General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre You Aware of the Ziplock Method for DUI Checkpoints? Video included
[link:http://thefreethoughtproject.com/aware-ziplock-method-dui-checkpoints-watch-learn/|
Sobriety checkpoints also known as DUI checkpoints are the most common roadblocks you might encounter. They function as a general purpose investigatory tactic where police can get a close look at passing motorists by detaining them briefly. A roadblock stop is quick, but it gives police a chance to check tags and licenses, while also giving officers a quick whiff of the drivers breath and a chance to peer into the vehicle for a moment.
Remember that your constitutional rights still apply in a roadblock situation. Though police are permitted to stop you briefly, they may not search you or your car unless they have probable cause that youre under the influence or you agree to the search. As such, you are not required to answer their questions or admit to breaking the law.
In the video, a man hangs his registration, insurance, and drivers license from his rolled up window inside a ziplock freezer bag, in order to proceed through a DUI checkpoint.
Also in the bag is a flyer, which states:
I remain silent
No Searches
I want my lawyer
Please put any tickets under windshield wiper.
CPLR §308 & Pacamor, 132 Misc.2d 269 (1986)
I have to show you my papers not hand them to you.
VTL §312(b), §401(4), §507
Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/aware-ziplock-method-dui-checkpoints-watch-learn/#QUHESy4pvTrZwt6w.99
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)They'll call it probable cause.
benz380
(534 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)that minorities, particularly blacks, are singled out for "special" treatment by the police. The most powerful tool we have is the capacity to collect information (mostly video) and distribute it widely. That is what we need to do, imho. Fight back with our own dashcams, iphones, internet skills, etc. I don't know a fast way to make the craziness stop, but I think we will reach a point where the public once again awakens from their denial.
I didn't look at the site yet, but it's notable that they had access to the race data.
barbtries
(28,811 posts)for MADD, where i speak to offenders about my daughter. This is in Durham NC...about 75% or so of the people showing up are latinos. please don't tell me that profiling is not going on. it is simply not credible that most impaired driving is committed by a minority of the population.
as the bereaved mother of a victim i want to see impaired driving wiped off the planet. not at the cost of the constitution - it should not have to be at such a cost.
having said all that, the best way to get through a checkpoint is sober.
groundloop
(11,523 posts)I knew a wonderful 8 year old boy who was killed by a driver who was impaired. All the grief from that wound up tearing the remaining family apart, very very sad situation. I have no room for anyone who drives while impaired.
(I also don't condone abusing the constitution).
barbtries
(28,811 posts)the key has to be education.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)"impaired" means not only under the influence of substances, but people who are sleep deprived, eating, drinking, texting, talking on the phone, putting on makeup, doing their hair -- and the woman I once saw from a bus window who was driving at 60 mph on an interstate while changing her baby on the front seat. They are all just as dangerous as a drunk driver.
yourmovemonkey
(267 posts)I lost my brother to a driver who was on drugs almost exactly 2 years ago. The representative from MADD was very supportive and helpful through the whole trial.
Unfortunately, my brother's killer was a handsome blond haired, blue eyed white kid, whose family could hire a really sleazy expensive lawyer. After the 2 and a half week trial, the jury only found him guilty of driving under the influence because the blood tests were incontrovertible. They didn't even find him guilty of possession of the three packets of heroin that were in the driver's door pocket of HIS truck. The jury bent over backward twisting logic to let a murderer go free.
When I spoke to one of the ADAs after the trial, I asked him how this would have turned out if the kid had been black and poor. He told me that it never would have even gone to trial.
barbtries
(28,811 posts)and the added complication of having to live with a travesty of justice. i recently advocated for a family whose son was killed and the killer got only 18 months. the day the DA told us about the plea deal with my daughter's killer remains the 2nd worse day of my life. it was like they were killing her all over and there i was sitting in the room this time.
i think it's because so very many people have driven impaired and tend to think it could have been them, in the killer's shoes. but they say it's the lack of intention to commit a crime. well i don't believe that. anyway don't get me started. don't want to highjack the thread. thank you for your comments.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)My former brother-in-law was convicted of manslaughter for killing his girlfriend while intoxicated in either North or South Carolina (can't remember). I never met him and was only married to his sister for a short period of time, but was at home when she got the call. All I can remember is being just shocked. He got 15 years in prison. Two lives ruined forever, what a waste.
barbtries
(28,811 posts)his life didn't have to be ruined forever. hopefully he did his time gainfully and got out wiser. i like the sentence though; my daughter's killer got only 4 years and was out in a little more than 2.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)The one thing my ex-brother-in-law had against him is he had several DUIs in two states and a suspended license.
benz380
(534 posts)...what do you think of the sentence that Melissa Marvin received for killing those 4 girls and injuring the boy? I believe it was a proper sentence. I only wish other offenders would get more time than they do. People are still arguing about this online. Thanks.
barbtries
(28,811 posts)only got here in 2007
but i think it was fair. she was a repeat offender and she was at about .28 when she killed those kids.
when the person who killed my daughter was given a plea deal and only 4 years, it was like they were killing Bekah all over again. It was like saying Bekah was chopped liver.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)A strange thought springs to mind--One very useful and potentially effective tactic would be to gather simple information like this & find ways to distribute it out where it's needed, among the disenfranchised. The thought expands into the notion of a "street survival academy" that teaches this stuff pus how to behave in a cop stop so as to minimize your risk of being abused or killed. Also training on how to use smart phones & other small video devices effectively to get the highest-quality information & documentation of events.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)I've done the "open the window a quarter inch, just barely enough to slide out the license and registration". The baggie is better.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)And that problem is that people should not be driving under the influence. This will require a lot of extra time at DUI checkpoints preventing drunk drives from being removed from the road.
I understand constitutional rights, I get that but this looks an awful lot like a way to try to get away with breaking the law.
ret5hd
(20,521 posts)somebody else may do something that we all know is wrong and dangerous.
I, for one, hail your patriotic fear. Will anyone else stand with us?
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)I posted my feeling about and this is your response?
I am not a fan of DUI. No apologies will be given for that.
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)I find that not drinking and driving is the best way to avoid hassles with police who are conducting these road checks.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)More people need to understand what they are, why our founders found them important enough to enumerate them and how to stand up for them.
840high
(17,196 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)rights. Are far are you willing to take this? Cavity searches just in case?
840high
(17,196 posts)suggested cavity searches. My daughter and grandson were almost killed by a drunk driver.
imthevicar
(811 posts)Can pull them over, not wait for someone who hasn't had a drink all day, coming home after a late shift, that gets stopped at a Papers check point. so some copper can make a quota saying "you smell like booze, pot etc". just to look for other ways to generate Income. Because lets face it that is 90% of a modern policeman's job.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)they might be drunk. If they're not, they shouldn't be pulled over.
Historic NY
(37,453 posts)and field sobriety tests. Depending on your state I'd be careful and check those laws. There is case law on the legalities of the checkpoints and the SCOTUS ruled they were constitutional and not a violation of the 4th amendment. There are certain hoops that must be met including radomness. I'd use caution, a video isn't a good reason to believe otherwise.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/12/02/texas-ammosexual-calls-police-criminals-for-running-dui-checkpoint-then-gets-hit-by-drunk-driver/
Skittles
(153,193 posts)no doubt you'd f*** up out of sheer nervousness, drunk or not
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)I just personally don't believe that the approach the OP has submitted is very smart at all.
This is the case law you are referring to, correct? http://traffic.findlaw.com/traffic-stops/are-dui-checkpoints-legal-.html
dsc
(52,166 posts)the drunk drivers find out about them and avoid them as they are drunk not stupid.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Much lower risk.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)you may want to open that window. It's a legal requirement in at least a couple states.
Or don't. It gets a little monotonous just standing there..
1monster
(11,012 posts)obstruction of an investigation.
We showed the video to Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri. He said try it in Pinellas and you'll be arrested.
"It's about doing the right thing and we are trying to do the right thing to protect the public and keep drunks who kill people off the road," Gualtieri said.
FairDui.org Founder and Author Warren Redlich says the idea is not about protecting the drunks.
"A lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea that police can just stop you for no reason," Redlich said. "If you are not comfortable with that, this is a good way of handling a checkpoint."
Quoted in the article, Tampa DUI attorney says that the method is legal, "but you draw attention to yourself. When you draw attention to yourself, then you'd better be squeaky clean going through because otherwise, you give them another reason to pay attention to you. If you are not squeaky clean, that could be the worst thing that happens to you."
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)He handed them a flyer citing NY law at a checkpoint in FL. It might be more effective if he'd either cited a federal precedent or FL law.
bhikkhu
(10,724 posts)I haven't ever had a problem as they don't do DUI checkpoints in my state that I've ever heard of, but good to know.
on edit - I don't drink and drive, so it wouldn't be an issue anyway. I still cringe when I think back to the last time (20 years ago) I should have been arrested, but wasn't. I'd been drinking with friends on a "movie night", and decided to drive home around 2 am when I really shouldn't have. Coming up to a red light on a busy road I realized that I needed to turn left a bit late and veered clumsily into the turn lane, blocking the straight lane with the back end of my truck. As I sat waiting for the light to turn, crooked across two lanes of traffic, I realized a police car was right behind me, that I didn't have insurance papers, that I was driving a truck that didn't belong to me, and that it was highly unlikely I'd pass a sobriety check. Sweating bullets, the light turned green, I turned left and the police cruiser went on straight...never done anything that stupid and irresponsible again.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)You can be arrested even if you blow .000 on a breathalyzer if you fail field sobriety tests, but unfortunately those tests are inaccurate and are more of a physical fitness test than anything. Somebody who is out of shape and mildly tired, yet completely sober, is just as likely to get tagged with a "DUI" as a drunk person with the skill to walk a straight line.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)of drugs (not alcohol) and blow a .000. and be dangerous on the road e.g., opiates.
dsc
(52,166 posts)as someone who is sober for nearly 15 years but very uncoordinated I can easily see not passing the sobriety test despite being sober.
DustyJoe
(849 posts)This in my neck of the woods is epidemic. The number of people still driving after double digit DWI arrests is insane.
http://www.daily-times.com/News/ci_27262169/Kirtland-man-faces-16th-drunken-driving-offense
Maybe if they'll start putting these people away and getting them off the street, the rest of the public won't have these checkpoints to endure.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)and catch and release, ad infinitum. It seems they'd prefer to have habitual drunk drivers stay on the road, as long as they can pay their fines.