, and other stuff like that doesn't matter to me at all. I do have a few questions on her foreign policy and a few other things she says and does that reek of right wing tendencies that I don't trust.

Still, I get the gist of what you are saying and I have to say I agree. The whole thing has been disrespectful when they are talking about what she looks like and other petty crap like that. The ones that have legitimate questions about some of her policies, I don't hold that against them, because I have my doubts too. The ones that harp on her looks need to be shut down for the misogyny they are spouting. Women have enough bullshit to deal with without having to put up with that even in the Democratic Party, which is supposed to stand FOR women not against women.

So, K&R

[sheshe2]

99. Jamastiene, thank you for your calm thoughtful post.

I too want to know some answers to my questions. I believe we will see them. I also know she will be carrying on much of what Obama has already accomplished. She is not running from him. Yup, I know many here do not think that is a good thing, they hate him.

Yet, that man brought us back from the brink Bushco took us. We didn't have one foot over the the cliff, we were in free fall. His detractors do not remember that. He has done all of this against all the ugly hate and a congress that has been refusing to do anything. Me, I believe Hillary has evolved and will continue to move us forward.

I believe that. I sure as hell will do my best not to have a GOP President once again. If we do, we will surely die a very painful death.

Thank you.

[Iliyah]

105. As a Trekker, I watched "Star Talk" on NatGeo with Neal D T

last night. The future, where mankind on earth finally resolved their differences and hatred and ventured to the stars.

The USA cannot even comes close to that reality (science) when GOP/RW/Libertarians are trying to take control.

That said, when people know the truths from their past they can reach for the future, together.

I am a HRC supporter.

p.s. Grandpa introduced me to the original Star Trek series from 1966 - 1969, he is forever original Star Trek fan - Trekker, and so am I.