Fast food jobs in Denmark pay living wage

[PasadenaTrudy]

$20.00 an hour...That will never happen here, will it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/business/international/living-wages-served-in-denmark-fast-food-restaurants.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[immoderate]

1. No. They are civilized.

--imm

[valerief]

4. ^^^THIS^^^

[hifiguy]

15. Point and match.

I got nothin' to add to that.

[shenmue]

2. Nah, 'cause people might make actual money

In ye olde times, actual conservatives - moderates - used to give you a boost once in a while, if the company were making a lot of money. Now, conservatives still tell you they will boost you up, but they never manage to do it, no matter how much they have socked away in the Caribbean or some place. This is to keep you running on the rat wheel.

[Populist_Prole]

29. Funny thing with conservatives or corporatist types

I noticed something when talking with them about this issue: They're not the least bit concerned about whatever effect an increase of their own income would have on pricing/inflation. If they get a riase; well that's good because they have more $ in their pocket......BUT.......if anyone else gets a riase in pay, then it's "oh noes" That causes inflation and the price of whatever to go up. What kind of chasing one's tail logic is that?

I hate jerks that aspire to be a rich man in poor country.

[yeoman6987]

3. Nice! Having only 5.5 million in the country is

Probably a help.

[immoderate]

5. How so? Fewer customers?

You are asserting an economics of scale. Based on what? Does this imply a country with fewer than a million can have a $40 minimum wage?

--imm

[Recursion]

57. There are 16 McDonalds per million Danes, and 45 McDonalds per million Americans

And the McDonalds in Denmark hire fewer people on average than the American ones; they use those automated order screens. Though in fairness, it's not as popular a cuisine; there are a lot more Nordsees.

I'm for a minimum wage increase, but we should stop pretending it will have no marginal effect on the number of jobs created.

[nomorenomore08]

64. We have to strike a balance somewhere, I suppose.

As it is, it seems like modest min. wage increases are more good than bad for most states' economies.

[immoderate]

66. How is it then, that states with higher minimum wages have lower unemployment?

And if McDonald's hires fewer people, then maybe they are working somewhere else, like MacFrikadeller.

I submit that increasing minimum wage might just as well increase the number of jobs. Think about it.

--imm

[Recursion]

67. Because those states are generally run by Democrats

They also have lower crime, lower teen pregnancy, less obesity...

[JonLP24]

82. You're correct in evaluating it from a case-by-case basis

The rising fixed costs would cause some firms to exit the market and other firms in different markets would adjust by lowering the hours in the case of McDonald's it wouldn't apply. They can afford to do a lot of things but they offer the lowest wage they can get away with (so are the Lions with Calvin Johnson but he is more difficult to replace). The rising fixed costs wouldn't have the effect the variables where the market is competitive (KFC, Burger King, Subway) for employees it wouldn't effect things. Based on the theory the the competition is monopsonistic in nature (agreement or close to it in this case among competitors not to pay more than a fixed price for a key input such as labor) would see an employment increase in-theory anyways.

You're right though but the effects (increase, decrease) vary depending on market, firm, costs, etc -- sure a company can do the manufacture side of things with the labor laws and wage offers in Malaysia but fast food will have to somehow sell fast food to people in America.

I had problems sleeping last night so I may be viewing your description and getting the headache like backing up a semi tractor-trailer but what would you describe in Denmark should have to opposite effect on wages. Especially the machine. But I could easily viewing this backwards but I think the economist in the article perfectly explains the reason which includes similar reasoning you used to explain higher employment in states with higher minimum wages.

[pampango]

6. That's what the head of the International Franchising Association said, but that does not make it

true.

Many American economists and business groups say the comparison is deeply flawed because of fundamental differences between Denmark and the United States, including Denmark’s high living costs and taxes, a generous social safety net that includes universal health care and a collective bargaining system in which employer associations and unions work together.

$20 an hour is the lowest the fast-food industry can pay under an agreement between Denmark’s 3F union, the nation’s largest, and the Danish employers group Horesta, which includes Burger King, McDonald’s, Starbucks and other restaurant and hotel companies. By contrast, fast-food wages in the United States are so low that half of the nation’s fast-food workers rely on some form of public assistance, a study from the University of California, Berkeley, found. American fast-food workers earn an average of $8.90 an hour.

In Denmark, fast-food workers are guaranteed benefits their American counterparts could only dream of. Under the industry’s collective agreement, there are five weeks’ paid vacation, paid maternity and paternity leave and a pension plan. Workers must be paid overtime for working after 6 p.m. and on Sundays.

True, a Big Mac here costs more — $5.60, compared with $4.80 in the United States. But that is a price Danes are willing to pay. “We Danes accept that a burger is expensive, but we also know that working conditions and wages are decent when we eat that burger,” said Soren Kaj Andersen, a University of Copenhagen professor who specializes in labor issues.

Of course the fundamental differences between Denmark and the US are not population but government policies - "high taxes, a generous social safety net that includes universal health care and a collective bargaining system in which employer associations and unions work together". If the Danes can do it (not to mention "France, Finland, Switzerland, Germany and Norway&quot then I think we can do it too.

If you look throughout the rest of the world, fast food unions aren't all that rare. In addition to Denmark, McDonald's has worker unions in France, Finland, Switzerland, Germany and Norway. This isn't because the workers in those countries simply asked their local McDonald's reps for one. It's because they've been fighting for years to get recognized. (If you have some time, this history of McDonald's fighting attempts to unionize is worth checking out.) These kinds of things don't happen overnight. They take time. And maybe, now it's time for the American workers to get one.

http://www.kcet.org/living/food/food-rant/mcdonalds-workers-in-denmark-make-21-an-hour.html

[JonLP24]

85. Excellent points but finishes with the flawed Big Mac example

I don't know how McDonalds' - Denmark operates but generally they charge the highest they can get away with. This is an extremely simplistic example but highlights the balance firms seek in pricing. If 5 people bought something at $2 would mean they make $10. If they raised it $3 but only 3 people purchased they made less. If they lowered it to $1 and 8 people purchased they made less.

Ironically part of what goes into price raises is CEOs crying "we have to" due to some sort of rising cost when in reality the had a high quarter in earnings so they raise they price because they can.

Article makes excellent points and if the populace is convinced that they have to pay more for a Big Mac and feel good about it then McDonalds' did good there.

[Kingofalldems]

13. What does that have to do with anything?

[tenderfoot]

28. It's the standard excuse for not paying people or taking public transportation seriously.

or providing Universal Health Care.

It's been pretty effective for the past 30+ years. Right up there with raising the minimum wage will hurt business thing.

[Kingofalldems]

30. So it's a republican talking point?

[tenderfoot]

56. Perhaps not exclusively to Republicans

but you hear the "they only have x of people compaired our hundreds of millions..." reason for not doing things that make sense.

[immoderate]

71. So well put.

It's frustratingly irrational and deflects from the actual issue.

--imm

[R.Quinn]

7. And it's happening

without minimum wage laws. Interesting.

[bettyellen]

8. because they are all unionized, and that is even more interesting.

[SunSeeker]

10. Denmark does have a minimum wage of $20/hr in practice.

As the article notes:

...Mr. Elofsson’s $20 an hour is the lowest the fast-food industry can pay under an agreement between Denmark’s 3F union, the nation’s largest, and the Danish employers group Horesta, which includes Burger King, McDonald’s, Starbucks and other restaurant and hotel companies.

This, in practice, creates a $20 minimum wage. Per the article:

McDonald’s learned this the hard way. When it came to Denmark in the 1980s, it refused to join the employers association or adopt any collectively bargained agreements. Only after nearly a year of raucous, union-led protests did McDonald’s relent.

[R.Quinn]

11. That is not at all the same

as a mandated minimum wage. This is simply a wage-floor established by unions in only one private sector (the fast-food industry). It does not affect other industries at all.

[SunSeeker]

12. What other industries in Denmark pay less than $20/hr?

The average minimum wage for all private and public sector collective bargaining agreements was approximately DKK 110 ($20) per hour, exclusive of pension benefits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

[R.Quinn]

14. Your source says "average",

which tends to suggest sometimes higher and sometimes lower. All I was saying is that a CBA is not the same thing as a minimum wage mandated by law.

[SunSeeker]

17. And all I'm saying is universal CBAs act as minimum wage laws in practice.

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:51 PM - Edit history (1)

You suggested that the $20 minimum wage only applied to the fast food industry in Denmark, and it appears that is incorrect.

Are you against a minimum wage law of $20 in the US?

[R.Quinn]

19. Yes.

I am indeed against such a minimum wage. I see minimum wage as an assault on individual liberty. It decreases the freedom with which employers and employees may negotiate their services/labor for appropriate pay.

I believe a person should be paid based on how the free market values that person's skill set. If your skill set is in demand or hard to find, you should get paid more. If you don't offer anything innovative or valuable to the market, then you should get paid less. Doctors get paid six figures because their skills and education are rare and in-demand. That is the beauty of the free market at work.

This position often gets twisted around as "hating the poor" or "siding with the rich elite", but those are straw-man attacks. It is simply the position of liberty, choice, and limited government. Live and let live; the chips will fall as they may.

[JaneyVee]

20. That is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on DU.

Congratulations. Your free market idea would lead to everyone fighting each other for the lowest wages.

[R.Quinn]

21. Thanks for your reply.

Could you provide evidence to support your hypothesis?

[JaneyVee]

22. First, who sets the wage value of labor? Lets start there.

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

[R.Quinn]

23. Alrighty.

The market sets the wage value of labor.

Employers then pay their employees according to the demand in the market.

[JaneyVee]

31. The market isn't a living breathing entity...

WHO sets the wage value? Also, the market fluctuates. Are you saying wages should fluctuate? One week the employee makes $20/hr, the next week they make $3/hr?

[R.Quinn]

33. I don't think your first question makes sense.

There is no "person" who sets the wage value. The market forces of supply and demand, while not living breathing entities, are the forces responsible for determining wage value. It is the same with the force of gravity causing the Earth's revolutions around the Sun. There is no "who". Please help me understand what you are getting at.

As far as fluctuating wages, I find such a scenario where wage values would change so drastically over the course of one week to be a bit unrealistic. Can you provide an example of such a thing happening? Normally, an employer and employee must agree on the terms of compensation before a hiring, so it should be up to them what those terms are (although my guess is that few employees would agree to a fluctuating wage, and few employers would propose such an idea).

[JaneyVee]

34. I can't even believe I'm having this debate.

Look, employers pay the lowest wages possible. It's calked a minimum wage because they would pay you less if they could. If you want negotiated wages that's what unions are for.

[R.Quinn]

35. I answered your question

and you never answered mine. Why do hospitals pay doctors six figures? Wouldn't it be in the hospitals' best interest to pay doctors the minimum wage to save money? Why doesn't this happen?

[JaneyVee]

46. We're talking minimum wage, not 6 figures.

No one is saying lower doctor wages, we're saying raise the bottom wages.

[nomorenomore08]

38. People in a First World country should not be paid starvation wages. Period.

You know damn well Wal-Mart et al would pay $2 an hour if they could get away with it.

[R.Quinn]

45. Honestly, I can appreciate your sentiment.

However, I will ask you the same question I asked JaneyVee:

Why do hospitals pay doctors six figures instead of minimum wage?

[JaneyVee]

47. Doctors in hospitals are wage earners, they don't...

Necessarily make 6 figures. I don't see your point/correlation between doctors and minimum wage workers.

[R.Quinn]

48. It's not about six figures, specifically.

The point is that doctors make great money. Why? Because the market demands their skills and expertise, which are difficult to come by. Meanwhile, jobs that pay minimum wage are generally not jobs that require high levels of skill or expertise; the market is already saturated with individuals who would be qualified for such a job.

When supply is greater than demand, wages drop. When demand is greater than supply, wages rise. Therefore, the best thing an individual can do to make more money is to increase their usefulness to the market, thereby increasing their own market demand. If you want a "fair wage", you should bring something to the table that warrants it. Minimum wage removes the incentive to increase one's market value, thus causing a huge surplus of unskilled workers, which is the situation we are seeing now.

[JaneyVee]

51. My brain can't even comprehend that nonsense.

What you are advocating is the complete destruction of wages, where everyone eventually fights for the lowest wages possible. Need proof? Check the states with no minimum wage laws and see how poor they are.

[R.Quinn]

87. The fact you failed to mention

is that the cost of living is also LOWER in all of those states. So if anything, you've just proven my point.

[nomorenomore08]

54. The point is that *no one* should work 40 hours a week and not be able to feed themselves.

Letting the greedy bastards at the top of the pyramid set wages sounds like a recipe for becoming a Third World country.

[Recursion]

58. Education and job training are never going to be the answer

They may be good for a given individual, but that's not the answer to poverty. Training a bunch of electrical engineers doesn't actually increase the amount of electrical engineering that needs to be done.

[nomorenomore08]

60. There is some truth to the supply and demand model, but it's far more complicated than most

amateur economists seem to think.

[Recursion]

61. I don't think anybody seriously doubts the price signal

I just also get tired of the notion that there's an infinite amount of work out there that people are willing to pay a living wage for.

[nomorenomore08]

62. Yep. If there were no truly no need for a minimum wage, then our wages would look more like Denmark.

As bad as things are, they'd be even worse if billionaire assholes like the Waltons could "set their own price" for labor.

[nomorenomore08]

49. All I know is that the libertarian "free market" ideal leads almost inevitably to massive inequality

The rich will exploit the poor, the stronger will exploit the weaker. And more and more wealth is concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, which I consider a dire threat to any semblance of democracy.

[SunSeeker]

65. Good grief. Where do I begin?

First, there can be no fair bargaining when the parties do not have equal bargaining power. It's kind of like how you can't really bargain for a liver. You need that liver to live. If it costs $100,000, you don't say, "nah, I'll wait until it's only $50,000 or no deal." The person who has the liver won't die if he doesn't sell it to you, but you will die if you don't buy it. So you will pay whatever they ask, mortgage your house, do anything. The "liberty" to pay or die is not liberty, it is extortion.

Similarly, there is no level playing field when it comes to low wage unrepresented workers. They can either take the shitty wages or starve. The "liberty" to take the low wages or starve is not liberty, it is not "freedom." It is serfdom. The corporation won't starve if it doesn’t hire you. It's not even human. It's immortal. It can wait you out. It can and will set your wage as low as the law allows. It has no morals. A low wage worker can't bargain for a higher wage. They will take the shitty wages and live in their car, like so many do. They have no high demand skills, like say, a doctor. We can’t all be doctors. People who work 40 hours a week should not have to sleep in their cars, or live 5 in a room in some fleabag apartment. That is not a world we should put up with. There is no "beauty" in that.

There is no "free" market. The market is skewed in favor of those who have power. That is why the rich exploit the poor. Because they have the power to get away with it. There is no equality of opportunity. It takes money to make money.

Libertarianism has never worked because it assumes a world that does not exist. The only thing that makes the world civilized and livable are laws that establish fairness rules so that the rich do not take advantage of the poor. Rich people, through their corporate legal shields, use up low wage workers' labor to make massive profits and leave their workers' broken, destitute bodies to the mercy of our frayed safety net. A safety net which, by the way, Libertarians seek to eliminate.

Please spare us your ruminations about the "beauty" of the "free" market. DUers know better and you're just insulting our intelligence.

[R.Quinn]

78. I get that you're pessimistic.

Last edited Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

But you're making some assumptions that just aren't true. You carry on as if everyone MUST work for someone else, and that ALL of the available employers are going to pay crap wages just because they can. These premises are both false because (1) you can be self-employed, and (2) as of right now, the vast majority of working Americans are making MORE than minimum wage.

How do you think small businesses and innovative entrepreneurs ever get started? It's because people want to work for themselves and/or see a demand that the current market is not meeting. You don't like what you're getting paid? You're unhappy with the market's current offerings? Start your own business and pay yourself (and anyone you hire) whatever you think is appropriate. It's that simple, and it happens all the time. That's how healthy competition is created. Except...

...based on your previous statements, it appears that you're not a fan of competition. You claim that laws "establish fairness rules". This may be one of the widest-spread economic misconceptions of all time. When rules and regulations are passed on businesses, they never hurt large corporations like Wal-Mart because Wal-Mart already has the capital to absorb whatever costs those regulations create. You know who suffers? The little guy. The mom-and-pop business. The locally-owned store that has been family-run for generations. These small businesses get run into the ground by rules to the point where they don't have a prayer of competing with Wal-Mart, and that's exactly what Wal-Mart wants: less competition. Guess who passes these rules and regulations into law? Politicians. Guess who pays them to pass these laws? The corporations. (See: campaign donors) It's a vicious cycle, and your well-meaning efforts to curb the power of the corporations does nothing but empower them further.

The cruel irony here is that you don't trust corporate CEOs to do pay people "living wages" because they are greedy and corrupt, so you look to politicians (who are just as greedy and corrupt, if not more) to level the playing field. Ask any small business owner if they feel down-trodden by rules and regulations, and I think you know what they will tell you. What we need is more small businesses that can pay their employees appropriately so that nobody has to work for a corporation like Wal-Mart ever again. But this will never be achieved if you choke the life out of small businesses and innovative start-ups from the get-go with regulation. You must make the entry to market EASIER, not harder.

The world libertarianism assumes is that people will naturally make decisions in own best interests (and they should be free to do so as long as it does not result in aggression towards another person). That, my friend, is exactly the world we live in. Don't pretend that YOU know better by twisting, tinkering, and distorting the natural mechanisms of the free market.

[SunSeeker]

88. I am not being "pessimistic. " It's reality, unlike your level playing field fairy tale.

Corporations exist to make money, not to create jobs or do moral things. They exist to maximize the short term wealth of their shareholders. They get sued by their shareholders if they don't do that. Competition serves innovation if it is regulated to prevent the rich from monopolizing a market or taking advantage of the poor. It must be regulated because there is no level playing field. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that demonstrates either dishonesty or complete detachment from reality. Put down that Ayn Rand book and read Elizabeth Warren's.

You appear to be a Koch Libertarian who thinks that government should not exist and all politicians are corrupt. That is insanity and only serves the ultra rich. Mom and pops need to be protected from the Walmarts of the world. I agree with FDR, only government - -beholden to the voters as opposed to shareholders -- can protect us from corporate abuse. The Dem politicians I support are not corrupt. They support what you would consider socialist policies like public education and government spending on R&D that spurs innovation and allows mom and pop startups to have a chance.

If you spout Koch brothers right wing talking points and don't vote for Democrats, you are violating the TOS and should not be here. Your posts on this thread amount to clumsy trolling. Stop wasting everyone's time.

[R.Quinn]

90. Don't pretend you know me.

I am no friend of the Koch brothers and I never suggested that "government shouldn't exist", either. You are putting words in my mouth and assuming things about me that you couldn't possibly ever know. I am here because I want drugs decriminalized, wars ended, and domestic privacy restored, and there are few Republicans who fight for those things. However, that doesn't mean I will suddenly agree with economic policies that don't make any sense.

I'm sorry if this comes off rude, but the economic facts are against you. Regulations always disproportionately hurt small business; this is a fact. Google it, look anywhere, you will see that it is true. If you really think politicians are more trustworthy than corporate CEOs, then there is nothing I can do to help you; that is a true fantasy. You didn't even deny that politicians are paid by these very corporations, probably because you know it is true. Politicians also have "shareholders" (campaign donors) they are beholden to and must enact policies that will keep them happy in order to get re-elected. Surely you can see the parallels here.

Do you speak of the same Elizabeth Warren who voted to send $225 million of American taxpayer money to Israel for its “Iron Dome” system? Does that sound trustworthy to you? It doesn't exactly make me want to read her book.

There is nothing wrong with having a healthy distrust of government; in fact, it is essential to keeping a government in check. To completely and totally trust any politician--FDR or otherwise--is folly. But I will leave you to it if that is what you really want.

[SunSeeker]

91. Libertarians are Republicans who want to smoke pot.

As I am sure you've noticed, your right wing voodoo economics bullshit is not welcome here and spouting it is a TOS violation.

[PowerToThePeople]

73. enjoy your stay

[daleanime]

81. If you're going to tell me that all discussions between employer and employee to be....

are on a level playing field, I will sent you the hospital bill.

[Takket]

9. i'm sure their society will completely collapse any moment now........

[hifiguy]

16. So highly paid workers equals

a socialist hellhole, according to Repukes? I mean, all of Scandinavia and most of Europe, especially Scandinavia and Germany, is a socialist hellhole, right? Am I missing something here?

[topological]

18. Every single job should pay a living wage.

At least $20/hour with benefits.

[Recursion]

59. Including the sno-cone stand the teenager works at over the summer? (nt)

[SunSeeker]

70. I pay my 16-year-old babysitter $15/hour.

Teenagers who take part time jobs deserve a decent wage too. Labor is labor. If they are making snow cones the same as a 40-year-old does, they should be paid the same wage as that 40-year-old.

I really think it is immoral to pay someone less than $15/hour in America.

[mnhtnbb]

72. I used to pay babysitters $10./hour back in the 1990's in MO and NE

I always figured my kids were worth it. But I also asked the sitters to do
more than put the kids in front of the TV. They played with them. Read stories
to them. Fixed dinner. Got them to bed on time. I also left shifts of sitters
in charge of kids--getting them to/from pre-school and staying overnight--
when my husband and I would travel.

I remember the boys telling me once, about a new sitter, who only watched
TV herself; she was never hired again.

[Lonusca]

77. "If they are making snow cones the same as a 40-year-old does,

they should be paid the same wage as that 40-year-old."

Does the reverse hold true? That if the sno-cones are equal, should the 40 year old be paid less? Labor is labor, as you said.

Isn't this how we got to where we are?

[SunSeeker]

86. I believe in equal pay for equal work.

If the 40 year old has been there longer and thus is more skilled and/or has supervisory responsibilities, of course he or she should be paid more. But we are talking about a part-time seasonal job operating a snow cone machine. I can't imagine why age alone should determine pay under those circumstances.

What is your point regarding "how we got here"?

[topological]

79. Any full-time position, yes.

I am not sure the snow cone stand would fit within that definition.

I see what you are saying, however. Some exemption can be made for underage workers.

[Helen Borg]

24. It would, if things had kept in sync with inflation...

[moondust]

25. Pity the poor shareholders.

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Out on the golf course, or home in bed, not getting wealthier nearly as fast as they could be if they could just squeeze the blood out of those poor, helpless turnips like they do in other countries.

[SunSeeker]

69. I'll always remember this rich Swede getting interviewed...

The interviewer kept asking him about the high taxes in Sweden and kept trying to get him to say how awful the the taxes were. Exasperated, the interviewer finally said, "But don't you want lower taxes so you can keep more of your money?" "No," the Swede said, "I don't want to be a rich man in a poor country."

[Cleita]

26. It could happen here if all workers get unionized.

We need to start helping the unions fight back, even us retirees need to help and get laws passed that enable them to thrive again. That's why Denmark and Sweden have living wages at the bottom of the job ladder. Also Thom Hartmann, who also had this on his program today, answered the RW argument that the price of the burgers would go up. It turns out that their burgers are only 80 cents more than ours.

[Louisiana1976]

27. I heard this story on the radio. It was explained that the Danish fast food workers had a union and

Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 09:04 PM - Edit history (1)

the union demanded $20 an hour. The only solution is for American fast food workers to form a union and demand $20 an hou.

[UglyGreed]

32. Well

they may have to do it here sooner than later. Opportunities are drying up in the good old US of A. Besides, how are we going to be able to buy plastic pumpkins and such?

[PasadenaTrudy]

36. I wonder if Denmark

has a right of return like Israel? My grandfather on my mother's side was born in Copenhagen...

[UglyGreed]

83. I would check it

out I were you.

[PasadenaTrudy]

84. If one of my parents

had been born there, then it would work. Rats! My parents and grandparents are long gone.

[COLGATE4]

37. A coke in a fast food place there will

set you back around $7.00 US. Your typical hamburger, fries and drink runs around $20.00.

[scarystuffyo]

41. I googled for a price list in a McDonalds for Demark

Where did you get those prices?

[COLGATE4]

42. Paid them myself in Copenhagen airport

a year and a half ago.

[scarystuffyo]

43. thanks

Is that considered normal pricing through out the country?

I paid $15 for a pack of smokes at an airport where if I had went to the local convenience store down the road I could
have bought them for $7.00

Casinos all do so this , you are in a place where you won't leave so they charge more than double for a lot of foods
, smokes etc...

[Recursion]

55. You're always going to pay absurd prices at an airport

Last edited Sun Feb 14, 2021, 08:22 AM - Edit history (1)

I haven't been to Denmark in a while, but a Big Mac in Vienna is about €5, which is $6.50 or so.

[sir pball]

50. A Big Mac in the US averages $4.80, in Denmark it averages

$5.18, per the Economist's Big Mac Index.

[scarystuffyo]

39. The only that would ever happen is everybody would have to walk out

across the entire country. It could be done

It could be done with Walmart and every retail job in this country

[FBaggins]

44. That's what 3-4% unemployment and a solid education system will do for you.

The cost of labor can grow quite high when employers have few options and few low-skilled workers to draw upon.

Of course... the end result is also that the prices are much higher (and the gap listed in the article isn't even close). Even accounting for the VAT, expect to pay more than twice as much.

So no... until there is no longer a flood of unemployed and under-skilled people fighting for those $9/hr jobs (and others willing to pay much more for their fast food)... we won't see anything close to $20/hr for those jobs.

[Recursion]

53. Denmark's unemployment is higher than ours. It's at 6.7% (nt)

[stillwaiting]

75. Lucky for those unemployed that they have a better safety net than we do.

They definitely have that priority set correctly.

[midnight]

52. I like this idea….

[jamzrockz]

63. I don't know about $20 for flipping burgers

Minimum wage is a bit low but $20 as minimum wage will distort the economy in ways we cannot forsee. I would likely quit school tomorrow and work minimum wage if I was guaranteed $20 and hr with healthcare and state sponsored higher education for my kids. But I would like to know how much a can of Coke costs in Denmark?

Also I would guess this doesn't take into the account of purchasing power parity between US and Denmark, so $20 may not actually be $20 in US terms

[SunSeeker]

68. Any increase of that magnitude would be implemented gradually.

I don't know what "distortion" it is you fear. Compensating people for their labor with a living wage is not a distortion, it is a correction.

And yes, a can of Coke will set you back $4 in Denmark, but staples like rice and milk are about the same, as is rent for a modest apartment. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Denmark

And keep in mind the two big ticket items that put Americans in bankruptcy are free in Denmark, namely healthcare and education. So, even with the higher grocery and restaurant bills, Danes still have a lot of spending money.

I traveled through Denmark and it was a wonderful, clean, beautiful place, particularly Copenhagen. I saw no homeless and everyone seemed to be busily going about their day, happy. I was also struck by how few obese people I saw (maybe it was the $4 Cokes!).

Sadly, the weather is brutal, with long, dark winters. I could never live there year round. Southern California is my home. But there is no reason why we can't have what Denmark has, less the frigid winters.

[stillwaiting]

76. I think it's important to look at how expensive it is to live in Denmark.

It seems the Danish employee lives a dignified life that he certainly deserves. He can pay all of his bills and put a little bit aside for savings/retirement.

He is not living a life of luxury that's for sure, but he IS living a life of dignity.

And, that is the metric that should be provided to anyone who works a full time job. It's a damn shame that so many Americans don't believe the same.

[bhikkhu]

89. What terrible results do you fear if full-time workers didn't live in poverty?

I think we live in a country of terrible distortion myself, where people work full-time and still can't pay the bills. I am all for a solid social safety net, but I don't think able hard-working people have to rely on that, just so the corporate top-end can report a slightly higher profit margin.

There are plenty of examples of thriving economies, with good social safety nets, and where a living-wage is the standard. Ours isn't one of them.

[hunter]

74. Any job that can't pay a living wage isn't worth doing.

It's astonishing U.S.Americans will work for less.

It's astonishing government subsidizes wage slaves.

The Puritan "work ethic" is bullshit.

[JonLP24]

80. Bingo

Many American economists and business groups say the comparison is deeply flawed because of fundamental differences between Denmark and the United States, including Denmark’s high living costs and taxes, a generous social safety net that includes universal health care and a collective bargaining system in which employer associations and unions work together. The fast-food restaurants here are also less profitable than their American counterparts.

“Trying to compare the business and labor practices in Denmark and the U.S. is like comparing apples to autos,” said Steve Caldeira, president of the International Franchise Association, a group based in Washington that promotes franchising and has many fast-food companies as members.

“Denmark is a small country” with a far higher cost of living, Mr. Caldeira said. “Unions dominate, and the employment system revolves around that fact.”

But as Denmark illustrates, companies have managed to adapt in countries that demand a living wage, and economists like Mr. Schmitt see it as a possible model.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/business/international/living-wages-served-in-denmark-fast-food-restaurants.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

The reason why the pay isn't like that in the US because they can easily replace an employee -- (I actually know a Jack-the-Box employee who routinely doesn't show up was fired and rehired a few times -- she has been with them awhile and knows managers here or there but she justifies it by saying "they need me" if that was the case, I'd negotiate for higher wages (I don't know if she still works there but often times she isn't there when I visit her roommate) -- at that wage offer.

Certainly radically different factors come into play.