Don’t vote for what they tell you you have to be against. Vote for what you know you should be for.

[merrily]

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/bill-clinton-arkansas-midterm-elections-111634.html#ixzz3FS6e0kBM

Voting advice from Bill Clinton that Bill Clinton may regret in another year or two.

[coldbeer]

1. That is a great point!!!

Voting advice from Bill Clinton that Bill Clinton may regret in
another year or two.

Not to get on a bandwagon but Hilary is a DINO!

[merrily]

2. On that bandwagon, you'll have some company.

[A Simple Game]

4. Don't worry, it's a big wagon. The support for Hillary seems to be waning more and more

every day. It is noticeably less on DU.

[merrily]

10. I didn't notice the wane bit.

I think the same contingent that supports everything New Democrat/DNC supported Hillary and still does. Those who did not support her to begin with don't support her now.

And then, there are those who, more than two years out from an election, say they don't want her, but take a way premature, totally unnecessary and self-defeating loyalty oath to vote for her anyway.

[treestar]

3. to accomplish what?

you have to account for the other voters.

[merrily]

5. I don't understand your comment or how it relates to the OP.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. He's saying that you ...

(your political leanings and that of the loudest voices on DU) do not/does not constitute the median political position of Democrats or the Democratic party.

I think.

[merrily]

20. The OP is a quote from Bill Clinton and the response from treestar was to accomplish what?

So I did not understand the relation of the reply to the OP. And your post, while it states your general view about me and the Democratic Party, does not explain the relation of treestar's comment to the OP, either. Or even attempt to.

I don't think you are correct about where the median of the party or the country is on the issues. And I am not one of the "loudest" voices on DU, either. I think I have started fewer than ten OPs since I started posting.

[treestar]

17. What are you going to accomplish by voting for say the Green Party

or whatever and letting the Republicans win? You're pretending there aren't enough Republicans to win.

[merrily]

21. That's a quote from Bill Clinton that I said he might regret in a year or two.

I think it could be used against Hillary.

I am not pretending anything, least of all that Republicans can't win an election. And assuming I even tried to pretend that, who would believe me?

[treestar]

23. I think you are pretending that

you can control the rest of the voters if the Democrats would simply say really left wing awesome things. This is not going to happen. Republicans would simply get more advantage than they already have and everything would move farther right. They've been doing it for 30 years because it works. They get to the polls and don't have to be motivated. There aren't enough of you to have any effects on the elections. That's because you pretend you don't have to convince the other voters and get them to vote for liberal candidates, too. So you've made no effort and merely complained that others have failed you. You refuse to be part of the process of self government and want an instant fix which will supposedly control the minds of other voters without having to convince them.

[merrily]

25. No, I am not pretending anything.

IMO, the reason Republicans have gone further right for the past 30 years is because Democrats have gone further right, esp. since Clinton (Bill, that is).

There has not been a primary yet.

BTW, you are imagining that you know a lot about my life and me that you really know nothing about.

[randome]

30. Right. Republicans are simply following the Democratic lead. What unmitigated nonsense.

The only thing you seem to want to do is depress voter turnout by advocating -via something Bill Clinton said- to not vote if you're not entirely satisfied.

Otherwise, why make this OP at all? Surely you agree with Clinton, right?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

[merrily]

33. Still trying to make it about me. It isn't.

Still trying to pretend you know me, too. If I am trying to depress the vote, you might try to explain all the posts I've been making for months about helping people get absentee ballots and, if in an ID state, contacting the elderly and disabled especially to help them get IDs, even if there is a case against the requirement pending in the state, because you can't predict the outcome. Also, my other GOTV posts.

Surely you agree with Clinton, right?

I absolutely agree with Clinton as to 2014 and I also think those words may come back to bite Hillary. Much as the OP expressly states.

[randome]

36. Then why are you talking about 2016 when the primaries haven't even started?!

It's like saying to use your jetpack responsibly when nobody has one!

2014 is a hundred times more important than 2016. Are you familiar with the concept of triage?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[merrily]

37. Why are people posting as though we have a 2016 nominee when the primary hasn't started?

Bill's quote, which makes up most of the brief OP is about 2014, though I said he may come to regret his words. Yet, the replies I got were all implying I had to back Hillary or help Republicans to win. No one on the thread went to 2014 OR the primary. Those are the posts to which I have been replying since the OP. If someone had posted about 2014, I would have replied to that, too. I did mention 2014 both in the OP and in my reply to treestar, even though I think I am the only one on this thread who made any mention of it at all. So, ask them why they all went immediately to the 2016 general, not me.

As far as triage, please, get real. Whether we post about 2014-and I have, on other threads,--or 2016, it's a message board. None of is performing triage here. Certainly your posting about what I am posting about is not performing 2014 triage.

[Android3.14]

6. To accomplish electing a representational government

I understand the argument that withholding a vote for HRC means the Repubs have a higher probability of a win, but it also means the DLC receives the message to come back to the left.

If the party uses the vote-by-fear tactic to stomp to the right during every election, eventually we end up voting for the right.

Without principled voting, there is nothing to guide the party along their member's principles.

[treestar]

18. Shooting self in foot

Is all that accomplishes. Republicans get into power and do right wing things. The Democrats get the message they need to move more to the right, because the country has gone to the right.

[merrily]

22. The country is NOT going to the right.

The propaganda put out by one or both parties and distributed by mass media seeks to take the country to the right.

But, they wanted the rich taxed more, a public option and other things not traditionally considered rightist. Then the propaganda machines started roaring.

[treestar]

24. Then they should vote that way

Complaining about propaganda which convinces them does nothing to change their minds. You're pretending you don't have to convince them. How are you going to stop the 'propaganda" (the right wing's ability to convince people) without violating the First Amendment? It is not working - the voters are not getting the message.

Again, pretend the other voters are simply controlled via propaganda without proposing any solutions to get them to think for themselves. You voting for some third party is not going to work - most voters won't find out about it.

Yelling "Bernie for President" won't work either. Note that Bernie does have some ability to appear on the propaganda channels, but does not succeed in convincing enough voters to make a difference. Persuasion is an art and the Republicans have mastered it while the left complains that they are losing to the right, which convinces no voters, apparently.

[merrily]

27. I have not yelled Bernie for President or Warren for President or, indeed anyone for President yet.

The only thing I've said about the Presidential election so far is that I want a genuine primary, not an anointing or a coronation. I am hoping a lot of people, including Bernie, will run in the Democratic primary. When I know for sure who is running, I'll make up my mind whom to back, just as I did in 2008 and all other Presidential years since I've been eligible to vote.

You're the one pretending to know everything I think and do, but you don't even know what I have or have not actually posted about Sanders. Maybe trying to make it about me by making up stuff about me allegedly pretending and not participating in the process of self government is easier for you than sticking to issues? Don't know what you hope to accomplish by it, though.

BTw, how people vote is a function in great part of what choices they are given and how desperate for change they feel. Or how hopeless they feel.

[Android3.14]

31. Really?

I agree the strategy has the short-term result of reducing the probability of an election win, but has the long-term effect of increasing the probability that the party will shift for the next election.

Did the Republicans respond to their losses in the last two presidential elections by trying to shape (albeit poorly) their message towards women, younger voters and non-whites?

Didn't we see a concerted shift to marginalize the Tea Party?

This example reveals the error in the "shoot yourself in the foot" philosophy.

If the Democratic Party does not respond to the people it purportedly represents, then we must eventually show that our vote does in fact have the price of expecting our leaders to represent our values.

Seriously, what other control do we have?

[Andy823]

42. Hmmmmm

One problem, by the time the DLC is ready to "come back to the left" the republicans will have done so much damage that when democrats do get back in power it will take years and years to fix the mess republicans leave them. Kind of like what George W. did. He had 8 years to screw things up, and he did a great job of it, and every with all that has been done by president Obama it will take a lot more years to fix it all, that is unless republicans get back in power then we go back down hill again.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. In my case,

ending the 30-year bipartisan war of plunder against the 99%.

[merrily]

12. I would say it began with the first Euro trash slave-owning settlers.

It's been interrupted by the New Deal and the Great Society, but one could argue that those interruptions were aberrations, ue to fear of violence from the proletariat and much of both were soon rescinded. And, as George Carlin opined, "They're coming after your Social Security."

So far, "we" have not let "them." But, there's no deadline and they show no signs of giving up.


Remember, JFK, son of one of the architects of the New Deal (who was also one of the architects of 1929 crash), referred to the New Deal as Democrats having saved capitalism in the US.

[treestar]

19. That'll end with Republicans in power

and is not a message that most voters will go for.

[merrily]

28. No, the only possible choice is not between Republicans and DINOs. No matter how many times

it gets said or posted, that is simply not true.

[treestar]

43. It depends on the other voters

If you'd rather sit on the sidelines and criticize and be above it all, go for it. Nobody is going to respond to a "stay home because they are all alike campaign" or if they do, and you succeed in that, you are assisting Republicans. It's the arguments of Republicans who thinks Dems are stupid enough to fall for these arguments. They believe we are stupid, know we have trouble GOTV, and so they start telling us this shit. It's stupid shit.

Be pure and vote Green or stay home (not really sure which you are trying to advocate). Or join the rest of the country/state/county and be part of the process. That involves compromise which is what government is about (living in peace with other people who may not agree with you).

[merrily]

44. If you want to continue to pretend to know me, you should at least know what I post.

I have posted on DU again and again that not voting at all, whether out of apathy or in an attempt to delegitimize the system or whatever, is the worst possible use of election day. I have also posted that I have no idea what the Greens are up with that Shadow Cabinet stuff, which I don't get and don't respect. The only time I might vote Green is in a local election if I am 100% sure it won't defeat a Democrat. So, if a really bad Democratic candidate for Boston school board ever loses by one vote, you can feel free to ask me how I voted in that election. In all likelihood, the answer will still be Democratic.

I am not Libertarian or Republican, either.

I have been an active part of the process since before I was of age to vote.

I am a traditional Democrat, probably somewhere between FDR and Truman, not even a liberal Democrat, who hasn't drunk anyone's KoolAid and doesn't buy the memes that some Democrats here seem to try so hard to sell. And who has little tolerance for the disingenuous sales attempts.

For instance, I don't buy the meme that Hillary has the best shot at winning the general. Or the meme that no one to her left can win the general. For one thing, Obama ran to her left in 2008 and won the general rather handily.

I am also a Democrat who wants a democratic Democratic Party along with a democratic Democratic primary. I believe there is little enough democracy in this country without taking away from us the choice of our own party's candidates, ala Hong Kong. That's it.

Sorry that I don't fit any of the boxes into which you seem to have some inexplicable need to place me. thAgain, it seems making up stuff about me is easier for you than dealing with issues, but it's not really about me.

[merrily]

46. PS, I should clarify that I meant I am

somewhere between FDR and Truman on domestic economic policy, but not at all like them on using nukes, internment, blind eye to Jim Crow, etc., though I credit Truman for recognizing that a segregated military was wrong and acting on it.

[MannyGoldstein]

38. So Elizabeth Warren is sought after to help Dems

campaign in red states because... why?

[merrily]

45. "Obviously," she is there only to make them feel grateful their Dem candidate is not as far left

as she is.

Left to their own devices, without the blare of propaganda, Americans never want stuff like affordable school loans, let alone affordable schools. They want University Presidents living like pashas (whatever a pasha is) and lots of help to mega corporations, banks and brokers. Everyone knows that.

[woo me with science]

40. +100000

[meegbear]

8. So people should ignore anyone who tells them to vote against Hillary?

[merrily]

9. If Hillary is what you truly are for, then yes. If not, no.

[salib]

11. Wise words.

Don't vote against someone simply because you are "in a snit."

[merrily]

16. Vote for what you know you should be FOR. Yep, good advice indeed.

[Fuddnik]

14. I've said before, a politician has to earn my vote.

It's my vote, and I don't take it lightly.

I made one exception yesterday with my absentee ballot. I voted for "Chain Gang Charlie" Crist for Governor. Only because Rick Scott is too evil to ignore.

But, come 2016, I will not vote for someone who stands for everything I stand against. No way do I vote to support a former Walmart board member, who is a war hawk, and supports free trade agreements that will reduce us all to slave labor minions. I don't give a fuck if the repukes nominate Ted Cruz or Michelle Bachmann. I will only vote for a politician who supports the 99% over the 1%.

To quote a former illustrious President, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me again, well we don't get fooled again.

[treestar]

26. That's looking at it backwards

It is taken lightly by most other people. It's only one of many. A coalition must be built - we are not alone in this. We are part of the process. What are they to "earn?" The Republicans "earn" plenty of votes. If you think you are outside the process and other people are trying to sell to you rather than being part of the process, you will not be paid attention to and your vote taken even more lightly than it already is.

I don't make someone "earn" my vote, I figure out which party to join in order to get more accomplished of a liberal agenda. This is not so easy in a country that votes for right wingers and in some places, extremists like Bachmann or Akin.

[merrily]

29. We are still in the stage of Democrats vs. Democrats in a primary.

And Hillary is not the only possible Democratic candidate, only the one they seem to want us to anoint.

I am still hoping for democracy within the Democratic Party.

[merrily]

47. When Akin's extremism was revealed, they did NOT vote for him.

McCaskill was very smart to donate to his primary campaign. Democrats who are exposing the extremism of Republicans instead of running away from Obama are also smart.

[whatthehey]

15. Yes! And I vote FOR the best viable choice. What earthly reason is there not to?

[merrily]

32. Let's see what the primary field consists of before we decide who the best viable choice is.

By 2007, everyone had decided that was Hillary. They were wrong then. And, regarding the 2016 Presidential this is not even the equivalent of 2007, but of 2006. They could be wrong again.

BTW, I think Hillary, if nominated, has an excellent chance of losing the general. I know that is not the propaganda being pushed by those who are again telling us she will unquestionably be the nominee and is the most electible. But, I did not believe them in 2007, either. I thought she'd lose the general then. That's why I backed Obama.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[merrily]

35. What did John Quincy Adams know?

We need a new system.

[woo me with science]

39. K&R

[woo me with science]

41. kick