General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAs a Devout Christian.. My question for the Hobby Lobby
family that took their to suit to the Supreme Court to not have to pay for contraception based on religious beliefs.
How will you live with yourselves, knowing you have increased the number of abortions that are going to be performed??
Put everything aside.. Your politics got in the way of your "supposed" beliefs in the sanctity of life.
Abortions have been falling for years.
Now you have opened a can of worms, that will keep companies from letting families have access to prevention of pregnancy.. which does just one thing
It increases the number of abortions performed.
You have to take this with you to the grave and beyond.
In one fell swoop you have increased how many abortions will be performed.
This is why we HAD? laws that made things like contraception and abortion the province of the woman. The individual makes the best decisions.
Because things like this increases abortions. You have taken away any other options.
Oh I know, you will now whine how the workers can get contraception in other venues.. Think again.. That is what insurance is for. And other companies are going to take it further..pushing families into desperate situations
Are you happy? Slapping each other on the back now? Were your politics really worth it?
Coventina
(27,217 posts)Anyone who has read the New Testament knows how Jesus feels about hypocrites.
Peacetrain
(22,881 posts)3catwoman3
(24,083 posts)...what percentage of the artsy-crapsy stuff they sell is from China? On the couple of occasions I was in there before I added them to my places-I-will-no-longer-shop list, it seemed like most of it.
Coventina
(27,217 posts)They are a 5 billion + company.
3catwoman3
(24,083 posts)...company is not usually the image that comes to mind when thinking of a privately owned "family" business.
Coventina
(27,217 posts)And it stinks to high heaven.
Pun intended.
FBaggins
(26,778 posts)It can't increase the number of abortions (to them), because the reason they opposed those forms of contraception in the first place is that they considered them to be abortifaients.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)It's not a pregnancy until implantation. It's not a pregnancy just because sperm are swimming around in there with eggs.
Alito said that they believe it's morally wrong to kill an embryo and that's what the drugs/IUDs do. WRONG! It's 2 WEEKS away from being an embryo! But all they care about are 2 fertilized sex cells. To the religious, the fertilized egg is life.
But no doctor or scientist would say that it's a "life" until implanted.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)More mouths = more profits.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)supports exactly what you are saying.
Even those on the other side can see what a disaster this is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-richard-cizik/hobby-lobby-pro-life_b_5538942.html
Peacetrain
(22,881 posts)it was a good read.. I feel physically ill over this.. I can't believe SCOTUS is so committed to the rights of corporations over the rights of the individual. How long will it be before they knee cap the bill of rights.. oh wait.. just happened.. sigh..
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I pretty much had myself convinced that they could not possibly rule this way.
And the potential for a really bad precedent is even scarier.
I think there is going to be a strong and loud public backlash, not that the 5 justices that ruled really care.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)to sink to new depths!
Peacetrain
(22,881 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)Funny thing: these god-floggers don't seem to have RTFM.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Of course he is a liar.
REP
(21,691 posts)His lips are moving.
Works with any Pope.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)I'm not that knowledgeable of the details in the bible. I'm asking seriously, where the fascination is rooted. Clearly they care not for the baby or the child even until an adult death.
REP
(21,691 posts)Numbers 5:11-31
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar:
26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.
Basically, if a woman is suspected of infidelity (or has been raped without witnesses) but there's no proof, she is to be made to drink an herbal abortifacient. If she's not pregnant, no harm no foul. If she is, the pregnancy aborts and she's exiled or killed.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)There's no mention of actual birth control for a married couple? Only the "day after water" in case of fucking without the Husband's permission? (I think it says it's ok if he has knowledge, but hell, I can't follow that stuff, even written)
Nothing saying you can't use an abortifacient or birth control?
I'm wondering where the Religious Foundation the supremes rested this decision on actually is.
REP
(21,691 posts)If there are witnesses, both the man and woman are exiled or killed.
If there are no witnesses, the rapist is free and if the woman was pregnant and aborts, she's exiled or killed.
Infidelity here means voluntary or rape; defiled means rape.
And yes, it's the only detailed reference to BC or abortion.
ETA: this is OT, not NT
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)They like to gloss over that part.
REP
(21,691 posts)When I get one, I ask them what the story of the Levite's concubine means. Then I have to give them chapter and verse because they don't know their book as well as I do.
(Judges 19:16-29)
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)My father is catholic so I really don't know what a devout christian means these days.
In my long search in life in spiritual pursuits I read all the gnostic scriptures to study what and where the religion came from and why the catholic denied these writings and made them heretical.
Most of the gnostic sects were extremely balanced in the control and power of the male and female leaders and recognized the power of the feminism needed in the yin and yang of the universe to heal mankind as what gnostic jesus they saw and promoted.
The myth of the archons is from the gnostic writings and is fact goes back to early egyptian teachings which can found in The Nag Hammadi Library. a collection of Gnostic texts discovered near the Upper Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi in 1945.
The myth of the archons has now even reached into Ufo lore.
Devout...... is a word a tend to avoid in my search for 'the truth'
Anyway check it out and carry on
Yes the decision sucked today.
Uncle Joe
(58,481 posts)Thanks for the thread, Peacetrain.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)They buy their cheap crafting products from China where 1-child policy is strictly enforced.
They are hypocrites!
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)However, it could if we didn't have the ACA which gives the HHS the power to do something.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)the fact that the HL retirement plans invest in companies that manufacture and SELL the very contraceptive methods they oppose. So if you are going to have a policy of fervent beliefs then they should make sure nothing they do touches those.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and an actual surgical abortion performed at a later stage. They seem to believe that as soon as a sperm meets an egg, that a life is created. So I think your arguments would fall upon deaf ears.
JI7
(89,281 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Maternity leave then. Get pregnant, get fired.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)does not mean they are smart. In the big picture of human survival on this tiny spinning ball of dirt in an endless universe they are exceptionally stupid and ignorant people. And, they have brought untold misery to many many people. Perhaps their plan is to start selling rusty coat hangers for home style abortions.