The Putin Contingent on DU: WTF?

[Vine Gatherer]

As a newb, I am simply not getting the people here actually justifying, or in some cases outright supporting the actions of a man who 1) Is clearly not a friend of this country, 2) Looks down on our President almost as much as does Netanyahu, and 3) Is obviously interested in replacing the Romanovs with his own dynasty: All Hail Czar Vladimir Vladimirovich!

Look, I'm not saying Putin has NO legitimate concerns: In fact, I posted a thread referencing such earlier today. But let's not delude ourselves: This man is no democrat, either upper- or lower-case. Nor is he a leader: Rather, he is a captor, like so many Russian tyrants before him, and his much-ballyhooed poll numbers in Russia are due in no small part to his strangulation of opposing voices, especially in the media.

[DonCoquixote]

1. so many hope

that he will make a new soviet union, with the brics as his allies.

[BeyondGeography]

2. Yeah, well, welcome to DU

There are people here who firmly believe all evil starts with the United States, and are favorably disposed to any leader/nation who opposes us. It's a reflex action; try not to hold it against them.

[RobertEarl]

4. Many of us were raised to believe Russia was evil

But then we grew up and saw just who was really evil.

Our corporations have caused the deaths of far too many in our lifetime.

For those that still harbor bigotry toward anything Russian, we try to forgive you, but some just make it harder and harder.

[BeyondGeography]

6. I love Russian culture, particularly its music and literature

Rachmaninoff is buried up the road from me and I put roses on his grave. Sviatoslav Richter is my favorite pianist. Tolstoy makes me smile. Crime and Punishment may be the best novel ever written. Russians are the best dancers in the world and have many great and soulful qualities. So do Americans, for that matter.

As for the Cold War, the authoritarian, homophobic Putin, under whose rule racism has also flourished, has a name for that: Glory Days. I guess you don't see that.

[Vine Gatherer]

11. Game, Set, Match

The collapse of the USSR was "the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th cenury." - Vlad.

Maybe he thinks Stalin's Great Terror and Hitler's Finall Solution were just pranks that went a little too far, huh?

[pscot]

168. From American workers' viepoint

that may be true. The Soviet Union was the only effective counterpoise to regnant, unrepentant Capitalism. Since the USSR fell it's been Katie bar the door, the Capitalists are in the streets.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

180. The Soviet Union was a bloody, brutal, despotic bastard of a country.

It had very little to do with actual Marxist economic theory, which was essentially a guise to get the common folk to go along with it. Really, the USSR was nothing more than the Russian Empire 2.0. The czars were no longer holding the empire together, and they needed a new means to hold on to all that land that the Russians had conquered up to that point.

[Tarheel_Dem]

80. +1

[zappaman]

101. +100!

[amandabeech]

121. Don't forget the ballet,

and the pas de deux on ice, pairs figure skating.

The Russians pretty much wrote those books.

[lonestarnot]

143. Don't forget about the alexandrite. It is very beautiful. Ural Mts Russia.

[Puglover]

166. Wow.

You're about the only person around that could identify the beautiful blue green stone at the center of my wedding ring.

But it isn't Russian. Andhra Pradesh India.

[lonestarnot]

200. Cool sounds beautiful.

[NCTraveler]

161. You are in a different league than your debate opponent. nt.

[samsingh]

3. there are lots of proputin comments

[sabrina 1]

5. You mean like the Saddam Lovers? Putin Lovers/Saddam Lovers?? Remember? We used to have them too.

Please post a link to a member of the 'Putin Contingent' so we can begin the task of ridding the site of such treasonous trolls.

[leftstreet]

7. I'm still reeling over the onslaught of DU Snowden Lovers

You just get over it emotionally, try to regroup, and here come the massive hordes of DU Putin lovers



How can we ever heal?

[sabrina 1]

9. I wasn't over the Saddam Lovers yet, it CAN take years you know. Then we were hit with the

Greenwald Groupies, and as you said, the Snowden Lovers and now the Pootie lovers. Don't know how I missed them frankly. I'm hoping to catch a glimpse of just one of the Putin Lovers.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

35. Go try any of the diaries by

another_liberal that tell us that the ukrainians are all horrible people who are slaughtering ethnic russians, and that the despite all of the satellite photos, the russians are not actually in eastern ukraine.

[sabrina 1]

44. I have read those posts and saw no 'pootie lovers' there. I guess you didn't either or you would

provided a link. As for the satelite pictures?? I saw them. Saw Colin Powell's also. Saw NOTHING in either, back then there people calling me Saddam Lover and when I had the nerve to say 'I just don't see anything in those grainy pics, (turned out there was nothing to see after all) you can't imagine what I was called.

Same thing now. I see nothing in those grainy pics. What do you see? So the same old same old, is again being dragged into play. 'Pootie lover'?? Really? On DU no less.

Show me a 'pootie/saddam lover or there are none. Show me what I am supposed to see in what looks like a child's drawing of tanks or I what I am seeing is what I saw in Powell's childish drawings/satelite pics.

How about instead everyone talks about FACTS and stops defending the indefensible. Killing to force people to accept a govt they do not want is indefenstible, I don't care where it is or who is supporting/not supporting. It is WRONG. Innocent people are being killed by their own government. Defend it with something other than old 'pootie lover' garbage if you can. But let's raise the level of discourse here a little, back to when we rejected the old Saddam lover distraction, because this sure isn't the same smart, not-easily-fooled place I first came to.

[Tarheel_Dem]

81. "E" for effort, but you're interacting with a poster who boasts "50 million US households watch RT".

It doesn't escape me that she's asking you to "provide a link", when some have been asking her to do the same.

[zappaman]

103. !!!

[sabrina 1]

137. !!!

[zappaman]

140. And "no one invaded Crimea"!

[sabrina 1]

142. Glad you agree.

[Major Hogwash]

112. Big deal. Most of them are just watching a Russian cartoon comedy show starring Yakov Smiroff.

Called "What a Country!", Smirnoff gives the voice to the main character, Gustav Slobbvatavicth Grabowski, a disgruntled, ex-nuclear engineer who was formally employed at Chernobyl.
His wife, named Margo, is voiced by Patricia Heaton.
His daughter, Velez, is a cute, overachieving "A-type" personality in junior high school, and is voiced by Debbie Mazar.
And his son, Boris, is the quintessential smart ass/ goof-off still in grammer school, and is voiced by Danny Bonaduce.

The hilarity ensues when Gustav's gruff, but lovable father, Yuri, moves in to live with them in their little house.
Yuri is voiced by noneother than Martin Short.

However, after a great start, the show seems hackneyed now.
And it has been losing lots of viewers over the last 2 years.

[Tarheel_Dem]

124. I love this sitcom. Tell me more.

What's really sad is that I'd be surprised if RT had a viewership of 50,000 in this country, let alone 50 million. That'd mean they're more popular than Sharknado.

[sabrina 1]

138. Lol, pay attention. You are talking AGAIN to someone who may be 'just visiting'!

[zappaman]

145. Old news.

This is even better...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025479958#post38

[Tarheel_Dem]

150. Oh, Lord Jeebus!

[polly7]

177. I was told I wanted to have Saddam's baby!

Then two minutes later that same person from Texas said he could have me wiped out - killed - up here anytime he wanted. Those were strange times! Deja vu ....... but at least we know what we're dealing with today with the same bullcrap.

[Cleita]

8. There are those here who would rather know the truth about

world leaders instead of what the lockstep propagandists want us to believe. None of us believe Putin is the new Ghandi or Mandela. I personally loathe Netanyahu and believe getting him and his party out of power would go a long way in bringing peace to that region, but our propagandists would have us believe he is the only one with a solution. When Hugo Chavez was alive so much erroneous information was published here by his enemies. We sought to put out the truth but were vilified as Chavez apologists. I believe this is happening with Putin and I don't like him. He's not a good player, but correcting any lies about him is a good thing.

[Vine Gatherer]

13. Oh, the Bibi has a Solution in mind for the Palestinians, all right

a Final one.

[leftynyc]

18. Hyperbole does nothing to help your case

And comparing bibi (who I loathe) to hitler and the nazis make you sound unhinged.

[Vine Gatherer]

28. Okay, then:

We'll just go with the deputy speaker of the Knesset, as well as Knesset member Ayelet Shaked, and ignore the op-ed arguing that genocide is sometimes permissible in the Jerusalem Post. (Who did the right thing and fired the blogger who wrote it.)

[IronGate]

32. Annnnd? That's not Bibi is it?

And genocide was not what happened in the Gaza strip.

[Vine Gatherer]

34. Bibi isn't Putin

Vlad is the subject of this thread, and I shall respond to no further trolling by Netanyahu apologists. Good night!

[DavidDvorkin]

36. Ah, the High Horse Defense.

[IronGate]

38. You're the one that compared Netanyahu to Hitler and the Nazi's, not anyone else here. nt.

[leftynyc]

39. YOU brought up bibi

but don't like being called out on your hysteria - too fucking bad. Don't start discussions and then bitch when they don't go your way. It's juvenile.

[Scootaloo]

57. well to be fair...

When accusing DU'ers of having a deep and abiding love for a fascist warmongering shitheap of a person who happens to be of East European origin, I can see how one might confuse Putin and Netanyahu.

[IronGate]

26. Stupidest post of the day.

Bibi is in no way comparable to Hitler and the Nazi's and your hyperbole is, well, just asinine.

[Vine Gatherer]

29. See above

[leftynyc]

40. It seems our newbie

thinks hyperbole and hysteria are acceptable ways to have a discussion. Perhaps where they came from that was the case. I'll second your nomination that was the stupidest post of the day.

[TBF]

47. That's because our newbie is just visiting from

the site that shall not be named.

[Monk06]

106. That's because the FR Begathon is over and they are free to troll here now. Wankers

[Union Scribe]

178. His posts look and sound exactly like another one

that coincidentally is currently on vacation for too many hides: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5443988

[IronGate]

48. And then denys he/she was the one that broached the subject. nt.

[steve2470]

65. really OTT

You just lost all credibility with me with that analogy. Go read some books on the Nazis, and then talk to me. Good day.

[polly7]

179. Thank you, Cleita. nt.

[Throd]

10. I have been around here long enough to remember the Mugabe fan club.

America/capitalism is the source of most evil in this world and anyone who stands up to it on the world stage is to be applauded no matter how much of a fascist, authoritarian, racist homophobe they are.

The Bobby Mugabe fan club doesn't show up here anymore. Hopefully the Pootlickers will go the same way.

[CJCRANE]

59. That's a new one.

I've never heard of that before.

Do you have a link?

[EX500rider]

104. I remember that also. (been reading DU since 2005)

There was even some North Korea love...."But look, they are all smiling in the pictures!" lol

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. i dont get it either. nt

[geek tragedy]

14. An unholy alliance of the anti-American left,

rightwing fascists, and assorted conspiracy loons and other cranks who pride themselves on living in an alternate reality.

[sabrina 1]

141. Do you know who you are talking to?

Btw, aren't YOU 'The American Left'? Just checking because your comment seems to say you are not. This IS a 'left' site.

[Tarheel_Dem]

152. "Anti-American". Which used to be a big no-no at the DU!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

I'd say we've gone pretty far afield at the old Democratic Underground.

[geek tragedy]

162. the ban on America-haters, kooks and crackpots was always honored in the breach . . . nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. There are Putin fans, and then there are the useful idiots.

The vast majority here fall in the latter category. They see a foreign news story and they automatically assume (even without proper evidence) that the US was somehow involved. Always. (Which is not to say the US is never involved). And they'll use confirmation bias to arrive at their pre-concluded position. And in the instance of Ukraine, that confirmation bias involves the extremely unreliable Russian state media and those who parrot it.

Now, there are a handful of posters here on DU who actually do openly admire the man. It's extremely creepy, but I think the exception, not the rule.

[sabrina 1]

147. 'which is not to say the US is never involved'

Are you serious? How about the US was DEEPLY involved?

From December of last year:

In Ukraine US Senators McCain and Murphy Address Protesters Promise Support

“We are here,” said Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), “to support your just cause: the sovereign right to determine [Ukraine’s] own destiny freely and independently. And the destiny you seek lies in Europe.”

Added Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.): “Ukraine’s future stands with Europe, and the U.S. stands with Ukraine.”

.....

Murphy, McCain and European politicians who addressed the crowd in Kiev on Sunday turned up the pressure on Yanu­kovych, promising that their governments will consider individual financial sanctions against responsible Ukrainian officials if there is any further outbreak of police violence against the protesters who come and go at the semi-permanent encampment on Kiev’s Independence Square.

Wow! That's tough talk about protecting THOSE protesters.

Too bad they couldn't find the time to 'warn' Ferguson officials against SHOOTING American citizens and bringing out tanks and military weapons and 'soldiers, the NG also, to attack THOSE protesters, right here in their own country, no? Meh, who cares about America, Ukraine is far more 'interesting' to our elected officials??



U.S. Senator John McCain, center, speaks as Democratic senator from the state of Connecticut, Chris Murphy, second left, and Opposition leader Oleh Tyahnybok, right, stand around him during a Pro-European Union rally in Independence Square in Kiev, Ukraine, Sunday, Dec. 15, 2013.

That's Oleh the neo nazi btw. McCain has a habit of posing with such questionable people I've learned, like the Al Queda, well 'protester' in Syria eg.

To me that looks like two US Senators in Ukraine issuing orders to the then elected president and promising 'support' to the protesters.

What on earth would two Senators from this country be doing ordering around the leader of a foreign nation and encouraging the 'protesters' telling them 'you are making history'?

That's pretty powerful support right there. And there was more.



State Dept official, Victoria Nuland was there too. Remember her, caught on tape choosing 'our guy, Yatze' to take over after the coup? And handing out cookies to the protesters? There was that embarrassing momen on the tape when she said 'fuck the EU'. Guess they weren't working hard enough to 'support' the cou, I mean protesters.

What a coincidence, all those powerful US reps just happened to arrive in sunny Ukr right before the coup. Promising 'support'. Guess they were all vacationing or something?

Which is not to say we NEVER are involved? I think it would be far better to just admit the facts in the face of all the evidence that has been viewed all over the globe.

Your post is pretty condescending to your fellow DUers, or 'useful idiots' as you called us. Don't underestimate DU, or anyone else for that matter because it isn't just HERE that people are seriously questioning what is going on with that far away country and why our Tax Dollars are being spent on yet another foreign adventure when right here we have one in six children going to be hungry every night.

DUers are pretty astute and not easily propagandized. Were you here during the past decade? '

Let's dispense with the condescension and the pretense that our elected officials just stumbled on Ukr on their vacations.

We KNOW the truth. Then we can go from there. It really does get tiring having to deal with the lies and propaganda and deceptions over and over again.

Now, starting from the fact that the US IS deeply involved in Ukr and was during the coup, WHY? Why are we there?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

163. A) There were hundreds of thousands of protesters and B) There was no coup.

Victoria Nuland or John McCain's preferences are just that. There's no evidence that either of them forcibly removed Yanukovych. Namely, because Yanukovych was not forcibly removed.

My "fellow DUers" are not the useful idiots. Just the ones who blindly parrot Russian state media (and their allies) reports because they are so desperate to prove the next great western conspiracy.

[sabrina 1]

172. The WaPo is 'Russian State Media'? Lol. It's hard to refute hard evidence, I understand that. And

it's also futile. Talk to Nuland and her Neocon husband, maybe she should have been careful which would have made it easier on those whose task it is to deny the undeniable. Even our own Propaganda Machine was unable to hide these facts.

Two Senators, NOT former Senators and a State Dept official promising support to those who DID topple a govt, imagine if they had been RUSSIAN officials? Lol!

Just stop denying the reality of what everyone knows, even they aren't denying it. And let's start from where we are now. WHY is the US involved in Ukraine?

As for your opinion of your fellow DUers, I believe you were quite clear on your opinion of them.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

184. You've not once proven any evidence of a coup in Ukraine.

I know you like to throw that word around a lot, and I know you like to talk about red herrings and non sequiturs like cookies and phone calls and ultra-nationalists, but you can't just assume there was a coup simply because you said there was one.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

[sabrina 1]

190. The discussion was, 'was the US involved in the toppling of Ukr's govt. Not 'prove there was a coup'

I can see why you would now want to change the subject.

I provided you with proof that you were wrong, and that the US was DEEPLY involved with the 'protesters' who participated in the toppling of Ukraine's government.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

191. Your post upthread. Emphasis mine.

State Dept official, Victoria Nuland was there too. Remember her, caught on tape choosing 'our guy, Yatze' to take over after the coup? And handing out cookies to the protesters? There was that embarrassing momen on the tape when she said 'fuck the EU'. Guess they weren't working hard enough to 'support' the cou, I mean protesters.

What a coincidence, all those powerful US reps just happened to arrive in sunny Ukr right before the coup. Promising 'support'. Guess they were all vacationing or something?

Which is not to say we NEVER are involved? I think it would be far better to just admit the facts in the face of all the evidence that has been viewed all over the globe.

Your post is pretty condescending to your fellow DUers, or 'useful idiots' as you called us. Don't underestimate DU, or anyone else for that matter because it isn't just HERE that people are seriously questioning what is going on with that far away country and why our Tax Dollars are being spent on yet another foreign adventure when right here we have one in six children going to be hungry every night.

DUers are pretty astute and not easily propagandized. Were you here during the past decade? '

Let's dispense with the condescension and the pretense that our elected officials just stumbled on Ukr on their vacations.

We KNOW the truth. Then we can go from there. It really does get tiring having to deal with the lies and propaganda and deceptions over and over again.

Now, starting from the fact that the US IS deeply involved in Ukr and was during the coup, WHY? Why are we there?

[sabrina 1]

197. Again, the discussion was Us involvement in Ukr. I know you are pushing the

idea of protesters being so fortunate, wish we could be here, but then we have no outside help, that just by going out into the streets and waving signs, an elected president coincidentally was GONE, nothing happened to make that president just disappear, just innocent protesters holding signs, all of them supporters of DEMOCRACY.

And I'm the Queen of England. This is DU where people generally don't buy fairy tales like that.

It WAS a coup. The only thing in dispute here was 'was the US involved'. I answered that question with proof.

So now, again back to the question that can't seem to get an answer. 'WHY ARE WE IN UKRAINE'? I KNOW how beneficial it will be for Goldman Sachs and the IMF and Wall St in general. My interest is in 'how does benefit the American people in any way?'

[Tommy_Carcetti]

204. News flash: The US is "involved" in a lot of countries.

We have embassies, consulates, diplomatic relations, etc. We get the lay of the land of the various players in charge of the country. We have our favorites and our not so favorites. Members of Congress and the US State Department frequently go to various countries to survey the situation.

This is not exactly shocking news. Nor is always some sign of some nefarious plot by the US to overthrow another country's leadership.

There was no coup in Ukraine, let alone a coup executed by the United States. The only ones pushing that line is Moscow and its state run media, and the gullible dupes who wish to believe them.

[SidDithers]

205. "gullible dupes"...

Nailed it.

Sid

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Would you rather have Sarah Palin as President of Russia?

[suffragette]

135. Ok, you made me

Great post, Tierra!

[conservaphobe]

17. Well...

Take comfort in the fact that their irrelevance on here is just a preview of how inconsequential they are in real life.

They are but a few drops in a sea of betters.

[TBF]

45. "They are but a few drops in a sea of betters"

I'd love to hear you explain that comment in a way MIRT can understand.

[conservaphobe]

49. I owe no one an explanation.

If having subzero respect for those who carry the mantle for Putin makes me a 'malicious intruder,' then so be it.

I'm here to discuss issues of importance to working class Americans, none of which entail hoisting Vladimir Putin upon my shoulders and singing 'He's a jolly good fellow.'

Have a nice day.

[TBF]

50. Can you give an example of someone

who carries "the mantle for Putin"?

I've come across several folks on this site who are not happy with the aggressive behavior in Ukraine from either side (because working class people live in Ukraine too - although you made it clear you are only interested in Americans). I have seen very few extolling the virtues of Putin.

[anti partisan]

19. When one side has to engage in ad hominems (see: "Putin contingent"), they usually are afraid of..

debating issues head-on.

The other one I've seen resurface is "anti-American", which I thought was reserved for people who opposed the Iraq War during the Bush years. Apparently it's making it's way back and now means anyone who opposes the American leadership's line on anything. And if that's what being "anti-American" is, then I'm a proud anti-American, even though I care deeply about America, the country in which I reside!

[geek tragedy]

27. There are people openly supporting

Putin's military intervention in and invasion of Ukraine. Had they expressed such support of similar actions by Bush they would have been run out of here.

[bvar22]

33. Many Democrats here at DU, and in our Party Leadership....

...cheered when American Tanks rolled into Baghdad.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

53. They did?

I remember DU being a refuge from that insanity back then. Anyone who cheered that would have been booted from this site.

So I'm going to challenge you to prove your claim.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

182. Waiting for you to provide some evidence of DUers supporting Bush's invasion of Iraq.

You can't. You probably weren't here then. I was. What you say is total bullshit.

[U4ikLefty]

201. Um, bvar22 has been here since 2001....longer than you.

I have been here as long as you & I remember there posters on DU2 clearly for the invasion.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

207. There were no posters favoring the invasion

Put up or shut up.

[Scootaloo]

52. Yes? Who? Where?

[geek tragedy]

66. From my conversations this afternoon:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=886117

Also, we have outright fascists here who are peddling a pro-Putin, Russian fascist hate/Holocaust denial site* as the go-to source for news about Ukraine.

The blog is the vineyardsaker--and it's being promoted by Team Putin here on an almost daily basis.

[Tarheel_Dem]

84. I hadn't seen that, but that is disgusting. Looks like Obama haters & Putin peddlers have found....

something in common. "Fascism".

[SidDithers]

85. +1. The use of vineyardsaker is fucking disgusting...nt

Sid

[Scootaloo]

92. Can you show me where the blog is being sourced on DU?

[OilemFirchen]

95. Coy is a bad color for you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vineyardsaker&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl

[Scootaloo]

97. Hardly coy

I don't often feel like i should do the legwork to prove the claims of other people I'm engaging, is all

But alright, that appears to increase the pooty-pooter counter by... two! We're up to six-ish now! C'mon guys, can you break double digits with this? c'moooon show me the Putin-love!

[OilemFirchen]

98. A poster on another thread boasted of 15-20.

Don't break an ankle.

[Scootaloo]

102. Don't plan to

[geek tragedy]

96. Do a site search for:

vineyardsaker.blogspot.com

It's a very good tell who plays for Team Fascist.

[Scootaloo]

99. Oh hell geek, there's LOTS of tells for that one

Most of them way more unambiguous than sourcing a blog with a seven-year depth. But yeah, the guy above beat you to it. Like I said, looks like we net two more pooterfish out of that bring us up to a number that is at least somewhat similar to something between four and six, depending.

[OilemFirchen]

110. How many qualifies as a "contingent"?

Please try to be accurate. Your answer will count toward your grade.

[Scootaloo]

111. Oh, two, by the word's definition

My interest here is seeing if the number and impact is actually worth the constant frothing panic expressed over it and broad condemnation of DU'ers.

So far as I can see, the mass of pooters does not actually support hte volume of ranting about them.

[OilemFirchen]

114. "constant frothing panic"

[Scootaloo]

115. Oh, you want to gif-spar?

[Puglover]

167. I am really not trying to suck up to you.

But it is SO fucking refreshing to read your posts that cut through the hyperbolic horse shit. Good for you for having the patience. I lost any desire to engage this nonsense a long time ago.

[Behind the Aegis]

155. LBH...some agree with you.

How sad.

[Behind the Aegis]

157. We happen to be seeing the same threads.

At this hour, the yellow folder only pops up a few times.

[OilemFirchen]

30. Why would anyone be "afraid" to debate on an anyonymous web forum?

That's a pretty common accusation among right-wingers, and it's always been a head-scratcher. One sees it here, on occasion, and it's just as silly.

What the fuck is there to be "afraid" of?

[BainsBane]

20. I find it the single most inconceivable political opinion I've encountered

I can see no ideological basis for it. The bizarre thing is some insist there is something leftist about him and their support for him, almost as though they don't know Russia is no longer socialist.

[PeaceNikki]

22. because Snowden.

[KittyWampus]

165. Thank You. I honestly try to avoid threads about Snowden or mentioning him at all-

DU'ers tend to fall into two sides when they hear that name and threads turn into mutual silly slap-fests.

But there are/were a substantial number of DU'ers ready to cut Putin and Russia some slack because of Snowden.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. He's actually extremely conservative if placed in US politics. nt

[BainsBane]

25. Of course

He's an authoritarian, RW quasi-dictator.

[amandabeech]

122. For awhile he was absolutely beloved on Freehorseapples.

They love them some authoritarians.

There's a still a pretty good sized ex-military crowd there, and they've pretty much out-argued the Putinistas now.

[Autumn]

24. It's a big world. There are Russians who like him. There are people here who like Obama

It's a big world. The view doesn't all end where we can't see.

[TwilightGardener]

56. It's a big world. But this is a website for the American Democratic party, and for

progressives, unless Skinner changed something. (That's why there are "people here who like Obama", you see) I see nothing progressive in supporting, excusing and defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine, do you?

[Autumn]

79. Well I for one would rather support Putin over the Republican party

but Putin is nothing to me. I have seen many invasions and I don't think any of them are progressive and certainly none have been excusable, that includes the invasion done by our country. Yes this is a site for the American Democratic party and Putin is neither a Democrat or a Republican so I don't see what your post is going on about.
If some people here think there might be someting they like about another world leader I can't see how that against this wesites TOS. Just as you are free to hate Putin others are free to not hate Putin

[TwilightGardener]

94. It's neither the Democratic party position or the progressive/left position to support

what Pooty is doing. And yet some posters here constantly bring forth material (essentially, propaganda) to defend that country's actions. I think we had a North Korean defender for a while, and she's gone--some things simply can't be justified and run counter to this site's expressed purposes. Also, I think it's pretty fucking weird to support another country over one's own, regardless of the politicians in charge.

[Autumn]

108. Life is weird.

[TwilightGardener]

109. Not really.

[pinto]

126. ???

[Autumn]

171. You don't get the idea that some people in Russia or the US may just like their leaders?

??? Elected or not.

[JaydenD]

31. I think it's related to Snowden/Greenwald.

Snowden said that Russia was leader in human rights, or some such nonsense. Snowden and Greenwald extremists anti-NSA fans now feel they have to defend anything Russia or they are betraying Snowden.

[Tarheel_Dem]

89. +1! Nailed It! It really is just that simple for some of the Putin boosters here.

The Snowden fan club has lost damn near all the principles they used to espouse.

[Live and Learn]

158. Oh please, I think it is more about being lied to your

entire life and having to crawl under desks in fear of the "cold war" and "commies" that want to kill you as a child. Just to find out that your own government employs the same techniques they always accused the "commies" of using.

I don't believe anyone here thinks Putin is the someone to idolize, neither do most of us believe we should idolize Obama. We simply applaud when we think they are right and criticize when we think they are wrong.

I really don't get any attempt to portray anyone as evil, especially without attempting to understand motivations. From what I see, Snowden has benefited very little so what do you think his motivation was if not what he says it was (to inform people)?

[TorchTheWitch]

203. yep

That's all it is pretty much.

[Scootaloo]

37. Liiiike who? Where?

I keep seeing the accusations of "pootie-poot love" but I never actually see the love.

[Cali_Democrat]

51. One of the posters here who posts nothing but RT articles

Never seen him before?

He's pretty hard to miss.

[Scootaloo]

54. Not sure I would call him "Putin contingent"

His position seems to be more akin to "loyal opposition" than actual support for Putin.

But, okay, let's give you a point, since you stretched so hard to score it. That's one. Who else?

[Cali_Democrat]

63. Another one whose name rhymes with armadillo

When MH17 went down, he was spreading rumors about how Ukrraine actually tried to target Putin's plane.

Funny shit...

[Scootaloo]

73. Three! Three pooty-pooters! Ah-ah-ah!

Keep 'em coming

[Cali_Democrat]

75. Oh I've got plenty more I could name....

Unfortunately there is a contingent of DUers who have been alert stalking me recently so I'd rather not give them ammunition.

They even posted on another website about me. They're obsessed.

I'm a marked man apparently which is odd because I'm such a nice guy.

[Scootaloo]

77. Does your list have 205 names on it, Cali_Democrat?

[Cali_Democrat]

87. I have here in my hand a list of 214

[KoKo]

107. Are you saying they are "Unwelcome on DU?"

What exactly ARE you saying?

[BainsBane]

127. Anyone who takes RT propaganda as fact

qualifies as part of the Putin contingent.

[Scootaloo]

129. Well, what if RT is actually reporting fact?

if CNN does it on occasion, I'm sure RT slips in the occasional factual story.

Insufficient criteria there. it's like saying anyone who cites FOX is a bushbot.

[BainsBane]

130. Positing one crap media outlet to justify another is far from convincing

People can read decent news sources. Why would anytime waste their time reading propaganda unless they want to promote propaganda? I don't watch cable news. I sure as hell am not going to read Putin's propaganda network. Some things are bound to be accurate but the people who do cite RT do not care. They assume it is truthful simply because it opposes the US.

You are better than that. There is no excuse for that sort of nonsense.

[Scootaloo]

132. point being...

i don't go "AHA! You posted from (source)! Yo uare clearly an utterly reprehensible human being MWAHAHAHA!"

...Maybe it's due to long exposure to the I/P forum, where pretty much every source is questionable at best and increasingly shittier the more op-ed it gets, i guess.I judge the stories posted, more than the people posting them... Until it gets to the point of a person posting so much obvious blatant bullshit, and even then I end up more like "why are you doing that. You breathe without cue cards so you can't really be that dumb!"

[BainsBane]

134. It has nothing to do with being a reprehensible human being

And I said nothing of the sort. The OP is about a Putin contingency, not character or essential goodness.

We all look for patterns in posting. There are some people in whom I place no credibility because of repeated and persistent promotion of propaganda or wacko stuff. They could volunteer at a homeless shelter every week and take in all kinds of stray animals. They mind be wonderful people. Whether I consider their posting credible is a separate issue.

[Scootaloo]

136. I didn't mean you in particular

However, look at the characteristics the OP and other buckleheads slather on alongsidetheir accusations of being a "Putin lover." if you think there's no commentary on character involved there, then I'm really not sure what to say.

[BainsBane]

139. Considering how some of them have reacted to my own situation

I'm not terribly worried about whether someone things poorly of their character, to tell you the truth.

[Scootaloo]

144. And considering stuff i've seen from the torch-and-pitchfork crowd...

I'm kind of in the same opinion, pointed the opposite way.

Personally, I'm not real invested in the Russia / Ukraine thing. They're both run by big bags of assholes for one - Putin's aggression doesn't make Ukraine sainted, after all - and frankly it's foregone. The US isn't going to jump in, the EU isn't going to jump in, NATO can't jump in, the UN could, but with its permanent veto in the SC - and should it abstain, China has its back - Russia's not going to feel anything. Sanctions are more of a tickle for Russia, and Russia has enough economic strength to retaliate in kind, so they're an iffy proposition. So what's going to happen is that Russia keeps Crimea, Novorussia becomes a thing (and probably gets annexed), the EU and NATO pat each others back for "defending" nations Russia had no sights on in the first place, Ukraine is smaller and its Chocolate king president finds a way to make ojut like a bandit either way. Then probably vanishes off to the Maldives or something.

I mean really, there's... Not n alternative there, barring NATO initiating war or something. Which i think we can agree, we should hope doesn't happen (and equally agreeable, isn't going to)

My thing is, I'm just fucking sick of the wall-eyed, froth-mouthed accusations of massive amounts of "Putin-love" on DU. The accusers have wrangled up six people. Two of whom I'm really tempted to just write off, one due to inactive status, the other because he's basically just trying to play devil's advocate, from what i understand. So four to six people. The roots of this massive, hyperventilating panic over a "putinista contingent" swamping DU.

Six people. Look, I don't think i need to point to you where six people stand, in the context of problems facing DU. You already know what sort of shit is going on around here, and even if these people are all waving little russian flags as they post, it's pretty trivial shit compared to everything else.

[BainsBane]

146. The one on inactive status baited the jury several times in a day

no one could get away with that. As for the torch and pitchfork crowd, they are based on Discussionist aiming straight for me. You'll have to excuse me if I don't consider referring to people who show uncritical support for Russian foreign policy as the "Putin contingency" or "Putin lovers" as serious as repeated rape threats several times a day.

I'm just fucking sick of the idea that people can't handle differences of opinion without demonizing others and targeting them personally. I really don't care that you feel outraged that someone objects to your views or those of your friends. That's a pretty minor thing to have to deal with, and you should be able to handle it.

[Scootaloo]

149. I think we just missed each other there BainsBane

As for the torch and pitchfork crowd, they are based on Discussionist aiming straight for me.

I was actually referring to the "GET THE POOTIE-POOTERS!" mob when i mentioned the "torches and pitchforks crowd". What i mean is, I've seen some real unpleasant shit from that sector myself, so, I understand your antipathy, even if I'm looking at a different bunch than you are.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't consider referring to people who show uncritical support for Russian foreign policy as the "Putin contingency" or "Putin lovers" as serious as repeated rape threats several times a day.

I was actually making the point that six people who maybe cheer Putin are really small tacos compared to exactly that, among other serious issues. I pointed out to some other posters that if they spent as much time looking at the misogyny and racism on DU, as they do trying to root out these people who are insufficiently hateful of Russia, they could accomplish some good stuff.

Again, i think we have the same point, just coming from different directions.

I'm just fucking sick of the idea that people can't handle differences of opinion without demonizing others and targeting them personally. I really don't care that you feel outraged that someone objects to your views or those of your friends. That's a pretty minor thing to have to deal with, and you should be able to handle it.

Again, pretty sure I was saying the same thing when I was pointing out how tiresome I find the witch-hunting over this ultimately silly-ass issue of "who loves Putin" or whatever the hell it is. There are actual problems with this community, as you succinctly noted in this post, and that... really isn't one of them, in my opinion.

[Union Scribe]

183. They shouldn't be uncritically accepted as true

but neither should the Kyiv Post or press releases from Kiev's military. Only a fool would think that in a conflict only one side uses propaganda or lies.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

55. There is one inactive DUer who shall remain nameless.

I'd post her tweets on the Twitter page that she herself publicized on DU, but apparently that's verboten.

And reading her tweets, it clearly crosses the line from merely being a useful idiot to actual slovenly Putin love and adoration.

But that's all I have to say about that....for now.

[Scootaloo]

58. Okay, we're up to a possible two, one of whom is inactive...

Clearly, the fate of DU hangs at a precarious balance!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

61. There was also this gem:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024677598

This recent situation in Crimea, I believe, is a godsend. First, it has permitted the situation here in Kiev to assume a certain level of normalcy. And I've been thinking recently that how much better the 20th century would have been if, within the first couple of months of Hitler's rule in Germany, someone had decided it was time to put an end to his nonsense and went ahead and invaded Germany. Maybe people in the states don't learn from history, but it certainly looks like Mr. Putin has.

Just sayin'.

[Scootaloo]

67. Oh yes, that's a real gem of a thread

all those "good progressives" laying into the guy for not being the proper ethnicity. Wowee.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

72. The guy lauded Putin for "knowing his history" and invading Crimea.

All because the then-interim Ukrainian government was supposedly the second coming of the Third Reich.

And that was hardly the first time he raced to Vlad's defense.

[Scootaloo]

76. Okay, doesn't make your "team"'s response any less vile or reprehensible though

Kay, we're up to a possible four - One who' actually in Ukraine, another who doesn't post here anymore, a third who is more of a naysayer than a proponent, and a fourth who apparently shares name traits with a small shelled mammal.

Quite the "contingent" so far. keep 'em coming. i want to see if they outnumber the DU posters who participated in a violence-endorsing racist hate site that referred to other DU'ers with names like "dumberthandogshit" and "Violent_C*nt." Oh! That reminds me! if any of these pooty-pooters are group hosts or MIR, be sure to point that out too, thanks.

[TwilightGardener]

100. Are Mods above the rules? Now that is interesting. I hadn't heard that.

[Cali_Democrat]

71. Hey Scoot

Would you show your face on DU after putting out a tweet like this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Catherina_News/status/484479784228257792

[Scootaloo]

74. well, that depends

Am i allowed to photoshop it into Putin making a "dat ass" face while looking at a small donkey? 'Cause really, you gotta admit Putin is a huge blessing to the shooping profession. I mean the bear-riding alone!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

78. Aaaaaand bingo.

What a fine specimen of humanity that person is.

[Jamaal510]

153. Um...WTF did I just see?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

164. A sad, pathetic specimen of humanity. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

173. You've gotta be kidding me. Is that our Catherina? WTF?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

181. There's a lot more ugliness where that came from.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5454760

You'll have to excuse the hide on the post. Apparently the truth hurt a few people's feelings.

[Tarheel_Dem]

185. I'm sorry Tommy, that was a bad hide. Twitter is a public forum. What was the problem?

The jury system here is the luck of the draw, and largely depends on the time of day. That's some f'd up stuff. That's the kind of crap that eventually brought down BetterBelieveIt, who had a huge anti-Obama following here at DU; only to find that IRL, she was an undercover Republican troll who duped a lot of gullible folk.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

186. They claimed it couldn't be verified as her Twitter account and therefore was an unfair attack.

Even though she herself publicized it as her account:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Catherina/718

And other people publicized it as well. Including on that particular thread.

I don't get it either.

[msanthrope]

187. Thank you for this link....as with the others you helpfully provided in the worst hidden

post on DU3, I will be using it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

188. I agree with MADem and the others who are calling for Admin to take a look at the hide, and jury.

It's a damn shame that the Pro-Putin/Anti-US forces have so much cache here. It's disturbing, to say the least.

[SidDithers]

174. Wow...

Sid

[Union Scribe]

176. Nice to know you're keeping tabs

even on people who aren't current posters. Thanks for keeping us safe from different opinions.

[OilemFirchen]

194. That's weird.

I thought he just linked to her Tweet, thereby exposing her "different opinions" to the faint-of-heart.

Do you have a meme-regurgitator implanted in your brain?

[Number23]

202. Especially considering that a poster in this thread keeps screeching "whooo?? Whooo?? WHOOOO??"

like a drunken owl and then when provided with post after post, name after name still somehow doesn't see that there is a contingent of pro-Putin posters here on DU.

Even though one of the biggest ones ran -- not walked, RAN -- to this thread to out herself REPEATEDLY as if everyone wasn't already aware of her many shortcomings.

[Vattel]

41. Lame. Amost no one here thinks Putin is a good leader.

Nearly everyone supports some of his actions, e.g., helping to negotiate the removal of chemical weapons from Syria.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

42. I'm sure if we scour the 8 years of George W. Bush we can find some action of his we support as well

I'll agree that there are very few Putin lovers on here, but there are indeed a few.

[Vattel]

43. I've never seen one but I don't deny that maybe a few exist.

Not really worth posting about, though.

[TwilightGardener]

60. Well...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=885966

[HuckleB]

46. DU is like anywhere.

Well, back in the early days, curiosity and questioning usually won the day, but people have tired of having to challenge themselves. It's easier to buy into fear, whether it's Putin, anti-GMO BS, or any other nonsense.

[blm]

62. Putin is using Bush-Rove playbook and appeals to TeaParty and duped lefties.

Yikes - what a combo. So many TeaParty Taliban post admiring screeds about Putin and it is is sickening to see some duped lefties following suit and using DU as a platform to do it.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

68. Actually Putin wrote some of the Bush-Rove playbook

That stunt of landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln was inspired by Putin who's been shown flying military jets as part of his macho image.

[Tarheel_Dem]

175. "duped lefties following suit and using DU as a platform to do it."

[TwilightGardener]

64. In all seriousness, they don't even have the cover of left-wing ideology

anymore, they're defending naked military aggression while suggesting that anyone who dislikes what Putin is doing is pro-war. It's breathtaking, the projection.

[Dems to Win]

69. Links or STFU

How many threads do we need punching at strawmen?

If you disagree with something someone has posted, the adult response is to reply to their post, explaining your disagreement.

The immature, self-indulgent response is to start a new thread complaining about those anonymous 'others.'

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

70. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025479958

[Dems to Win]

83. Robert Parry is an excellent journalist

I greatly appreciate his efforts to report the truth of the Ukraine situation.

quote from the link you provide:

Yet, the once-acknowledged – though soon forgotten – reality was that the crisis was provoked last year by the European Union proposing an association agreement with Ukraine while U.S. neocons and other hawkish politicos and pundits envisioned using the Ukraine gambit as a way to undermine Putin inside Russia.

The plan was even announced by U.S. neocons such as National Endowment for Democracy President Carl Gershman who took to the op-ed page of the Washington Post nearly a year ago to call Ukraine “the biggest prize” and an important interim step toward eventually toppling Putin in Russia.

*********end quote

Nope, I don't see any Pootie-love in that link. Quoting real editorials published in the Washington Post and directing our attention to the actions of the EU looks like a journalist / columnist doing his job.

This is my last post in this pointless thread. I'm going to do my part to let it fade into oblivion.

[gordianot]

82. Was it just two years ago many Conservatives complained about Obama comments to Putin on open mike

Since there is no cooperation look where it has gone. The enemy of your enemy is seldom your friend.

[SidDithers]

86. The fringe left has hitched their wagon to Putin...

because he can be counted on to be anti-West on almost every issue.

Sid

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. +1

[AgingAmerican]

88. Putin is a fascist

I assume many who defend his policies are of Russian decent? A lot of Strawman arguments coming from them.

[Blue_Tires]

91. For some DUers, Putin's sins were washed away

Once he gave asylum to Ed Snowden (who had the nerve to actually *praise* Russia's human rights record)...It's also worth noting that Glenn Greenwald, Julian Assange, Trevor Timm and the rest of that clique have been notably silent if not shamelessly spinning reports of human rights abuses/invasions of privacy/press freedom crackdowns in that country, which helps reinforce that mindset among many of Snowden's supporters...


Other DUers got that way because they believe everything they read on Russia Today as God's truth...So Putin has been an innocent bystander with clean hands while the United States and their EU puppets, jealous of Russia's resurgence, conspire to denigrate a great leader and his people and throw the planet prematurely into World War III...Because clearly there wouldn't be any problems if the United States and their EU puppets didn't stage a coup against a popular and innocent sitting president...


Other DUers (the really ignorant ones, imo) see Putin as some kind of heroic leftist bulwark standing against U.S. expansionism the way Castro and Chavez did in years past...


But I think deep down, Putin's fans on the right and left are full of admiration and secretly envious at how easily Putin can get things done by force of will, circumvent any international obstacle, and wish for some magical world where Obama could do the same...But they forget that Obama has a much more diverse populace to cater to, that Obama can't silence dissent and singlehandedly control his national media through the threat of kidnapping and murder, and that Putin isn't hampered by an obstructionist congress who can't agree on the color of the sky...

My only consolation is sooner or later Putin will do something so heinous and unforgivable that even support from his truest believers on the left will evaporate

[cwydro]

93. Putin is bad news. nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

105. Embarrassingly enough the fringe left has always had Soviet sympathizers

Hating the west comes first, it's just that simple.

[Cha]

113. Too bad they can't live in Russia.. and I mean that sincerely.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

123. As someone who has been to Castro's Cuba, Mugabe's Zimbabwe and St. Hugo's Venezuela

I always find these Che hoodie wearing morons who probably don't even have a passport preaching the virtues of the flavor of the week third world dictator a special kind of ridiculous.

[Tarheel_Dem]

189. "Too bad they can't live in Russia.. and I mean that sincerely".

[eridani]

116. Since when does being against imperialism imply being pro anything else?

If Russia had a military budget larger than ours and 800+ military bases around the world, I'd be attacking them online daily.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

117. Isn't imperialism what the invasion of the Ukraine amounts to?

Geez the mental gymnastics displayed lately is quite amazing.

[eridani]

118. Who is invading who?

The west used violence against demonstrations by easterners.

Burning Ukraine's Protesters Alive

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/23596-burning-ukraines-protesters-alive

In Ukraine, a grisly new strategy – bringing in neo-Nazi paramilitary forces to set fire to occupied buildings in the country’s rebellious southeast – appears to be emerging as a favored tactic as the coup-installed regime in Kiev seeks to put down resistance from ethnic Russians and other opponents.

The technique first emerged on May 2 in the port city of Odessa when pro-regime militants chased dissidents into the Trade Unions Building and then set it on fire. As some 40 or more ethnic Russians were burned alive or died of smoke inhalation, the crowd outside mocked them as red-and-black Colorado potato beetles, with the chant of “Burn, Colorado, burn.” Afterwards, reporters spotted graffiti on the building’s walls containing Swastika-like symbols and honoring the “Galician SS,” the Ukrainian adjunct to the German SS in World War II.

This tactic of torching an occupied building occurred again on May 9 in Mariupol, another port city, as neo-Nazi paramilitaries – organized now as the regime’s “National Guard” – were dispatched to a police station that had been seized by dissidents, possibly including police officers who rejected a new Kiev-appointed chief. Again, the deployment of the “National Guard” was followed by burning the building and killing a significant but still-undetermined number of people inside. (Early estimates of the dead range from seven to 20.)

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

119. Sorry I don't take regurgiatated RT propaganda.

[eridani]

120. The source it not RT, and there are plenty of other references n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

170. It doesn't matter if it's not RT. It's a subjective and highly inaccurate narrative of events.

What happened in Odessa on May 2nd was horrible and tragic. However, it was nothing like what the pro-Russian crowd has attempted to spin it to have been.

If you were to believe them, neo-fascist, neo-Nazi pro-Ukrainians marched over to the Trade Union unprovoked and burned "anti-fascists" alive because they wanted to re-enact some decades old pogrom of days gone by.

The reality of the situation is much more complex.

The pro-Russian activists had been using the Trade Union building as a de facto headquarters. Several days before the May 2nd riots, the pro-Russian crowd had demonstrated peacefully in Odessa. They were not attacked. On the morning of May 2nd, the pro-Ukrainian activists also planned a peaceful march in the center of Odessa. However, they were attacked. First, they were attacked with sticks and bottles. After both sides had hunkered down, gunmen wearing St. George ribbons (a WWII era symbol appropriated by the pro-Russian separatists) started shooting at the pro-Ukrainian protesters from the rooftops, wounding and killing several of them. (I happened to be watching a live news feed of events as this unfolded)

This enraged the pro-Ukrainian side, who then went over to the Trade Union building where the pro-Russian side had taken up camp. There were reports of Molotov cocktails being thrown both at and from the building. Ultimately, the building did catch fire and tragically several dozen individuals inside were killed.

It was a horrible incident, but it had all the markings of mob violence gone awry, with both sides to blame in escalating events to their bloody incident. It was not anything as simple as "neo-Nazis attacking peaceful anti-facists unprovoked" as the Russian state media and all their parrots would have you think.

[eridani]

192. So, who died and who lived? n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

193. People from both sides. nt

[eridani]

195. Right--and in the burning building were..?

And outside of it were?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

196. Cute. You know you can actually post real photos and videos of that day's tragic events...

...(I mean there are plenty out there, and they don't make either side look particularly good), or you can be disingenuous about it.

I see you've chosen the latter.

[eridani]

198. The easterners are at home. The westerners are not. End of story n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

199. What?

[sabrina 1]

148. Is there an RT link here somewhere? I'd like to see it, they have been dead right on so many issues

over the past few years. Great reporters, actual real reporters, mostly stringers from various other news agencies but extremely impressive, compared to our own 'stenographers' who never leave the studio and read the memos, (thanks colbert for that).

The above link is good also. How do you feel about the US involvement there before the Coup and now that govt bombing its own people who only want to have a say in NOT becoming enslaved to the IMF?

The entire world, outside the western propaganda media, is reporting that the Kiev govt is collapsing, that the country is now hopelessly broke, even those in Western Ukr are now protesting the Kiev Govt and mothers demanding their sons NOT be sent to kill their fellow Ukrainians.

And just when they are out of money, see Shock Doctrine if you haven't already, it is playing out in Ukr perfectly, the IMF is offering one of their infamous loans. Not nearly enough to pay their bills, and I guess the people there are having second thoughts about what happened to their country.

McCain was over there posing with the neo nazi coup leader. Wth is HE doing running from Syria, where he posed with a terrorist, well a 'protester', even Fuks Noose was worried about that one, then to Ukr. Is he the 'messenger' in these places where wars seem to break out after he visits?

[reorg]

151. they are ignorant

and want to remain ignorant, perhaps they feel safer this way.

http://www.alternet.org/world/massacre-odessa-inevitable-result-government-full-ukranian-neo-nazis

[JEB]

125. WTF....Du'ers spreading Neocon propaganda

about Ukraine?

[Vine Gatherer]

128. The neocons are focused on Iraq, Iran and Syria

And several of them have expressed admiration for Putin's "decisive leadership."

[JEB]

131. Neocons shit in any punch bowl.

They never met a war they didn't want to fight. They conflate Russia with USSR. Russia operates in a crony capitalist system, similar to the USA.

[BainsBane]

208. So if one questions Heir Putin

That makes them a neocon?

I guess it would be too much to people to actually display any awareness of what that word actually means.

[NCTraveler]

160. Some of the Putin contingent here are very obvious.

Putin stands in opposition to Obama. They stand in opposition to Obama. They feel they must find a way to support Putin without supporting him. A couple posters here don't make any sense at all with their support because Putin stands against everything they believe in. Amazing how far some will twist to oppose Obama.

[kelliekat44]

169. I call them (those who twist to the extreme) "pretzels." The knot in the center of their pretzel

is only one thing: hate for President Obama.

[edhopper]

206. More Putin apologists on my thread here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025487361