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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 01:37 PM Mar 2015

Baker Slams Netanyahu as Obstacle to Peace

Last edited Tue Mar 24, 2015, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Former Secretary of State James Baker harshly criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, echoing White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough’s comments earlier in the day, Haaretz reports.

Baker acknowledged his disappointment with “the lack of progress regarding a lasting peace,” saying that the chances for a two-state solution diminished since Netanyahu’s reelection last week. Baker further slammed Netanyahu’s “diplomatic missteps and political gamesmanship,” saying that the prime minister’s “actions have not matched his rhetoric.”

###

http://p.feedblitz.com/r3.asp?l=103434369&f=17571&u=37190363&c=4915877

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Jim Baker’s Tart Message for Bibi at J Street

Lloyd Green

Bush 41’s secretary of state came out swinging at Israel yesterday. He hasn’t changed—but the Republican Party sure has.

Don’t expect James A. Baker 3d to be tapped for another stint at Foggy Bottom. On Monday night, at J Street’s fifth annual conference, Baker lit into Benjamin Netanyahu and his newly elected, Likud-led government. Never one to mince words, Baker told the crowd, “Frankly, I have been disappointed with the lack of progress regarding a lasting peace—and I have been for some time… in the aftermath of Netanyahu’s recent election victory, the chance of a two-state solution seems even slimmer, given his reversal on the issue.”

Tart as that message might have been, the 84-year-old Baker had gone there before. Baker, who served as George H.W. Bush’s secretary of state, as Ronald Reagan’s treasury secretary, and as White House chief of staff to both Presidents, had laid down a similar line in May 1989 to an earlier Likud prime minister. In a speech to AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Baker told the folks in the room and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzchak Shamir to “lay aside once and for all the unrealistic vision of a greater Israel… reach out to Palestinians as neighbors who deserve political rights.”

Against this backdrop, Baker’s J Street Speech sounded like a stroll down memory lane, and it could have even been delivered by Denis McDonough, the Obama White House chief of staff—and indeed, it was. Earlier on Monday, and also before J Street, McDonough warned Israel against annexing the West Bank, and similarly upbraided Netanyahu for being Netanyahu.

Still, one place, however, where Baker’s words were unwelcome is the current iteration of the Republican Party. As conservative talk radio-host Mark Levin put it, “Jim Baker, much like Barack Obama, has always had a hate on for Israel.” Wow. Levin had lumped Baker in with Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s most famous congregant.

more
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/24/jim-baker-s-tart-message-for-bibi-at-j-street.html

62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Baker Slams Netanyahu as Obstacle to Peace (Original Post) DonViejo Mar 2015 OP
When I read Baker's statements... Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #1
Baker help organize the rallies in Florida against Gore when they were recounting the votes. He is still_one Mar 2015 #54
Yes, he's a Republican who wanted a Republican to win Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #55
Come on. Most of the pretty right wing outspoken republicans don't like Cruz still_one Mar 2015 #58
This is significant! BillZBubb Mar 2015 #2
Baker will no longer be an adviser to Bush after these comments Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #4
So? BillZBubb Mar 2015 #7
James Baker ain't going nowhere Brother Buzz Mar 2015 #14
establishment republicans are now the crazies tk2kewl Mar 2015 #8
Partially true, BillZBubb Mar 2015 #10
The establishment republicans... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #43
Is this James "Fuck the Jews" Baker? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #3
When did he say that? Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #5
Some time back in the 90's. It was a "hot mic" incident. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #6
It sure was a "hot mic" incident...! PCIntern Mar 2015 #23
Do you have a link to a poll, a news release, a memo from a DU administrator declaring DonViejo Mar 2015 #32
Here you are... PCIntern Mar 2015 #33
Thanks, DonViejo. elleng Mar 2015 #49
To be fair, it should be noted that the remark was not made in regards to Israel notadmblnd Mar 2015 #51
The Republicans may yet thank him question everything Mar 2015 #59
Way to play the anti-semite, ad hominem card!!!!! BillZBubb Mar 2015 #11
Really? I didn't address it? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #12
That's a disgusting comment. ismnotwasm Mar 2015 #13
Citing a Baker statement and calling him a "bigot" BillZBubb Mar 2015 #21
He is AGREEING with Baker! MrBig Mar 2015 #24
Why...Baker's no bigot... PCIntern Mar 2015 #36
You would argue that someone that said "F--K the Jews" is not an anti-semite? stevenleser Mar 2015 #15
Your logic is lacking. BillZBubb Mar 2015 #20
Replace the word "Jews" with "blacks" in your example MrBig Mar 2015 #26
Yes. It depends on the context BillZBubb Mar 2015 #27
You're funny. nt PCIntern Mar 2015 #34
That person hasn't figured out how to admit when they are wrong. nt stevenleser Mar 2015 #41
No, it's not. I'm Jewish. It's antisemitic. Ask other Jews what they think. You will get close to stevenleser Mar 2015 #40
in what context would "f*ck the Jews" not be anti-Semitic? uppityperson Mar 2015 #44
The entire quote was: DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #45
But you still don't give the context in which the Baker response occurred. BillZBubb Mar 2015 #46
The inference was that Bush Pere need not do anything for Israel because Jews vote Democratic. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #47
Again, you fail to give the exact context. BillZBubb Mar 2015 #48
Here DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #50
Still not enough there. BillZBubb Mar 2015 #60
Let's try this DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #61
You are still missing the point. What was said to him to elicit the reponse? BillZBubb Mar 2015 #62
Did you read the post? MrBig Mar 2015 #22
There was no "history of anti-Semitic comments". BillZBubb Mar 2015 #30
Out of curiosity, do you disagree with what he said here? LittleBlue Mar 2015 #17
I think pretty much everyone on DU would agree and supports a 2 state solution. But praising Baker stevenleser Mar 2015 #19
I disagree LittleBlue Mar 2015 #29
I can answer whatever posts on DU I want. Your entire line of reasoning here is disgusting. stevenleser Mar 2015 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author LittleBlue Mar 2015 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author IsItJustMe Mar 2015 #56
What part of my comment was unclear? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #35
yes it is, and the same Baker who organized the rallies against Gore when the Florida counts were still_one Mar 2015 #53
Good to hear from a sane Republican occasionally. democrank Mar 2015 #9
For some reason this brought to mind the last 2 lines of Robert Frost's "A Considerable Speck" : Faryn Balyncd Mar 2015 #16
Baker has always been critical of Israel JI7 Mar 2015 #18
He's one of the few republicans who doesn't automatically bow to Israel. BillZBubb Mar 2015 #25
Absolutely correct. Pete” Mccluskey, Charles Percy, and a whole group within the reagan and nixon still_one Mar 2015 #57
Hmmmm gratuitous Mar 2015 #28
You post makes no sense. BillZBubb Mar 2015 #31
Not directly gratuitous Mar 2015 #38
He should include Cotten and Boehner and the gang of 47 Skidmore Mar 2015 #37
Interestingly enough this is not getting wide circulation. Yesterday on Bloomberg they painted the still_one Mar 2015 #52
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
1. When I read Baker's statements...
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 01:44 PM
Mar 2015

I'm reminded of a time when Republicans were actually sane.

Now the media considers John McCain to be a moderate, even though he wants to bomb the shit out of every country on the planet

Of course Jeb Bush quickly distanced himself from Baker's comments:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/jeb-advisor-james-baker-knocks-netanyahus-diplomatic-missteps/

I think it's safe to say that Baker will no longer be an adviser to Bush after this.
.

still_one

(92,506 posts)
54. Baker help organize the rallies in Florida against Gore when they were recounting the votes. He is
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:42 PM
Mar 2015

a snake. He may have a point on this issue, but he is a staunch reagan/bush advocate, and the disaster of those two administrations speaks for themselves

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
55. Yes, he's a Republican who wanted a Republican to win
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:44 PM
Mar 2015

No surprise. I never said he was a Dem.

But he's still sane compared to people like Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton, at least when it comes to foreign policy.

still_one

(92,506 posts)
58. Come on. Most of the pretty right wing outspoken republicans don't like Cruz
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:56 PM
Mar 2015

Peter King threatened to jump off a bridge if Cruz gets the GOP nomination.

Corker while not trashing Cotton, was not pleased at all about the Iranian letter.

In my view Baker was, and is an asshole, and I remember him during air traffic controller strike, and other garbage he was involved in.

If you are looking for reasonable republicans you have to go back to Eisenhower in my view, though compared to the current crop of republicans, nixon would be viewed as a liberal



BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
2. This is significant!
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 01:46 PM
Mar 2015

Baker is the voice of the establishment republicans. His statement adds a bipartisan buttress to what the president is saying.

The US has a long way to go, but thanks to Netanhayu, the days of virtually unanimous kneejerk support for Israel are numbered.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
7. So?
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 01:57 PM
Mar 2015

Bush is running a race geared to the far right of the republican party. Of course, he'll distance himself from Baker during that race.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
8. establishment republicans are now the crazies
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 02:06 PM
Mar 2015

and i really don't give a hoot what Jim Baker thinks even when hhe might agree with me

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
43. The establishment republicans...
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 10:36 PM
Mar 2015

are dying off, while the TP (Tea Party or Toilet Paper, you decide ) republicans are taking over.

PCIntern

(25,643 posts)
23. It sure was a "hot mic" incident...!
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:11 PM
Mar 2015

Now James Baker is the new hero of DU!!! WOW!

He's an anti-Semite of the first order...oh...am I allowed to say that here? My apologies to the JAMES BAKER FAN CLUB. DU's new best friend...

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
32. Do you have a link to a poll, a news release, a memo from a DU administrator declaring
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:26 PM
Mar 2015

James Baker "is the new hero of DU"?

Would you also be so kind to point me in the direction of the Baker Fan Club at DU, I want to see who those folks are. And so far, the only person that has declared Baker "DU's new best friend" is you.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
51. To be fair, it should be noted that the remark was not made in regards to Israel
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:32 PM
Mar 2015

The remark was made in context of Jews in the US vote Democratic and not Republican. Was the remark improper? Yes, I think so, but that quote alone does not make James Baker an anti Semite.

question everything

(47,583 posts)
59. The Republicans may yet thank him
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 03:58 PM
Mar 2015

They know that they need to "reach out to minorities" and these usually are African Americans and Latinos.

A recent comment said that just getting the white votes that Bush got in 2004 won't be enough.

Oh, but what a prize to split the Jewish vote that traditionally has been a reliable Democratic block.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
11. Way to play the anti-semite, ad hominem card!!!!!
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 02:33 PM
Mar 2015

Nothing Baker said is untrue concerning Netanyahu. But you don't address that.

Behind the Aegis

(54,053 posts)
12. Really? I didn't address it?
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 02:51 PM
Mar 2015
See, even a bigot is right every now and again.

That's right there, in the very post to which you responded!

MrBig

(640 posts)
24. He is AGREEING with Baker!
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:12 PM
Mar 2015

If David Duke made a comment you agreed with, would you then defend his character? Or would you acknowledge that, on this issue, there is agreement, while still acknowledging the guy is a bigot?

PCIntern

(25,643 posts)
36. Why...Baker's no bigot...
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:34 PM
Mar 2015

He's a GREAT GUY who also said, "Fuck the Jews". What seems to be the problem around here?

just in case...

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
15. You would argue that someone that said "F--K the Jews" is not an anti-semite?
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 03:20 PM
Mar 2015

And I suppose you would defend someone that uses the N word as not a racist, and someone who uses the word f-g to describe a member of the LGBT community is not a homophobe, right?

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
20. Your logic is lacking.
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:07 PM
Mar 2015

Using the N word is racist. Using the F word is homophobic. Using the word Jews is not. It is certainly not anti-Semitic.

Adding the words "fu_k the" in front of it might be anti-Semitic depending on the context. The context is everything. My guess is that Baker is not an anti-Semite and that he was referring to a certain group of Jews who were demanding he do something he didn't want to do, not all Jews in general. There is certainly no other evidence that he is anti-Semitic.

Besides, attacking him is a deflection from the truth he spoke about Netanyahu.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
40. No, it's not. I'm Jewish. It's antisemitic. Ask other Jews what they think. You will get close to
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 08:07 PM
Mar 2015

100% agreement with me.

uppityperson

(115,681 posts)
44. in what context would "f*ck the Jews" not be anti-Semitic?
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 11:42 PM
Mar 2015

Are you saying he meant "fuck those people over there" not "the Jews"?

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,719 posts)
45. The entire quote was:
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 11:55 PM
Mar 2015

"Fuck the Jews. They didn't vote for us (Republicans) any way."

He said it in a Cabinet meeting and Jack Kemp who was the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development at the time dropped the dime on him ergo:




(Or that James Baker, his father's secretary of State and closest of friends, was famously quoted as saying, "Fuck the Jews; they didn't vote for us anyway.&quot



http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/politics/columns/citypolitic/4022/

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
46. But you still don't give the context in which the Baker response occurred.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 11:05 AM
Mar 2015

It's his reply to something someone else said. What was said to him?

For instance, if the statement Baker heard was something like "...Jews are demanding that we adopt policy X" when policy Y was what Baker favored, his reply is not anti-Semitic. In this context he was simply repeating the word used in the original statement about a group of Jews being referenced.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,719 posts)
47. The inference was that Bush Pere need not do anything for Israel because Jews vote Democratic.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 11:10 AM
Mar 2015

The money shot:


"Fuck the Jews. They didn't vote for us anyway."

-James Baker

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
48. Again, you fail to give the exact context.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 01:55 PM
Mar 2015

I understand what Baker said, but I want to know the exact wording he was responding to.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,719 posts)
50. Here
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:17 PM
Mar 2015

Nor does the film explore a notorious quote attributed to Baker—and denied by him—when American supporters of Israel complained that the Republican secretary of state was being too tough on the Jewish state. “Fuck the Jews; they don’t vote for us,” he allegedly exclaimed in the presence of Bush I’s Housing Secretary, the late Jack Kemp.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/james-baker-s-absurd-pbs-hagiography.html


Substitute any other group for Jews and see how ugly it sounds...

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
60. Still not enough there.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 05:04 PM
Mar 2015

From the limited context available, this was an issue of POLICY and POLITICS, not religious heritage. It is akin to Baker saying "Fu_k the Democrats" or "Fu_k the Liberals" on some other issue.

Crude, hardball politics, but not anti-Semitism.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,719 posts)
61. Let's try this
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 05:07 PM
Mar 2015

HIV had a disparate effect on gays...

What if Ronald Reagan in a Cabinet meeting to increase AIDS research funding said "fuck the gays, they didn't vote for us (Republicans) any way?"

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
62. You are still missing the point. What was said to him to elicit the reponse?
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 05:16 PM
Mar 2015

If someone said, "Oh Great Communicator, the gays are demanding we increase money for AIDS research." The response you gave would simply be crude politics. It wouldn't make him, by itself, to be a homophobe.

Now, if he had used a derogatory term for gays, that would make a difference. Same thing in Baker's instance.

MrBig

(640 posts)
22. Did you read the post?
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:09 PM
Mar 2015

BtA actually agreed with Baker's comments while rightfully chastising him for a history of anti-Semitic comments.

Why so quick to defend the character of a Reagan/Bush Republican?

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
30. There was no "history of anti-Semitic comments".
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:22 PM
Mar 2015

There was one comment taken out of context.

What I was doing was fighting the attempt to change the topic of the thread. The fact that a prominent senior republican blasted Netanyahu is important. It adds a bipartisan flavor to what the president is trying to achieve.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
17. Out of curiosity, do you disagree with what he said here?
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 03:41 PM
Mar 2015

Do you support Netanyahu or the two-state solution?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
19. I think pretty much everyone on DU would agree and supports a 2 state solution. But praising Baker
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:05 PM
Mar 2015

whose prior comment paints him as an anti-semite is not necessary.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
29. I disagree
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:20 PM
Mar 2015

I think we have a handful of Likudniks at DU and I'd like to know their names. These discussions are useful in identifying them.

You don't need to cover for that poster, he/she can answer my question on their own.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
39. I can answer whatever posts on DU I want. Your entire line of reasoning here is disgusting.
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 08:05 PM
Mar 2015

What racists have to say about African American equality, what homophobes have to say about LGBT equality and what anti-semites have to say about Jewish rights and security should not matter to Liberals and DUers and that includes, if like a broken clock, they happen to get something right once in a long while.

Baker's antisemitic statement removes him from consideration on anything impacting Jews or Israel.

And that poster's statement was clear about whether they believed in a two-state solution. Baker notwithstanding.

Response to stevenleser (Reply #39)

Response to stevenleser (Reply #39)

still_one

(92,506 posts)
53. yes it is, and the same Baker who organized the rallies against Gore when the Florida counts were
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:40 PM
Mar 2015

being done.

democrank

(11,112 posts)
9. Good to hear from a sane Republican occasionally.
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 02:10 PM
Mar 2015

They`re few and far between, but once in awhile a sane one breaks free from the enclosure and steps up to the microphone.

Faryn Balyncd

(5,125 posts)
16. For some reason this brought to mind the last 2 lines of Robert Frost's "A Considerable Speck" :
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 03:34 PM
Mar 2015





A Considerable Speck


"A speck that would have been beneath my sight
On any but a paper sheet so white
Set off across what I had written there.
And I had idly poised my pen in air
To stop it with a period of ink
When something strange about it made me think,
This was no dust speck by my breathing blown,
But unmistakably a living mite
With inclinations it could call its own.
It paused as with suspicion of my pen,
And then came racing wildly on again
To where my manuscript was not yet dry;
Then paused again and either drank or smelt--
With loathing, for again it turned to fly.
Plainly with an intelligence I dealt.
It seemed too tiny to have room for feet,
Yet must have had a set of them complete
To express how much it didn't want to die.
It ran with terror and with cunning crept.
It faltered: I could see it hesitate;
Then in the middle of the open sheet
Cower down in desperation to accept
Whatever I accorded it of fate.
I have none of the tenderer-than-thou
Collectivistic regimenting love
With which the modern world is being swept.
But this poor microscopic item now!
Since it was nothing I knew evil of
I let it lie there till I hope it slept.

I have a mind myself and recognize
Mind when I meet with it in any guise
No one can know how glad I am to find
On any sheet the least display of mind.
"


Robert Frost





It really is good to see glimpses of sanity, even from surprising sources!







JI7

(89,287 posts)
18. Baker has always been critical of Israel
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 03:44 PM
Mar 2015

people always have this black/white view of people.

it's only in recent years where republicans are mostly seen as pro israel and that has more to do with their evangelical supporters and just being anti muslim .

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
25. He's one of the few republicans who doesn't automatically bow to Israel.
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:14 PM
Mar 2015

He had a few dust ups with Israel when Reagan was president. He isn't always critical, just when they got too extreme for American interests.

I do agree that the republicans have become more pro-Israel. This has happened for a number of reasons: those you mentioned and the fact the Israel's politics have become more right wing.

still_one

(92,506 posts)
57. Absolutely correct. Pete” Mccluskey, Charles Percy, and a whole group within the reagan and nixon
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:50 PM
Mar 2015

administration were not just critical of Israel, they despised the Jews, as evidenced by the Nixon tapes. In fact his conversations with Billy Graham were made a lot of headlines at the time.

The ironic thing is that evangelical Christians in the past have not been that friendly toward Jews either, and I suspect the current change in attitude is more to THEIR interpretation of biblical prophecy than actual change of heart

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
28. Hmmmm
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:19 PM
Mar 2015

Considering Baker's ongoing meddling in the Middle East on behalf of his oil industry buddies, it seems that his pique with Netanyahu may have something to do with oil, its ownership, who gets to pump it, how much they get to pump, and whether or not the world market for oil stays strong and dependable so Baker's bankrollers can be sure the money keeps flowing.

I wonder if any Republicans are going to characterize Baker's remarks as a temper tantrum that Baker should get over? Or is that sort of language reserved for . . . well, not "blah" people, because it's never about race, so stop saying that!

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
31. You post makes no sense.
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:25 PM
Mar 2015

Netanyahu has nothing to do with who will own oil, who pumps it, or how much they pump.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
38. Not directly
Tue Mar 24, 2015, 04:39 PM
Mar 2015

But it appears from recent reports that Netanyahu has been siphoning off information from the Iran negotiations and feeding it to his Republican pals in Congress, trying to scuttle any deal before it's even negotiated. Keeping the region volatile has an effect on the oil producing countries in that region. If Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, or some other country is feeling skittish, they might increase production so as to have some more ready cash on hand. Increased supply will bring down the price, and Baker's great and good friends in the oil industry don't much care for smaller returns, especially after the last bout of lower oil prices that brought the pump price in some places in the U.S. to less than $2 a gallon. They've suffered enough already.

Wheels within wheels, and nowadays whenever I see James Baker getting publicly huffy about something (he's a lot more comfortable in the shadows or the penumbra at this stage in his loathesome career), I suspect it has to do with some direct impact on his wallet.

still_one

(92,506 posts)
52. Interestingly enough this is not getting wide circulation. Yesterday on Bloomberg they painted the
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:36 PM
Mar 2015

picture in a very subtle way that President Obama was not being flexible.

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