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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsis it bad sportsmanship to win by 161 to 2? basketball coach suspended
High school girls basketball coach suspended after team wins 161-2
Sports Illustrated
SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (AP) — A Southern California high school basketball coach has been suspended and faces accusations of mercilessly running up the score after his team won a game 161-2, one of the most lopsided scores in state history.
Arroyo Valley High girls' coach Michael Anderson was suspended for two games after the victory last week against Bloomington High.
Anderson said that he wasn't trying to run up the score or embarrass the opposition. His team had won four previous games by at least 70 points, and Bloomington had already lost a game by 91.
"The game just got away from me," Anderson told the San Bernardino Sun (http://bit.ly/1znnLWJ) Friday. "I didn't play any starters in the second half. I didn't expect them to be that bad. I'm not trying to embarrass anybody."
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-girls-basketball-coach-suspended-6021357.php
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BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)His claim that 'the game got away from me' is preposterous. There is no excuse for running up the score like that and it is exactly what he did. He's a jerk.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Why wouldn't you run up the score to help the girls on your team get a scholarship?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The girls on the team could have scored plenty without being disrespectful and unsportsmanlike.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)He couldn't send int the managers and bookkeepers.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That is not merciful.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)He won.
Great coach.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)He's just performing up to what's expected...
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)If anybody deserved the suspension, it was the lousy coach.
The winning coach did the right thing. Those who suspended him should be fired.
If you are fielding a lousy team, you deserve to lose 161-2.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I'm not going to automatically assume that losing coach is "lousy" or the winning coach "great", because like I said downthread, there can be Grand Canyon-sized gaps in school size and talent levels...
If the losing school was at least near comparable size and dressed at least 10, then yes I would have serious questions about that coach's competency...If nothing else, it's the losing coach's responsibility to throw in the towel, pull his team off the floor and forfeit when things get that far out of hand...
I speak from personal experience -- A blowout loss is one thing, but when it gets to an absurd, headline-making level of humiliation, it's time to bail out...Mark my words: There are no life lessons, maturing, motivation, or any of that pseudo "character building", "get good" bullshit to take away from a 161-2 loss...
I'm not faulting the winning coach to do what he's paid to do, which is to put his players in a position to shine, and win games...Either the losing school needs to seriously reconsider if girls' basketball is something they want to offer moving forward , or perhaps they should be looking to have their team play on a lower level...
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)It doesn't matter which end of the score you are on. It's how you comport yourself in winning or losing that tells the kind of man you are.
This guy was up over 30 points early in the first half and STILL told his players to employ a full court press. The lead passed 40, then 50, then 60 and 70, all before halftime and STILL he told them to press. 80, 90, almost 100 points BEFORE HALFTIME.
He's a fucking meathead.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)
benz380
(534 posts)
MH1
(17,621 posts)have them try new and more challenging plays, stuff like that.
Also tell them to run the clock down on every possession to practice shooting under pressure.
Put their weakest offensive player against the other's team's strongest defensive player and tell the other players they had to get the ball to her for the shot.
Stuff like that to make the most training for his own players out of every possession.
And if with all that, still they can't keep from scoring on every possession, tell them to start playing alternate possessions, or 2 out of 3, as if they are playing with their little sisters and want the little kids to have a chance.
I just don't see how it was necessary for it to go this way. And no, at the high school level it shouldn't ALL be about winning.
That said, I don't know basketball very well, even though I've played a little for fun here and there and even got a huge participation trophy while in the Army. (I was friggin' terrible but still got to play in most games. That's coaching.) Anyway, I think there should be some discussion with the coach, but especially if this was the first time it was this blatant, no suspension. And certainly not fired.
Alittleliberal
(528 posts)It feels way worse to know that you did better because they took it easy on you then to get crushed.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)
Republicans have no empathy and apparenty neither do you..MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Can't stand to lose? Don't play the game.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)Don't get it do you?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You don't get it.
If you think this should not happen, get a mercy rule in and end the game at the designated mercy lead.
Of course, I would consider that even more humiliating.
hunter
(38,346 posts)Fuck 'em.
The kids ought to be playing in clubs out of school.
Why yes, as a matter of fact, I do hate the U.S. "American Way!"
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:29 AM - Edit history (1)
Win at all cost.
Ends justify means.
Obliterate Iran!
Logical
(22,457 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I click the link, I go to the front page of the site. No article. Also, no article on search on the title given.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Did you not read the article in the OP that you are commenting on?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)He could have gone into a slowdown mode easily enough. No fast breaks, no layups, no press on defense, etc. etc. etc.
Archae
(46,370 posts)I went to a small-town High School, and we had shit teams in baseball, football and basketball.
Kohler always clobbered our home team. (Howards Grove)
If a basketball team loses that badly, it's the other coach who should get CANNED!
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Archae
(46,370 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Even their worst players are better than what they go up against. The coach shouldn't have been suspended for such a lopsided defeat of a such a poor basketball team.
http://www.sbsun.com/sports/20150114/without-suspended-coach-arroyo-valley-girls-basketball-wins-80-19
benz380
(534 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 18, 2015, 03:58 PM - Edit history (1)
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)IF this is a problem, they need a mercy rule where the game gets stopped when one team leads another team by so many points.
Let's humiliate the losing side even more by stopping the game because they suck!
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)but I have no issue with a team winning 161-2. That's life. Win some, lose some. And sometimes you lose big.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)
Brother Buzz
(36,493 posts)
Pat scored 36 points that year, second highest on the team. They passed the ball around a lot.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)suspension should be fired.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Ykcutnek
(1,305 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)
TexasProgresive
(12,164 posts)There were accusations of poor sportsmanship, but I don't think so. It was a home game and everybody attended. During half time the coaches located all the JV players had them suit up and sent them out on the field. The score still soared up. The coaches located the freshmen players had put them out on the field for the last quarter. The fish score 3 or 4 TDs. Is a couch suppose to tell his players to not score?
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)in HS FB.
If a team wins by more than 50 points, the head coach serves a one-game suspension.
A team has won by 50 or more on several occasions but they only handed down 1 suspension after taking a look at game film to see how the game was managed.
I think the rule is awful.
It's called defense. Play some. If you can't, and lose by 50, too bad.
Does it feel better to lose by 50 than 51? I don't think so. Dumb rule, imo.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)What little time I participated in sports I rode the bench. You would be sure that I would try my hardest when I did get a chance to play. A coach cannot tell his players to go easy on the opposition. A 50 point mercy rule would be more appropriate. In basketball at least one possible solution would be to go down a player voluntarily. The four remaining players could still hustle, but they would be disadvantaged. When I played intramural basketball in college we were getting walloped by a five member basketball team. One of the players got injured, and they still continued to run up the score on us. I was not psychologically damaged by the situation - I knew we had a bad team full of short guys, but we were out there having fun. More difficult to do that on offense in football, but you definitely could pull someone on defense.
You would like to think we lived in a world where they would end the game, and the winning team showed the losers how to pass over the press or continued to scrimmage with mixed teams that was better balanced. Would the fans find that enjoyable?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)50 points.
It's that simple. If you're going to have a mercy rule, the game ends at the mercy point.
Even if that happens 20 seconds into the game. Game is over at the mercy point.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Couldnt have happened to a nicer dump! 
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)So while there are a lot of intangibles here the only tangible fact is that a higher scoring average is going to make a more attractive prospect.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)It's bad sportsmanship. At least, it is when it involves kids' games.
That doesn't mean I think he should be suspended.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)For not teaching his team how to play, and for that failure leading to a national humiliation. There is no excuse whatsoever to only score 2 points all game. It's not fair to deprive the girls of learning skills which could, if they're lucky, get them a scholarship.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)on another mention that this happened sometimes with a small public school playing in a private school league. Most of the members of the team were there for P.E. credit (which I think is ridiculous) so would the losing coach in that case be in the wrong?
No one should be suspended. If this is a concern institute a mercy rule. It should not be the obligation of the winning coach to figure out how to retain some competitive balance. He very well can't ask the end of his bench to go easy when they already have so few opportunities to play.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)We had that in little league when I was a child. As soon as one team led the other team by ten points, game over.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)It is just another criteria for winning. The only disadvantage would be the game would be shortened, but that hardly seems a disadvantage.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)how big the student body is, how much of a talent pool there is to choose from, and how many they dress for gameday...
I went to a Catholic high school, and I can definitely say that (at for private school conferences at least) there can be immense gaps in school size and resources...I went to a 400-student school, and we'd regularly (but not always) get trounced by the 1500-student school...On the flipside, everybody in the conference crushed the 140-student school, who in most sports only had the minimum allowable roster to field a team (which is 7 for basketball, iirc while powerhouse schools use the full 15 slots)
But it's not always about student body size -- Years after I graduated, another of the conference doormats (about 300 students) invested in their basketball program, and started offering money (i.e., free tuition) for the public school ringers...They even started scouting/recruiting European kids...Now that doormat is playing games on ESPN(!)
jmowreader
(50,585 posts)Arroyo Valley High School: http://www.movoto.com/schools/san-bernardino-ca/arroyo-valley-high-school-063417010365/
3007 students, 129 teachers, 23.31 students per teacher.
Bloomington High School: http://www.greatschools.org/california/bloomington/5045-Bloomington-High-School/
2760 students, no idea how many teachers
According to Google Maps, the two schools are less than 10 miles apart.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I don't necessarily agree with the decision to suspend the winning coach, but the answer is a bit more complex than the "STOP SUCKING/GET GUD" mantra I see in this thread
Logical
(22,457 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)rather than debate.
Rename yourself "Emotional", it fits better.
Takket
(21,693 posts)by his own admission he didn't even play any starters for the second half. its not his fault the other team is so bad and his team is so good, and unsportsmanlike would be intentionally throwing offensive possessions and not playing defense to let the other team score like there isn't even another team on the court. that would be treating your opponent like LeBron james should treat a toddler in a one on one game, and that is insulting to peers your own age.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That would be called running up the score.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The number of baskets scored will play heavily in their chances at a scholarship.
Damned good coach.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Nothing that you have written here is accurate.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The losing coach is the one who should be suspended.
OR better yet, fired for being so piss poor at the job.
rateyes
(17,438 posts)At halftime. The winning coach should not have pressed the other team like he did. Btw, I am a basketball coach. When I have a huge lead, i dont press and send in my scrubs, and play a zone defense. There should have been a slaughter rule in place that says the clock doesnt stop for any reason once a team leads by 30 or 40 points.
SwankyXomb
(2,030 posts)1607. MERCY RULE
At the conclusion of the third quarter or any point thereafter, if there is a point differential of 40 or more points, a
running clock shall be instituted for the remainder of the game regardless of the score. This bylaw applies to all levels
of play.
kcjohn1
(751 posts)This is high school team full of kids. It aint professional league in which the point is to win. The point of school is to teach kids about important life skills.
I have coached kids. There is huge gulf in talent between teams. There many different things he could have done to avoid lopsided score like this. For one, the full court press could have being eliminated as soon as the game got out of hand. Secondly, you can slow the tempo and run half court plays for players who typically don't score. He could have played zone defense letting the opposition run plays and get shots.
If you don't press/play zone D/run half court plays, it is impossible to even score 100 points in a game yet alone win by 150. Coaches like this are scourge in high school sports, and speaks to the lack of character in society.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Too bad.
The losing coach could have coached his team well.
Trekologer
(1,001 posts)No matter how good you think you are at something, there is someone better at it than you. Sometimes the difference is considerable. We are doing kids a disservice by overprotecting them from failure.
kcjohn1
(751 posts)Kids at the high school level already know this. If they didn't, I'm pretty sure they learned this lesson at 20-0, 40-2, 60-2, 80-2, 100-2, etc.
There is nothing gained by running up the score. The losing team does not learn any lesson from it nor it does it teach anything of value to the winning team. It is more concerning that people think the winning team/kids are gaining anything from humiliating the other team. It is the equivalent for me as a 6-4 man dunking on 4th graders, and thinking I'm parting wisdom in this humiliation.
People get hyped up winning/losing, and professional sports, and forget the whole point of team sports in school settings. It is great vehicle for teaching. Things like teamwork, discipline, leadership, work ethic, physical exercise, sportsmanship, etc. Winning/Losing is very small part. This is what this bozo clown of coach does not understand by running the score.
kcr
(15,322 posts)You'd think DU would be better than that.
kcjohn1
(751 posts)Reflection of modern day society. Amazed that people can look at that score, and not have visceral reaction.
I blame lack of empathy in most people. People have been programmed to have winner take all / greed is good approach instead of thinking about the common good and seeing value in everyone.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)This was many years ago during the age of the mastodons, so it's probably not germane to the high-powered world of high school sports nowadays. Dad had one of the better teams in the league, usually running 1-2 with Archrival High (think of the days when Michigan and Ohio State dominated Big Ten football, leading a lot of people to call it the Big Two). One school in his league, Hapless High, had a big blow up on its team, leaving the coach with one junior, one sophomore and a whole bunch of freshmen. They were having a real tough time of it, and Archrival to Dad's team whomped them but good.
The next day, Dad came in to practice and heard his boys talking about how they had to beat Hapless even worse, so they could show up Archrival. Loose talk became big talk, and even talk about how they were going to score the unheard-of total of 100 points against Hapless. Dad listened for a couple of minutes, then called the team together. He had a couple of changes for the starting lineup. He kept one starter in, and filled the rest of the slots with underclassmen. All the seniors were going to sit. Take a break this game, boys.
"Coach, whaddya doing? Archrival beat Hapless 75-20! We could score a hundred points on them, really show Archrival that we're better than them." Dad stood firm, and his team had no trouble winning by a decent margin. Afterward, the coach for Hapless High shook Dad's hand and said he appreciated what Dad had done. Dad told the coach he wasn't sure what the coach was talking about; Dad's team had a bad case of the flu, and he'd had to sit a bunch of players.
A couple of years later, Hapless High had a seasoned group of talented players who went around the league paying the other schools back. All except one school.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)but they should automatically have games stopped once the point differential reaches a certain point in the 2nd half.
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)He's not playing in the right class. Move up and play some challenging teams, or do what my local HS does and play an independent schedule in a run-up to states.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Winning isn't everything.
Sometimes winning with a bit of class is best.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)even though the opposing team was being beaten 104-1 at the end of the first half?????
His suspension was completely justified.
Orrex
(63,261 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Orrex
(63,261 posts)
underpants
(183,002 posts)But Bloomington coach Dale Chung says Arroyo Valley used a full-court press for the entire first half to lead 104-1 at halftime.
Logical
(22,457 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Must have been uncomfortable for audience
wavesofeuphoria
(525 posts)Paladin
(28,282 posts)I believe that coach deserved that suspension, if the concept of good sportsmanship has any meaning at this point in time.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)Lack of ethics would be academic fraud, shenanigans to get personnel that shouldn't be in your district, paying players, and other forms of cheating.
Playing the game within the rules is not an indicator of a lack of ethics.
Paladin
(28,282 posts)Dickster
(104 posts)I coached basketball for 25 years at all levels in high school. I've seen it all, and been on both sides of this issue. I've seen a 71-1 asskicking at a neighboring school. There can be huge differences in ability among teams. Those who fault the losing coach for not doing a good job of coaching defense are blindly ignorant of the reality of sports at that level. Sometimes the differences in ability and talent are so out of line that the game just gets out of hand. The losing team gets so demoralized that they can be virtually helpless in stopping the onslaught.
The coach on the winning team showed a lack of what I call "class". He could have, and should have pulled the harness back and slowed his team down after it became apparent that he had the game in hand. Humiliating the opposition serves no purpose other than to foster an atmosphere of chest beating, a really juvenile act in my opinion. In my experience, coaches that do this kind of thing are usually ostracized by their coaching peers. I recall a conference winning coach denied 'Coach of the Year' honors by his peers because he had a bad habit of running up the score against conference opponents. In this case, the winning coach received his " cumuppance" from his boss. If he'd shown a little "class", he might still be on the bench coaching...
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)While the bloviators and blowhards on this thread thump their chests and reveal themselves.
Nice post. 
Dickster
(104 posts)The coach was not a teacher in the school system. There are a lot of coaches who come from the private sector, some of them quite good. But a lot of them have not had the training that comes with teacher education or he experience of dealing with ALL kinds of kids with vastly differing abilities that one gets in the classroom. My guess is the coach was someone without that perspective, his only motivation is "win, Baby, win"
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I dont think he tried to run up the score.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)There are few better/quicker ways to improve in most sports like playing against superior players/teams.
Of course if the winning team stops playing like they are capable of playing and starts playing a possession game or something like that, it detracts from that considerably.
I've played on strong and weak teams in a number of sports as a kid and adult and have been in blowout games in both directions. When you are on the losing side, you can try to see the techniques the other folks are using and try to learn how to do those things.
It all depends on how your coach is guiding you. 5 minutes in the losing side coach should have called a timeout and said to his/her players "Look, we aren't going to win this game, but what I want to do is get as much out of this as possible. Watch how X players on the other side do A thing. Watch how Y players on the other team to B thing. Concentrate on executing parts D and E of our game plan and see if we can get that done a few times.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)You know, the games are for the benefit of the winning team too. The coach has the right to give his players one half of practice running his preferred defense and offense and then calling it off after that.
I don't see anything wrong with that.
AndreaCG
(2,331 posts)A full court press is really a hardball tactic, usually used for a short time in the college games that I see. It tries to not let the opposing team get over the half court line in time. Or not let a player get rid of the ball to her teammate. To make the game a learning experience for the winning team they should have mixed up the defenses, as on the college level most teams don't press continually. This coach was a jerk.
mythology
(9,527 posts)I get that there are even times when you want to make sure you drive in the stake a bit. But this was more than that.
It's not even just about having respect for your opponent, it's about having respect for yourself. If you're that much better, you don't need to crush them to prove it.
TeamPooka
(24,289 posts)but that's just me.
