General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNot ONE word from the POTUS period!
No denial that the WikiLeaks released TPP document is inaccurate, outdated, or a fraud.
Tea leaves say WikiLeaks hit the nail on the head.
OS
daleanime
(17,796 posts)WillTwain
(1,489 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)the right deliberate decision for the best interest of the Nation as a whole.....
lark
(23,185 posts)Based on his speeches, when he's running for office and cares about the left? Once the campaigns are over, haven't you noticed how much he lists to the right? Notice how he slants the truth when talking about the trade agreements and never mentions the ugly things we saw in the WikkiLeaks documents?
I know it's probably painful, but face it, he's not on our side after all.
WillTwain
(1,489 posts)He is a Rahm Emanual (spelling?) Democrat. He loves Larry Summers,too.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)when you realize that you are the only person in this world who shares your reality ----then and only then can you obtain any Wisdom. Otherwise one lives one's whole life unaware of their own ignorance.
WillTwain
(1,489 posts)WillTwain
(1,489 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I have not mentioned Summers and Emmanuel .
You really thought Obama is a Progressive Democrat?
He is not, ,,,never has been, ,,, so don't be so surprised when he does things
that a Progressive would not do.
WillTwain
(1,489 posts)May have misinterpreted your comment. I think we are on the same team.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)*Raise Taxes in the RICH
*Immediately "make EFCA (Card Check) the Law of the Land".
*Immediately re-negotiate NAFTA (and other trade deals)to protect American LABOR
*Put on comfortable shoes and walk the line with strikers
*Immediately Force GMO manufactures to label their products
*Raise the CAP on Social Security.
*Pledged to never cut Social Security, including the CPI or COLA.
Now THAT doesn't sound like a "Centrist" at all.
I have the video if you dispute any of my claims. (Please?)
Too bad he didn't actually DO any of those promises.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Obama has more than 19 months left to keep these promises. Will he? I doubt it, but his feet should still be held to the fire for every one of them.
-app
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I said nothing about being a popuist,,,,
WillTwain
(1,489 posts)Sarcasm
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)btw.... what exactly would you have had him do?
WillTwain
(1,489 posts)He is a popular guy that is good on the stump. My beef on Obama is his lack of effort. Like any president, their most powerful tool is the bully pulpit. Great presidents have always understood this and used it powerfully. The power of persuasion is strong. Bush used it to sell an illegal war. It works.
Generally speaking, since January of 2009, he should have been talking up unions every time he got behind a podium - every time. He actually has angered unions not aligned with them. Remember his EFCA promise?
If I had one word to describe his union support it would be disaster.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)he would "put on his comfortable shoes" and walk the line with strikers?
That would have helped a lot.
Instead, he stayed at home in his house shoes watching it all on TV,
and hasn't come within two states wherever UNIONS are in trouble, and endorsed having the Democratic Convention in a Non-Union state.
UNIONS?.....What Unions?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)But it sure seems that there is a bunch of people who whine about him breaking his progressive vows when in fact he has never proclaimed any........it woiuld be like me being mad because Dick Chaney has fallen off his Liberal Wagon.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)He is not a progressive that is true, he is a center/right Democrat, but he did campaign using a progressive theme and making progressive promises. This was just pointed out to you a couple posts up. I understand if you left the room to get your glasses and I reposted the response link that you did not appear to see for your convenience.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)but your link has nothing to do with anything I have said,,,,, nor anyting I have a comment on,,,,,,, If you really thought he was a progressive that says more about you than him. but it still doesn't change the fact he is not now and ever has been a progressive.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)How you can completely deny that is beyond me, even when I apply it in the context of what I have read regarding clinical psychosis.
Your a very unusual person to discuss things with. Read the words of yours that I quoted and the post that completely blows your premise out of the water. It is so obvious that I doubt anybody reading this exchange will believe you are arguing in good faith, unless perhaps you simply cannot see the words that appear in this very discussion.
I was wrong about denial, your problem is way over the deep end past anything so trivial as denial.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I have no premise to "blow out of the water",,,,,,,, I just stated a matter of fact, Obama is not now or every has been a Progressive Democrat. He is a Liberal Democrat. While the two may share a sub set of values, they are not the same thing. ,,,,
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)As a Pres his views are close to H. Clinton's.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)but I saw no signs of pretending to be more progressive. you only had to look at the people he surrounded himself with to realize that!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)you do not know what a Progressive Democrat is.........
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)A person isn't progressive if they support:
The Iraq War
Continued war in the Middle East
not cutting the defense budget
the Patriot Act
indefinite detention and rendition
being soft on torturers
an uncontrolled NSA/CIA Security State
Fracking
so called "Free" Trade Agreements like NAFTA and the TPP
rolling back Glass Steagall
How does that differ from your definition?
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)so tell me why you thought Obama was a Progressive..... because of what he said as a politician?,,,,, surely not? ,,,, surely you are old enough to know any politican will tell you anything they think you want to hear..... You can not make any judgements only inspect the fruit they bear.........
. I have not ever said he was a progressive... just the opposite,,,, he is not now nor have I ever thought he is a progressive so,,,, i have never expected him to behave as a Progressive then or now....
you are arguing with yourself......
marym625
(17,997 posts)How little the camaraderie with summers means to some people. People who refuse to open their eyes to all truths and not just the ones they like.
Summers is the mouthpiece for the money changers.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)malthaussen
(17,230 posts)I seriously doubt the 1% thinks of him as a member.
-- Mal
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Just because you help them does not mean they will admit you to their club. Or that they won't snicker at you behind your back. Or maybe to your face.
nikto
(3,284 posts)When he abuses us, he's just showing his LOVE for us.
He loves me! I just know he does!!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9cEHcyKnkoQ/TdqjhTZqzSI/AAAAAAAACPw/iY9gqVkgmqo/s1600/battered_woman_1_large_50+%25281%2529.jpg
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)corporate coup' d'états.
Whitehouse Comments: 202-456-1111
United States Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121
Let's overwhelm the Congress and Whitehouse with calls, faxes and letters of opposition.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Obama has been really pushing for this, and Hillary helped architect it and has spoken out strongly for it, so I expect there will be silence until the Party can figure out which way to spin so that this does not affect support, popularity ratings, votes. And then we will have our resident TPP apologists (or whatever) telling us why we are not smart enough to even behold the document.
Interesting about the four year secret stuff - I would love to know which corporation, er, country, proposed what.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)Last I can search is 4 years ago. They were rather innocuous words... and she was acting on the President's behalf.
"Our goal for TPP is to create not just more growth, but better growth. We believe the TPP needs to include strong protections for workers, the environment, intellectual property, and innovation," Clinton said at the event in 2011. "It should also promote the free flow of information technology and the spread of green technology, as well as the coherence of our regulatory system and the efficiency of supply chains."
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Free_Trade.htm
djean111
(14,255 posts)And if everything she did as SOS is just what Obama told her to do, if he micromanaged her, then, really, all she should get credit for is amassing so many air miles.
I agree, though, that what she said is meaningless pap.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Instead of taking her orders from POTUS?
djean111
(14,255 posts)I am saying that we are told that Hillary is qualified to be president because of things like being SOS, and if all she did was what she was told, every step of the way, that is pretty weak sauce. Being SOS would reflect exactly nothing of herself.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The only autonomous action Hillary has on record with a trade agreement is her no vote on CAFTA in the Senate. And she did vote no. Which creates, if nothing else, some nuance to the discussion.
To skip that vote seems to leave out an important bit.
Rex
(65,616 posts)And I think Obama is fast tracking this monstrosity so he can kill it fast and without anyone being able to stop him. Of course people are saying that I am crazy for believing that, but hey not the first time I've been accused of that!
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)work?
Buns_of_Fire
(17,210 posts)Picture: The President, after seeing the turn the negotiated agreement has taken, said to himself "no f*ckin' way", so he's pushing for fast track so he can administer the coup de gras personally (if the congresscritters don't do it first). Everything's been kept tightly under wraps, to allow public outrage to build, and he's giving Congress one last chance to Do The Right Thing.
And if they don't, he's prepared to leave office with one giant FU to the worthless eaters on Capitol Hill who've tormented him for lo these many years.
I don't really think that's what's happening, but the scenario appeals to my appreciation of a good double-cross and double-double-cross.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)uponit7771
(90,370 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)uponit7771
(90,370 posts)... architects....
Proof is better than claim no?
tia
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I'm sure someone will ask her. Then you'll have your proof.
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)Let's ask her. Let's ask them all. A quick checklist of yes and no for each point in this document.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Proof of climate change.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Currently only political news junkies know about it because the M$M has a TPP blackout. A denial from POTUS might bring it out into the daylight.
2banon
(7,321 posts)appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)the stock ownership and investor class.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)That doesn't mean this isn't legit, just probably not something we should try to interpret for meaning
The admin's 'trust us' argument rings very hollow.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The Republicans, they who scream about everything Obama, have almost nothing to say about it...
Bipartisany goodness..
Yum.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Just theater. They know they're all in this together; they just want us to think we have a chance until it's too late.
(Yes, the GOP voters are stupid, but the leaders are just evil. And that includes a WHOLE LOT of the Dems!)
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)appeared to take a stand on Keystone XL and Net Neutrality I could not help but wonder what his game is. Now I am thinking that those will both be undone by TPP. There is no doubt that enormous profits hinge on those decisions and so would be ripe targets for the kangaroo tribunal under TPP.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'm learning more about machinations than I ever wanted to know.
randome
(34,845 posts)With everyone screaming "Fascism! Tragedy!" without understanding the full picture? Why on Earth would Obama make a statement about it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is hockey Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]
he cares about the people and wants them to know the truth.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)uponit7771
(90,370 posts).......
just sayin
tridim
(45,358 posts)As a non-Obama basher, I am proud that our President NEVER makes snap judgments about the conspiracy theory du jour. That is what stupid people do.
Elwood P Dowd
(11,443 posts)that have cost millions of Americans their middle class jobs and turns governing our country over to a bunch of billionaire corporate crooks.
tridim
(45,358 posts)I said Obama isn't stupid enough to take the bait.
randome
(34,845 posts)We don't have the full treaty to peruse. We don't have a full picture so how can anyone agree or disagree with something that's incomplete?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you think childhood is finished, maybe you didn't do it right the first time.
Start over.[/center][/font][hr]
if the picture is incomplete, why doesn't Obama wait until it's final before speaking out on it?
randome
(34,845 posts)Other than in general terms, I don't think he's said much about this, has he?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"general terms" are not informative, so why not up-to-date transparency?
Omaha Steve
(99,834 posts)The BS is the DU ostriches on TPP.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Sorry for the confusion.
Omaha Steve
(99,834 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Skittles
(153,261 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Skittles
(153,261 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)All our worst nightmares confirmed in a few pages of dry text.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Why?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Because that is a condition I definitely do not have.
In trade regulation, who is supposed to regulate the trade? How do you see this document supporting that process?
2banon
(7,321 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Or do you just prefer to put your hands over your ears and close your eyes while going, "Lah-lah-lah!"?
Seriously, what the fuck are you not reading?
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)Have a good one OS
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)
Some people wanted to know what the leaders are doing.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Auggie
(31,227 posts)On Fri Mar 27, 2015, 12:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Obama to his voters about TPP: "Fuck off !"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6424100
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Oh come on. This is ridiculously OTT, even by current DU standards
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 27, 2015, 12:23 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave it. This board has been taken over by center-right a-holes who really need to go back to the republican party to spew their BS.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We are being told that through their actions.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In maybe any other policy matter (except extended/new war policy) I might vote to hide. But the TPP represents corporatism at its worse. The "negotiations" aren't transparent and couldn't be more counter to the election year promises Barak Obama made in 2008. I hate the very concept that this President is pushing the TPP and wish it wasn't true. Fuck off? Yeah, you bet.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is over the top, but I don't think it warrants an alert. Please leave it.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Can't really vote to hide it, sorry.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)it was a bullshit alert.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)jalan48
(13,907 posts)MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Not surprised.
K&R
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Telling the truth is dangerous in the corrupt regime America has become.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)... and she didn't say a word.
GUILTY AS CHARGED!
(are you shitting me? have we really sunk to this level?)
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)to Tea Baggers screaming that Vince Foster was murdered by Hillary Clinton?
Funny... really.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Making such a claim is silly.
salib
(2,116 posts)He (and most other officials) are quick to point out when the leakers should have mud on their faces.
They are generally silent when it is fairly accurate.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)a transparent administration by the candidate. Our government is nothing but lackeys for the plutocracy
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)from Chicago.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)should be assumed to be true?
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)Cuz we're being TP ed! but you'll love it, it's BUY- PARTISAN
Global, Corporate Control, Coup d'etat
WillyT
(72,631 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Thespian2
(2,741 posts)George II
(67,782 posts).....fraud? He'd have no time to do anything else.
Rex
(65,616 posts)good or bad, it will validate that it exists etc..
OR he is purposely not saying anything for another reason entirely.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Don't you know if you disagree with the President, you must be a racist and only disagree because he is black?
So the TPP must be good!
I guess now I'm a misogynist because I don't like hillary.
Don't bother with facts or logic. No point in those.
Love you OS
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Shine that light!
demwing
(16,916 posts)Denials, cumulatively, are as revealing as admissions.
Or maybe WL nailed it.
ON EDIT: Or all of the above.
pampango
(24,692 posts)genuine though is is apparent from the content that not much has been agreed to on this chapter.
"Perhaps the purported leak of the TPP investment text seems striking to some, but it provides very little that has not already been publicly available for years. The highly detailed U.S. model investment negotiating text has been publicly available on both the websites of the Office of the United States Trade Representative and the Department of State since the Obama Administration completed its multi-year review of the investment text in April 2012."
The leaked chapter also includes new language on corporate social responsibility and companies adopting international recognized standards, guidelines and principles governing good corporate behavior.
http://www.politico.com/morningtrade/0315/morningtrade17633.html?ml=ae_l
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)TPP contains a provision for bailing out derivative losses. Is this what re-negotiating NAFTA means?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026430716