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http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-8-worst-wastes-money-in-medicine/"#8. Homeopathic Child Sedatives
The homeopathic "fears and nightmares" remedy No More Monsters turns childhood terror into future profits with imaginary medicine. That's the same plan as evil cartoon corporations, but with less connection to the laws of physics.
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#2. POTENTIZING ORGONE CHI ENERGY GENERATOR
Behold, the RADIONICS MACHINE HOMEOPATHY HEALING REMEDY VIBRATIONS ORGONE CHI ENERGY GENERATOR. Those capitals are their doing, not mine. I don't think I could add anything, real or imaginary, to the abilities this machine already claims.
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Oh, goodness. This one is funny. Nice work Cracked.
Wella
(1,827 posts)These actually do work. The author of the piece seems to be going by the packaging alone and has not tried the product. He is working from a prejudgment of homeopathy alone.
The Calms products, especially Calms Forte, are very nice sleep aids without the side effects of the PM products (Tylenol PM, Excedrin PM). I have used them myself, had had friends use them, and have given them to my pets for plane rides as an alternative to the heavy handed sedation, which often leaves them awake, immobile and miserable. The Calms Forte puts them gently to sleep and they remain asleep for most of the plane ride.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)They are placebos. Don't waste your money. Hyland's is a very unethical company. Please don't fall for its scam.
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2011/02/un-homeopathic-sleeping-tablets.html
More on homeopathy, in general:
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/an_intro_to_homeopathy
Wella
(1,827 posts)And I don't know you from Adam. I am much more inclined to trust my own experience than a guy on an internet message board. Show me you have some credentials and maybe we can talk.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Our own experience is a bad judge, in general. There are too many confounding factors, and the N is far too small.
Wella
(1,827 posts)ROFL!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Thanks for clarifying your position. That's really too bad, for many reasons, including your poor wallet, which will continue to be thinner for no good reason.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/homeopathy-as-nanoparticles/
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Albeit a field biology guy, but it's roughly the same biochemical skill set (since I work with large mammals) as human immunolgical science requires...
OP is right and you are wrong, and reasoning incorrectly about placebo effects.
Homeopathic remedies are pure imaginary nonsense. Pets are certainly subject to placebo effects. You're feeding your kids and your pets what is at best an inert substance from a biochemical perspective.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Wella
(1,827 posts)What were your qualifications again?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)You know what confirmation bias is? You should. Your closed mind is a bit much. Utilizing science based evidence will help everyone make better decisions. Ignoring such evidence will lead to worse outcomes much of the time.
In case you do open your mind, here is another good piece on the topic of placebo effects in regard to pets.
http://web.randi.org/swift/alternative-medicine-and-placebo-effects-for-pets
Wella
(1,827 posts)Since you're unwilling to answer this question and can only reply with ad hominem attacks I will take it that you have NO credentials of any kind, outside of your own prejudices.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)How do you fail to understand that evidence is what matters? My credentials are quite good when it comes to science, but I don't use them on the Internet, because they are meaningless. I could use them as a way to con people, much like homeopathic companies do. I'm not unethical, so I don't do that. Have you bothered to read the links? If so, and you find them lacking, what are they lacking?
Wella
(1,827 posts)That's what I thought.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)That's what I thought.
What are your credentials, then? Let's see you put up, and offer proof of them, to boot. This should be good!
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)posters is 'how science works'. I don't agree.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Nor do you understand how science works.
What are your credentials, and why do you not understand how science works?
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)they don't work would change her mind?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And since she did, why do you think it's ok for her to deny the science shown to her? And, on top of that, play more ugly logical fallacy BS?
Hmm.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)for her, so why would she pay attention to you?
Orrex
(63,260 posts)Why do you imagine falsehood from HuckleB but not from Wella?
At best, her claims are anecdote not backed by science, evidence, nor precdent.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)reason. Because the alternative is to imagine she 1) imagined it (hard to imagine quiet in a loud reality) or 2) she's lying (I see no reason for her to lie in this case.)
I don't imagine falsehood from huckleb; I just don't understand why s/he wants to beat this particular dead horse. The lady says it worked for her. Her claim is that the product worked for her. Backed by her personal experience. And for the claim that it worked for her, that's all that's needed.
Orrex
(63,260 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 3, 2015, 07:45 PM - Edit history (1)
2) Lying? Possibly. I have no reason to suspect willful deception from her, but proponents of homeopathy and other "alternative" "medicines" have a very long history (like, several millennia) of lying outright in order to give themselves or their snake oil credibility. Therefore, if she were lying, then she would be following a well-established tradition.
3) She could also simply be incorrect in her interpretation, and honestly I believe this the most likely. This is why we don't market actual medicines or medical procedures based on one person's interpretation of events.
Some people object to statements that contradict material fact as it pertains to self-medication, especially when others might read those false statements and be unduly influenced in their choice of medical options.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It helps us to understand things we perceive wrongly. It saves lives even!
Orrex
(63,260 posts)The most you can say is that you are selectively reporting anecdotes that support your preconception. In this thread you have demonstrated a hostility to the scientific method and to the basics of empirical evidence. In short, you are not a credible witness on behalf of these products.
You demand HuckleB's credentials but have failed to produce your own. Your anecdotal experience, even when consistent with those of your friends and your perceptions of your pets' behavior, does not trump scientific fact.
You are free to waste your money however you see fit, and you are free to insist that you aren't wasting your money. That doesn't mean that your interpretation is correct or that your experience is compelling, however.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Dogs generally sleep a lot when there isn't much going on & generally do a lot of "mirroring" of their human owners so they tend to sleep or rest when the humans are sleeping & resting.
I don't know whether or not it works but a "sleep aid" on a dog could be a correlation does not imply causation issue.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)That stuff really does help put you too sleep but helps you to definitely relax. My mom, diagnosed with high blood pressure was recommended chamomile tea by the doctor at a visit..
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)The evidence just isn't there for it as a substance.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Evidence is strong or stronger regarding its anti-inflammation or treating kidney ailments but there is evidence.
5.13 Sleep aid/sedation
Traditionally, chamomile preparations such as tea and essential oil aromatherapy have been used to treat insomnia and to induce sedation (calming effects). Chamomile is widely regarded as a mild tranquillizer and sleep-inducer. Sedative effects may be due to the flavonoid, apigenin that binds to benzodiazepine receptors in the brain (68). Studies in preclinical models have shown anticonvulsant and CNS depressant effects respectively. Clinical trials are notable for their absence, although ten cardiac patients are reported to have immediately fallen into a deep sleep lasting for 90 minutes after drinking chamomile tea (47). Chamomile extracts exhibit benzodiazepine-like hypnotic activity (69). In another study, inhalation of the vapor of chamomile oil reduced a stress-induced increase in plasma adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) levels. Diazepam, co-administered with the chamomile oil vapor, further reduced ACTH levels, while flumazenile, a BDZ antagonist blocked the effect of chamomile oil vapor on ACTH. According to Paladini et al. (70), the separation index (ratio between the maximal anxiolytic dose and the minimal sedative dose) for diazepam is 3 while for apigenin it is 10. Compounds, other than apigenin, present in extracts of chamomile can also bind BDZ and GABA receptors in the brain and might be responsible for some sedative effect; however, many of these compounds are as yet unidentified.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2995283/
With the poster, my mom, and myself -- though I generally stay awake even when tired I can attest to the relaxation, the only thing that ever knocks me out was Seroquel. Xanax did too though it wasn't prescribed when I took it which was the only time I ever took it. I used to take sleeping pills every night until I gave up on them. I still stayed up all night after taking a couple of those & even more still frustrated that I was still awake. I was also prescribed Hydroxyzine for anxiey/sleep that shit doesn't work. I can tell you the Chamomile is more effective than sleeping pills or the Hydroxyzine but maybe some more studies or an accurate idea of the dose & its effects but we don't appear to be alone in its claims & also a doctor recommended this to my mom diagnosed with "high blood pressure". Perhaps he should lose his job over quack advice? Though my mom doesn't have health insurance or has AHCCS but never uses it.
I'm just not sure drinking hot cocoa has the same effect given its "widely regarded" history but if I'm wrong, oh well. I don't believe it would have an placebo effect since I already lost faith in anything marketing as a "sleep aid" a long time ago. I realized my hypoglycemia diagnoses made sense of a lot things.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)As for the review presented, it doesn't appear to have very profound research to support. It links to very small, preliminary studies addressing subjective symptoms only. That's one of the hallmarks of the supplement industry. It's not impossible, but no one has put it to the test against placebo with a big N for specific symptoms. That in itself makes me wonder about its actual efficacy outside of the placebo effect.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Sugar is a crystal, right?
Doughnuts contain sugar, right?
So there you go. Coffee and doughnuts and the blahs go away.
Wella
(1,827 posts)Hence the endless cycle.
jmowreader
(50,580 posts)Check out http://www.hahnemannlabs.com/preparation.html.
These maniacs built a machine that will beat a vial against a rubber pad with exactly the same stroke length and intensity the arm of the company's founder would have.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Medicine had no scientific basis at all, and harmful cures like bloodletting and being dosed with mercury were common. Homeopathic remedies that did nothing whatsoever were good alternatives, given that they at least wouldn't hurt you.
There is no conceivable excuse for them now, however.
Response to eridani (Reply #23)
Post removed
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)It's a plant extract. Completely different. Homeopathy =/= alternative medicine. Which reminds me, you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.
Also, the FDA will not allow ANY claims of a cure unless there is SOLID peer-reviewed research proving such. If the company supplying said supplement doesn't want to pony up the cash to actual pay for research, then most likely their product is bullshit.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Herbal medicines there are held to the same strict regulatory regimen as regular pharmaceuticals.
http://www.motherearthliving.com/mother-earth-living/germanys-rich-herbal-traditions.aspx?PageId=2
The German governments counterpart to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is the German Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices. In 1976, Germany passed a law that required all medicines then on the market (including conventional drugs) to be reviewed by scientific committees. In 1978, they established a special committee on herbal remedies called the Commission E.
The Commission E is a federally appointed panel of leading experts on herbs and plant-based medicines. Members of the commission, who serve three-year terms, were proposed by various health professional associations and appointed by the Minister of Health. The initial task of the Commission E was to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of herbal remedies.
Today, the 24 members of the commission include physicians, pharmacists, pharmacologists, toxicologists, representatives of the pharmaceutical industry and lay persons, among others. About half of the members are university researchers who study the theoretical scientific basis of herbal medicines. The other half is composed mainly of health-care professionals with experience in prescribing and dispensing plant medicines. One of the perceived strengths of the commission is its ability to utilize a broad range of experience and expertise from numerous academic disciplines. According to longtime commission member Schilcher, the interdisciplinary nature of the Commission E is unique in the world.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)It may not be false based on the sub-thread and it kinda reads like an ad or spam but this is from a longtime poster. A spam ad from a longtime DUer would be a first but I think discussion is better than no discussion.
eridani
(51,907 posts)If the post count had been 2 or something, I could see it, but not a long-time poster.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Not the first time the poster did it either (with almost the same word for word post). The website is quite suspect looking as well. Looks almost like a pyramid scheme.
Siwsan
(26,315 posts)I've tried homeopathic remedies that worked, I've tried some that don't. I've tried "science based" medications that worked, I've tried some that don't. I will say that the sickest I've ever been in my life was when I followed a doctor's prescription regiment for a chronic bronchial condition. This was a repeat problem, sometimes several times a year. Then I stopped the medications and started using common sense old school remedies, and I've been infection free for decades. While I would never pressure anyone else into doing what I did, neither would I discourage them. There are positives and negatives to both choices.
What other people choose to use is none of my business and I wouldn't dream of disrespecting them by hitting them over the head with my choices. It's no way to convince anyone of anything but is more likely to make them dig their heels in even deeper.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Who needs regulation at all?
Say what?
Siwsan
(26,315 posts)I don't. It rarely changes anyone's mind.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)I find that tends to allow their unethical behavior to flourish, which makes not standing up against them unethical, too.
Siwsan
(26,315 posts)I could now repeat your statement, word for word.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)It supposedly will cure or ease the symptoms of tinnitus. My ears are still squealing every bit as loudly after several bottles. Save your money.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Just curious. Cheers!
IDemo
(16,926 posts)After having the sound of a 10 kHz squeal in each ear for many years, I was willing to give it a try.
Those need to go away, too. Pharma and supplement commercials are completely hideous.
Take care!