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La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:33 PM Aug 2014

A short rant about the need for victims to be perfect & react perfectly to violence and oppression

I am sick of hearing about how victims and victimized communities should react to violence and oppression. The reality is when faced with violence and oppression and constant discrimination, most of us break social mores. However, i really hate how much the media focuses on these 'riots' or 'looting' rather than what instigated these transgressions. Also, in my experience the media grossly exaggerates about how bad things are (remember, Katrina) when covering the transgressions of the victimized community.

I literally can't stand it.

Victims and victimized communities do not need to be perfect to have certain inalienable civil rights.


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A short rant about the need for victims to be perfect & react perfectly to violence and oppression (Original Post) La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 OP
One broken shop window is a much more "sexy" news item than a dozen vigils arcane1 Aug 2014 #1
yeah. just like focusing on the naked person at the gay pride parades La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #2
I am sick of it too rbrnmw Aug 2014 #3
it's understandable to measure that emotional reaction against what's being protested bigtree Aug 2014 #4
I'm sick of people tacitly defending looting & rioting Bonx Aug 2014 #5
LOL. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #6
Alrighty then. Bonx Aug 2014 #12
Nobody here is defending looting and rioting.[n/t] Maedhros Aug 2014 #26
Double LOL.... Little Star Aug 2014 #8
Naive to think that others would also condemn criminal activity ? Bonx Aug 2014 #14
Did you condemn the criminal activity of the cop who murdered malaise Aug 2014 #50
Exactly! Let's hear the media condemn the shooting of an unarmed teenager.. mountain grammy Aug 2014 #58
You have to wonder if they don't have agents provocateurs malaise Aug 2014 #59
"valid." Sure. Not a drop of subjectivity in that word. RadiationTherapy Aug 2014 #10
So the people of Ferguson should pool their money and hire a lawyer? MindPilot Aug 2014 #13
Non sequitur-ville Bonx Aug 2014 #16
Apparently that was your destination. MindPilot Aug 2014 #22
Well today is your lucky day! The OP is not doing anything close to that. arcane1 Aug 2014 #15
.. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #18
I totally agree! el_bryanto Aug 2014 #17
That makes no sense Bonx Aug 2014 #19
So you say agreeing with you makes no sense? I guess I can't argue with that. nt el_bryanto Aug 2014 #21
.. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #20
"A riot is the language of the unheard" ~ Martin Luther King, Jr. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #23
+10000000000000000000000000 Little Star Aug 2014 #68
You may be missing the OP's point leftstreet Aug 2014 #25
I remember that. That was so clearly racist. cui bono Aug 2014 #29
That was unbelievable, I remember it well. sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #43
I say that every time my tax dollars go to Corporations! tenderfoot Aug 2014 #28
I don't think the OP defends it, but is stating that the media covers that rather than the root cui bono Aug 2014 #32
Yeah well I got sick of some DU'ers using a black child's grades to justify his murder Scootaloo Aug 2014 #36
yup. nt La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #37
How do you feel about the cops repeatedly brutalizing and killing African Americans in this country? sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #38
A Dream Deferred.... please read it and try to understand Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #47
Just out of curiosity what is a valid excuse for a riot? Exultant Democracy Aug 2014 #48
I'll just bet that it's when the BLM asks you to pay your grazing fees. Chellee Aug 2014 #60
When the disfranchised voice has nothing more to lose, don't look for a rational or valid response. LanternWaste Aug 2014 #53
Especially since a little to the South is a place called Normandy. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #57
See also: rape victims XemaSab Aug 2014 #7
yup. this applies to a large number of conflicts. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #9
Day-um. Orrex Aug 2014 #24
I understand what you're getting at but I don't think it's really the same thing. cui bono Aug 2014 #27
Since when do racists need ammunition? XemaSab Aug 2014 #30
I completely agree. cui bono Aug 2014 #33
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #62
Really? XemaSab Aug 2014 #64
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #65
love you MIRT! irisblue Aug 2014 #67
Racists don't need to be given ammunition BlindTiresias Aug 2014 #34
I agree. cui bono Aug 2014 #35
I was going to say this redqueen Aug 2014 #40
K&R me b zola Aug 2014 #11
Look over here, look over here... PowerToThePeople Aug 2014 #31
Right/white wingers always make crud out of these things. Remember how they predicted riots Hoyt Aug 2014 #39
not just right wingers, though. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #49
Nobody's perfect--so you can't expect victims to react "perfectly" to violence and Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #41
du rec. xchrom Aug 2014 #42
the looters are victims?? n/t Bacchus4.0 Aug 2014 #44
Are you from the US? Do you understand the systematic racism that these people face in the US? Exultant Democracy Aug 2014 #52
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #45
I expect people to behave in a reasonable (not perfect) manner Taitertots Aug 2014 #46
What they need to do is take it to the suburbs, golf courses, and gated communities because TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #72
Oh, you want a more unreasonable response than just rioting/looting Taitertots Aug 2014 #74
Time and time again clyrc Aug 2014 #51
They like to act like property is more important than people. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #54
Like the property can't be replaced! Quayblue Aug 2014 #55
Makes sense if you believe there are too many of "them" anyway. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #56
that has been a pattern since the days of slavery. nt La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #70
Rioting when there is no satisfactory recourse against oppression is human, even if counter- Shrike47 Aug 2014 #61
I have always liked this poem by Melvin Tolson ashling Aug 2014 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #66
kicked La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #69
kicked Blue_Tires Aug 2014 #71
It's bothering me a lot too. Everything's backwards from how it should be. Avalux Aug 2014 #73
 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
1. One broken shop window is a much more "sexy" news item than a dozen vigils
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:41 PM
Aug 2014

Especially when trying to create a narrative that not-so-subtly says "the victim had it coming"

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
2. yeah. just like focusing on the naked person at the gay pride parades
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:43 PM
Aug 2014

and ignoring the dozens of civil rights groups/religious groups etc.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
3. I am sick of it too
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:53 PM
Aug 2014

They try to demonize the resistance by showing things like the QT mart instead of the peaceful vigils. They try to besmirch the character of the dead victims who can't defend themselves. I look for a George Zimmerman type excuse for the shooting the cop will have marks supposedly inflicted by Mike Brown.

bigtree

(85,920 posts)
4. it's understandable to measure that emotional reaction against what's being protested
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 02:55 PM
Aug 2014

. . .As the family said, shortly after the killing, violent and destructive reactions would not be in line with the wishes of the victim.

However, those reactions are a predictable and almost inevitable consequence of police brutality directed toward a particular community or racial (or otherwise) group of citizens acting within the law.

During the civil rights protests in the '50's and '60's we could see the same violent reactions, and there evolved a decidedly more peaceful, non-violent response from other quarters which was in very direct and active conflict with each others tactics and expressions of protest.

What evolved, and what I believed prevailed for the better, was a leadership (mainly from the churches) which developed and adhered to non-violent protests which provided a useful and ultimately productive contrast with the government's and individual violent acts of brutality and discrimination.

I hope they can organize that kind of response.

Bonx

(2,041 posts)
5. I'm sick of people tacitly defending looting & rioting
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:01 PM
Aug 2014


There's no valid excuse for the looting & rioting in Ferguson. None.

mountain grammy

(26,573 posts)
58. Exactly! Let's hear the media condemn the shooting of an unarmed teenager..
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:24 PM
Aug 2014

along with condemning all violence. Let's not forget the violence that sparked this.

malaise

(267,843 posts)
59. You have to wonder if they don't have agents provocateurs
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:28 PM
Aug 2014

who start these riots to obfuscate from the real crime of murder by cop

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
13. So the people of Ferguson should pool their money and hire a lawyer?
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:22 PM
Aug 2014

And then the terrorists in blue will magically change after seeing the error of their ways?

Yeah, those are some colorful unicorn farts right there.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
17. I totally agree!
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:24 PM
Aug 2014

Cops should be allowed to gun down whoever they like, and there is nothing more important than protecting property rights. The police are there to serve and protect the right kind of people, and if some of the wrong kind of people suffer some inconveniences that's a small price to pay.

Bryant.

leftstreet

(36,081 posts)
25. You may be missing the OP's point
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:41 PM
Aug 2014

In terms of attitudes and media coverage especially

Remember this?



cui bono

(19,926 posts)
29. I remember that. That was so clearly racist.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:53 PM
Aug 2014

I don't think that's the same thing as this though. That was a situation where people needed to get items for survival. The looting in a situation such as Ferguson is opportunistic. Now were the people doing it screwed by the system, by systemic racism? I'm sure of it, but it the stealing isn't directly related to the killing. I can understand destructive behavior coming out of anger, but stealing just because you can isn't making any statement about the cops murdering an innocent kid.

Doesn't excuse the way the media covers it, but gives media cover.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
32. I don't think the OP defends it, but is stating that the media covers that rather than the root
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:56 PM
Aug 2014

of the problem, which is what instigated it. The murder of an innocent kid by a cop.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
36. Yeah well I got sick of some DU'ers using a black child's grades to justify his murder
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:59 PM
Aug 2014

Windows can be replaced. People cannot. Get your fucking priorties straight.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
38. How do you feel about the cops repeatedly brutalizing and killing African Americans in this country?
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:11 PM
Aug 2014

I don't know, maybe it's me, but a broken window V a dead teenager?? No contest!

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
47. A Dream Deferred.... please read it and try to understand
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:25 PM
Aug 2014

how it relates to the OP.


A Dream Deferred
by Langston Hughes

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode?

Chellee

(2,086 posts)
60. I'll just bet that it's when the BLM asks you to pay your grazing fees.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:32 PM
Aug 2014

I doubt he was troubled by that unlawful activity.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
53. When the disfranchised voice has nothing more to lose, don't look for a rational or valid response.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:40 PM
Aug 2014

When the disfranchised voice has nothing more to lose, don't look for a rational or valid response-- as those rational and valid responses have to date, yielded them nothing.

That's not a defense... that's merely history. ,part II

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
7. See also: rape victims
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:14 PM
Aug 2014

Because if you don't act with a perfect mixture of rationality (immediately calling the police!) and upset (curl into a ball and cry for days!), then you probably weren't "really" raped.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
9. yup. this applies to a large number of conflicts.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:15 PM
Aug 2014

including gaza. gay prides/protests. occupy wallstreet type movements. our attitude to the poor overall.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
27. I understand what you're getting at but I don't think it's really the same thing.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:48 PM
Aug 2014

Rape victims aren't going out and breaking other laws. That's not how they are victimized again.

I can understand the breaking things, destructive behavior, that is an emotional response, a release of anger. But then when people run in and loot, that does not seem to be in direct relation to the anger over the shooting. The media obviously will focus on the sensationalist aspect and the easy aspect of it all, and the aspect that can shed more black people in a negative light without giving any context to it. The looting just gives ammunition to the racists and provides an excuse for the media to slant their coverage (not that they need one, they do it anyway).

That's why nonviolent protests are so powerful. It's clear who's in the wrong and it can't be spun.

Now, if there weren't so much poverty and everyone had a fair shake in this world perhaps people wouldn't feel the need to take an opportunity like that to steal, but that's a different issue than it being due to the killing of an innocent kid. Stealing isn't an organic outlet for anger.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
30. Since when do racists need ammunition?
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:53 PM
Aug 2014

Racism doesn't operate on logic, and there's NOTHING black people can do to make racists happy.

Hell, Barack Obama becomes the president of the United States of America and racists see it as a sign that black people are lazy, shiftless, uneducated grifters.

Black people don't owe racists shit.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
33. I completely agree.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:57 PM
Aug 2014

And when they are given no ammunition it exposes just how ugly it all is. That's why all the nonviolent protests of the civil rights movement were so powerful.

Response to XemaSab (Reply #30)

Response to XemaSab (Reply #64)

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
34. Racists don't need to be given ammunition
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:57 PM
Aug 2014

They have a fully formed and functional ammo factory running 24/7 in their twisted minds.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
31. Look over here, look over here...
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:55 PM
Aug 2014

Don't pay attention to our transgressions. Look what happened over here. OMG! We are so justified now....

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
39. Right/white wingers always make crud out of these things. Remember how they predicted riots
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:15 PM
Aug 2014

after Zimmerman walked after murdering Martin. They are just people filled with hatred.

Louisiana1976

(3,962 posts)
41. Nobody's perfect--so you can't expect victims to react "perfectly" to violence and
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:18 PM
Aug 2014

oppression. And I agree 100% that the media should focus on what instigates rioting and looting and shouldn't exaggerate how bad things are.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
52. Are you from the US? Do you understand the systematic racism that these people face in the US?
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:37 PM
Aug 2014

Being black in America literally means you have been born a victim of over 400 years of oppression. Do you understand what 400 years of oppression does at both the group and individual level?

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
46. I expect people to behave in a reasonable (not perfect) manner
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:23 PM
Aug 2014

Riots, looting.... Are not reasonable responses to the situation.

I'm sick of hearing about how we should excuse unreasonable actions because someone else did something unreasonable.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
72. What they need to do is take it to the suburbs, golf courses, and gated communities because
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 05:48 PM
Aug 2014

from your comments that there is not enough of certain skin in the game and going forward every time one of the precious right wing militia gets out of hand until folks like you stop deflecting, excusing, and encouraging more of the same.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
74. Oh, you want a more unreasonable response than just rioting/looting
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 11:51 AM
Aug 2014

B/C trying to destroy someone else's community is not a reasonable alternative to destroying your own.

clyrc

(2,299 posts)
51. Time and time again
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:36 PM
Aug 2014

When I lived in the UAE, I saw that when people think the laws aren't there to protect them, but instead they protect a privileged few, the people who feel unprotected don't see any advantage to following the rules. Why should they? Honestly, I could see their point. I think something like that is at play here. I'm not saying rioting is the right thing to do. But both sides have to follow the rules, and shooting a kid walking on the road is not following the law.

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
61. Rioting when there is no satisfactory recourse against oppression is human, even if counter-
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:34 PM
Aug 2014

productive. The police won't even release the name of the homicidal cop. When people have all that anger, it's going to go somewhere.

ashling

(25,771 posts)
63. I have always liked this poem by Melvin Tolson
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:50 PM
Aug 2014

Ostensibly about slavery and colonialism, I think it has some is applicable here as well

Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

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