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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 03:44 PM Mar 2015

Teachers Fight Special Needs Accommodation

http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2015/03/26/teachers-fight-accommodation/20162/

A teachers group is fighting a plan to allow a student with a disability to use a faculty restroom, all because they say the accommodation violates their right to exclusive facilities.

Eighteen teachers — including two special educators — signed a petition filed alongside a union grievance after administrators opted to allow a student at Park Elementary School near Pittsburgh to use the faculty restroom, reports the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

The student has a physical limitation, school officials say, which makes it difficult for the child to climb stairs needed to access the student facilities. The school’s bottom floor does not have a student restroom nor is there elevator access.

Teachers at the school argue the plan violates a provision of their contract stating that the school will provide “lavatory facilities exclusively for employees’ use.”




87 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Teachers Fight Special Needs Accommodation (Original Post) KamaAina Mar 2015 OP
Oh for crying out loud! leftofcool Mar 2015 #1
According to the article... blogslut Mar 2015 #2
Do u know how much an elevator costs? Chuuku Davis Mar 2015 #21
Not every person who uses a wheelchair thucythucy Mar 2015 #40
Do you know how much shutting out disabled students costs our society? blogslut Mar 2015 #50
I know that, at least in my state, LWolf Mar 2015 #59
This may be a union issue. Union agreements for teachers have things like employee restrooms Wella Mar 2015 #3
Agree. femmocrat Mar 2015 #4
25 years this July. KamaAina Mar 2015 #5
My mom was there at the signing by Poppy... It is Tuesday Mar 2015 #17
Awesome! KamaAina Mar 2015 #28
Thanks for the link to the legacy project. thucythucy Mar 2015 #48
Yes! I saw you in the school bathroom thread. KamaAina Mar 2015 #69
And I've seen your posts thucythucy Mar 2015 #72
Awesome! KamaAina Mar 2015 #73
I am surprised they've not addressed it--and have gotten away with it. Wella Mar 2015 #9
And the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) thucythucy Mar 2015 #41
The worst of this is that you have to file lawsuits to get people to follow the damned law. Wella Mar 2015 #53
Exactly. madfloridian Mar 2015 #12
It's a legal issue. madfloridian Mar 2015 #11
I know. But the anti-teacher rhetoric is not uncommon, even among Democrats Wella Mar 2015 #75
In fact it was enabled by our own party's leaders. madfloridian Mar 2015 #81
Follow the (private charter) money... Wella Mar 2015 #85
It's also a child safety issue. Xithras Mar 2015 #74
There is a lot of stupid involved in this mythology Mar 2015 #6
Selfish assholes meow2u3 Mar 2015 #7
So to speak. KamaAina Mar 2015 #8
This "selfish asshole" thinks deeper issues may be involved. madfloridian Mar 2015 #10
Are you one of those teachers? It is always interesting to find DUers with personal connections to uppityperson Mar 2015 #13
No, but I believe they know the deeper legal issues involved. So I agree... madfloridian Mar 2015 #14
If they protested in order for the lack of accessibility Jon82 Mar 2015 #39
Um, why should a disabled student get caught up in these "deeper issues"? KamaAina Mar 2015 #25
The question has already been answered.... madfloridian Mar 2015 #35
If the ADA rules have been ignored thucythucy Mar 2015 #42
Okay. madfloridian Mar 2015 #43
of course, all students will have a bathroom on the first floor if the teachers win this fight CreekDog Mar 2015 #34
The fist issue is protecting the student and teachers from possible abuse accusations. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #15
.......... madfloridian Mar 2015 #16
Thank you! greatlaurel Mar 2015 #19
Huh? KamaAina Mar 2015 #26
An unaccompanied adult cannot go into a restroom when a child is in the restroom alone. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #33
But the disabled student would only be in there between periods. KamaAina Mar 2015 #36
When do you think the teachers are going to be in there? XemaSab Mar 2015 #51
Thank you! greatlaurel Mar 2015 #54
Worse, the admin recently took out the bathroom that such students could use Yo_Mama Mar 2015 #45
A grievance like this is not "the only way the teachers have to address this problem." thucythucy Mar 2015 #49
Hey, you need to read up on what Arne Duncan and Obama are doing to special ed students. madfloridian Mar 2015 #56
I'd be happy to do so. thucythucy Mar 2015 #71
Here are some links, with other links in the post. madfloridian Mar 2015 #86
Thanks for these. thucythucy Mar 2015 #87
The teachers are doing the right thing. The school needs to build an accessible student bathroom, LeftyMom Mar 2015 #18
All well and good... but UNTIL that bathroom is built? Let the damn kid use the one restroom they cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #20
That may well be part of the agreement with the teachers. But the school has to agree to build one. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #22
Spiteful no. Selfish? Yes. n/t cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #23
I love when rich people call underpaid, overworked teachers selfish. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #24
cherokeeprogressive is rich?! KamaAina Mar 2015 #27
If you don't want people to know you're entitled you shouldn't post pics of your tacky gated spread. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #30
My "spread" has ZERO gates. My NEIGHBORHOOD has zero gates. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #38
Thanks for this post. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #62
Snowing? KamaAina Mar 2015 #67
LOL I actually like the snow. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #77
Well, it is an odd-numbered year, so I'm not expecting too much KamaAina Mar 2015 #78
They always do. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #79
Hey, at least you're not in San Jose KamaAina Mar 2015 #80
No slack huh. Ever. I see how you are. n/t cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #82
They aren't very good at bragging if thats what they are doing. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #61
I was a Voc Ed/ROP teacher for ten years thank you. I'll call selfish people selfish all day long. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #29
The teachers have to file the grievance to force the construction of the accessible bathroom. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #37
The school is then in violation of the IDEA, probably the ADA thucythucy Mar 2015 #46
Well, they HAD a student bathroom on that floor that they took out. Yo_Mama Mar 2015 #47
/facepalm deathrind Mar 2015 #31
Actually, teacher unions are under attack KamaAina Mar 2015 #32
You are right, unfortunately. deathrind Mar 2015 #83
The attack takes many forms. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #52
Yes. nt LWolf Mar 2015 #60
You are correct. deathrind Mar 2015 #84
a conflict between two progressive principles - it does happen sometimes - no sense denying that it Douglas Carpenter Mar 2015 #44
There is no conflict. The school is refusing to accomodate the student and blaming the teachers. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #55
Agree with you completely. n/t kiranon Mar 2015 #70
One question here: why is there no other accessible toilet in the school? LeftishBrit Mar 2015 #57
Sometimes being from Alabama is awesome Telcontar Mar 2015 #58
One hopes Texas will follow suit KamaAina Mar 2015 #68
How on earth could you have a publc building without a public restroom on the first (entry level) dsc Mar 2015 #63
Turns out the spec ed classroom had a student restroom that was removed recently. greatlaurel Mar 2015 #64
There is a bigger ADA issue here and the school district is throwing the teachers under the bus gollygee Mar 2015 #65
Maybe you should look a little more closely at this issue. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #66
This: LWolf Mar 2015 #76

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
1. Oh for crying out loud!
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 03:50 PM
Mar 2015

Then all 18 of you can take turns changing diaper/pads/panties since you don't want to share your toilet!

blogslut

(38,022 posts)
2. According to the article...
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 04:08 PM
Mar 2015

the school has other faculty-only restrooms. The teachers should stand up for student accessibility. There should be an elevator in a multi-floor school regardless.

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
40. Not every person who uses a wheelchair
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:34 PM
Mar 2015

can use a "stair chair thingie." They only work for people who can transfer into and out of one.

Beside which, public schools are supposed to be accessible. Others on this thread have cited the Americans with Disabilities Act, which was passed a quarter century ago. Actually, I think the law that would apply here would be the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, (IDEA) which was passed in 1975. Schools have had forty fucking years to get with the program.

This is so disheartening. How many more decades or centuries will it take before we agree that the possibility of shitting or pissing on themselves isn't something kids with disabilities have to worry about, just because they want to go to school like everybody else?

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
59. I know that, at least in my state,
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 08:00 AM
Mar 2015

schools with more than one level are required to have elevators, for the disabled, the injured, and to get all the maintenance equipment up and down.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
3. This may be a union issue. Union agreements for teachers have things like employee restrooms
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 04:10 PM
Mar 2015

This seems like a special case, but really, the kid's parent's need to be suing the district via the ADA to provide accessible restrooms to disabled students.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
4. Agree.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 05:04 PM
Mar 2015

The school should have had a special needs restroom for students years ago. How long ago was ADA?

 

It is Tuesday

(93 posts)
17. My mom was there at the signing by Poppy...
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:44 PM
Mar 2015

It was a very significant event for our community.

Things that are taken for granted are now being taken very seriously.

....from a disabled guy

and one of those rare times that this legislation was the right thing to sign for everyone....

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
28. Awesome!
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:21 PM
Mar 2015

And welcome to DU!

Factoid: Poppy was prepared to veto the ADA, until Bob Dole twisted his arm, so to speak.

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
48. Thanks for the link to the legacy project.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:59 PM
Mar 2015

I've been involved with that for about a year now.

I love me some ADA!!!

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
72. And I've seen your posts
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:34 PM
Mar 2015

on assisted suicide (and the totally depressing responses you generally get).

I'm also a member of Not Dead Yet, so I totally get where you're coming from.

Best wishes.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
9. I am surprised they've not addressed it--and have gotten away with it.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:26 PM
Mar 2015

Yes, the ADA has been around over a generation.

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
41. And the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:38 PM
Mar 2015

which used to be called the Education for All Handicapped Children Act was passed in 1975. Gerald Ford was president.

This was forty fucking years ago, and we're still dealing with this shit.

How on earth this school ever made it through all these years without addressing this is what I'd like to know.

Yes, the parents should get themselves a good attorney and start a legal action. The Dept. of Education might also be interested in how this district has apparently seen fit to flout federal law for four decades.

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
53. The worst of this is that you have to file lawsuits to get people to follow the damned law.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:05 AM
Mar 2015

Some days.....

 

Wella

(1,827 posts)
75. I know. But the anti-teacher rhetoric is not uncommon, even among Democrats
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:04 PM
Mar 2015

Which does not bode well.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
74. It's also a child safety issue.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:47 PM
Mar 2015

Most school districts also have rules stating that adults are not allowed to use the same restroom facilities as their students, to protect against possible sexual abuse. I was talking to my wife (an elementary school teacher) last night about this case, and she pointed out that the faculty restrooms at her school are typical stall restrooms that accommodate four people. If they had to let a student use it, the entire restroom would be unavailable for faculty use until they were done.

Kids can raise their hand and get a hall pass if they need to go to the bathroom during class. Teachers can't. If a teacher has to go, they only have a few short windows of time in which they can run for the bathroom and do their business. If the bathroom is off limits because a student is in there, a teacher might have to wait HOURS for another opportunity to go. It's possible to call the front office and have someone come take over your classroom if needed, but that is considered HIGHLY unprofessional and usually knocks them down in their reviews (it's considered to be indicative of poor time and classroom management skills).

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
6. There is a lot of stupid involved in this
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 05:59 PM
Mar 2015

The teachers group for suing over this, the school/district for not putting in an acceptable bathroom, possibly the local tax payers if the school couldn't afford a newer facility due to an insistence on lower taxes instead of paying for basic public needs.

meow2u3

(24,776 posts)
7. Selfish assholes
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 07:27 PM
Mar 2015

They don't belong in a classroom teaching kids, let alone kids with special needs. Those teachers need to be written up at best, or fired at worst, for disregarding the needs of disabled kids so they can have their own johns.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
10. This "selfish asshole" thinks deeper issues may be involved.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 09:49 PM
Mar 2015

But thanks for the "kind" words anyway. DU is taking name calling to a new level.

uppityperson

(115,681 posts)
13. Are you one of those teachers? It is always interesting to find DUers with personal connections to
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:12 PM
Mar 2015

things posted here.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
14. No, but I believe they know the deeper legal issues involved. So I agree...
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:15 PM
Mar 2015

with those "selfish assholes" which makes me one of them. I do love name-calling.

Jon82

(92 posts)
39. If they protested in order for the lack of accessibility
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:33 PM
Mar 2015

To be noticed, they need to come out and say it. Has the family of the student taken any steps to sue the school? Was this the way for the teachers to make sure that there is no other outlet for the school in order to ensure a change for handicap students? I do not feel like this was the purpose considering they can convert one if the bathrooms into a student bathroom but maybe it is possible.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
35. The question has already been answered....
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:27 PM
Mar 2015

because the teachers are "selfish assholes".

Which is pretty how teachers are usually thought of around here.

No consideration that the ADA rules have been ignored for all these years.

Just another convenient way to paint teachers as the enemy.

There's a culture for that now with both parties doing it publicly.

Just a simple blaming of teachers for everything, things out of their control...everything.

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
42. If the ADA rules have been ignored
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:47 PM
Mar 2015

this is in direct violation of students' civil rights. You'd think teachers would be at least as interested in the rights and education of their students, even if they're disabled, as they are over their precious exclusive toilets.

The ADA has been in effect for 25 years. That's a quarter of a century. The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act has been around since 1975. That's forty years. The Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which mandates any facility built with or receiving any federal funds (and most schools get some federal assistance) must not discriminate against people with disabilities. So that's 42 years now and counting.

If a group of teachers were suing on behalf of racial segregation, or sexist discrimination, would you be so tolerant of their viewpoint?

If the ADA and other disability rights law has been "ignored" -- that is, violated by this district -- I would hope the teachers union would insist that civil rights law be respected, not put obstacles up for kids who want to be educated just like everybody else.

I have family and friends who are teachers. I had lots of good and a few great teachers when I went to public school. I generally support teachers and teachers' unions.

That doesn't mean I give them a free pass to be complicit in violating federal civil rights law.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
34. of course, all students will have a bathroom on the first floor if the teachers win this fight
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:26 PM
Mar 2015

who will benefit? all students, including the special needs child.

think harder before you post next time.

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
15. The fist issue is protecting the student and teachers from possible abuse accusations.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:41 PM
Mar 2015

Last edited Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:16 AM - Edit history (1)

No adult is allowed to go into a restroom alone with a child. Therefore, the faculty restroom would become unusable by the faculty on that floor. They could never know when it was acceptable for them to go into the restroom. How long does it take the teachers to get to the faculty restrooms on another floor and back, again? They most likely are not able to get there and back again without leaving their classroom alone too long. Furthermore, where are the accommodations for teachers who may suffer from their own physical limitations? This article is another example of demonizing teachers when the administration is at fault for not providing proper ADA restroom facilities for all children. The administration has had 25 years to make the schools ADA compliant.

The article in the OP is clever union/teacher bashing right wing propaganda. DU should not advocate for the anti teacher/union right wing propaganda.

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
19. Thank you!
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:53 PM
Mar 2015

It boggles the mind how people fall for this right wing propaganda so easily. I am stunned that people did not immediately see why the teachers would be opposed to allowing a child to use the adult restroom.

It is astounding the number of school buildings, including brand new buildings, that are not ADA compliant. A brand new high school was built near where I live that has no way for people in wheelchairs to get down from the second floor if the power goes out. So in a fire, the original plan is for the wheelchair bound to use the elevators to get to the ground floor. Evidently, the architects, engineers, school administrators and school board members never thought about the fact that you never trap people in elevators in a fire. One of the teachers who is in a wheelchair pointed this fact out and the administration tried to fire them. They failed to fire good teacher. The teacher created their own escape plan. They will get students to carry them out in case of an emergency.

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
33. An unaccompanied adult cannot go into a restroom when a child is in the restroom alone.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:26 PM
Mar 2015

Last edited Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:19 AM - Edit history (1)

You obviously have not had the most recent training in child abuse prevention. If the child is using the restroom, a teacher would need to have another teacher go in with them to make sure the child is not alone with an adult.

So if the teacher needs to use the restroom, they have to track down another person to go with them in case the child with the disability is in the restroom by themselves. The situation will make it so time consuming the teachers basically have no time to take a quick bathroom break.

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
54. Thank you!
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:22 AM
Mar 2015

I am sure the school administration would prefer the teachers just never took a break for a biological necessity. It would save them lots of money on the water bill.

Right wingers just do not have any common sense.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
45. Worse, the admin recently took out the bathroom that such students could use
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:51 PM
Mar 2015

because apparently it was cheaper to install some ventilation equipment there.

The grievance is the only way the teachers have to address this problem.

Also it appears that the child will not be able to access some classes on the upper floor!

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
49. A grievance like this is not "the only way the teachers have to address this problem."
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 12:24 AM
Mar 2015

From my reading of this, the school district is in violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act of 1975, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. There may well be state disability rights law the district is also violating.

Individual teachers, and the union, and the parents, can file an action with the Department of Education, the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitation Services (OSERS), the Department of Justice, and/or the federal Architectural Barriers and Access Compliance Board. That would probably be far more effective than filing a suit to stop the only reasonable accommodation available to this particular student. THAT action places the union and the student's family on opposite sides of any legal action that might come out of this, a truly awful way to try to resolve this. It might be that for some particular nuance here the union might not have "standing" to file suit themselves, in which case they can file an amicus in support of the student and parents.

I can guess why all this is happening. Many school districts feel they can just fob off disability rights law--like it isn't REALLY a federal civil rights law cause it's only disabled kids we're talking about, and not anybody of particular value (like the school football team or what have you). Most attorneys--and this would probably include both the district's and the union's legal counsel, know squat about disability civil rights. They still think the ADA is some sort of welfare program for disabled folk, as opposed to civil rights law every bit as valid (and enforceable) as the Civil Rights Act of '64 or Title IX.

I've been involved as an observer in some suits against school districts and municipalities. I was in a federal district court when the representatives of a town, in clear violation of the ADA (they'd built a brand new town hall without access, a brand new public school with squat for access) didn't even bother to fucking show up for the scheduled court date. The federal judge told the town's attorney, and I quote, "You will produce your client within one half hour, or I will issue a warrant to have them brought in in handcuffs by federal marshals." The lawyer hopped on his cell, and twenty minutes later the town board members came huffing and puffing in. They honestly thought that, since it was just a bunch of "cripples" bringing the action, they could tell the federal courts of the United States basically to fuck off.

From my reading, the teacher's union, by trying to finesse this as a contract issue, rather than a civil rights issue, is making a big mistake.

I could be wrong--lord knows I have been in the past. But I hope those parents lawyer up, and that they find an attorney who knows disability rights. Until ten or fifteen years ago such attorneys were hard to find, but more and more law schools are now offering courses in this aspect of civil rights law.

I can't believe this shit is still happening in 2015.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
56. Hey, you need to read up on what Arne Duncan and Obama are doing to special ed students.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:40 AM
Mar 2015

Really do research that. It's shocking. Every special ed teacher I ever worked with cares deeply about their students' needs.

Blame the right people. Arne and Obama are trying to undo any strides parents have made toward special education needs being fulfilled.

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
71. I'd be happy to do so.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:32 PM
Mar 2015

Any links you can provide would be helpful.

Don't see, though, how this mitigates what's happening here. I can be pissed at more than one actor or set of actors at a time.

The whole charter school movement is, I think, in large part an attempt to circumvent IDEA and disability rights law. It's acting to re-segregate American education, in more ways than one.

Best wishes.

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
87. Thanks for these.
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 07:00 PM
Mar 2015

In general, I hate how tests have seemingly become the end all and be all of education. The best teachers I had (I'm a public school and state university alum) taught from their heads and their hearts, not their tests.

Call me paranoid (and some people do) but I think attacks on people with disabilities and the programs that serve us are often stalking horses for attacks on the public square in general. And so, for instance, we're now seeing a concerted campaign to gut SSI and SSDI, as a precursor to gutting Social Security in general.

And I appreciate your dedication to tempering and rebutting the anti-teacher animus and rhetoric you see on DU. To the extent that I've been a part of that, I sincerely apologize, and will try to do better in the future.

Best wishes.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
18. The teachers are doing the right thing. The school needs to build an accessible student bathroom,
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:50 PM
Mar 2015

an elevator or both.

It's amazing having no student bathroom that can be accessed without climbing stairs hasn't become an issue before, and it's unlikely that it won't be an issue at any point in the future. Also, it's stigmatizing for the student to be singled out by being forced to use a facility other students can't access.

Giving the first floor bathroom over to the student isn't a good solution because it assumes all teachers are and will continue to be able bodied, and sharing the bathroom is a significant legal liability that the teachers should not tolerate.

This is all fairly obvious.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
20. All well and good... but UNTIL that bathroom is built? Let the damn kid use the one restroom they
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:54 PM
Mar 2015

can access.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
22. That may well be part of the agreement with the teachers. But the school has to agree to build one.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:03 PM
Mar 2015

First the teachers have to press the issue in such a way that the cheapest option (just letting the kid use the existing restroom) isn't an option, otherwise the school system will default to that.

The idea that teachers are maliciously keeping this kid out of their can out of spite is so obviously not the real story that I can't believe anybody on DU is engaging with it.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
24. I love when rich people call underpaid, overworked teachers selfish.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:09 PM
Mar 2015

It really warms the cockles of my heart, let me tell you.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
30. If you don't want people to know you're entitled you shouldn't post pics of your tacky gated spread.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:23 PM
Mar 2015

Weirdly enough there's quite a bit of that going around on DU. I guess there's no sense in being loaded if you can't brag about it to complete strangers.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
38. My "spread" has ZERO gates. My NEIGHBORHOOD has zero gates.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:30 PM
Mar 2015

It was the very FIRST house I've ever bought on my own, using the VA loan I earned 30 years ago by serving my country. You're fucking right I was proud.

I go to fucking work every day without fail. I work when I'm not feeling well, I work when I hurt, I work more hours than I'm expected to. Guess what I do for a living???

I'm a fucking Trash Man. That's right. I'm the epitome of "fucking rich". I drive a truck called a "front loader" and empty dumpsters at commercial concerns five days a week, from 6 in the morning (get to work at 5:30) til 3 in the afternoon. My customers love me because I go that extra mile... I open the gates to their enclosures when they can't get outside. If it's raining or snowing they know they DON'T have to go outside, I take care of it for them.

Big fucking rich Trash Man... that's me. Rich. Trash. Man. Lots of those around I suspect.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
62. Thanks for this post.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 08:16 AM
Mar 2015

I absolutely love our garbage men and women. I have lived very close to the same are my whole life and our trash personnel have always been great. Always. Such a difficult job. We keep piling the shit up on the side of the street and it keep disappearing. They also give me recognition every single time I am outside when they come.

Question about the job. Since I was a young child my parents had me stand out at the street on the last garbage day before Christmas to give the garbage persons gifts. They normally gave me a couple of 10's to hand to them. As I got older I continued the tradition. It is not really about the money but more about recognizing that they are appreciated. More recently I have started giving gift cards. Do garbage persons respect that? Is their something I am missing from their end that would make that practice disrespectful? In our area most of them make what I would call middle class income. Right on the edge of it anyway. Do they make of like bandits around Christmas? I wouldn't stop doing it if you told me they did. Everyone could use a little cushion around Christmas.

We have used that same day to leave our mailperson a gift also. Many jobs are just relentless and often unappreciated.

Congratulations on your home by the way. Very exciting I'm sure.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
77. LOL I actually like the snow.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:29 PM
Mar 2015

Shoveling, not so much. Being snot-slingin' rich like I am though, I tend to hire people of lower station than I to do the shoveling. People of lower station than your every day trash guy. Pay it forward, right?

This Dodger fan is excited about the upcoming season... you?

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
78. Well, it is an odd-numbered year, so I'm not expecting too much
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:30 PM
Mar 2015


although a healthy Matt Cain plus Bumgarner could pose some problems for youse guys.
 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
79. They always do.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:34 PM
Mar 2015

And if Young Tim were to have one of those "comeback player of the year" years, all the spending goes for nought. Scary time to be a Dodger fan.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
80. Hey, at least you're not in San Jose
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:36 PM
Mar 2015

like one of my colleagues. And he's not even from down there. His mom is, though, and she passed the disease on to him.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
61. They aren't very good at bragging if thats what they are doing.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 08:04 AM
Mar 2015

I'm here just about every day and had no clue they were "loaded."

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
29. I was a Voc Ed/ROP teacher for ten years thank you. I'll call selfish people selfish all day long.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:22 PM
Mar 2015

I know what teachers make, and how hard they work. My credential is a lifetime credential issued by the California Commission on Teacher Credentialing.

They're being selfish, and for no reason I can fathom. For the time it takes to build a new bathroom accessible to those who can't get up the stairs? Give the student a fucking card to hang on the door letting the teacher's know the bathroom is occupied by someone other than (gasp!) a teacher. Do the same for the teachers. Neither of the parties have to cross paths with the other. Fucking hell, the things that CAN'T be done in this country breaks my heart sometimes.

High horses... ever ridden one? I'm guessing you have.

Paychecks and work ethics have absolutely DICK to do with this situation.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
37. The teachers have to file the grievance to force the construction of the accessible bathroom.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:28 PM
Mar 2015

Right now the school just plans on letting the kid use their bathroom in perpetuity. There is currently NO PLAN for adding a permanent accessible facility, because apparently they're assuming this is the only disabled kid they'll ever have to educate or something.

thucythucy

(8,132 posts)
46. The school is then in violation of the IDEA, probably the ADA
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:54 PM
Mar 2015

and also probably the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

And no one noticed this until now?

What the teachers union might do, as an alternative, is request (demand would be better but request is more polite) that the DOE and the DOJ get involved here. Building an accessible rest room all students can use isn't something to be "negotiated." It's required by federal law. Would a teacher's union use such a tactic as a negotiating tool, or a bargaining chip, if the district was blatantly breaking federal civil rights law with regard to African American students?

Where the fuck has everybody been for the past 25, 40, 42 years while these laws were in place, but being ignored?

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
47. Well, they HAD a student bathroom on that floor that they took out.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:58 PM
Mar 2015

But also they clearly need a way to provide better access - this student also won't be able to get to some special classes like music or art (I went to the link and read some more). So the child still doesn't have the legally required access.

Is this the ONLY such child this school will ever have to accommodate? I think not.

The teachers obviously can't use the bathroom if the child is using it. Well, maybe at times the admin is going to have to provide a relief aide to supervise the students when a teacher has to use the upper floor bathroom instead, and that's how the grievance will be settled - but instead everyone assumes that the teachers just want to torture the kid, because that's why they got into teaching.

deathrind

(1,786 posts)
83. You are right, unfortunately.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:46 PM
Mar 2015

People forget that weekends off and vacations were not originally part of deal between labor and management. My post did not convey my point...at all actually now looking in hindsight.

My point was that something like this just gives more red meat for the right to chew on in their on going efforts to break unions.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
52. The attack takes many forms.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 01:52 AM
Mar 2015

Like taking legitimate concerns about compliance with federal laws and fulfilling contractual promises and blaming the big bad teachers. God the spin is infuriating.

deathrind

(1,786 posts)
84. You are correct.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:47 PM
Mar 2015

My post did not convey my point...at all actually now looking in hindsight.

My point was that something like this just gives more red meat for the right to chew on in their on going efforts to break unions and paint them in an unflattering color.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
44. a conflict between two progressive principles - it does happen sometimes - no sense denying that it
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:51 PM
Mar 2015

does indeed happen

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
55. There is no conflict. The school is refusing to accomodate the student and blaming the teachers.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:28 AM
Mar 2015

The school could build a compliant restroom or it could rearrange the classrooms to allow the child access to an appropriate restroom without taking away the teachers' facility. The administration is just using the divide and conquer strategy by making this a false choice between the teachers having an appropriate restroom facility against the child's needs for an ADA accommodation.

People need to become aware of these age old tactics of pitting one group against another.

LeftishBrit

(41,219 posts)
57. One question here: why is there no other accessible toilet in the school?
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 04:35 AM
Mar 2015

While I agree that the staff should allow the pupil to use their bathroom until better arrangements are put in place, this should not have been necessary, as there should be an accessible bathroom for people with disabilities anyway - or better still, all the school bathrooms should be accessible. I am guessing that the school was not purpose-built?

It's unlikely that this is the only disabled pupil that the school will ever have to accommodate. For that matter, what if a pupil has a temporary disability? - this could, for example, mean that a pupil with a broken leg might have to take many unnecessary weeks off school just because of the bathroom facilities.

 

Telcontar

(660 posts)
58. Sometimes being from Alabama is awesome
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 07:55 AM
Mar 2015

I have never seen another State more accommodating to people with disabilities. Having had a governor in a wheelchair definitely had an influence.

dsc

(52,173 posts)
63. How on earth could you have a publc building without a public restroom on the first (entry level)
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 08:45 AM
Mar 2015

floor? I can understand wanting to avoid the expense of retrofitting with an elevator (many schools are older than the ADA or even IDEA) but I can't understand how there could not be a public restroom on the ground floor.

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
64. Turns out the spec ed classroom had a student restroom that was removed recently.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:57 AM
Mar 2015

The school had ventilation issues, so they removed the student restroom in the special education classroom to use the space for a ventilation unit. Furthermore, the kids from the special education classroom have to climb stairs outside to get to the music and art classrooms. The child in the OP article will not be able to participate in music and art due to the fact she cannot climb stairs.

There appears to be a lot more problems going on at this school than are addressed in the newspaper account. It sure looks to me like the teachers filed the grievance to try to get some of the lack of resources for the special education classroom addressed. As usual the teachers are made out as selfish when, in fact, there is a tremendous lack of proper facilities for the students with disabilities.

Please read the entire article at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2015/03/26/Steel-Valley-teachers-unhappy-about-disabled-student-using-bathroom/stories/201503260039 Some of the important information are buried in the article.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
65. There is a bigger ADA issue here and the school district is throwing the teachers under the bus
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:03 AM
Mar 2015

as happens too often.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
66. Maybe you should look a little more closely at this issue.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:28 AM
Mar 2015
"She said the lower level used to have a small students bathroom in the special education room. But recently a ventilation issue forced the district to use that space for a ventilation unit."

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2015/03/26/Steel-Valley-teachers-unhappy-about-disabled-student-using-bathroom/stories/201503260039

Did you read the entire article?
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