I am the American left and I do not support fundamentalism in any religion.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

Nor do I support the meaningless killing of people because of their religion/ethnicity.

It is not a love that dares not speak its name. It is mere consistency in my beliefs.

I also am not a fool and don't get taken in by pink-washing an issue.

I bet I am not the only one.

[hifiguy]

1. Lioness,

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. ...

thanks!

[get the red out]

3. No, you're not the only one

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. ..

thanks

[gaspee]

4. Nope, not the only one

They think they're so clever by trying to paint people that way, but they are so transparent it's laughable.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. yup

[Zen Democrat]

7. Good bet. We are many and gaining strength.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Yep. K&R

[devils chaplain]

9. I have no idea what precipitated this thread...

But I can't disagree with the sentiments.

[el_bryanto]

10. It is a weird argument

But it's one that you have to stop halfway through in order for it to make any sense - and even then it doesn't really make any sense.

Bryant

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. i think the argument is simply this

"blah blah, terrible to women and gays. we should bomb". if you are against this, you are pro 'blah blah' who are terrible to women and gays.

[el_bryanto]

15. Well I get that - I remember the days of "effectively pro-Saddam"

But there's something more going on as well; they don't just claim that we excuse their crimes, but that we embrace them. That we don't just want to avoid killing them pointlessly (and more to the point avoid killing a lot of civilians and innocents in the process), but somehow we also want them to succeed, even though their stated goals and our stated goals are pretty well opposite.

Bryant

[Jackpine Radical]

54. Yer wiffus

er yer aginnus.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

56. ..

[m-lekktor]

12. pink washing is a pet peeve

sadly i have seen my fellow gays engage in it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. what i dont understand about pink washing is the notion

that bombing countries and killing many innocents some how frees up the gays. if we assume that all populations have about 5% gays, then in this recent gaza conflict, of the collateral damage 5% were lgbt. how is bombing a country not oppressing the LGBT population in that country? i really genuinely dont get it.

[m-lekktor]

17. i have witnessed a more simplistic version

i have seen gay friends on facebook express their support for Israel because it has gay rights laws therefore israel supports *them* and well, the palestinians are those icky anti gay muslims, end of discussion. very lazy thinking.

i agree with your comments.

[truedelphi]

41. Yes it is very lazy thinking.

I was trying to think of how to categorize it, but that "lazy thinking" term expresses it in full.

[m-lekktor]

22. you might find this interesting.

a story about notorious pinkwasher , gay porn director Michael Lucas (used to vote republican until recently, jewish pro israel), getting a pro Palestinian event to be held at a LGBT center in NYC cancelled.

http://muzzlewatch.com/category/pinkwashing/

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. I cant stand michael lucas. he is a giant racist. nt

[m-lekktor]

26. oh i know. he keeps popping up on my "people you might know" facebook thing.

we have "18 mutual friends". i have no interest

that issue with the LGBT center infuriated me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. it infuriated me too. also i feel like he has said other more overtly racist things in the past

[Scootaloo]

61. It's simply to sell the slaughter to lazy thinkers on the left

Or, if they don't buy it, to accuse them of hating gays. It has nothing at all to do with the actual gay people being discussed.

[sabrina 1]

65. Yes, it's an old tactic, using Left issues to slam them with. However it fails miserably when

you point that those USING this tactic are supporting people like Maliki. How is HE on gay rights, does anyone know? Or the Saudis, or the Bahrain dictatorship not to mention Uzbekistan, all allies of the slammers of those who oppose these mass killings.

I have tried to get some of them to answer how it is that this issue of women's and gay's rights seems to end at the close relationships our government has with some of the world's worst abusers of both women and gays. But I never get an answer.

[rickyhall]

14. Good for you

I don't support any religion PERIOD

[el_bryanto]

16. I support freedom of religion myself, so long as that religion doesn't intrude on others. nt

[F4lconF16]

21. Same here.

The fun questions are what define intrusion, though.

[tomp]

49. including their children. nt.

[el_bryanto]

51. Depends on what you mean by that. nt

[tomp]

74. i'm pretty radical when it comes to indoctrination of children.

teaching anything other than general civilized behavior should wait until after the age of consent, unless it is GENERAL religious instruction, including the concepts of atheism and agnosticism. i know, radical, right.

i'm also against any instruction that teaches subjection of women to men.

but i think things like genital mutilation in children should be outlawed world wide. if, after the age of consent, people wish to surgically alter their genitals, well then let them have at it. and that means a husband does not have the right to decide for the wife and no penalties for deciding against it.

[Throd]

18. Not a fan of the non-religious fundies either.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. i dont know what a non religious fundamentalist is.

[Throd]

25. There are other dogmas apart from religion where people can be just as rabid and intolerant.

The 20th century saw millions of people killed by non-religious ideologies.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. ahh. i see what you mean.

[2banon]

38. I haven't seen that ever in my life. and I'm over 60.

might there be a bit of an exaggeration or possibly obsession on the views of a tiny few?

[truedelphi]

42. Both The Third Reich and Pol Pot were Godless movements.

Hitler's regime helped to kill off fifty million people, on account of Nazi Genocidal policies and the war deaths, and Pol Pot killed off 2 to 4 million.

Of course it could be argued, I suppose, that in the Third Reich the state religion was about worshipping Hitler.

[Throd]

45. Then you were alive when Maoists had their heyday in the 60's.

[2banon]

70. I misperceived the context as regarding religious fundamentalism vs "atheist fundamentalism"

my mistake, I inferred "non-religious" fundamentalism as associated with so called "atheist fundamentalism" which is actually what i was addressing, simply because I don't see that as an issue of concern but have seen it raised recently as straw man arguments on related matters.

my bad.

[Enthusiast]

36. There are military fundamentalists.

Military fundamentalists advocate spending tax dollars on a foreign nation's defense while they would allow American citizens to go without education, health care, food, shelter, water and clothing.

Military fundamentalists enrich themselves at the expense of the General Welfare.

There are Free-Market Fundamentalists that do as much harm.

[LeftishBrit]

19. I don't know what brought this on; but as a British leftie I also oppose all forms of religious

fundamentalism, especially of an aggressively right-wing variety. Whatever the religion!

The fact that I also happen to be female makes me even stronger in my views on that matter!

[stevenleser]

23. Yep, you already know where I stand on this. nt

[cer7711]

27. BINGO!

:::applause-applause:::

No, you're not the only one. (You're in the intellectual company of Noam Chomsky, f'r instance.)

Ever read Mark Twain's "The War Prayer"?

Google it. Worth the read.

[gateley]

28. I vacillate --

On one hand, I'm happy about the air drops (I'm sure we all are) and "protecting" those victims.

On the other hand, I'm too aware of what can happen with the "targeted air strikes".

I don't know a solution, though, so it's good I'm not the one calling the shots.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. the iraq situation is definitely worth vacillating about. there is no clear good answer

[Rex]

32. I do not support fundamentalism, no matter what form we find it in.

Authortarian-fundmentalists are a pox on humanity. They continue to want to rule the world from the middle ages.

[Jack Rabbit]

33. !!

..

[Spitfire of ATJ]

34. I'm one of those classic blue collar Dems who believes the whole damn planet is in this together...

And what makes us all the same is more important than what makes us different, and what makes us different should be celebrated as our species wonderful variety.

[DocwillCuNow]

35. When people learned to speak and became able to transfer their belief systems to others....

war wasn't far in the offing.

[truedelphi]

43. That is so true.

I have this photo of a wonderful bas relief dating back to around 1,900 BC, and all the men and animals and snakes portrayed in it are just smiling their asses off.

If you examine art from the Middle Ages, the peasants look like they' re totally depressed.

[irisblue]

53. trudelphi

could you scan and post this for me. this is not a good day for the bluewaterzamek(castle)
(sometimes a reminder is needed)

[truedelphi]

73. Here it is. I am curious, where is the bluewater castle?

.html?filters[user]=51829625&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

And I have thought of you lately, and how you added so much wonderful poetry to our lives.

[2banon]

37. With you here.. and I don't even support Religion

I look at practicing Spiritual rituals and beliefs as I do adult sexual interests. It's personal, and should be shared in the privacy of ones personal domain only with other like minded and consenting adults.

Do not impose either on the public and especially children.

[KT2000]

39. Fundamentalism is

egocentric.

[JI7]

40. about pink washing, i am noticing many right wingers using treatment of gays in muslim

countries for their hatred of arabs and muslims.

they bring up how women and gays are treated. when i bring up how it's republicans that oppose many rights they will say things like "at least we don't kill them".

it's just more bigotry trying to hide behind fake concern for someone.

[BainsBane]

44. I don't care what people believe

I care what they do. If they are fundamentalists, that is their business. If they use that as an excuse to inflict harm on others, then that becomes my business.

[valerief]

46. Isn't the *ultimate* goal to make rich people richer? Isn't that always

the war goal (except, of course, as performed by the brainwashed masses who think they're killing for gawd or liberty or some other "virtue&quot ?

[swilton]

47. It isn't about religion

which is a fig leaf for the real motives behind imperialist wars - RESOURCES/greet = capitalism

[RiverNoord]

48. I'm an atheist, a vegetarian, and a staunch liberal

I certainly don't 'support' religious fundamentalism.

However, I respect people who act in accordance with their beliefs. People who claim to subscribe to a particular religious doctrine, then willfully behave in ways that are utterly contradictory to aspects of the doctrine that are inconvenient for them - well, what's the point?

So, while I naturally won't 'support' religious fundamentalism, I can respect people who act in accordance with what they believe to be important doctrine of their religion. It's only through such respect that understanding and progress can be achieved among those of divergent belief systems.

ISIL, for example, is, in my mind, grotesquely vicious, destructive and, inasmuch as evil can be said to exist, it is. However, it is composed of people who rigorously act on their beliefs, and that I must respect. Its adherents are fiercely devoted to their cause, and that's why they are such capable fighters.

[VA_Jill]

50. Definitely not the only one!

I think there are millions of us and we're everywhere. We just aren't loud enough because we're too damn polite and respectful. Maybe that's our problem.

[peoli]

52. I am starting to think Fundamentalism is a Mental Illness.

[Jackpine Radical]

55. It's not, in and of itself,

but it's certainly aligned with certain personality traits that are comorbid with various sorts of mental illness.

Anxiety & phobias, OCD, chronic anger, etc.

[Iron Man]

58. If it's not, it should be.

[Rhythm]

57. Ditto... and well said, Pri...

[maced666]

59. All fundamentalism religions aren't the same.

'This is not just the same. Look, I'm no fucking Catholic or Christian but one is herpes and one is cancer'....'you are creating a false equivalency' - Bill Maher.

[Tom Ripley]

60. Yes

[randome]

62. I'm a human being and don't support religion in any form.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[subject]

64. Religion is spiritualism gone political

I support no religion either.

[hfojvt]

63. you are part of the American left or in the American left

but I don't think you ARE the American left

or even an official spocksperson of the American left.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. Lol. Ok. Nt

[Marrah_G]

66. You are not alone.

[abakan]

67. Religious fundamentalism will scorch the earth.

Doesn't matter the religion or sect, many have the ability and inclination to claim theirs is the one and only true belief and anyone who disagrees should be put to death. It has been this way throughout the history of religion and it will continue.
Ok I know the argumentative will take exception and claim there are non violent religions and there are. Usually they are the prey these other religions feed on.

[closeupready]

68. I am 100% liberal, and I stand with you, Lionness.

K&R

[DeSwiss]

71. K&R!

[Initech]

72. I refuse to live under a government ruled by theocrats.