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CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:07 PM Feb 2015

“I have had a most rare vision”: Vincent Van Gogh’s The Starry Night

“It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day...” --Vincent, in a letter to his brother Theo

[IMG][/IMG]
The Starry Night. 1889. The Museum of Modern Art. New York.

I like the late John Updike’s term, “annunciatory apparitions,” that he finds in Van Gogh’s paintings. It’s a bit of a theological explication but oh, why not? Van Gogh can seem a throwback to himself as the (failed) evangelist preacher, with a religious theme in The Starry Night. This is the viewpoint from Legomenon, an online literary journal that explores the meaning of art. The working theory here has Van Gogh comparing himself to the Old Testament’s Joseph in this passage

“Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brother, saying, ‘Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon and the eleven stars bowed down to me.’ ” Genesis 37.9

In the Bible story, Joseph is a dreamer and an outcast who was thrown in a pit, sold into slavery and endured years of imprisonment (as Van Gogh was held in an asylum in Saint-Remy, which is where he created this masterpiece). Joseph’s eleven brothers gave him no acceptance or respect. The artist, feeling rejected by the art critics of his day, may be saying “you disrespect me now but someday I will get the recognition I deserve.” And, of course, the painting has eleven stars and a crescent moon ablaze in its sky.

The town seems mostly asleep, unaware of this roiling scene. The people are in their snug, tidy world, not conscious of the torment of Vincent, oblivious to his suffering in their very midst.

detail of town
[IMG][/IMG]

But is Van Gogh present here? According to this theory, he is, in the image of the cypress tree. It writhes upward, a darkling force challenging the fireballs in the sky above. The cypress tree was something of an obsession with the artist and he painted several landscapes that prominently included them. Ominously, it has historically been associated with cemeteries and the after life.

Before her suicide, Anne Sexton in a terrifyingly prescient poem contemplating The Starry Night wrote

Oh starry starry night! This is how
I want to die:

into that rushing beast of the night,
sucked up by that great dragon, to split
from my life with no flag,
no belly,
no cry.


This starry night is tense, erratic, frenzied. We can, however, look to his other famous night sky painting, Starry Night over the Rhone, for more of a beneficence.

[IMG][/IMG]

1888. Musee d’Orsay, Paris

The goodness and tenderness in this work was completely intended. Van Gogh said, “I want to say something consoling as music does...I want to paint men and women with a touch of the eternal, whose symbol was once the halo which we try to convey by the very radiance and vibrancy of the coloring.” The couple is walking arm in arm in the gas lamps refraction from the town’s houses on the gently moving river and the canopy of a star filled sky. The thick impasto of sky from his loaded brush is more pronounced than in The Starry Night, but the effect here is calming and reassuring to the viewer. He has painted the stars to appear as night flowers, as we see in this beautiful detail

[IMG][/IMG]

Art historian Simon Schama describes the couple “canoodling on the threshold of infinity...what we see is what they feel.” Sadly, for Van Gogh this feeling is what he would long for all of his life but could never have. The artist’s epilepsy coupled with bipolar disorder robbed him of his ability to have a life with a wife and family, which his brother Theo had. The birth of Theo’s little boy was joyful, but also crushing to Vincent’s already fragile mental state.

The New Yorker’s Peter Schjeldahl, reviewing the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s exhibit of all seventeen of the gallery’s Van Gogh works last year observed

“...What I had glimpsed in him at first turned out to be lying in wait for me. It was the value of joy, irrespective of happiness, and certainly, of intellectual pride. All good art teaches some variant of that consoling and humbling truth, which anyone might recognize.”

Twenty-eight years before Vincent painted The Starry Night a poet sitting at her window in Amherst, Massachusetts looked out upon her small world as she struggled with the storms within her brain and wrote what Vincent would eventually paint

As all the Heavens were a Bell,
And Being, but an Ear,
And I, and Silence, some strange Race
Wrecked, solitary, here–

NOTE: The quote in the title is not Van Gogh’s. Extra credit to those of you who know the provenance of the title of this post without Googling. Another hint: “That you have but slumbered here, / While these visions did appear.”




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“I have had a most rare vision”: Vincent Van Gogh’s The Starry Night (Original Post) CTyankee Feb 2015 OP
With credit to the Bard of Avon . . . enlightenment Feb 2015 #1
Oh, so you know the play? CTyankee Feb 2015 #2
Without googling, indeed. enlightenment Feb 2015 #3
so I guess you know the poet from Amherst... CTyankee Feb 2015 #5
Okay - I'm guessing here. enlightenment Feb 2015 #14
Indeedy so! I love her! CTyankee Feb 2015 #15
Yay! enlightenment Feb 2015 #24
Yeah, Dickinson is odd. But if any American poet would get this painting, it would CTyankee Feb 2015 #28
Poetry suggestions? F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #109
I like Wallace Stevens, altho he can be a bit difficult. Yeats is fine, too. CTyankee Feb 2015 #111
If you're just enlightenment Feb 2015 #112
I think the quote is from William Shakespeare. stage left Feb 2015 #4
Great play. Glad you like the painting. CTyankee Feb 2015 #6
Many of the mentally ill are exceptionally intelligent and talented. stage left Feb 2015 #54
but they often should not be in managerial positions...hell on earth depending on CTyankee Feb 2015 #57
Yes stage left Feb 2015 #68
I secured another job and left, not knowing that that manager had bipolar disorder. CTyankee Feb 2015 #70
It really depends on the person AndreaCG Feb 2015 #102
It does depend on the person. stage left Feb 2015 #106
I'm always gobsmacked by the chaotic order of Van Gogh. blogslut Feb 2015 #7
You are so right. He had so much to say... CTyankee Feb 2015 #29
Just spent a month with Vincent via the Naifeh/White Smith bio BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #8
Thanks. I got that book from the library. Geez, 900 pages, really? CTyankee Feb 2015 #22
Hey, you started it BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #56
good for you for getting so far into the bio. I didn't have the courage... CTyankee Feb 2015 #59
Since you cited Schama, he and the Beeb did this masterful documentary on Van Gogh BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #69
*** Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #9
I sure don't need to say how I feel about "Starry Night"! nirvana555 Feb 2015 #96
N/T skamaria Feb 2015 #113
A repost packman Feb 2015 #10
very cool - thanks ! Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2015 #31
OMG it's beautiful - I love it. IcyPeas Feb 2015 #73
Let's not forget that he also helped The Doctor capture the Krafayis progressoid Feb 2015 #11
Oh, c'mon progressoid. Now you're just... pinboy3niner Feb 2015 #97
I don't think The Doctor is a fan of .... progressoid Feb 2015 #98
Now that's surreal, lol! pinboy3niner Feb 2015 #101
....who? Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #99
First base pinboy3niner Feb 2015 #100
Those last lines from THAT play, pangaia Feb 2015 #12
OH YANK!!! elleng Feb 2015 #13
SO glad you liked it! CTyankee Feb 2015 #17
Oh, I'm glad you like it ellen! I'm so happy to post it...it's been a pleasure... CTyankee Feb 2015 #23
Great work as usual, elleng Feb 2015 #25
thank you ellen! I love doing these, tho...it's my fun... CTyankee Feb 2015 #53
The unexpected math behind Van Gogh's "Starry Night" RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #16
wonderful! What a great explanation of the artist's disability/ability! CTyankee Feb 2015 #18
Vincent van Gogh and Turbulence mckara Feb 2015 #19
What genius he had and such pain. Brother Theo declined after Vincent's death. Both died appalachiablue Feb 2015 #20
his biographers believe that both (and their sister wilhemina) also sufferd from it. CTyankee Feb 2015 #35
You have me singing this malaise Feb 2015 #21
One of my favorite of favorites. Richard D Feb 2015 #26
"tears of joy" yes! That happened to me once...a van gogh wheat field with crows... CTyankee Feb 2015 #33
I had that beauty overload happen after a tour through the Frank Lloyd Wright house BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2015 #104
This message was self-deleted by its author Bosonic Feb 2015 #27
i may be wrong here. not sure if i learned this is art school, or just mopinko Feb 2015 #30
i'm a bit obsessed with his palette knife in the second night sky. He must have been CTyankee Feb 2015 #38
hue variation. mopinko Feb 2015 #40
hmm. I think it makes some sense... CTyankee Feb 2015 #42
Thanks CTY. I have always been obsessed with him. As for light - I did Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2015 #32
well, all artists are interested in capturing the light. But they just strive to do it in CTyankee Feb 2015 #34
Yes...not what I was referring to - I look it up. :>) Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2015 #80
chiaroscuro. mopinko Feb 2015 #41
It is hard for me to see chiarascuro in this work. Because chiarascuro depened on CTyankee Feb 2015 #44
meant it as a reference mopinko Feb 2015 #46
no, light and shadow were always important but I see how gaslight can influence that. CTyankee Feb 2015 #50
wow never knew you Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2015 #122
sorry to sound so snippy...I am far from expert and am an amateur in art history CTyankee Feb 2015 #123
Someone made this video years ago Generic Other Feb 2015 #36
that is lovely. thank you... CTyankee Feb 2015 #37
It's actually just called astigmatism. alphafemale Feb 2015 #39
In 125 Years, Millions Of People Have Looked At This Painting. No One Really Saw It Until Now. Omaha Steve Feb 2015 #43
Interesting! Thank you Omaha Steve! CTyankee Feb 2015 #47
Check out his book of letters to his brother. Definately not a "mad" anything. Brilliant writer too. harun Feb 2015 #67
He was an excellent writer. Really expressive of himself, his life and his art... CTyankee Feb 2015 #81
Such beauty. Delphinus Feb 2015 #45
Nice to see you visit here. I do art stuff here at DU every couple of weeks or so... CTyankee Feb 2015 #48
I thought Benedict Cumberbatch's - Van Gogh: Painted With Words was very good, and ND-Dem Feb 2015 #49
Thank you for this! CTyankee Feb 2015 #51
I'm so grateful, appreciative, loving - for THEO n/t UTUSN Feb 2015 #52
and poor Theo had his own psychological problems...he lived only some six months CTyankee Feb 2015 #55
"accident"?!1 Really?!1 n/t UTUSN Feb 2015 #60
It is now thought that the problem with the gun was an accident.....really... CTyankee Feb 2015 #62
The sad thing is edhopper Feb 2015 #58
Terrible luck, that... CTyankee Feb 2015 #61
I think he was too alone edhopper Feb 2015 #82
I wonder, tho, if he didn't want to be alone...people with bipolar disorder often cannot CTyankee Feb 2015 #84
All true. edhopper Feb 2015 #87
I do think some of his visions were as a result of his disordered mind, tho. CTyankee Feb 2015 #88
That's true edhopper Feb 2015 #90
I had a friend wonder awoke_in_2003 Feb 2016 #125
Pictures of Vincent's masterpieces don't due them justice workinclasszero Feb 2015 #63
so true. I used to carry a little magnifying glass into museums but I was stopped so CTyankee Feb 2015 #65
Yes they have to be seen workinclasszero Feb 2015 #71
when I went to the Met as a teen with my aunt- she was appalled that Van Gough "wasted.... bettyellen Feb 2015 #108
Thanks, I would love that! CTyankee Feb 2015 #110
Cool...drinks around Grand Central? I would say Raines Library is the place! bettyellen Feb 2015 #118
OK, great! I will research what's going on where artwise in NYC in the meantime. CTyankee Feb 2015 #119
We can hope! Gosh it has been years... bettyellen Feb 2015 #121
One of my all time life favorite experiences... 3catwoman3 Feb 2015 #64
Yes! That was the place of my meltdown...I started crying in front of one of his CTyankee Feb 2015 #66
I totally get the same feelings seeing his works workinclasszero Feb 2015 #74
I think in my case it was because I had been to Delft and other towns where the great CTyankee Feb 2015 #76
Wow I wish I could go to that museum workinclasszero Feb 2015 #72
I've been going to museums in Europe now for almost a decade just to see the CTyankee Feb 2015 #75
I'm glad that some folks get to see the creative work of humanity workinclasszero Feb 2015 #77
I always say that art always saves you. CTyankee Feb 2015 #79
When I was a child every public school workinclasszero Feb 2015 #83
god, yes...how can we get art into the lives of deprived children? CTyankee Feb 2015 #85
I went there too! They are so different in the flesh... sibelian Feb 2015 #107
I read the book Lust for Life.... IcyPeas Feb 2015 #78
I must read that book...thanks for mentioning it to me... CTyankee Feb 2015 #86
Huge celebration of Vincent Van Gogh in 2015 workinclasszero Feb 2015 #89
Bookmarked for FOREVER Mira Feb 2015 #91
Another gorgeous essay. I have loved Van Gogh from the first... Hekate Feb 2015 #92
Thanks for the sweet complment! I love doing the research and always have a pile of CTyankee Feb 2015 #105
There's an App for that.... Turbineguy Feb 2015 #93
Thank you for that! Hekate Feb 2015 #94
thank you for this. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2015 #95
My own personal Van Gogh epiphany came with the Church at Auvers RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #103
The Musee D'Orsay is a blessing... CTyankee Feb 2015 #120
WUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNderful!!! calimary Feb 2015 #114
art is my therapy too. CTyankee Feb 2015 #116
Hah! I know how that is! calimary Feb 2015 #117
No photograph can ever do Van Gogh's work justice. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #115
Somewhat off-track but still interesting. Van Gogh understood the human optic system. erronis Sep 2015 #124
Puck. :>) pangaia Feb 2016 #126
I was hoping to get to MoMA last April but illness of my art buddy and my own health issues CTyankee Feb 2016 #127
You know, I just rrealized this mpost was from last year. pangaia Feb 2016 #128
getting there, but slowly and with setbacks. I have to talk to my neuro doc about CTyankee Feb 2016 #129

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
1. With credit to the Bard of Avon . . .
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:12 PM
Feb 2015

do I get the gold star?

Interesting post, CT - I enjoyed reading it.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
2. Oh, so you know the play?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:14 PM
Feb 2015

that's impressive, and without Googling I presume.

Your gold star is in the mail...

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
24. Yay!
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:56 PM
Feb 2015

I really wasn't sure - I'm woefully inadequate on the American poets, but her work has a certain metre (? correct term?) and that rang a bell in my head.

Clearly, I need to add more Dickinson to my reading rota.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
28. Yeah, Dickinson is odd. But if any American poet would get this painting, it would
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:10 PM
Feb 2015

be Dickinson. Some of her poetry is as explosive as Starry Night...

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
109. Poetry suggestions?
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 12:14 PM
Feb 2015

I would love some recommendations. I only first enjoyed reading poetry for the first time this last year, but now I absolutely love it, especially read aloud. I don't read enough, though, so any of your favorites you'd suggest?

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
111. I like Wallace Stevens, altho he can be a bit difficult. Yeats is fine, too.
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 01:27 PM
Feb 2015

You might want to check out community college courses in poetry. My cc is free for seniors over the age of 62 (I had to buy the text book however). I took Italian 101 and Italian 102 at my cc. The text was $100 but was used for both courses.

In my area there are Learning in Retirement courses for seniors. I taught one on love poetry entitled "Bright Star and Wild Darling." It was a 4 week seminar. Here is what I offered:

The Poetry of Love


LOVE'S PASSION

There is some kiss we want with our whole lives -- Rumi
Don't go far off, not even for a day -- Neruda

I knew a woman, lovely in her bones -- Roethke
When Sue wears red -- Langston Hughes

Bright Star! Would I Were Steadfast as thou Art -- Keats
I Carry Your Heart with Me -- e.e. cummings

There's a man -- Sappho
I am the Rose of Sharon -- attributed to King Solomon

Busy Old Fool, Unruly Sun -- Donne


ENDURING LOVE

My monkey-wrench man is my sweet patootie -- Margaret Walker
Touch Me -- Kunitz

Madonna of the Evening Flowers -- Amy Lowell
Cloths of Heaven -- Yeats

O, never say that I was false of heart - Shakespeare (sonnet 109)
Sonnet from "The Amoretti" (little love poems) TBD - Spenser

LOSS AND REMEMBRANCE

Funeral Blues -- Auden
Reluctance -- Frost

I slept in the past -- Izumi Shikibu
What lips my lips have kissed -- Millay

RENUNCIATION

The soul selects her own society -- Dickinson
That Will to Divest -- Kay Ryan

Circe's Power -- Gluck



enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
112. If you're just
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 01:46 PM
Feb 2015

getting started (and bravo for reading aloud - poetry is an oral form and should always be read aloud when possible), I'd suggest an anthology.

Poetry has so much variety - there's something to appeal to every taste. My tastes are eclectic; some days I want the purity of more classical forms and some days I enjoy the word chase of modern free verse - admittedly not often for the latter.

My first anthology was an old edition of The Oxford Book of English Verse - the 1919 version. My grandmother; who recited poetry to us kids almost from the point we were hatched; gave it to me when I was about twelve or thirteen. It is a true anthology - ranging from medieval to modern (1919 at that point), with a selection as broad as they could make it without creating a book too heavy to lift. An excellent starting point and it did inform my tastes as an adult.

My favorite poem is probably this ditty by Leigh Hunt - because it requires nothing from me but a smile. Try reading it out loud and you'll find yourself grinning, too.

Jenny kiss’d me when we met,
Jumping from the chair she sat in;
Time, you thief, who love to get
Sweets into your list, put that in!
Say I’m weary, say I’m sad,
Say that health and wealth have miss’d me,
Say I’m growing old, but add,
Jenny kiss’d me.

--- Leigh Hunt

stage left

(2,934 posts)
4. I think the quote is from William Shakespeare.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:25 PM
Feb 2015

A Midsummer Night's Dream. I love Starry Night. Thanks for posting.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
6. Great play. Glad you like the painting.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:38 PM
Feb 2015

He wasn't too much loved in his lifetime. In doing the research for this I grew to like the guy because I have talented friends who suffer from bipolar disorder and I worry about them. And I once worked at an organization where my boss had the same disability. It was one of the worst work experiences of my life...I never knew where she'd be emotionally day to day...

stage left

(2,934 posts)
54. Many of the mentally ill are exceptionally intelligent and talented.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:36 PM
Feb 2015

So much beauty there in spite of so much pain.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
57. but they often should not be in managerial positions...hell on earth depending on
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:40 PM
Feb 2015

how they feel that day...it can wreck the workers striving under them...it's bad...

stage left

(2,934 posts)
68. Yes
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:03 PM
Feb 2015

I know it can be, and a Bipolar person probably shouldn't be a manager. I was really thinking about Van Gogh and not contradicting you in your assessment of your manager. I'm sorry it sounded that way. My mother had schizo-affective disorder which is a combo of Schizophrenic symptoms and Bipolar ones. My sister and I never knew what was okay for us to do and say, because it varied from day.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
70. I secured another job and left, not knowing that that manager had bipolar disorder.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:07 PM
Feb 2015

It wasn't until later that I go that information and from a good source. My former manager had also changed jobs and I think it was because she got a less than great review from the CEO of her performance, having lost a significant number of staff (including me) under her supervision.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
102. It really depends on the person
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 07:25 AM
Feb 2015

I'm bipolar II and am rarely short tempered, or no more than your average New Yorker and/or stand up comic. I Know a pair of bipolar twins in their early 20s and one is quite short tempered while the other isn't (curiously, the one who isn't had a horrible temper as a child, and currently takes no medication but relies on behavior modification techniques). I think bipolar I people tend to have the worse mood swings as they get full blown mania as opposed to hypomania which is less extreme.

stage left

(2,934 posts)
106. It does depend on the person.
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 11:37 AM
Feb 2015

Everyone is different. It also makes a huge difference if the person is getting proper medication and therapy for their illness. My mother was undiagnosed and untreated for many years. In the time frame where she was treated she did much better.

Right now my daughter is suffering through a bout of Major Depression. Her original diagnosis was also bipolar II, but just lately it was determined she doesn't have enough up moods or irritable moods to even be hypomanic. Or so the docs think. So it is probably chronic depression with a topping of major depression.

We are both going to support groups sponsored by NAMI, the National Alliance for Mental Illness. I reccomend NAMI to anyone looking for help or information.

(I can be pretty short tempered myself sometimes. )

blogslut

(37,955 posts)
7. I'm always gobsmacked by the chaotic order of Van Gogh.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:10 PM
Feb 2015

Up close, the frenzy of his strokes is frightening. A few feet away you understand the jittery sense of it. From a distance there is serenity and joy and color, so much color.

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
8. Just spent a month with Vincent via the Naifeh/White Smith bio
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:29 PM
Feb 2015

900 pages...most of them pretty thrilling actually. Vincent was exhausting and exhaustive. The absence and/or inability of anyone other than his brother, who kept his distance, to form an enduring relationship with him was heartbreaking at times. As if by way of compensation, he never shined more than when others were suffering; coal miners in the north of France where he preached or his mother when she broke her hip. In fact, that's when he started drawing landscapes (rather than people), so she could see the outside world. His famous pollard branches sketch, which was probably the first true indication of his greatness, was done then.

It is such an improbable story; he didn't even turn to art until he was 27. Ten almost always frustrating and rejection-filled years later, he was gone. No one praised him critically until January of 1890 and, by the end of July, he was dead.

Starry Night is seen by many as the birth of abstract painting; it was obviously way ahead of its time. Theo saw it and said, cut that out, get back to realism because I need to sell this stuff! Of course, it would become his most famous and best loved work.

RIP Vincent and Theo. It's the best story ever. Really.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
22. Thanks. I got that book from the library. Geez, 900 pages, really?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:50 PM
Feb 2015

Are you an art historian? I wonder because I so dabble in this and I feel sometimes that I should go back and get an art history Master's degree so I can have a pedigree in art in addition to my B.A. in Fine Arts and my Masters in Liberal Studies. But then my husband gives me "the look" and I stop talking about it.

I love and appreciate your comments here! How wonderful! We can get a conversation here at DU on fine art!

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
56. Hey, you started it
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:40 PM
Feb 2015


It's actually 867 plus notes on Vincent's death, which they claim was a murder by a teenager who had been harassing him. Controversial, but plausible. Enjoy the book, and thank you for yet another thread-dose of culture.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
59. good for you for getting so far into the bio. I didn't have the courage...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:45 PM
Feb 2015

I'll be back. I've got a few more art dose threads of culture that are cooking in my brain. My project now is to take a well known classic work of art and discuss it, not something obscure that folks here don't know and don't find very interesting.

I like the classics because everyone has a different take on them. I find that fascinating.

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
69. Since you cited Schama, he and the Beeb did this masterful documentary on Van Gogh
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:06 PM
Feb 2015

A little less of a commitment than the book, but powerful nonetheless:



 

packman

(16,296 posts)
10. A repost
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:39 PM
Feb 2015

I posted this several weeks back. If you want to experience a mind-trip, go to the site below-stare at the spinning circles then look at Van Gogh's Starry Night (on same page). Quite an illusion.


http://twentytwowords.com/trippy-optical-illusion-makes-van-goghs-starry-night-undulate/

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
12. Those last lines from THAT play,
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:48 PM
Feb 2015

are right near the top of my favorite of all time....
The very end of Der Rosenkavalier is..somewhat, just a little similar...outwardly, somewhat similar....
But...

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
16. The unexpected math behind Van Gogh's "Starry Night"
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:31 PM
Feb 2015

I know this has been posted before, but it seemed on point.

appalachiablue

(41,047 posts)
20. What genius he had and such pain. Brother Theo declined after Vincent's death. Both died
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:44 PM
Feb 2015

about 6 months apart, only in their 30s. The Dutch great grandson of Theo, also named Theo Van Gogh d. 2004 from an attack over his controversial journalistic work.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
35. his biographers believe that both (and their sister wilhemina) also sufferd from it.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:40 PM
Feb 2015

How awful for them...

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
33. "tears of joy" yes! That happened to me once...a van gogh wheat field with crows...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:24 PM
Feb 2015

the tears just started to come...it was a meltdown in the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. I was on overload on an art intensive in the Netherlands...I had just come from some museums in Delft and had seen Vermeer's "Little House" and I went to the Van Gogh Museum a little later and there was this Van Gogh with crows in wheat fields. I was undone...

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
104. I had that beauty overload happen after a tour through the Frank Lloyd Wright house
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 09:04 AM
Feb 2015

Here in Rochester. Sobbing as we stood at the sidewalk afterwards. It felt good.

I'm saving to read your OP later. Not awake yet.

Response to CTyankee (Original post)

mopinko

(69,804 posts)
30. i may be wrong here. not sure if i learned this is art school, or just
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:13 PM
Feb 2015

had this impression myself, but i believe he used a palette knife more than a brush. the second detail, in particular, was def done w a knife.

it was a crazy thing to do back in the day when painters had to grind their own pigments. this meant hours and hours of grinding labor to paint like that. if you look at monet's paintings, he is amaaazingly stingy w the paint, some spots barely touched.
always thought this was real proof that he was not your average brain.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
38. i'm a bit obsessed with his palette knife in the second night sky. He must have been
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:50 PM
Feb 2015

more obsessed as he went along...it seems excessive in the second one (altho I think he did them about the same time but not sure). But why is one more violent and one more calm?

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
32. Thanks CTY. I have always been obsessed with him. As for light - I did
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:22 PM
Feb 2015

learn once that artists of the time were particularly interested in capturing the light in the night. Do I remember correctly - it had never been done in art before then.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
34. well, all artists are interested in capturing the light. But they just strive to do it in
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:30 PM
Feb 2015

different ways. Light is intrinsic to what they do.

mopinko

(69,804 posts)
41. chiaroscuro.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:59 PM
Feb 2015

no, it was around for a long time. for a studio painter of the time, it was everything. we take light for granted, but it was a big thing before electricity, or even gas light.
i am sure that the introduction of gas lighting sparked a lot of imagination.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
44. It is hard for me to see chiarascuro in this work. Because chiarascuro depened on
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:09 PM
Feb 2015

on the contrast between light and shadow dramatically, which is not what you see here. But you have a great point about gas lighting's effect on painting....

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
50. no, light and shadow were always important but I see how gaslight can influence that.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:31 PM
Feb 2015

esp. in the second starry night painting I showed by van gogh.

chiaroscuro deepened into tenebrism and was extremely important in Spanish painters after the Renaissance. Fascinating stuff, actually...

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
123. sorry to sound so snippy...I am far from expert and am an amateur in art history
Sun Feb 15, 2015, 02:52 AM
Feb 2015

I try to learn from those who do know more than I do, which is why I research and read so much on art. It's my hobby and my joy. But I don't want to fall into being an annoying know it all and I apologize if I have done so, Laura. I dunno, maybe the snow has gotten to me...

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
39. It's actually just called astigmatism.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:53 PM
Feb 2015

It was not correctable at that time

Anyone with astigmatism recognizes the images immediately.

On edit.

He did it beautifully.

Omaha Steve

(99,059 posts)
43. In 125 Years, Millions Of People Have Looked At This Painting. No One Really Saw It Until Now.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:05 PM
Feb 2015

http://www.upworthy.com/in-125-years-millions-of-people-have-looked-at-this-painting-no-one-really-saw-it-until-now?c=upw1

I'm not easily impressed, OK?

I know Van Gogh was a genius. If the point of this were "Van Gogh was a mad genius," I would not be sharing this with you.

But I found this and I thought, "Oh, what a vaguely interesting thing." And then I got to the part about the Hubble Space Telescope, and, let me tell you: Mind. Blown.

We've got the set up here, but you have to watch the video for the full effect. It's all the way at the bottom.

FULL great story, video, and more at link.

K&R!

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
47. Interesting! Thank you Omaha Steve!
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:23 PM
Feb 2015

No, my point is not that Van Gogh was a mad genius. I don't know if medical science knows today what his genius actually was. Or anyone for that matter.

I just concern myself with what he is saying to me in his works. Simple as that. No biggie. No worries...

Relax. Life is good...

harun

(11,348 posts)
67. Check out his book of letters to his brother. Definately not a "mad" anything. Brilliant writer too.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:00 PM
Feb 2015

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
81. He was an excellent writer. Really expressive of himself, his life and his art...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:29 PM
Feb 2015

good to have those letters for reference, isn't it?

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
48. Nice to see you visit here. I do art stuff here at DU every couple of weeks or so...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:25 PM
Feb 2015

hope you can stop by for my next post...thanks again!

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
55. and poor Theo had his own psychological problems...he lived only some six months
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:38 PM
Feb 2015

after Vincent's accident. And
Wilhemina, the sister, also died young. There was a health issue with that family.


CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
62. It is now thought that the problem with the gun was an accident.....really...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:48 PM
Feb 2015

I did not think this one up...really...

edhopper

(33,182 posts)
58. The sad thing is
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:44 PM
Feb 2015

His fame started spreading soon after he died and within a decade or so his work was appreciated and valued.
If he had lived he would have found the success he so wanted.

edhopper

(33,182 posts)
82. I think he was too alone
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:29 PM
Feb 2015

With no one to get him through the despair.
If he only hung on, think of where his art could have gone.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
84. I wonder, tho, if he didn't want to be alone...people with bipolar disorder often cannot
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:32 PM
Feb 2015

co-exist with others. Also, his siblings seemed to have he same disorder. So I guess it was a trait they all had. Theo didn't last more than a few years after him and his sister also died soon after. It was a sad situation for that family...

edhopper

(33,182 posts)
87. All true.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:38 PM
Feb 2015

I hate when people think his art had something to do with. mental troubles.
He was great despite them. The myth of the tortured artist, unappreciated in his time.
When he would have been appreciated in his life, like Monet, Cezanne or Picasso, if he had lived.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
88. I do think some of his visions were as a result of his disordered mind, tho.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:43 PM
Feb 2015

He painted what he saw. And I do believe he painted because he had to. It wasn't a choice.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
125. I had a friend wonder
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:14 PM
Feb 2016

say "just imagine what Jimi Hendrix would have done if not for the LSD". I am of the opinion that he sounded like he did because of the LSD.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
63. Pictures of Vincent's masterpieces don't due them justice
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:53 PM
Feb 2015

If its possible see an actual painting in a museum. He used so much paint on the canvas it gives kind of a 3d image.

The brushstrokes through the paint have to be seen with your eyes. It made me love Van Gogh even more.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
65. so true. I used to carry a little magnifying glass into museums but I was stopped so
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:56 PM
Feb 2015

many times by museum guards I just didn't do it any more.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
71. Yes they have to be seen
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:08 PM
Feb 2015

in person to get the full effect. Vincent was an artistic giant. I love his paintings so much!

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
108. when I went to the Met as a teen with my aunt- she was appalled that Van Gough "wasted....
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 12:06 PM
Feb 2015

so much paint"- I think it was the vase of sunflowers. My aunt was just cringing and looking at it from the side to calculate how much paint he had actually "wasted". And then she actually took her fingernail to it- not kidding. I gasped! And both feared and hoped the guard would see and stop or even arrest her. LOL, she is a total sociopath, and in retrospect, I totally understand her aversion to Van Gough. She lives to disrespect and exploit others, has no interest in anyone else's interior life.

Thanks for another wonderful thread! You PM me if you'd like to catch a show in NYC some time. I would love that.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
110. Thanks, I would love that!
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 01:06 PM
Feb 2015

Esp. there's a cool exhibition at MoMA (or as Noo Yawkers call it "the Modern&quot . I could just jump in a cab at Grand Central. Or we could meet at the Oyster Bar in Grand Central (I hope it is still there!). Are you in NYC?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
118. Cool...drinks around Grand Central? I would say Raines Library is the place!
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 03:53 PM
Feb 2015

I am very close by to Manhattan, it's not big deal. I'm in a crunch time for work for another week, then things should be a lot more flexible during weekdays. But weekends can work for me too! We should invite La Lioness Pryanka, have not seen her in RL in a few years. She is the coolest.

PM me and we will talk next week!!

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
119. OK, great! I will research what's going on where artwise in NYC in the meantime.
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 07:50 PM
Feb 2015

I'd love to meet La Lioness herself! Zowee!

I'll PM you with what I find!

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
121. We can hope! Gosh it has been years...
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 09:25 PM
Feb 2015

Met her and Swag the same day after a protest. Fun people. I do get to see Swag every 3-4 years.

3catwoman3

(23,812 posts)
64. One of my all time life favorite experiences...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:55 PM
Feb 2015

...is going to the Van Gogh museum during a much-too-short stay in Amsterdam in 1974. The colors are so vivid and the strokes so thick on some of the works that the paint looked as if it had just been completed yesterday and were still drying. Truly breathtaking.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
66. Yes! That was the place of my meltdown...I started crying in front of one of his
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:58 PM
Feb 2015

works in a field with a bird. It was just too much. I cannot describe the moment...

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
74. I totally get the same feelings seeing his works
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:12 PM
Feb 2015

He put this heart and soul on those canvases and you can feel the genius and the madness and the sorrow.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
76. I think in my case it was because I had been to Delft and other towns where the great
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:15 PM
Feb 2015

artists of the Golden Age of Dutch artists had painted and where they were. So I had just seen Vermeers and was a bit intoxicated...Girl with Pearl Earring and View of Delft in the Mauritshaus in the Hague...jeez...

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
72. Wow I wish I could go to that museum
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:10 PM
Feb 2015

It must be breathtaking to see all those masterworks in one place.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
75. I've been going to museums in Europe now for almost a decade just to see the
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:12 PM
Feb 2015

masterpieces. It's been a life's work for me in retirement. I'm just so lucky I have had the money to do it.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
77. I'm glad that some folks get to see the creative work of humanity
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:16 PM
Feb 2015

Most of us see only the worst things. Art is a reminder that life doesn't have to be that way.

We can rise out of the mud if we try.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
79. I always say that art always saves you.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:19 PM
Feb 2015

You don't have to be right there in front of it but when you are it's a feeling of gratitude for the experience...a feeling that "I'm here, seeing this as it was done by the artist all those years ago" and I feel the age of the work and the history and the whole thing just crashes in on me. My god, I think, I'm here seeing this...

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
83. When I was a child every public school
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:31 PM
Feb 2015

had some kind of art class. Now thats the first thing that gets axed.

We will raise generations of kids that will never know who Michelangelo or Vincent Van Gogh were, etc.

Its terrible and will leave a more brutish world to survive in.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
85. god, yes...how can we get art into the lives of deprived children?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:35 PM
Feb 2015

Our more affluent children have it aplenty but the kids who are poor are left out. It makes me abject.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
107. I went there too! They are so different in the flesh...
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 11:47 AM
Feb 2015

... as if fallen into the world from a dream.

IcyPeas

(21,737 posts)
78. I read the book Lust for Life....
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:17 PM
Feb 2015

if I am remembering correctly, he said in one of his letters to Theo "I have to go, I feel an abstraction coming on."

That is one of the books that made me cry.

Mira

(22,378 posts)
91. Bookmarked for FOREVER
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 12:21 AM
Feb 2015

Thank you.
I got to see the real "starry night" at MoMA a month ago.

edited to add this link in case no-one else has done so



Hekate

(90,189 posts)
92. Another gorgeous essay. I have loved Van Gogh from the first...
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 12:49 AM
Feb 2015

My mom used to have this stack of slim art books with full color reproductions and encouraged us kids to look at them all. Even as a child I loved the swirls, intensity, and depth of color of this artist.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
105. Thanks for the sweet complment! I love doing the research and always have a pile of
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 10:42 AM
Feb 2015

books from my library and the other libraries around. And so much is online. I'm working on several ideas for further essays here. I'm snowbound a lot and can do a lot of pondering, reading and writing. In a couple of weeks I'll have another...

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
103. My own personal Van Gogh epiphany came with the Church at Auvers
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 07:59 AM
Feb 2015


Up to that point, I naively believed that museums were sort of unnecessary, that if I wanted to enjoy paintings, a coffee table book would suffice. Then I turned the corner in a salle at the Musée D'Orsay and there it was. I'd seen photographs of that particular painting many times before, but to see it right there in front of me was a revelation. It was like an entirely different work of art. No picture I've ever found in a book or online will ever do justice to the beauty and the brilliance of the blue I saw that day.

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
120. The Musee D'Orsay is a blessing...
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 07:56 PM
Feb 2015

I see the blue in this painting and can only imagine it in real life...it's stunning enough in reproduction online! All that blue and...then, that red orange roof section! OMG...

calimary

(80,693 posts)
114. WUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNderful!!!
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 02:30 PM
Feb 2015

This has soothed my inner savage beast this morning. Had a small meltdown last night in frustration and woke up feeling sour about a whole boatload of things. THIS offered a MOST welcome respite! EXACTLY when I needed one!

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
116. art is my therapy too.
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 02:42 PM
Feb 2015

So when I feel as you were feeling I very deliberately go to one of my art books or online to look up a particular artist...then I get carried away and find myself lost in art for long, intense sessions.

I'm a little frustrated by the weather and trying to figure out how to cope. So I've been researching on several artists and particular works that I have loved and been fascinated by. Sometimes I find a particular gesture or use of color so intensely riveting I can't stop looking at it...I have on a few occasions fallen asleep at my keyboard (if it is late at night and I'm tired)...

calimary

(80,693 posts)
117. Hah! I know how that is!
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 03:05 PM
Feb 2015
"I have on a few occasions fallen asleep at my keyboard (if it is late at night and I'm tired)..."
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
115. No photograph can ever do Van Gogh's work justice.
Sat Feb 14, 2015, 02:33 PM
Feb 2015

Standing in the presence of the actual work and seeing it with your own eyes is awe inspiring. Some of his work has brought tears to my eyes.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
126. Puck. :>)
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:31 PM
Feb 2016

I was able to view this in Sept at MoMA.

What stunned me was how small it is.
Too many people.
I waited for several hours until just before closing so I could get closer..


CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
127. I was hoping to get to MoMA last April but illness of my art buddy and my own health issues
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:34 PM
Feb 2016

interfered...it was a bad year...

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
129. getting there, but slowly and with setbacks. I have to talk to my neuro doc about
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:41 PM
Feb 2016

my shaking hands (due to the meds he's prescribed?). This morning I was shaking like a leaf and I don't get it...

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