Is Ted Cruz even eligible to be President?

[Paula Sims]

Qualified? Of course not! I wouldn't even vote him in on the Republican primaries for fear of his actually getting through. . .

That said, is he even eligible? I know he was born in Canada to an American Mother, but doesn't that make him ineligible? I know what the birthers will say, but seriously, anyone have an answer to this one?


thanks

Paula

[WhiteTara]

1. Hey, hey Paula

I think you are correct. I wonder if anyone out "there" will notice or will it remain a well discussed issue on DU and no where else?

[pinboy3niner]

49. ...I want to marry yoooo

Nice classic song reference!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Well, that should confuse the birthers,

since they claim Obama was born in Kenya to an American mother and is therefore ineligible to be president. Is it just that Canada is mostly populated by white people, so that means it's really OK if someone was born in Canada to an American mother, instead of Kenya? I'm not sure how they are going to manage this.

[KingCharlemagne]

3. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Canada our

51st state?

See, problem solved!

[PCIntern]

5. No…it's OK...

He's a Republican.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. I don't think the Canadians see it that way,

but since I live in Minnesota it would be OK with me if Canada annexed my state.

[KingCharlemagne]

8. OT but during the protests against the Iraq War in 2003, I saw a great hand-written

sign out here in Los Angeles that said simply,

"Canada, please liberate us. We apologize for all the moose jokes!"

My wife and I still laugh about that one to this day.

[cilla4progress]

11. Don't you have a

Great governor now?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. We do have a great governor, for now.

But the 'baggers are always trying to take over.

[AngryAmish]

40. No, it is America's largest national park.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

4. Yes, he's a natural born citizen

That's what so stupid about the whole birther thing with President Obama...even if he had been born in Kenya, he was born to an American citizen, which made him a citizen at birth, which is all the Constitution requires.

[Panich52]

36. While back, ran across article full of US legaleze discussing Cruz. It's conclusion was that since

his father was an immigrant, Cruz wasn't eligible. But it also concluded that since Obama's father wasn't a US citizen, he wasn't a legit prez either.

Didn't have time then to delve into motives of the site -- RW, conspiracy, ... (Tried to find it before replying but couldn't.)

I have a feeling that US law has changed (or they misread) re idea that eligibility relies on patriarchical citizenship only.

[Lurks Often]

7. Yes, according to the US State Department website

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

More accurately, yes, as long as the parent(s) followed the procedures listed at the above link.

[BlueMTexpat]

10. Thanks for providing facts,

rather than mere opinion ...

If more would do so, this issue should be relegated to the dustbin once and for all. The crazies will always believe what they want to (even then IOKIYAR, as with all else), but legally, this "issue" w/r/t Cruz is a non-starter.

But I can't help wishing that there was some problem in complying with the rules ... which has likely been superseded by events if Cruz has been issued with a US passport and had no problem getting it.

What could actually prove to be a more problematic issue w/r/t Cruz is dual nationality. Despite what some still believe about President Obama (the crazies are birthers), he was not a dual national by the time he ran for political office in the US. http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/obamas-kenyan-citizenship/

[cilla4progress]

12. But I don't know that

American citizenship acquired this way qualifies one to be president? Sorry, I didn't read all materials at link.

[cali]

17. as natural born citizen has never been defined as anything other than that, yes

he is qualified.

[rogerashton]

34. I demand that he produce the

Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America (CRBA)!!

Otherwise, either he is NOT a citizen of the United States, or he was naturalized -- and naturalized citizens are specifically excluded, I believe.

[Aletheia]

9. Nobody really knows

I think the correct law school Con Law exam answer is nobody knows for sure. The constitution does not define "natural born citizen" so we're left to interpret it. Does it mean no C-Section babies? Probably not. Does it mean born on American soil, or does it mean two citizen parents, or one citizen parent?

In defense of the 'baggers, Vatell's Law of Nations does state that "[t]he natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens." That said, hearing strict constructionist Christan conservative constitutionalists citing a text regarding international law by a French author in interpreting the US Constitutional law drips with delicious irony.

Personally, I think the most reasonable interpretation is to read it as drawing a distinction between citizens by birth and naturalized citizens. Given that, I do think he is eligible.

[dembotoz]

13. welcome to du!!!!! The way i was taught it was there was concern that a foreign born (british)

person could win the election and the clause was to ensure that you had to at least be born here.

at the time in Europe-foreign born royalty could ascend to the crown thru marriage

[brer cat]

14. Welcome to DU, Aletheia.

[cali]

15. yes, he's eligible. this birther crap is really irritating.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

18. "this birth crap is really irritating"

I couldn't agree more!!!

[gratuitous]

41. Indeed it is

But I'll still do my best to piss off the sort of supporters who are drawn to Calgary Ted by reminding them that their hero wasn't born in this country. I call it the goose and gander principle, sometimes referred to as turnabout is fair play.

[tammywammy]

57. +1 n/t

[rickford66]

16. We should demand to see all his papers.

Long forms. elementary, HS and college records. Driving records. Travel records. Medical and dental records. All email. Why stop there? Demand a complete psychological evaluation and a complete fact check of everything he's ever written and spoken that's on the public record. Oh. I almost forgot ... a drug test.

[android fan]

23. You forgot two more..

1) Alcohol test
2) Pickled liver test...

[Saphire]

19. perhaps we could get orly taitz to look into it??

:

[catbyte]

32. Wow, haven't heard from her in awhile. Has the California Bar disbarred her yet?

[Zambero]

20. Alberta, Canada borders the U.S.

Both are predominantly English-speaking former British colonies with majority white populations. Wolves migrate back and forth, so why not delusional humans as well?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

24. Seriously?

And what have you heard?

[cali]

25. I'm calling bullshit.

[mercuryblues]

26. This question

has and will drive the birthers crazy. When Rmoney ran they questioned his eligibility. They had been told for years that because Obama's father was not a US citizen, he was not eligible for the presidency. They fell for it hook line and sinker. Then it became known that Rmoney's father was born in Mexico.

They wondered how Rmoney could run and not Obama. The situations were the same. Mothers both born in the US. They were born in the US, but fathers were born outside the US. They explained it away by saying one of Rmoney's grandparents were born in the US before moving to Mexico. Therefor Rmoney's father was considered a citizen at birth. I did notice there was not a lot of birtherism in that election cycle. ssshhh. maybe they won't notice the hypocrisy. Heads stopped exploding.

Even McCain had a bit of a birtherism problem,. He, as we all know was born in Panama to 2 US citizen parents. The claim is that he was born on a military base automatically made him a citizen. Even the claim he Panama was a territory of the US at that time. Neither is 100% true. Citizens of a territory are not automatically US citizens and oversees bases are not considered to be US territory therefor being born on a military base oversees does not automatically confer citizenship. Now add to this that there is not any paperwork to be found registering him as a child born oversees. (When my sister-n-law gave birth at a oversees military base, she had to file a form called something like "A child born abroad" Even then my niece had duel citizenship until she was 18.) There is no record of McCain having one.

It got so bad that the senate passed a non-binding resolution that, yes, he is a US citizen.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/sres511/text

Now that being said, does this mean I believe Cruz has a birther problem. Not really. Though I will have fun shoving it into teabageer faces. At least Obama was actually born in the USofA. Not that socialist country, Canada.

[rickford66]

38. I remember reading that Romney's grandfather gave up US citizenship.

When his family fled to Mexico because of his Mormon marriages. But, I may be wrong.

[mercuryblues]

43. you are

most likely right. I didn't feel like getting the google machine geared up for all that. I just remembered reading the RWNJ "logic" behind why Rmoney was a real citizen and Obama wasn't, under the same exact circumstances. Mittens was born in Detroit. So it really doesn't matter where his parents were born or if they were US citizens. The same would be true of Obama. Unless you subscribe to the RWNJ of birtherism theory that since Obama's father was not a US citizen, so Obama himself is ineligible. Their heads were exploding when faced with their stupid hypocrisy. They had to be appeased, this was one way it was done.

This OP and the replies are comedic gold or performance art.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/mitt-romney-not-a-natural-born-citizen/

[Paulie]

27. Did he officially renounce his Canadian citizenship?

[jberryhill]

30. That's irrelevant

[Paulie]

37. It's relavent from a optics

"Ted, you serve which country with your two citizenships?"

[jberryhill]

44. I think Ted Cruz supporters believe him sufficiently "patriotic"

In the manner they define that term.

[underpants]

46. Yes. Last year.

Sorry apparently I can't post links on this phone.

[jberryhill]

28. Yes

Over 35 - check

Resident 14 years - check

A citizen of the US by birthright - check

[Agschmid]

31. Yes. Delete this post it's foolish.

[Cleita]

33. I want to see his certificate of proof of citizenship. I was born in a foreign

country to a born in Illinois American father and I had to officially get such a certificate. I was also told, as were other children born overseas of American parents, that I couldn't run for President by the presiding judge unless I had been born on an embassy or military base, but many here have disputed that with me so I really don't know if he can if he has such proof.

[BlueMTexpat]

45. Originally, requirements for obtaining and retention of

US citizenship for those born abroad were stricter. Apart from simply getting official documentation of birth abroad to a US citizen, those born abroad to US citizens (apart from those born on embassies or military bases that are officially considered to be US "territory&quot also had to satisfy a US residence requirement for a certain number of years between certain ages in order to confirm their US citizenship or other such. But those requirements were later dropped.

Depending on when you had to undergo the process to verify your own US citizenship, the presiding judge may have been operating under one of the previous iterations. How to obtain/retain US citizenship for a child born abroad, especially when only one parent is a US citizen, has gone through several confusing changes.

But it is widely understood that a "natural born" person acquires US citizenship at birth, while anyone else acquires it by being naturalized, which is a whole different process. So, should you actually wish to present yourself as a candidate for US President, your birth abroad should not be the disqualifier. And Ted Cruz also qualifies as a natural born US citizen, I am most sorry to say.

For a very interesting historical overview of the subject, I highly recommend the following link: https://americansabroad.org/files/8813/3589/8133/childcit.pdf

I have had the very great pleasure of knowing both the late Andy Sundberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Sundberg) and Warren Furth (

), both of whom were also staunch Democrats, of course!

[Cleita]

48. This is a person trying to be President of the USA.

He needs more stringent documentation than the average Joe looking for a government job. If President Obama was required to publish his extended birth certificate, so Cruz needs to offer his proof of citizenship.

btw as recently as a few years ago, I had to present such a document to get a passport.

[BlueMTexpat]

50. Frankly, I think that the whole issue

of his Canadian birth is wholly superseded by the fact that he is a lying, right-wing, hypocritical Jesus freak who cares nothing about the long-term - or even short-term - future and prosperity of America or Americans who are not part of the 1%.

There is a LOT of substance to attack him for. His citizenship status is not one of them, IMO.

[Cleita]

54. It has a pest factor, like the birther movement. Keeps him on the defense or are you

not into sports?

[BlueMTexpat]

60. True - it has a pest factor!

And given how outrageously the "birthers" - deafening silence from them in this case - have behaved towards Prez O, Cruz should also be taken to task for it for as long as possible, if for no other reason than to demonstrate how much of a non-issue it is.

But just as long as we here at DU realize that it IS a non-starter legally - unless it can be proven that Cruz acquired his US citizenship other than by birth (which seems remote) or that someone can discover a law or case precedent stating that "natural-born" in the sense of being eligible as a candidate for the US Presidency does NOT apply to those born outside the US to one US citizen parent!

Otherwise, we are no better than Orly Taitz!

[Cleita]

61. Speaking of who, Stephanie Miller wants to ask her about this

considering she claims to be a lawyer and all.

[onenote]

53. Of course, President Obama wasn't "required" to publish his birth certificate

He chose to do so in an effort to shut up a bunch of dickwads.

[Cleita]

56. So why not make him shut up our dickwads and I'm one of them. eom

[UTUSN]

35. Yes by birth, but NO by smarts, looks, talent, or other such features of humanity. n/t

[Jim Lane]

39. Yes, he's eligible, but the simplistic answer you'll sometimes see is wrong.

Under current law, a child born abroad to one citizen parent and one noncitizen parent is a citizen at birth. Although the Constitution sets the "natural born citizen" requirement, it doesn't define it. The most sensible interpretation is that a child is eligible if the child was a citizen at birth, without naturalization or a retroactive change in the law. By that standard, a child born today in Cruz's situation would be eligible.

BUT the law was different when Cruz and Obama were born. At that time, the foreign-born child was automatically a citizen only if certain other requirements were met. One of those requirements was that the citizen parent must have lived in the U.S. for at least five years after attaining the age of 14. Obama's mother was only 18 when he was born so she didn't meet this requirement. If Obama had in fact been born in Kenya, he wouldn't be eligible. Of course, there's no evidence that he was born in Kenya, so the whole "issue" is silly, but, contrary to what you'll see over and over on DU (including in this thread), the birther argument is not based on misreading the law.

As for Cruz, his mother was older. As a matter of what any sensible person would conclude, she had in fact lived in the U.S. for more than five years. As a matter of technicalities, though, can she prove that? What proof is acceptable? Who decides? Which side has the burden of proof? She's still alive and she could swear to it under oath, but she probably doesn't have her utility bills from the 1960's. She could have averted this problem by doing some paperwork with the consulate at the time of her son's birth, but IIRC she didn't bother.

From Cruz's Wikipedia bio:

Cruz's mother was born and raised in Wilmington, Delaware,[23] in a family of Irish and Italian descent.[21][26] She was the first person in her family to attend college. She earned an undergraduate degree in mathematics from Rice University in Houston in the 1950s, working summers at Foley's and Shell Oil.[34] She later worked in Houston as a computer programmer at Shell.[27]

Evidence that she ever lived outside the U.S. before she and her husband moved to Canada is on a par with evidence that Obama's mother flew to Kenya to deliver her son -- that is, nonexistent. Both arguments are ridiculous. Of course, there's at least some room, for those so inclined, to demand, of any Obama birthers who now support Cruz, that they produce definitive proof of his mother's residence after she turned 14.

BTW, some of the birthers on Free Republic contend that Cruz and McCain (both born outside the U.S.) and even Jindal (born in the U.S. but to noncitizen parents) are ineligible.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

42. Great info, thanks for the post! n/t

[840high]

59. Thanks.

[underpants]

47. Yes. In 2008 the Senate declared that McCain was eligible and SCOTUS did the same for The CalgaryKid

McCain was born in Panama - supposedly in the Naval hospital, which seems highly unlikely for a third generation Admiral in 1936.

[NCTraveler]

51. Yes. nt.

[Man from Pickens]

52. yes he's eligible

no it doesn't matter because he hasn't a prayer in hell of winning

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

55. When was the last time a US President had to renounce foreign citizenship?

I'm given to understand 'Calgary Cruz' was born with Canadian citizenship and gave it up. So my trivia question - who was the last US President to have to give up foreign citizenship?

[Agnosticsherbet]

58. Check out Ted Cruz is Canadian.

http://tedcruz.ca/