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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUN expert slams US as only nation to imprison kids for life without parole
I don't understand how anyone could think we are superior to the rest of the world when it comes to human rights. We violate human rights all the time. Police kill people with impunity, which is due in part to prosecutors that refuse to charge a police officer knowing they have to have the the cooperation of the police in all cases. We have passed laws to legally rape women who seek to control their reproductive health and terminate a pregnancy. We throw away mentally ill people on the streets or prisons without any help. We incarcerate people for life with a "three strikes" law that has put at least one person in jail for life after stealing a pizza. We have the death penalty. The death penalty is administered in horrific ways.
Though there are more ways in which the USA treats people without humanity, the worst is, IMHO, is incarceration children to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Until the 2005 SCOTUS ruling Roper v. Simmons, we actually, legally executed, 365 children, 22 of those executions took place after 1976 when the death penalty was reinstated. There are 22 states that have no minimum age to charge children as adults. With states that have an age specific law, the youngest is 10. Ten years old.
Not surprisingly, the majority of children transferred to criminal court are African American
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_as_an_adult
Surprisingly, not all transfers of children to criminal court are for violent crimes. Over 15% are for drug charges. I can't even wrap my head around putting a child in prison, with adult offenders, for drugs.
There are only 14 States and the District of Columbia that do not put children in jail for life, without the possibility of parole.
The ramifications of children being imprisoned with adults are horrific. Though there are others, the two major consequences are, they are more likely victims of crime inside and are more likely to commit violent crimes when released.
Most of the sentences imposed on these children were mandatory: the court could not give any consideration to the childs age or life history. Some of the children were charged with crimes that do not involve homicide or even injury; many were convicted for offenses where older teens or adults were primarily responsible for the crime; 70% of condemned kids 14 or younger are children of color.
http://www.eji.org/childrenprison/deathinprison
Now the US is being singled out by the UN for the only nation that continues the practice of incarcerating children until their death.
The vast majority of states have taken note of the international human rights requirements regarding life imprisonment of children without the possibility of release, Juan Méndez, the United Nations special rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment, said in his report, before noting that the United States is the only country to continue the practice.
A sentence of life without parole means life and death in prison a practice considered cruel and inhumane punishment for juveniles under both international and U.S. law.
Life sentences or sentences of an extreme length have a disproportionate impact on children and cause physical and psychological harm that amounts to cruel, inhuman or degrading punishment, the report reads.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/9/un-expert-slams-us-as-only-nation-to-sentence-kids-to-life-without-parole.html
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=0RQIVdaaOpCayATTgIHIBg&url=http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/jj_State_Responses_to_Miller.pdf&ved=0CBwQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHIEYq_pUglWCySwgECzr4O7cru2w
http://fairsentencingofyouth.org/what-is-jlwop/
Many of the children sentenced to spend their entire life in prison have many problems in their lives, from mental illness to physical and/or sexual abuse. In some states those circumstances are not even taken into account.
This should be something we fight to change in all states that have not changed laws after the Miller decision. If your State allows a child to be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, then changing that law should be a major consideration in all elections at the State level.
This is so much more than an embarrassment. We wonder why we have problems of violence and racism in our country. We need only look to how we treat our children.
More links with good information.
http://ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/structure_process/qa04105.asp?qaDate=2011&text=
https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform-human-rights/us-looks-overseas-human-rights-abuses-and-ignores-un-report-cr
H2O Man
(73,656 posts)Thank you for this.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I was surprised there wasn't already a post about this. At least not one I could find. But then I thought about our MSM.
How do they not report this?
TheBlackAdder
(28,239 posts)I can't even believe we privatize prison. That is just beyond the beyond.
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)them after maturation and rehabilitation.
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)recidivism in these countries as a general rule.
You also have to keep in mind that convicted murderers have the lowest recidivism of all criminal activity. Most are committed in an intense moment of passion and very poor judgment. Murderers are not like people who commit of poverty or drug addiction or sexual addiction usually. With rehabilitation and maturation most murderers are able to address and correct the behavior that led to the killing.
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)"Most are committed in an intense moment of passion and very poor judgment"
"With rehabilitation and maturation most murderers are able to address and correct the behavior "
these are good things to keep in mind
marym625
(17,997 posts)On recidivism and maturation. The PDF from Juvenile Justice and the Wikipedia both contain good information and further links
marym625
(17,997 posts)And frankly ,until we fix what we do, wtf difference does it make? Should we do what another country does? Or should we lead by example? Or should we condemn another country while we are being inhumane to our children?
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)what's wrong with asking a question and how can we " lead by example" if everyone does it but us. how can we lead if we're already last
marym625
(17,997 posts)I am saying we should do the right thing.
We can't lead as we are now. We need to change laws that allow a child to be sentenced to die in prison.
Your question seemed mocking. If I misread it, I apologize.
That doesn't change my answer. We shouldn't look to other places for how we run things to know we need to be more humane. The entire reason that the juvenile courts came into existence was to rehabilitate. We seldom even try anymore, even in the juvenile system.
We have enough data, psychological reviews, studies, etc to know we have to change our system for children. This includes all children in the court system. It isn't just children who killed that have been sentenced to lwop. 15% are in for drug charges. Some convicted of accomplice to murder and weren't even there when the crime was committed.
Other countries try to rehabilitate. They don't allow a child to remain in the prison for the rest of their lives. There are time limits on both time to serve and when parole is possible
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)for lwop for kids- the u.s. seems to be creating a p.i.c. with states guaranteeing a 90% OCCUPANCY how can you guarantee something like that without putting in kids, innocent people and people w/minor infractions , our prison system is now for profit so now it will become an insane process. what has happened to our humanity?
marym625
(17,997 posts)Where is our humanity?
Nicely said. Thank you.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... fuck em.
Let 'em rot...
The families of their victims will never get their loved ones back, why should the families of the murderers?
Other categories of offenders are open to discussion...
marym625
(17,997 posts)So, the fact their brains aren't fully developed, their capacity to completely understand the ramifications of their acts, their backgrounds, what they have suffered in their short lives, whether they are mentally ill, etc, or the fact they could be rehabilitated, should have no baring on the sentence?
Wow. Sure hope you are not on the jury for a 10 year old.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)Even a child knows that if you stab someone in the head they are going to die and won't come back...
Yes, even a 10 year old...
I have compassion for victims...
marym625
(17,997 posts)I have compassion for the victim as well. Sometimes, especially with children, the assailant is also a victim.
Since rehabilitation is more than just a possibility, it truly amazes me that anyone would not want to achieve that for a child.
I just hope your opinion is the minority.
I do thank you for your thoughts.
kcr
(15,320 posts)about those mysterious far off mystical socialist lands with roving bands of child killers?
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)kcr
(15,320 posts)Great! Welcome to the club
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)something constructive to add and i appreciated the input even though i dont know that poster either -
why are some people on du so argumentative and combative
kcr
(15,320 posts)Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Can't really do more than that.
Romeo.lima333
(1,127 posts)it was to the other poster who put words in my mouth then started trying to argue with me over the words he put there
TheKentuckian
(25,034 posts)we are Team America: Global Police
We are far closer to global cancer than shining city on the hill.
marym625
(17,997 posts)This is something that I have found abhorrent since I was a child. I remember when the death penalty was reinstated and I was shocked at that alone. But when I found out kids were included, it just changed my mind about so many things regarding the US and our world police force.
valerief
(53,235 posts)are all about? That and vote suppression and revolution containment.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Control and contain. An abhorrent practice.
Ilsa
(61,709 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I have to wonder if that is because their families have little or no means of putting up a defense for their child along with racial bias against AAs. I don't know that for sure, just taking a guess.
I would rather see people rehabilitated than jailed forever. That being said there are some people who need to stay there, the problem is how that decision is made.
I met someone a long time ago who was sentence to life in prison as a minor (I don't think it was life in prison without parole) and when I worked as a volunteer. I believe if memory serves me right he killed his father. In talking to him he really wasn't a bad guy, but something clearly happened and he had been in prison for a good number of years (he was in his early 20's at the time). The system had clearly made him worse.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)
But "the one thing that bothers you"? It's a horrifying part of the statistics. Absolutely no doubt. But the entire thing bothers me.
I'm assuming that there are many factors that go into the fact that AA children are more likely to be sentenced to lwop is the same thing that causes more black men and women to be charged, incarcerated and with longer sentences. Racism. Pure, simple, disgusting, racism.
Some states have a mandatory change to criminal court depending on the crime. Some are judicial discretion, some prosecutorial. When you have more black children being arrested, then add in people deciding if the kid is transferred, with good old fashioned, American racism, you're going to get more black children sentenced.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)"In Yemen, it is unlawful to sentence child offenders to capital punishment, though it happens in practice. It is also unlawful to sentence persons under 18 to life imprisonment. However, persons under 18 may lawfully be sentenced to corporal punishment, including flogging and amputation."
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CCPR/Shared%20Documents/YEM/INT_CCPR_NGO_YEM_104_10334_E.pdf
I imagine there are lots of other countries where kids get sent to jail and don't make it out alive or in one piece.
marym625
(17,997 posts)And that's some wicked stuff you linked to. Horrible!
But we need to look at ourselves. We have to change our laws and practices before we can condemn others.
Thanks for the information
marym625
(17,997 posts)I had a really difficult time doing that in the OP. Just wondering if there is an easier way.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)Nice to see you.
Trillo
(9,154 posts)I remember watching the TV back then, there were many advertisements for the policy played over and over, quite hypnotic, "Three strikes and you're out."
marym625
(17,997 posts)I assume you remember the pizza thing. The poor guy that stole a pizza and now is in prison for life. I was living in California when that happened. There was outrage but that didn't stop it from happening
Trillo
(9,154 posts)I seem to recall something about Three Strikes no longer applying if the offense was non-violent. That pizza slice guy should have been released.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I don't know if he was. I think, now that you mention it, it was changed but not retroactively.
I will look it up
marym625
(17,997 posts)One guy served 5 years, the other is still in prison. So is the guy that stole a pair of socks worth $2.50
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/cruel-and-unusual-punishment-the-shame-of-three-strikes-laws-20130327?page=2
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)to our corrupt police state. In return our prison industry gives heavily to individual politicians.
It's the cycle of death.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Yet, an apt comparison.