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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRobert Parry: Sidestepping Ukraine’s ‘N-Word’ for Nazi
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/06/sidestepping-ukraines-n-word-for-nazi/Exclusive: The mainstream U.S. media is hazing German Chancellor Merkel and President Obama for sidestepping the I-word invasion in reference to Russia and Ukraine. But the MSM goes mute on Ukraines N-word for Nazi so as not to disrupt the pro-Kiev group think, says Robert Parry.
By Robert Parry
The New York Times, in its ceaseless anti-Russian bias over the Ukraine crisis, now wants everyone to use the I-word for invasion when describing Russias interference in Ukraine despite the flimsy supporting evidence for the charge presented by Kiev and NATO.
The evidence, including commercial satellite photos lacking coordinates, was so unpersuasive that former U.S. intelligence analysts compared the case to the Iraq-WMD deception of last decade. Yet, while ignoring concerns about the quality of the proof, the Times ran a front-page story on Friday mocking Western political leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel and President Barack Obama, for not uttering the I-word.
The Times article by Andrew Higgins essentially baited Merkel and Obama to adopt the most hyperbolic phrasing on the crisis or risk being denounced as weak. The Times couched its criticism of their circumspect language or what it called terminological fudges as a victory for Russian President Vladimir Putin.
But the Times and other U.S. mainstream news outlets have engaged in their own terminological fudges regarding Ukraines N-word for Nazi by hiding or burying the fact that the Kiev regime has knowingly deployed neo-Nazi militias to wage bloody street fighting against ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine.
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malaise
(268,903 posts)What about our fellow DUers?
From day one I was attacked for mentioning the neo-Nazis.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Saves time when spreading disinformation, among other things.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)set it and forget it.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Online Propaganda - Invisible Tool of Secret Government
I'm so old, nashville_brook, I can remember when it was illegal for the government to propagandize the People.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)... perhaps you are not familiar with his work. Blah blah lies blah blah Bush Administration blah blah...'
Same shit, different day.
Sid
Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)in the east? There are certain things that are as predictable as night and day!
Also predictable btw, is that people will point out what a great journalist Parry and Escobar are because everyone who knows anything about journalism, knows their work.
Thanks for the OP.
I see CNN is now beginning to tell the truth about the Kiev Govt's slaughter of Ukrainians. It guess even they can no longer watch those crimes and remain silent.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)stuff we know so little about. Parry comes along with a narrative that doesn't match the vague and contradictory messages coming from the beltway, and people lose their minds.
why is that?
the US media was wrong about WMDs in Iraq b/c the administration and military at the time were feeding them a pack of lies. you'd think that alternative narratives would be welcomed given the sad state of beltway journalism. maybe the beltway is wrong. maybe parry is wrong -- how can we know the truth if there's no discussion?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)anyone would give credibility to those who got it so tragically wrong and were exposed as having been fed propaganda through their own 'reporters', Judith Miller eg. And that a PR Firm was paid millions of dollars for that very purpose, to funnel propaganda to the more than willing US Media, the firm airc was called 'The Rendon Group'.
I see that Parry's reporting is in line with most reporting outside the US Media. He has a long reputation of accurately reporting on these conflicts, so I'm far more inclined to believe him and all the other journalists who are pretty much reporting the same information.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Me too!
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)He makes shit up, then says others make shit up...
Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)in this article? Thanks.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)It is sickening, just like Hitler to justify taking the Sudenland...the true fascist is scum like Parry trying to justify the blood spilled by Putin. I alwsy thought fascism would come from the right, but Parry certainly makes the case that the far left is just as dangerous.
Sickening shit.
reorg
(3,317 posts)Diana Magnay, CNN: Poroshenko will have a hard time winning back hearts and minds in this city as the people of Donetsk sweep up the debris of their homes and livelihoods. The president, they say, is killing his own people.
Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)This article suggests Parry is telling the truth. Are both Parry and Parfitt lying?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists
Kiev throws paramilitaries some openly neo-Nazi - into the front of the battle with rebels
By Tom Parfitt
11 Aug 2014
The fighters of the Azov battalion lined up in single file to say farewell to their fallen comrade. His pallid corpse lay under the sun in an open casket trimmed with blue velvet.
Some of the men placed carnations by the body, others roses. Many struck their chests with a closed fist before touching their dead friends arm. One fighter had an SS tattoo on his neck.
Sergiy Grek, 22, lost a leg and died from massive blood loss after a radio-controlled anti-tank mine exploded near to him.
As Ukraines armed forces tighten the noose around pro-Russian separatists in the east of the country, the western-backed government in Kiev is throwing militia groups some openly neo-Nazi - into the front of the battle.
The Azov battalion has the most chilling reputation of all. Last week, it came to the fore as it mounted a bold attack on the rebel redoubt of Donetsk, striking deep into the suburbs of a city under siege.
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MattSh
(3,714 posts)Just asking...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to catch up with journalists like Parry and have started to report the FACTS, a bit late, but even they appear to find it hard to remain silent about the massive crimes being committed by the Kiev government. Maybe they do have a conscience after all.
I am looking forward to discussing what it is you think Parry has made up. What specifically did he make up?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Eastern European vacations when they found themselves right in Kiev, promising 'support' to the 'protesters' and posing with the leaders of the Nazi Party?
Well, that's what I heard, they just stumbled, all of them coincidentally, on Kiev and accidentally plotted who to put in power 'when' the coup took place. That was all so amazing, the way they just landed there and plotted who 'our guy' would be. And then guess what, they were RIGHT.
But that couldn't mean anything because we 'were not involved in Kiev's coup'.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)1) Two US senators is not the same as a military unit violating another country's sovereignty.
2) I have never claimed the US didn't have some influence in Euromaidan, so you can just spare me that nonsense.
3) For someone who "doesn't give a rat's ass about Russia", you seem to pop up in nearly every thread about it to completely divert attention away from it.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I notice you pop up in every thread about Russia also.
Which military unit is killing, now thousands, of innocent people in Eastern Ukraine?
Even effing CNN has finally caught up with the reporting on this slaughter by Kiev and has broken its silence as the slaughter becomes WAY TO HARD TO IGNORE.
Sorry if caring about the murder of grandmothers who are no more of a threat to the Kiev government than the average puppy, bothers some of us Liberals. Same way the slaughter of innocent children in Iraq also bothered us 'bleeding heart Liberals'.
I care about where MY TAX DOLLARS ARE GOING. I do NOT want them used to kill innocents.
If you want to know the truth I am ANGRY at Russia for not protecting those people. For playing politics with economic issues rather than send in troops to protect those poor people from the murderous Kiev neo nazis our Elected Officials were partying with and telling them they were 'making history' in December of last year.
The truth is inconvenient and I expect to be attacked as we were when we refused to remain silent on Iraq when I post the FACTS about our Senators and State Dept officials actively encouraging neo-nazis to participate in a coup.
You are wasting your time trying to dismiss these facts. There are TAPES and photos of what we are officially denying.
The world isn't fooled. Maybe stop reading the Corporate Media propaganda and start looking around the world at the International Press reports on the horrors that are being perpetrated against innocent people in Eastern Ukraine. And if you really are supportive of that brutal regime, then maybe you should be petitioning them to stop killing innocents in their own country. Because while our Corporate Propaganda Machine may refuse to report on these atrocities, the rest of the world IS bearing witness to all of it.
I see you are annoyed at ME because of the actions of our ELECTED OFFICIALS and STATE DEPT officials' part in all of this. That is pretty misdirected anger. I am not responsible for their actions. They are making it harder for you to defend and so you lash out at the messengers. That won't change the facts, just as the attacks on Liberals re Iraq did not change those facts.
When the US leaves Ukraine, stops spending our much needed dollars there I will lose interest in the entire situation.; But so long as MY tax dollars are being appropriated to support a brutal regime, you can count on my 'popping up' to oppose it.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)So you want Putin, the Butcher of Grozny, to step in to stop the bloodshed and the violence.
That's just pathetic, even for you.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)Russia has had bad governments. Her people suffered under all of them and the punishing climate. Communism improved lives over the aristocracies in that they got more education, but lost personal freedom, speech, property, etc. Russians know all about hard times.
Still they have a culture that supports the arts and are not characterized as barbarians.
When my dad was a soldier in WWI, he came into contact with Russian soldiers, not sure of how, being forced to fight when the Germans marched into town making all young men fight for them. He passed on a fondness for the Russians, his admiration for their friendliness, music and dancing. Must have been when WWI ended, during pre-Iron Curtain times when countries bordering Russia were not swallowed like after WWII.
We lived in Arlington in the 60's, went to see the Soviet Army Chorus sing and dance live on stage, in DC, and they were awesome, and their national anthem is teary...
I wish they'd have a respite from trouble and that their government would allow personal choices (gays, religion, race, etc.) that it would fear other nations' aggression less, which is why they fear NATO on their doorstep. Russia has no trust because of experience with all governments.. Ukraine should get more of the American contact she so desires....
I hope Russia comes out of this okay. Gawd knows her people have suffered enough because of government corruption and stupidity. Didn't some goofy Russian president give away the Crimea when it was full of Russians? I don't know much about the Russia's history, and am going to read up on it....also have to read up on Ukraine's history and stop relying on Teevee.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Yeah, but it is just a coincidence, I'm sure.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I will respond to posts that are reporting the facts on our involvement in Ukraine. Same way I and the rest of us Dems 'popped up' in posts reporting on our government's involvement in Iraq.
Thanks to reporters like Robert Parry the truth eventually trickled out to the American people in spite of those who were trying so hard to silence those telling the truth.
Btw, I haven't noticed those who are struggling to attack a reporter whose reputation as someone who gets it right on these 'wars' of ours, actually state what he is getting wrong this time. That says to me, that they know he is right. So why then would they be attacking the messenger? THAT is the real question.
MattSh
(3,714 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Therefore, EVERYTHING he says is totally awesome!
All hail Robert Parry!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)journalists who earned their reputations for crediility due to their records of being right over the decades. It is as predictable as night and day that you will let us know that.
So, my question is, and I know many DUers are equally curious, where do you get your information, what sources are credible in your opinion?
Thanks in advance.
Igel
(35,296 posts)And the DNR is more than happy to have chetnici fighting and defending them.
These were Hitler allies in WWII. They massacred Muslims in Srebrenica. In the 1940s.
Oddly, nobody likes to point these out, either.
The problem is fairly simple once you get past details.
Where there are Ukrainian forces, there are few attacks on gays or on Russians for using Russian. There's the occasional attack on Russian orthodox churches, but not so many. There are some fascists, but most of them aren't what we'd call fascists. They're anti-Russians. Some are dyed-in-the-wool fascists, but there's a good reason that most European fascists went with Putin and not with Yatseniuk.
Where there are DNR and LNR forces, you find Catholic churches closed. Most Jews have fled the Donbas because of persecution--and sought shelter not in Russia, but in "fascist Ukraine." You find gay clubs closed and gays bashed for violating morality laws. You find bookstores that sell Ukrainian books shut. Not by the occasional basher of all things Ukrainian or gay or Jewish, but as a matter of policy, by high-ranking politicians enjoying government and DU support.
It's not individual instances of abuse. Those you can find in Sweden, in Norway, nearly anyplace you find people and those that can be bashed. What you need to look for is the patterns. Even where the "fascist battalions" go in after a battle you find fewer abuses than where the LNR and DNR have uncontested power. The only place you really find a lot of abuses showing up is in the Russian media--and by and large, those incidents lack evidence even on the ground when media go to find corroboration.
People get hung up on words. The problem is when you get caught up on words as used in a society that, for decades, delighted in manipulating the meanings of words. Where "fascist" means "anti-Soviet," but "Soviet" means Russian. Where "conservatives" are pro-Stalinist or at least pro-Communist, while "raging liberals" are for a mixed economy. Where the use of "objective" means "how I see it," while "subjective" means how anybody else sees it.
You can translate the morphemes, but often that masks the meaning.
reorg
(3,317 posts)Maxim Eristavi
Maxim Eristavi is an independent writer based in Kyiv. Follow him on Twitter @MaximEristavi.
2014 Kyiv Gay Pride participants gathered in a local conference hall after the cancellation of their civil rights march. July 5th 2014.
For several months during the recent revolution they have withstood gunfire, kidnappings, beatings and freezing cold. However, general homophobia proved itself more resilient than the violent regime of Victor Yanukovych in Ukraine and the local LGBT community has been forced to cancel a gay pride out of security concerns.
A day later, a group of skinhead men tried to break into a local gay bar in the downtown Kyiv. In the last 6 months the place suffered multiply attacks and was completely trashed at some point. No arrests have been made.
This recent outburst of violence against local gay people happened just a day after enthusiastic participants of the February revolution, Ukrainian LGBT activists have decided to withdraw a proposed civil rights march in Kyiv, scheduled for July 5th. They made this decision after the meeting with local police where organizers received a warning: theres going to be no adequate protection for them should violent attacks by far-right groups occur. ...
http://stackstreet.com/cancelled-gay-pride-kyiv-signals-conservative-shift-ukraine-followed-gay-club-attack/
If you have any proof for your claims other than Twitter messages, undocumented propaganda from Kiev or grotesque leaflets proven to be fake, show it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Totally not transparent.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/02/07/the-25-most-shocking-anti-gay-stories-from-russia-so-far/
And, of course, things have gotten worse in Crimea since the thugocracy invaded there.
reorg
(3,317 posts)You may have missed that one the masked attackers shows a Nazi salute gesture to an CCTV camera in the picture.
The atmosphere in Kiev, it would appear, doesn't allow for Gay Pride marches or gay clubs to celebrate the revolution in peace. I can see how it reminds you of these sorry incidents in Russia you have pointed out.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)In Russia, Zhironovsky controls over 10% of the Duma.
Charming group, the LDPR.
On the November 2006 death by poisoning of Russian defector Alexander Litvinenko in London, Zhirinovsky said: "Any traitor must be eliminated using any methods. If you have joined the special services to work, then you should work, but to betray, to run away abroad, to give up the secrets you learned while working all of this looks bad."[43][44] Sergei Abeltsev, Zhirinovsky's former bodyguard and State Duma member from the LDPR, added: "The deserved punishment reached the traitor. I am sure his terrible death will be a warning to all the traitors that in Russia the treason is not to be forgiven. I would recommend to citizen Berezovsky to avoid any food at the commemoration for his crime accomplice Litvinenko."[45] In the 2007 election, political patronage from Zhirinovsky enabled Litvinenko murder suspect Andrei Lugovoi to win election to the Russian parliament and thus the formal parliamentary immunity.[25] He also accused Great Britain (according to him, "the most barbaric country on the planet" of fomenting the World War I, the October Revolution, World War II, and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[46]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zhirinovsky
Difference is that in Russia, Nazis make foreign policy.
Putin is aiding and financing Nazis in Hungary:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141067/mitchell-a-orenstein/putins-western-allies
reorg
(3,317 posts)More on the Nazis mentioned by Robert Parry, this time by anti-Putin, pro-Maidan magazine "Ukrainian Policy". Clearly, they are a major embarrassment for any thinking person.
Social-National Assembly (SNA)
Lyashko worked with Right Sector extremist elements, namely the Social-National Assembly (SNA); and by spring 2014 had effectively managed to lure them away from Right Sector. The SNA is a neo-Nazi movement, which has always been too extreme for the Right Sector. According to its official documents, its 'nationalism is racial, social, great-power imperialist, anti-systemic (anti-democratic and anti-capitalist), self-sufficient, militant and uncompromising'. Its ideology 'builds on maximalist attitudes, national and racial egoism,' while glorifying the Ukrainian nation as part of the 'White Race.'
Lyashko's Radical Party nominated several SNA members as candidates in the May 2014 Kyiv city council elections: Oleh Odnorozhenko (its ideologue), Ihor Mosychuk, Ihor Kryvoruchko, and Volodymyr Shpara. It seems plausible to suggest that SNA members will also be included in Lyashkos party list in the early parliamentary elections possibly taking place in autumn 2014.
The SNA was also behind the formation of the Azov battalion, a volunteer auxiliary police unit that was armed by the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine as part of the Anti-Terrorist Operation (ATO) launched against the (pro-)Russia separatists in Eastern Ukraine. The Azov battalion does not consist solely of SNA members (although there are unverified reports that all the volunteers are required to sign up to the SNA before joining the battalion), but the SNA leader Andriy Biletsky is its commander, with Mosychuk as his deputy. The battalion includes members of Misanthropic Division, an international neo-Nazi movement, whose Ukrainian 'branch' mostly based in Kharkiv is affiliated with the SNA. The Division considers that, rather than liberating Eastern Ukraine from illiberal and undemocratic (pro-)Russia separatists, their 'black squadrons are fighting in the ranks of the pagan battalion Azov against the residues of modern society represented by khachi [racist slur for natives of the Caucasus region], chavs, communists, liberals, Asians and other Untermenschen. ...
http://ukrainianpolicy.com/look-far-right-and-look-right-again/
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Ukraine has fewer fascists in its government thanh most European countries. And a lot fewer than the feral thugocracy in Moscow.
Parry is a fascist bootlicker.
P.S. No honest person is denying that there are Russian troops inside Ukraine.
reorg
(3,317 posts)has "more" or even a single fascist among its ranks. The kind, you know, who gives the Hitler salute and calls "for an ethnically pure nation purged of the Moscow-Jewish mafia and other scum, including homosexuals, feminists and political leftists."
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Several dozens explicit fascists in the Duma.
Putin's ally and foreign policy guru Zhirinovsky being the most prominent.
Third largest party in Hungary is fascist.
9--NINE!--fascist parties in the European Parliament.
Those fascists are all big fans of Russia's government, btw. Seeing that Russia is a fascist state, this makes sense.
reorg
(3,317 posts)The other countries you mention may have a certain percentage of far right or even fascist parties, but no liberal or conservative party invited them to join the government. Ukraine is a first, after WWII. Thank you, USA.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)Do the Limbo:
You won't know how low you can go until you try
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)as if they were premium gelato.
Parry has a 100% pro-Putin slant in his columns. Not even a little nuance. His crap sounds like Russian state media.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)them are fascists too. The problem for you is that outside of the Western Media, and actually even within it to an extent right now, Parry is in the majority regarding his reporting on this disaster.
Just calling reporters names isn't going to help hide the facts. It does make people wonder why anyone wants to hide those facts though.
Btw, where do YOU get your information, what are the credible sources you are using to get your information?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)IMF austerity or Russian Crony Capitalism, either way the common people will suffer.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)He focuses strictly on the Azov battalion--one of several private militias currently operating in Ukraine independently of the command of Ukraine's army and national guard. And indeed there does seem to be a strong neo-Nazi ideology amongst members of this group. It is undoubtedly disturbing.
However, Parry being Parry, he makes several mistakes fatal to whatever he wants his ultimate point to be. First, he conflates the actions of private militias with those of the Ukrainian government. These are not Ukrainian government troops, period. That they may be conducting their own operations in the same theater does not mean they should be considered one and the same. Secondly, he seems to assume all the private militias are comprised with people with the same neo-Nazi type sentiments as you might find in Azov. You can't just assume--as Parry does--that all these militias are fighting under this mindset. And Azov's a relatively small force--only a few hundred fighters or so, many of whom aren't trained or equipped nearly as well as the regular army, so whatever ultimate impact they may have on the battlefield isn't exactly very clear.
Essentially, Asov's taken the bogeyman role on the pro-Russian side that Right Sector and Svoboda used to have before the presidential election revealed them to have very little public support amongst Ukrainians. The pro-Russian side (and Parry is, without a doubt, very pro-Russian) needs someone to point to so they can mark the Ukrainians and their government as neo-Nazi, or fascist, so to give a clear narrative that the people fighting them are fighting against fascism.
And that's where Parry's gross hypocrisy in this piece comes into play. He criticizes the "western media" for creating a "white hat vs. black hat" narrative with the Ukrainians and their government as the good guys and the separatists and the Russian government as the bad guys.
But that's exactly what he's been doing all along, since February, except in reverse. He's always painted the Ukrainian government in the most unflattering of tones. See how he's insisted--without any evidence whatsoever--that what happened in February was a "coup", and a U.S. backed one at that. He framed the May 2nd mob violence in Odessa as some sort of modern day pogrom massacre of pro-Russian "anti-fascists" by Ukrainian "neo-Nazis" even though even a cursory look at the days events reveal it to be a much more complicated situation than that with both sides at fault.
He's never said a good thing about the Ukrainian government, and hasn't seemed to say anything bad about the separatists or the Russian government, which makes his agenda very questionable.
The truth is, yes, there are neo-Nazis living in Ukraine. There are also neo-Nazis and fascists living in Russia (see Aleksandr Dugin) and neo-Nazis and fascists fighting amongst the seperatists, but Parry won't have any of that. The sad thing is, neo-Nazis are just an unfortunate fact of life just about everywhere.
Parry's supporters insist he is still the principled "investigative journalist" of decades back, but the cold, hard truth is he researches little and reports nothing beyond what his agenda supports. For example, someone so seemingly obsessed with neo-Nazis and fascists in Ukraine would probably take note of the fact that Pavel Gubarev, the "people's governor" of Donetsk, was a proud member of Russian National Unity, a fascist/neo-Nazi paramilitary organization, and Gubarev to this date appears to be very proud of the association. But that runs contrary to Parry's own narrative. So the only mention Parry has ever made of Gubarev merely makes him out to have been some sort of political prisoner of the Ukrainian government:
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/04/04/the-age-of-the-oligarchs/
For the people who just looooove to quote Robert Parry because of what he did 30 years ago:
Robert Parry is not being honest with you. Robert Parry is a disingenuous, hypocritical hack. Still.