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Thu Apr 9, 2015, 12:28 PM

If there's one thing I simply cannot stand, it's poverty shaming.

Recently a person on my Facebook page indignantly posted her dismay that when driving by the local food bank, she saw a woman pick up food and put it in her late model car. The obvious insinuation there was that this individual had the money to spend on a new/newer car but couldn't be bothered to pay for her own groceries, and perhaps even that she was somehow gaming the system.

Of course, such a knee-jerk reaction (with emphasis on jerk) immediately discounts other logical possibilities:

1. The woman was picking up food not for herself, but for someone else who didn't have access to a car.
2. The woman didn't own the car herself but was borrowing it from a friend for need of transportation
3. The woman had recently been able to afford to buy a new car but due to a sudden change in circumstances (job loss, illness, etc.) was in need of financial assistance.

And there are other possibilities as well. People in poverty can still drive cars, even newer model ones. That doesn't make them poor, nor should it disqualify them from financial help.

The bottom line here is simple: If you don't know the circumstances behind what you are seeing, kindly shut up. It's none of your business and it's inappropriate to pass judgment on someone who very likely is struggling immensely and whose life may be a living hell. I'll freely admit that I sometimes give a dollar to the person on the street corner with a "Hungry, Please Help" sign. Yes, I know there's the possibility that person may use that dollar for alcohol or drugs instead of for food. Yes, it may be possible the person actually isn't homeless and is playing a scam. But you know what? It's a dollar. A dollar of mine that probably would go towards buying a candy bar that would go to my waistline. If the person is in fact scamming me, that's on their conscience, not mine. I won't miss that dollar, and if the person is in fact in need of help and would use that dollar wisely, I'd much rather give them that dollar than snidely pass judgment on them.

Now there's efforts afoot in numerous states to prohibit people on food stamps from buying certain items of food such as steak or seafood. Because God forbid they or the family eat the same food as the rest of us.

Some of these people, I swear, I think they think you aren't actually poor unless you are wearing a potato sack and eating nothing but bread and water. And if you are wearing a potato sack and eating only bread and water, they'd still knock you for being "lazy". It's a total lose-lose.

What makes some people feel the need to be so callous to pass such judgment, and to assume that if you're poor, you're either a fraud or lazy and unmotivated?

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Reply If there's one thing I simply cannot stand, it's poverty shaming. (Original post)
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 OP
Zorra Apr 2015 #1
liberal N proud Apr 2015 #2
Half-Century Man Apr 2015 #26
Ed Suspicious Apr 2015 #42
Voice for Peace Apr 2015 #55
Califa Apr 2015 #43
merrily Apr 2015 #49
NancyDL Apr 2015 #67
Name removed Apr 2015 #77
Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #3
wendylaroux Apr 2015 #4
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 #5
appalachiablue Apr 2015 #6
jeff47 Apr 2015 #7
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 #8
taught_me_patience Apr 2015 #20
jeff47 Apr 2015 #29
maddiemom Apr 2015 #36
Nay Apr 2015 #65
happyslug Apr 2015 #56
IronLionZion Apr 2015 #91
Retrograde Apr 2015 #9
snort Apr 2015 #10
Enthusiast Apr 2015 #11
daleanime Apr 2015 #12
blackspade Apr 2015 #13
tclambert Apr 2015 #14
hibbing Apr 2015 #23
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 #30
maddiemom Apr 2015 #37
Agony Apr 2015 #61
Name removed Apr 2015 #78
IronLionZion Apr 2015 #90
AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #15
Thav Apr 2015 #33
renate Apr 2015 #41
merrily Apr 2015 #51
Ed Suspicious Apr 2015 #44
catrose Apr 2015 #89
Helen Borg Apr 2015 #16
inanna Apr 2015 #60
treestar Apr 2015 #71
nolabear Apr 2015 #17
merrily Apr 2015 #18
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 #19
merrily Apr 2015 #25
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 #39
merrily Apr 2015 #47
gollygee Apr 2015 #46
merrily Apr 2015 #48
Name removed Apr 2015 #79
ananda Apr 2015 #21
Name removed Apr 2015 #80
StarzGuy Apr 2015 #22
ErikJ Apr 2015 #24
Warpy Apr 2015 #27
Paper Roses Apr 2015 #40
Name removed Apr 2015 #81
KT2000 Apr 2015 #28
Amimnoch Apr 2015 #31
tanyev Apr 2015 #32
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 #34
NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #52
Joe Chi Minh Apr 2015 #35
Stellar Apr 2015 #38
dolphinsandtuna Apr 2015 #45
McCamy Taylor Apr 2015 #50
Orsino Apr 2015 #53
Voice for Peace Apr 2015 #54
Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #57
JDPriestly Apr 2015 #58
greymattermom Apr 2015 #59
Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2015 #62
cynzke Apr 2015 #63
GoneFishin Apr 2015 #64
NancyDL Apr 2015 #66
treestar Apr 2015 #70
PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #74
butterfly77 Apr 2015 #68
treestar Apr 2015 #69
Liberal_in_LA Apr 2015 #72
murielm99 Apr 2015 #73
lexington filly Apr 2015 #75
Name removed Apr 2015 #76
Name removed Apr 2015 #82
IronLionZion Apr 2015 #83
Name removed Apr 2015 #84
DesertDiamond Apr 2015 #85
On the Road Apr 2015 #86
Gormy Cuss Apr 2015 #88
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2015 #87

Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 12:34 PM

1. Well said. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 12:34 PM

2. Welfare queens and their Cadillacs has long been a right wing lie, now they are claiming they go

on lavish cruises.

The right wing is good at spreading false propaganda regarding the poor and welfare recipients.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:43 PM

26. I don't think their anger is directed specifically at poor persons getting cruses.

The RW has to acknowledge cruses are given out as prizes sometimes, people can get gifts from relatives, or any number of circumstances.
I don't think they are opposed to poor people on boats.

But the fact they aren't chained to a bench and rowing seems troublesome.

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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 01:20 PM

42. You had me worried for a half second. Brilliant.

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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 04:32 PM

55. !!!

 

yeah..

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 01:23 PM

43. The real Welfare queens in Cadillacs,

Rolls Royce, porches, and such go to their welfare office to game the system with the help of their Congressional case worker.

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Response to Califa (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:34 PM

49. Bingo!

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Response to Califa (Reply #43)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:55 PM

67. By Welfare Office...

I'm assuming you mean the Federal Reserve Board and other agencies that regulate banks and the banksters, and the people involved in handing out the corporate welfare - great gobs of cash to businesses.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #2)


Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 12:44 PM

3. A jump to conclusion may be this mother may be trying to provide her children food and we know

the GOP hates abortions and now the poor mother still has to feel the children. It may be a mother in an abusive home trying to remove herself and children from the abuse. There are rules to get food from many of the food banks I know about. Yes, a knee jerk reaction.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 12:53 PM

4. Believe you me,

people would not be at food pantries unless they had no other alternative.

Kicking people when they are down,where is the humanity?

Disgusting

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Response to wendylaroux (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 01:18 PM

5. There's a definite disconnect in certain people's heads.

The notion that people on public assistance relish being on it is a huge strawman.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 01:26 PM

6. THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I. Attacks on the poor receiving public assistance have increased

fourfold in the last 5-20 years thanks to Hate Media- radio, TV & internet. It's everywhere & it's huge. Browbeating, condemning & hating the less advantaged, esp. by PROSPERITY CHRISTIANS are widely encouraged by the Right, to accomplish their goal of cutting all safety net programs to benefit the wealthiest who want to pay Zero taxes. How blind & stupid people really are is frightening. Now, The Food Pantry Citizen Patrol-

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 01:29 PM

7. Another thing to keep in mind on the "fancy car" angle.

Is that the used market for high-end cars is really, really cheap.

There's a huge premium on the new cars, but a 5-year-old C-class Mercedes costs about the same as a 5-year-old Camry. Because the people paying for the Mercedes want the prestige of the new car, or lease so that they always get newer cars. So there's not much demand for the used ones. Meanwhile, the people looking for the Camry really don't mind if it's 5 years old.

The price difference is even more stark when you're talking about less-popular brands...like Cadillac.

That leads to a whole lot of crap like "but she was driving a Mercedes to the food bank! She should sell it and buy a cheaper car!". She wouldn't get much for a used Mercedes, and the cars will run for a very long time even without "proper" maintenance.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:07 PM

20. nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes

 

They will completely and totally nickel and dime you to death. I know from first hand experience, and I'm quite good at fixing my own car. An older used luxury car is NOT a good financial decision at all.

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Response to taught_me_patience (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 04:32 PM

29. You know what's more expensive? A loan on a "cheap" car after

selling the paid-off Mercedes.

You'll note I did not advocate that they buy a used luxury car. But if they have one from more affluent times, selling it is not often a good decision.

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Response to taught_me_patience (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 10:00 AM

36. It all depends on the individual make and car.

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:41 AM

65. Very, very true. I owned a Lexus for 19 years; it took us through thick and thin, never

left us high and dry. If we had fallen into poverty, it never would have been worth more than several thousand dollars but was worth much more than that in simple reliability. We have recently replaced that Lexus with -- a year-old hybrid Lexus. My old baby is still running fine; I sold it to a relative for a dollar!

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 05:43 PM

56. I once went by a welfare office where a co-workers said they were all in late model cars

 

Then I looked at the cars, and they were about 10 years old. Most people have NO idea the age of most cars. If the car was made sometime since a major style change it is a "New Car" even if it is 20 years old. While the "Ideal" length of a car model is about six years, many are in production for 15 (I am excluding the VW Golf/Rabbit, which has been in production for 40 years). There are slight model changes from year to year, but even most young teen males no longer know the difference between this years model and last years model (prior to the 1970s and the huge increase in the models each car makers made, many males did know the difference, but that more or less died out in the 1960s as car makers introduced mid-Sized, then Compact, then Sub compact cars).

Till the late 1970s, one way to tell if a car was more then five years old, was by the rust it had. The problem is starting in the 1970s (and in response to Japanese Car makers rust resistant cars) even US cars started NOT to rust after five years. Thus a ten year old car could look just like a new made car if given a new coat of wax.

I work with low income people and I have to ask them what they are driving, it is are to find any of them driving anything newer then something 10 years old, they can NOT afford anything newer (and really can not afford anything older, older cars cost a lot to keep on the road for cars are only design to last 10 years). At the same time I deal with people who say they see people going to welfare offices in new cars, often poor people I work with. The reason these people see the poor is "Late Model" cars is as follows:

1: most people have no idea how old most cars are, unless the car is a Land yacht from the early 1970s, most look very similar and have since the 1970s.

2. Poor people like 8 cylinder engines, for the simple reason V-8s tend to last a lot longer then smaller four and six cylinder engines. As people since the 1970s have switched to six instead of V-8s, sixes are becoming more popular, but larger engines can take a lot more abuse then smaller engines, thus poor people tend to buy larger cars

3. The After market for Mid Size and Large Cars are limited. Europe tolerates them, but they are liked in the Mid East and Latin America in addition to the US. On the other hand the East Indies and Southern Europe like smaller cars. This has been the trend for decades. Many small used cars when traded in end up in Southern Europe or the East Indies, for both areas are willing to pay more for those cars then many poor Americas are willing to do so. A Thus we have a lot of used mid size and large cars in the US that stay in the US for 10-20 years, while a lot of smaller cars are shipped overseas.

4. A lot of Americans believe that if you are driving a large car, it is a late model car, while if you are driving a compact car, it is used for they would NEVER buy one. Thus if the poor person is driving a Cadillac it must be a late model, even if it is 10-20 years old.

5. Prior to the 1970s, the best way to see the age of a car was how rusted out it was. With the improvements in Rust protection starting in the 1970s, Rust is rare even in ten year old cars, but the perception that older cars must have rust persists. Thus any car with just minimal rust must be a late model car, not a car 10-20 years old.

Just a comment in that most people when looking at such cars see what they want to see NOT what before they eyes.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 08:30 AM

91. If someone has a nice car and then loses their income

there really is no point selling their car without losing even more money, and then buying some cheap used car that they don't know what's wrong with it and needs lots of expensive repairs. A car that you have bought new and know all about it is worth keeping, especially if its paid off.



The real people gaming the system are the ones who spend millions on lobbyists and bought congresspeople to influence favorable legislation.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:27 PM

9. I've been in category 3

had a good paying, stable job and decided to splurge on a higher end car than the VW I'd been driving for 15 years. Paid cash for it, since I didn't want to go into debt, and that got me a better price. Then six months later we had a change of management and layoffs, so I got to make my first visit to the unemployment bureau in a relatively new nice car.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:27 PM

10. As far as I can determine, looking at their website

is that taking a cruise on Carnival includes meals. I am assuming that their competition is going to offer the same deal.

Nothing but total fuckheads being total fuckheads.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:33 PM

11. The Facebook lady is a victim of a cruel misinformation campaign being waged by the

political right. You can hear it on Fox and Hate Radio. And it is even reinforced by mainstream media. Horrible.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:38 PM

12. Hell yes.....

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:42 PM

13. Because the world is full of self rightous assholes.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:44 PM

14. For fear that one undeserving person might get aid, Republicans are willing to let millions starve.

"What if a poor person buys drugs with the money instead of food? We should dismantle all social programs just in case!"

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Response to tclambert (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:16 PM

23. charity

When I give money to someone panhandling on the street I do not set any prerequisites about what the money will be used for, nor do I care. People say oh, you should give it to a shelter or go and buy the person lunch. If that works for you, that's fine. I just give them money and if they use to go buy food, beer, or whatever, I don't really care. If I was in their circumstances I would probably want to spend it on something to lessen the pain, at least temporarily.

Peace

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Response to hibbing (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 08:53 PM

30. Exactly.

The chance that my dollar will go towards that person getting food far outweighs any concerns that it won't.

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Response to hibbing (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 10:05 AM

37. Let me guess: you're NOT a Republican.

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Response to hibbing (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 07:14 PM

61. Double thumbs up to you!

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Response to hibbing (Reply #23)


Response to hibbing (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 08:24 AM

90. Some cities discourage panhandling

they put up signs saying it is illegal and that people shouldn't give money because then it encourages more panhandlers and for them to be more aggressive.


In other countries there are much darker things that you don't want to know about. Like adults deliberately injuring kids so they can get more.


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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:46 PM

15. The shaming is downright mean-spirited.

 

I remember the nuns in Catholic school when I was in about the fourth grade would read what each child gave at church in their Sunday envelopes. One girl's family was really poor and she gave 3-cents. The class erupted in laughter. I will never forget it. It was at that moment that I started to really despise the Catholic church.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 09:16 AM

33. And yet those 3 cents

were more valuable to God than the rest of the offering combined.

It is really amazing and frustrating how many people ignore the compassionate parts of the bible.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 12:41 PM

41. I actually gasped when I read that

I hope the nuns reminded the class about the widow's mite.

That poor girl. That's the kind of moment that can stay with you for a lifetime.

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Response to renate (Reply #41)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:38 PM

51. There is no reason to read donations of children to the class.

Very obviously, it's what their parents gave them to donate. If anyone has a problem with the amount, take it up with the parents--and even then, do it privately.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 01:37 PM

44. That story brings tears to my eyes. What terrible terrible people. What would Jesus say?

I'm not a Christian, but I despise that I seem to follow his teachings more so than many of the self-professed Christians I know. This sort of attitude flows to the children as well.

I remember in eight grade at St. Patrick's catholic school . . . I was a young, fragile, awkward teen with an acne problem. I was new to the school the year before, so I wasn't in any way a part of the in-crowd. My family was poor so we were always slightly out of place at school surrounded by so many who could afford private school without assistance. One day I arrived at homeroom to most of the class enthusiastically greeting me at the door. They welcomed me in. Told me that it was my lucky day. I was to go to the front of the class to open the beautifully wrapped gift they got for me. It was a small box wrapped in red paper with a gold bow on top. I was nervous, but naive enough to not really suspect anything would be amiss. The class gazed upon me at the head of the class as I unwrapped the box. The wrapping paper gave way revealing, to my horror, a box that contained a bottle of Oxy-10. Oh the laughter was uproarious. I cried my teenage insecure eyes out on that day right in full view of the entire class where they giggled and assured me that no slight was intended. The whole ceremony was all done in my interest. Thanks to my class I could finally have fewer zits on my face. They felt so proud that they pulled this off so expertly.

Your story brought me right back to the mean-spirited assholes at catholic school from the Nuns to the priests to the principle, to the teachers, to the students. It was all about pointing out difference and deficiency. It was all about casting out the other.

Fuck them all.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 04:22 PM

89. Didn't Jesus say something about giving in secret...

I don't remember the verse about your teacher reading it aloud in front of the class. I do remember that the widow's mite was more pleasing to God because she gave all she had.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:48 PM

16. The other, related one, is profession shaming.

Why is it seen as humiliating to be a janitor? Why do many people feel entitled to look down at janitors and cleaning people? As if they were somewhat subhuman? I keep seeing it everywhere.

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Response to Helen Borg (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 07:14 PM

60. Around here cleaning jobs can pay $21.75/hr (SEIU)

Certainly not always, but they are available.I know, because I just applied for one.

And you are correct: there will be those who try to shame me, but it never works. I could survive (on that wage) decently, even if it was only part-time.

Keeping fingers crossed, and thanks for your comments.

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Response to Helen Borg (Reply #16)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 04:10 PM

71. or the do you want fries with that

shaming of people who work in fast food stores.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:49 PM

17. You mean you don't want approved stores that sell plain clothes and cheap goods?

What's wrong with you, man? You know those on public assistance should only wear homespun and in shades of brown. Good, sturdy stuff that stands out so they can be carefully monitored as they buy basic, generic food and cast-off vehicles. The vehicles of course should be marked so the police can keep an eye on them should they try to sneak into entertainment venues.

Wait, I have an idea! Let's provide living quarters in exchange for work and have them all live there. Work machs one frei, right?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:54 PM

18. The only assumption here seemed to be that the woman picking up the groceries was not poor at all.

It may well have been an incorrect assumption, but I don't see any assumptions about what people who are actually poor are like.

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Response to merrily (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:02 PM

19. But immediately jumping to that conclusion is just as wrong.

Essentially, it is claiming that someone is only poor because he or she spends their money on luxury goods instead of food. When the facts behind the situation aren't known at all.

Sorry, but immediately jumping to that conclusion is just as offensive an assumption.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:25 PM

25. Yes, immediately jumping to that conclusion is wrong, but it's not saying a thing about the poor.

If you think, mistakenly or not, that a woman is not poor, nothing you say about her reflects on the poor.

Not sure why you are not seeing that.

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Response to merrily (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 10:36 AM

39. It's one of those situations though where it's best to keep one's mouth shut.

Don't get me wrong, we are all human. We all have gut, instinctual reactions to situations, and not all of them are pretty.

But it's smart to evaluate the situation in your head before opening your mouth or writing something for others to see, because if you do let everyone know your gut reaction about a situation where you don't know all the facts, you become part of the problem. Like it or not.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:10 PM

47. Yes. Leaping to conclusions is wrong and so is spreading them around.

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Response to merrily (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:07 PM

46. Yeah it is

I see what your point is but I think you're derailing rather than hearing what the OP is saying. Poor people are very, very often judged to not actually be poor and instead to be scammers. That is an assumption made about poor people, whether she thinks they're poor or not.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #46)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:15 PM

48. My Reply 25 said jumping to the conclusion that someone is not poor (not in need) is wrong.

Different example: Suppose I say that millionaires abuse, or skam, the bankruptcy system by filing bankruptcy again and again to get out of paying their debts. (Think the Trump filings.)

Have I intended to say anything about poor people who file for bankruptcy because they genuinely have no other choice?

I don't think I have. I think I intended to shame people with money who take advantage of a program they should not be taking advantage of, perhaps to the detriment of people who do need that program.

That said, very obviously, I am not defending shaming people who are poor.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #46)


Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:11 PM

21. Agree.

Poverty shaming is wrong on so many levels.

I just wish all this inhumanity toward other
humans would come to its natural end.

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Response to ananda (Reply #21)


Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:13 PM

22. I can sympathize because I am one...

...due to now being 100% disabled rely on St. Marys Food Bank to supplement for food when I run out of my disability benefits usually around the middle of each month. I do have a 2005 truck which is paid off. Most of my benefits go to rent, utilities and food. I do not qualify for food stamps nor qualify for rent subsidies. I do have a small pension. So, combined I am a tweener, too rich (really?) to qualify for other benefits and too poor to make ends meet each month. I live alone, no family and disabled. Forgive me for wanting to watch a movie or two on my Direct TV.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:16 PM

24. What did the FB poster say?

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:52 PM

27. There is always shaming involved if you're poor

even if food bank volunteers try to avoid it, because the worst shaming comes from yourself.

It's none of my business what somebody is driving when they're putting EBT card groceries into it. It's none of my business what the groceries are (hey Mr. politician, when your kids cry from hunger, three or four chips will last them until the starchy casserole hits the table) although I do look for tips for the next time poverty moves in with me like a disliked relative. It's none of my business what they're wearing, it's none of my business if they haven't hocked their wedding rings.

It is my business that Walmart is now the higher priced store, that poor folks are stocking up across the street at the Dollar Stores with expired or nearly expired food and just topping up at Wally's. It's my business that most of these folks have jobs but are being crushed between low wages and high prices. It's my business that conservatives have turned this country into a living hell for most working people.

I remember when it was better.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 11:01 AM

40. Well said, Warpy. There by the grace of....etc

OK, so I'm not a believer but the phrase has no equal.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #27)


Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2015, 04:24 PM

28. Our newspaper poll of the day

"Who is lazier, rich or poor people?"
Of course the majority say poor.

The real question is - why would the paper post such a question? Oh yea - they are RWers.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 09:12 AM

31. If someone is poor, and has a car as good or better than the one they drive, then it's possible that

 

they could end up being poor too.

It's a form of Agoraphobia. It's a subconscious belief that as long as people who are poor look like they are poor, then the persons making the observation can't possibly be poor themselves.

This seems to be extremely prevalent in those with conservative values. It's not at all unlike those same people automatically believing those who make more money, or have more stuff to be smarter, harder working, more worth while to listen to, and more important that everyone else.. even including themselves, because it's their desire to be more like that person.. it's also a huge driver in the taking on of tremendous debt to personify that condition to the best of their own ability.

Quite pitiable imo.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 09:13 AM

32. My (very wealthy) former mother-in-law insisted I go apply for food stamps

after her son and I moved and it took longer for me to find work than she thought it should. (Three whole months!) I was politely turned away after a quick glance at my application showed that we had two fairly new model cars, not even expensive ones. Dear mother-in-law continued to help us so we didn't have to sell the reliable cars we needed to get ourselves to the jobs we eventually found, but she definitely thought it would be a cakewalk to stroll into a food stamp office and get approved. Oh yes, she also thought I wasn't trying hard enough to find a job.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 09:19 AM

34. As a complete aside....

Last edited Fri Apr 10, 2015, 03:13 PM - Edit history (2)

.....I'd like to welcome the fine five or six so folks from the Right Wing Neanderthal Dwelling Place who are currently lurking in the shadows as we speak.

I'm proud of you folks. I know you are very busy mocking people who have just died or are seriously ill, so to take time away from that really means a lot. Really, it does. Your comment about George Zimmerman was just so ironic, but not in the way you think it is.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:43 PM

52. Ditto- I wish they would tell us how poor people are the problem, not the Koch Bros, etal

Also, I consider it an act of violence when someone says or does something that interferes or could interfere with someone getting food or shelter.

I think anyone who shames the poor is a violent person who must be dealt with.

First, we deal with them with words and reason, if that doesnt work we try and get politics to fix it, if that doesnt work...


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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 09:47 AM

35. If this isn't the last word on poverty and wealth distribution (Comment on Ambrose copied fromWiki),

I don't know what is. And almost as beautiful are those of St Basil, below it:

'Ambrose considered the poor not a distinct group of outsiders, but a part of the united, solidary people. Giving to the poor was not to be considered an act of generosity towards the fringes of society but as a repayment of resources that God had originally bestowed on everyone equally and that the rich had usurped.[30]

St Ambrose

-------------------------------------------------

"Who is the covetous man? One for whom plenty is not enough. Who is the defrauder? One who takes away what belongs to everyone. And are not you covetous, are you not a defrauder, when you keep for private use what you were given for distribution? When some one strips a man of his clothes we call him a thief. And one who might clothe the naked and does not—should not he be given the same name? The bread in your hoard belongs to the hungry; the cloak in your wardrobe belongs to the naked; the shoes you let rot belong to the barefoot; the money in your vaults belongs to the destitute. All you might help and do not—to all these you are doing wrong"

Bishop Basil of Caesarea (330-379 AD)

Perfect equality is not really the issue in practical terms, given that some are more innately worldly and others, more spiritual, due to the Fall. But an ample sufficiency for the poorest in this world's goods is surely not going to hurt those better off. It didn't in the UK during the sixties and seventies.

Some church traditionalists vilify the sixties, and certainly, from a Christian point of view, the pendulum swung too far towards promiscuity and has anything but recoverd, but it was a new Renaissance, there was also a tremendously 'up-beat' zeitgeist, a joy, a cheerfulness. The subsequent degeneration with the plunge into cynicism of most former hippies was inevitable given the wealth and power of the 'deep state' who had just been biding their time. What a shame the Christian churches, for all the massive amount of good they had done and have continued to do in the world, let the young down. Their thirst for spirituality, scorned by the rich Mammon-worshippers to this day, was not assuaged by eastern religions or drugs, and eventually, as the song goes, 'the music stopped.

I know Don MacLean had other ideas when he wrote Bye Bye Miss American Pie, but to me the tapering off, during the seventies, of all those wonderful pop groups with the craziest names, and the pop songs, also often with the craziest words and themes is very, very sad. Reagan and Lady Cardboard put paid to the beautiful nonsense so loved by the young - and even the great songs of the more orthodox singers.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 10:29 AM

38. I retired from the department of human service about ten years ago and

they would allow you to own a late model car if it was your current and only form of transportation, and would give you gas money for it. (I think it was like .15 cents a mile, don't recall) The gas money was for job search only. Not much...but you'd have to keep your receipts to get your money back. I recall seeing kids with 'Air Jordans' on...what was it, a couple hundred dollars a pair back then. The family had beautiful clothing to wear, and a beautiful home.

It's hard to go from good living to nothing and a company that you worked for has gone bankrupt, or moved out of the country - - or downsized. The people caught up in it don't like it no better than those pointing their fingers, believe me.

Eventually the family would sell the car if they couldn't afford to keep it, they'd have to move from their home that they no longer can afford. And yes, they do feel ashamed that they are poor.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 01:50 PM

45. here's another one - handicapped

 

Don't assume that someone walking to or from a car with a handicapped placard is not handicapped. Do not get in their face and start screaming at them. Did it ever occur to you that they might have a heart condition, you effing moron?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:37 PM

50. K&R

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 02:49 PM

53. The forces that own the piano, the chairs, and the rights to the song...

...don't get to criticize those of us left without a seat when their music stops.

Neither do those of us who managed to sit down.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 04:31 PM

54. I feel the same way. People are always making excuses for their own miserable lives.

 

Looking for ways to blame it on anything else, like
how the poor spend their foodstamps.

It's their miserable lives, not mine, not yours,
for which I'm very glad.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 06:27 PM

57. I've met poor whites that are CONVINCED there is a type of welfare only available to blacks.

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 06:39 PM

58. K&R.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 07:04 PM

59. And, if you give a dollar directly to a person who needs it

No middle man, no advertising, 100% of that dollar goes to that person. So what if 50% is used for something enjoyable.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Apr 10, 2015, 09:01 PM

62. Myths that really frost me because I have to debunk them again and again

1. People on food stamps buy steak and lobster while I (the right-wing person) can't afford them. I won't have people buying steak and lobster at the expense of us poor, strapped taxpayers!

Such wingers seem to assume that food stamp recipients can just go get more when their EBT funds run out. They don't realize that their monthly allotment is their monthly allotment and that they can't go and get more if they run out. They're stuck till the next month. It would be stupid for a food stamp recipient to buy steak and lobster on limited funds, but from the taxpayer's point of view, it's no different than if the recipient lives entirely on rice and beans. The cost to the taxpayer is exactly the same.

2. The "Obama Phone"

Never mind that this is just an updated form of a program that was started by Ronald Reagan. Never mind that the phone comes with limited minutes and no Internet service. The righties' fevered imaginations picture teenage mothers walking around with free iPhone 6's.

What the righties forget is that you can get a smartphone for free if you sign up for a monthly plan and accept an outdated model. This is cheaper than a land line, and I doubt that the average right winger can tell the difference between a 2015 Samsung phone and a 2012 Samsung phone or between an iPhone 5C (available free with contract) and an iPhone 6 (starting at $299 with contract).

3. Ninety-fve percent of so-called poor people have refrigerators, and the majority have air conditioning! I can't afford air conditioning!

Landlords are required by law to provide refrigerators in their apartments, and most apartments these days are either built with air conditioning or (like my older building) have rattly old window models installed.

4. "But they have DVD players!"

I suppose these complainers bought their DVD player when the things were new and cost $500. Well, they cost about $30 now, and with movies only $1.25 at RedBox or free from the public library, there's no cheaper entertainment available other than books from the library. But anyway, as all right-wingers know, poor people aren't supposed to have fun.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:58 AM

63. There has been a deliberate campaign....

over the years by the GOP and their supporters to turn the poor into social pariah to be hated and despised. The idea is to make these people so repugnant that no one will be upset or concerned while the GOP cuts funding for social programs. They need to find revenue to replace the money lost by tax reductions and loopholes for the wealthy. This campaign is working. Expect to see a reinforcement of this campaign in the next election cycle..

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:00 AM

64. K & R

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:52 PM

66. From what I see on discussion boards, and, mind you, I know they're not the world...

... a lot of folk in the US watch each other like hawks - just looking for something wrong, looking for something to be upset about. What this country needs is a big dose of charity - and I don't mean like giving things away; I mean like showing some care for each other, giving each other the benefit of the doubt. Americans used to have solidarity, and they used to be proud to be Americans; now they're going at each other like rats in the middle cage. This is what's tearing the country apart. We need some ideas on how to bring people together.

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Response to NancyDL (Reply #66)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 04:08 PM

70. Yep, you see it right here

Deliberate exaggerations and mischaracterizations all with a tone of Yay! I caught someone saying something wrong!

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Response to NancyDL (Reply #66)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:10 PM

74. "We need some ideas on how to bring people together."

 

Socialism.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 04:01 PM

68. Kicked&Recommended...

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 04:07 PM

69. Agree. The most pathetic thing about right wingers

is this. They are so worried that somewhere somehow some person might be getting something, no matter how small, they don't "deserve." They are so busy finding people to judge. They are desperate to find someone they can claim is doing something wrong, so they can feel superior or secure somehow. So worried about what other people are doing. People they don't know, whose business they don't know, that must be doing something wrong!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 05:23 PM

72. kick

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:06 PM

73. There was a lady who went to my church

some years ago who had to become a welfare mom. Her husband left her with five children. She had a nice, new car. It was paid for. The departed husband had purchased it. It was a wonder he had not taken the car when he left.

I was glad she had the car. I remember a conversation I had with her about the car. It helped her get around when she had to find a job. I know she was self-conscious about the car. I am sure there were people who had commented on it, and that was why she said anything at all.

People need to mind their own business.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 03:19 AM

75. Without a big down payment, a friend couldn't finance a used car unless

it was a later model!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 07:28 AM

83. Plenty of people feel jealous that others are getting more than they deserve

The nonsense coming from people with political agendas makes it worse. The welfare queen myth is often used to cover up the fact that welfare is drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of billions of tax dollars given to wealthy folks through tax deductions, subsidies, bailouts, and other ways.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #83)


Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 11:23 AM

85. This started with the Reagan administration in the 1980s, specifically to make us resent the poor

which was especially important for them to do because there were more and more poor during the "economic boom" that trickle down economics brought on. Shame the poor, make others despise them, make them ashamed of themselves. Greed is the true virtue! Rush Limbaugh promoted the meme of seeing a woman using food stamps and then driving away in a fancy SUV was repeated so many times that friends of mine were telling me the story and were sure they themselves had witnessed such an event.

And how do the promoters of this idea benefit from it? If we allow all protections to be taken away from the poor, they will be forced to turn to religious charities for help. It's already true where I live to some degree - there are no nonsecular food banks, so anyone who goes to them for food has to sit through a lecture about religion. In fact they are trying to turn everything in this country religion based. Then they will have what they want - a theocracy.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 12:44 PM

86. Personally, I Don't Care About People "Abusing the System"

and as you point out there are potentially other interpretations of the situation. But going to a food bank if you do own a late-model car is either gaming the system or the height of financial irresponsibility. I really don't see how it can defended by anyone familiar with how the bottom 10% lives.

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Response to On the Road (Reply #86)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 01:06 PM

88. I care about people abusing the system

but I have enough professional experience to tell me that a) most 'abuse' is in the form of minor infracations and b)the fraud systems in place catch most big abusers rather quickly. Thus, I don't stay up nights worrying about food and purchases by the vast majority of recipients who are just trying to get by.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 12:49 PM

87. I saw this also posted on my Facebook page today and it makes a lot more sense to me.

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