Indiana Governor: New Law 'Not About Discrimination'

[caraher]

Apparently George Stefanopoulos asked him six times to deny that the law protects anti-gay discrimination, and six times Pence refused to deny it.

Pence, a Republican, did not answer directly when asked six times whether under the law it would be legal for a merchant to refuse to serve gay customers. "This is not about discrimination, this is about empowering people to confront government overreach," he said. Asked again, he said, "Look, the issue here is still is tolerance a two-way street or not."

Thank you, that's all the "clarification" we need.

[onecaliberal]

1. There is no government overreach.

He can't answer the question directly because he knows damn well it is ALL about discrimination.

[Cryptoad]

23. They should movve the final four out of state!

[onecaliberal]

43. They're nothing but bigots and haters.

[stillwaiting]

2. They want to be able to discriminate and NOT be called out for it.

It's not EVER going to work that way assholes.

[calimary]

37. Exactly. That's because they've been so successful at it up until recently.

That's because, FOR YEARS, they've been able to reframe things and focus-test terminology and memes and slogans and bumper-stickers, tailored to capturing something subliminal within the short-attention-span electorate. These are cheap-ass tactics that more often than not actually spell out the OPPOSITE meaning of what the actual words suggest.

"Pro-life." (Oh yeah? You're the ones who shoot doctors, harass and threaten women, and try to cut the social safety net that's often the ONLY life support available to the struggling - and maybe she was raped - mother of another unwanted child.)
"Right to work." (Oh yeah? You really mean "right to work FOR LESS," screw the workers, no rights, no restrictions on how much of a living wage the boss can take away from you.)
"Sanctity of marriage." (Oh yeah? I guess only if you're a heterosexual male with a heterosexual fiancee. Marriage isn't permitted for all you perverts out there.)
"Religious freedom." (Oh yeah? WHAT freedom? You want to dictate. You want to shove one specific kind of cultish "Christianist" belief system on the rest of us - to whom you need to DENY true religious freedom.)
"Free market." (Oh yeah? FREE market? You sing about capitalism and the joy of competition, which to you means run the rest of the competition outta business, or buy them out, or take them over, so you can corner the market, and screw anybody you want so YOU can grab a little more money for your own bottom line, the rest of us - we taxpayers who helped fund all aspects of the physical and social infrastructure on which YOU operate ad profit - be damned.)
"Big tent." (Oh yeah? WHERE? You mean the one where only older wealthy white men are allowed to preside, while gays, blacks, Latinos, the poor, the struggling middle class, and other religious belief systems are not welcome, really not allowed inside even though we pay them lip-service, and women and younger voters are told to stand in the back of the room and be quiet - because it's the rich white geezers who KNOW what you need.)

There's a slew of 'em. These are just the ones off the top of my head.

[bluesbassman]

42. Great post! The only correction I have is that the minorities are allowed in the tent...

As long as they're wearing a serving apron and carrying a tray.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. Pence is a dunce...

...famous for his "safe walk" in a Baghdad bazaar, while wearing body armor:

[RKP5637]

4. Yep, SOS, just a different flavor, but SOS! n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. How many sides does his mouth have?

Did anyone take a count?

[BlueCaliDem]

6. Typical answer from a Republican: "This isn't about discrimination. It's about gov't overreach."

Or some variation of it.

Rand Paul said the same thing to Rachel Maddow when she asked him how he felt about the Civil Rights Act and if he supported it. He answered that he felt businesses should not be told by Big Gubmint who they want to serve. Big Gubmint is the popular bogeyman to hide behind when they want to legally discriminate. I'm not surprised Governor Pence would quickly hide behind that statement at all, but who does he think he's fooling?

[lame54]

15. my favorite is...

The civil war was not about slavery it was about states rights
Yeah
The right to own a slave

[BlueCaliDem]

18. I've heard that one, too, and then my face goes "Grumpy Cat" and I ask, "do you really think I'm

that stupid??"

They try and pull that same lie with their support and pride in of the Confederate flag.

"It's about my heritage!"

No, numbskulls. It's the flag of traitors. Know your history! The Confederate flag was flown by traitors to the United States of America who wanted to break from the United States and form their own country, the Confederate States of America, and it was flown by those who had slaughtered more than 110,000 U.S. soldiers in order to do so. So how is that not traitorous?

They know it is. They're just a bunch of lying racist and bigots who can't get over the fact that they'd lost the Civil War 150 years ago. You've got to hand it to these idiots - they can hold a grudge and pass that grudge down to their children, generation after generation.

[smirkymonkey]

26. Exactly!

And as soon as people start protesting or boycotting certain businesses they will be arrested for "Restricting the religious freedom of others" or some such bullshit.

[calimary]

38. So their answer, ironically, IS government overreach.

THEIR version. But oh, no. THAT's a good thing!

AMAZING.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. ...as Indiana chambers of commerce tally their losses.

Mike, face it, you are just so fucked................

[Fred Sanders]

8. The definition of "religious activity" is so broad in the law to be almost meaningless....guess they

will need better language....and better lawyers.

How to give religious freedom to evangelical Christians - and some Catholics and Jews - is a real problem in a secular State.....pesky "constitution" and pesky "lawyers". Pesky social media and pesky press.

How do you legislate limited rights to hate when all kinds of folks are watching you?

[dsc]

9. He did himself no favors with that interview

but given his position and its general unpopularity there is no way he could have done himself any favors in that interview.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. It just ran in Chicago. Pence is a mealy-mouthed punk.

Good on George S to press him on the issue like he did.

[Jack Rabbit]

11. . . . and I'm a retired Kamikaze pilot

and I'm a retired Kamikaze pilot

[Oldtimeralso]

36. . . . and I'm a retired Kamikaze pilot

Who flew 25 successful missions!!!

[Jack Rabbit]

39. You got my record beat

I only flew 19.

[Baitball Blogger]

12. It's all about discrimination.

They have just created the cause for the legal fight that can only end properly by giving the gay community the same rights as everyone else.

[LynneSin]

13. Maybe you should of thought about that BEFORE you signed it

Because you're starting to cost your state money and jobs

[PrefersaPension]

17. This had to be a campaign promise to the religious zealots

...and when those that wanted this so badly lose business, what will they whine about then?

[Botany]

14. Government Overreach? No Mike this about being bigots and using religion as a cover

[Johonny]

16. intolerance a one-way street that is bad for everyone

where the majority in power thumbs the minority in the eye not because it needs to but because it can. There is nothing to gain for society in pointless laws to protect people from denying equal access to commerce to other people.

[erronis]

19. Anybody else smell an ALEC stink here? Indiana, Arkansaw, ...

It amazes me that these used-car salesmen can get money to dispense such lame advice to stoopids.

[Fred Sanders]

22. The stink from ALEX is a mile high, but their lawyers are an inch deep.

I am no Constitutional lawyer, but I can read and I have read the entire law, it is about 5 pages long, and the definition used for "religious beliefs" is so vague as to be meaningless...the whole thing is a guide or procedure whereby businesses can legally discriminate, go to court when challenged and the law is written favor the "religious belief" holder, when it gets to court.

So the law gets the sanction of the courts....it is a long range and insidious plan, but doomed to failure.....pesky federal constitution.

And I wonder what SCOTUS is making of these silly GOP manufactured and illegal laws, as they ponder gay marriage rights and the real intent behind anti-LGBT laws?

[erronis]

28. Re: I wonder what SCOTUS is making of these silly GOP manufactured and illegal laws

One has to hope that there is a real evil mastermind behind this shit. It's almost incomprehensible that they would manufacture these little skirmishes without having some war-planning map in front of them.

Then again, we've watched over and over how the best and the brightest of this blighted branch have struck out on new asinine ventures only to watch them go down in flames.

Perhaps it is just "Oh well, at least we tried." And we made several zillion$ in advising doofuses to run for office, planting news stories with our favorite M$M, pocketing a few thousands for schilling on the networks.

I always think of those two operatives - can't remember their names, one dem, one ugl - that sleep together but come out swinging at their opposite foes every morning. Chuckling on their way to the bank to deposit the coin.

[bl968]

32. The right wing branch of the Supreme Court is responsible

The supreme court is right in the midst of it with the Horrible Hobby Lobby decision. The only correct ruling for them would have been "Your religious freedoms stop when it impacts someone else's civil rights." if they had ruled that way on common sense and the law; instead of their political beliefs; we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Fred Sanders]

40. Secularism is under attack, actively defending secularism is a patriotic duty....was the message of Hebdo.

[DirkGently]

20. Isn't it odd that the "Constitution" loving party

... has spent the past 200 years trying to establish that individual states should be able to circumvent Constitutional guarantees to equal rights and treatment under the law?

American "libertarians" are as guilty of this screaming hypocrisy as Southern / Midwestern conservatives.

Remember Rand Paul struggling to tap-dance around Rachel Maddow asking if he would have supported the Civil Rights Act?

All the blah blah about the Federalist Papers and "small government" is really just an ongoing tantrum over the fact that you can't (theoretically) set up a cozy little racist, sexist, homophobic, religiously intolerant community somewhere and abuse / exploit / remove everyone whose identity offends you.

[Fred Sanders]

41. Christian evangelicals want to set up "no-go zones".....but only for them...the legal wording is

tripping them up, is how they see it...they will never give up until they are removed from power.

[Snarkoleptic]

21. It was cringeworthy watching Pence tap dance and run from his own record.

I'm sure when he was behind closed doors conspiring with the jeebus freaks, the whole clusterf&@k sounded reasonable to him.

[tomsaiditagain]

24. I love it!!

With all of the theocratic bull going on around the world and in Indiana, I love the fight the sensible humans are taking to the pushers of theology.

Pushing to make people succumb to their theological way is once again the republicans downfall. If they were for helping the poor, disabled, veterans, single mothers and all other humans in need they might not get into these fights. They would not have to Gerrymander for votes, or block the vote. The ignorance of republicans amazes me to no end.

But...money will be the downfall of Pence's law.

Bring it on

[drynberg]

27. AND I HATE IT...TRANSPARENT LIES AND MEAN SPIRITS LEAVE ME SICK...

[erronis]

29. But Pence will still get his payoff even if Indiana suffers for his stoopidity.

Well, I guess the coke/alec-bought legislature will also benefit, even if they leave office "for personal reasons."

[caraher]

25. And the video...

available at ThinkProgress for those who want to watch 11 minutes of evasion.

Getting visibly frustrated when Stephanopoulos kept asking if he thought Pence believed the law made it legal to discriminate against gays and lesbians in the state. “Hooisers don’t discriminate,” Pence said.

Echoes of "Americans do not torture..."

[Botany]

30. He must have prepped for hours in order to be able to not answer the critical question

which was does this give legal cover that allows people to discriminate against
gay people. Look Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, 20 years of this law, people in
Indiana don't discriminate because they are Hoosiers, and so on.

It is the media's fault and what about the internet and

BTW I only made it to 8 minutes and I had to bale out.

[caraher]

31. The last 3 minutes are more of the same

He did show a lot of "message discipline," the one thing Republicans do well.

Toward the end the questions were a bit more pointed - "should" it be legal to refuse service to gays and lesbians, yes or no (a phrasing that sets aside the RFRA law itself). And in response we got "Hoosier hospitality" and we're nice people here and Hoosiers do not discriminate... without answering what should be an easy question.

[Botany]

33. I liked one of the comments on the Think Progress page you posted

Can a Muslim refuse service to a woman @ his business if she
does not have her head covered?

and I just thought of this one because I have family and friends from
Indiana how about can a Jew who keeps kosher not pay their state taxes
because the state and it's universities help support farms that raise hogs?

And yes he did keep on message.

caraher

[Iliyah]

34. Guvvmint is sure in the people of the USA bussiness, ain't they.

These religious fanatics dictating their views upon us from controlling female bodies to bigoted laws (Jim Crow again), to suppressing votes so that they can remain in office to eff up and purge the USA into another depression.

GOPers are beyond sick.

[Zorra]

35. Tolerance has nothing to do with allowing christofascists to quash the rights of LGBT

at will, with impunity.