General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFor the umpteenth time: Calling out racism is NOT racist or divisive
It is the duty of every thinking person to challenge racism, at every turn. I have a black acquaintance who calls Asian people "chinamen," and I get on her case about it.
I see a thread was just LOCKED about rush limbaugh's ridiculous Uncle Tom comments about black people who voted for Cochran in Mississippi. Sorry...posting a thread about the overt, ever-present, and never-ending racism of the RW is NOT RACISM.
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nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i am BEYOND frustrated right now. how in the hell does a racist comment by a know rw asshole get locked here?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Look at the personal attacks on this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025149398
I no longer bother alerting. The juries will not hide that. But they hide things like the OP.
These community standards are lovely. Why many of us at times scratch our heads.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)because the new and improved "community Standards" allow for that shit all the time?
Now I need to write a story involving my local board, involving land use and General Plans.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,144 posts)(Some NSFW language included in clip)
Maybe your friend just likes when you quote The Big Lebowski?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)friggin idiot
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)since not all people of East Asian ancestry are Americans. Shocking but true fact: there are people of Asian ancestry in Canada, too. And Peru. And Australia and the UK and France and many other places which are not America.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,144 posts)Although Walter might agree.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)of course. i had hoped that the offended would state their cases.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I've alerted on stuff that looks like it is straight off the pages of FR, yet it stays because some jurors refuse to hide anything and hate the jury system. At one time we had HOSTS that would lock threads that were off topic...I guess they all disappeared or took to heart (way too much imo) what skinner said about locking posts.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)
I enjoy your posts. I give the jury the benefit of doubt. however, there is a meme i've noticed that claims speaking out about racism is "divisive"...never mind "actual," verified acts of racism. and that meme needs to die. it is nothing more than an excuse, hence my post.Rex
(65,616 posts)Another completely unnecessary hide, one of the worst I've seen. Either we can talk about everything on this site, or we can talk about nothing on this site. Making fun of the GOP is one of DUs favorite pastimes...or it was!
I've given up on the jury system completely.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)she said nothing, but posted a picture.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Thought it was Rush's bus. However, some are saying it is a photoshopped picture and I am starting to see what they are talking about.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is the bus, i think you take your chance. it could stay or be hidden, depending on jury.
but i do not see anywhere it has to do with racism.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I too have to look at the hide first before I decide to get pissed or roll my eyes.
BainsBane
(53,010 posts)I didn't think that was the one he was talking about. I'm wondering if it was a reply rather than an OP that was hidden?
Rex
(65,616 posts)That was the only hidden thread in the past day in GD, but I should have not assumed as much - so that is on me.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)The OP complained about a thread that was LOCKED, not a thread that was juried and hidden. Locking of threads is what the hosts of a forum do when for whatever reason the thread didn't meet the SOP of the forum.
There was a locked Lounge thread about Rush because it was inappropriate for the Lounge. When that happens the person that had their thread locked is free to re-post it in an appropriate forum.
I'll tell you what though, if the locked thread is the one the OP of this one is referring that I discovered in the forum and group hosts forum (and I'm not seeing any others that qualify) had it not been locked it should have been alerted for a jury and hidden because of the use of derogatory terms about overweight people.
Baitball Blogger
(46,673 posts)This is a discussion board. If there is an indication that GD members want to talk about an issue, it usually stays. These are guidelines that evolved through the Q&A process in ATA.
What is not so easy to determine are links to woo sites and other right-wing sources. Generally, if it involves a topic that ridicules the right's POV or it has hit national attention, it stays.
But, eliminating topics of racism because it's a divisive issue, as far as I can see, did not crop out of any guideline from the admins. It looks like it was generated from collective thought among posters. Probably someone's interpretation of disruption. I don't know for sure. But I believe it's a mistake that needs to be corrected.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)From concern trolls who want to "attract" racist, homophobes, and misogynists to the democratic big tent. At least that's what they claim.
Baitball Blogger
(46,673 posts)I think it was wrong to apply that rule broadly. I also believe that many people have learned from that experience. But we still need to be watchful that the same mindset does not stop productive discussion in the future.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)K&R
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)that talking about racism = racism.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)That's some fuzzy logic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)talking about the racism of liberals/progressives/in the Democratic Party was considered racist. I guess DU has finally taken the step to just flat out say: DON'T TALK ABOUT RACISM, PERIOD!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)It seems to resonate more with so-called mainstream or centrist types. It is still a very acceptable vehicle for 3rd way triangulation, e.g., affirmative action, welfare reform and mandatory sentences. WE were the first to go under the bus. I grant you this: anyone who claims to be liberal or progressive AND denies racism is an asshole.
Response to noiretextatique (Original post)
redqueen This message was self-deleted by its author.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)SMH.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)over the free speech issue. i would deny anyone that right, however, they need to put on their big boy pants and be prepared to take the heat.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)
fortunately....i am not confused, and neither are you 
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Now I have never ever posted about Snowden, I read only because I have no insights, and the whole thing has a lot of unknowns, and I am not a big speculator. I post about what I know.
Racking my brains, I guess it's because I gave a popular DUer shit over making fun of people upset by water melon jokes. So apparently you're either "with" this prolific poster or you support the MIC and NSA spying. I wish I was making it up- but yeah- hosts are making "lists" of troublemakers over incorrect assumptions, and crowing about "those people", and these are people who are upset about the NSA targeting people. Funny, right?
Me, Nikki, Zappaman, and Nmuber 23 are apparently all "third way-ers", because free speech!!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Hillary loving supporter of the MIC complex, and a third wayer. No actual support of Hillary or dislike of Greenwald or Snowden actually has to be posted for people to angrily hurl these accusations at you. So it goes here these days.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)reason than the supreme crt?
what does that make me, lol
nah. do not bother. i do not care.
i am not even going to get into that battle. i am placing odds she will not run. but she sure seems to have the momentum.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and ignore their alerts, tell other hosts this "group should be ignored". Unless of course it is someone they high- five in Greenwald threads, those alerts are fine.
That is why they are hosting. To spite people who do not like seeing c***t here. Because the NSA isn't their FIRST priority. Amazing, huh?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lol.
i really am confused. had to read that a couple times. i didnt know we had a "snowden supporter group". and cause we talk womens issues they are pissed and leave the c word for retaliation? wow.
pm if you want cause now i am curious, but cant be the bog, right? after 2008, i stopped getting into the political threads cause i do not throw dem under the bus, yet, does not mean i cannot see or recognize issues. so, i do not know the dynamics. but that is totally fugged.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)trashing DUers that they deem too gutless to "stand up" by recing their pet threads trashing "third way" people. I didn't know not recing something made you a bad DUer. Apparently, it does.
If you aren't spitting on Hillary right now, you're on their list. And a host claims 6 DUers that alerted (not the C word thread) should be ignored because they are in a "group", not one other GD host challenged that. Not one. Other hosts did. The host refused to give a straight answer what "group" this was, just admitted it yesterday it was because I alert at all.....and I only knew Nikki and (a little) Number23 from it. Zappaman I never knew, or Cooley I still do not know. Forget the others. Rotten to the core.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)
Nailed it, bettyellen.
I was there, saw it just as you described.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Anyone hosting for inappropriate reasons and using their position to lock or not lock threads based on who posted or their own personal opinions needs to be banned from being allowed to host.
Seriously, lay it out who this person is and what they said and alert Skinner about it.
JustAnotherGen
(31,777 posts)Snowden is a 'trashed' key word for me! Shows up in a subject line - POOF! Into thin air! Voila! 
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)that is guilty by association. Never posting about hating the TPP or NSA means you love them. Not particapating in a Hil hatefest makes you a thrid wayer. This was explained to me by a host who rails on about the NSA making lists, and so far, they have not seen the irony. And here they go yapping about the "two minutes of hate" while engaging in it. I have to laugh.
JustAnotherGen
(31,777 posts)Shhhh betty - don't tell 'em.
I love me some NSA! 
If you are part of that 'crowd' of very bad people then I wanna be in your club!
Oh - and just for good measure - Not only do I love Hillary Clinton but heh heh heh Erik Prince and Dick Devos are hoooooooooooooooooooooot!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Cooley must think I am nuts, because I;ve asked him when he's coming to practice with me and Peace Nikki. I am not so good with remembering names. Or making lists.
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
1. GDH - I posted in that thread so no vote from me.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:48 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
2. Kicking... open to NAGDH input since it seems to be a light GDH night.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #2)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:55 PM
greatauntoftriplets (139,682 posts)
4. Frankly, it's a question he should ask Skinner.
And that's all I'm going to say, just wanted to help out even a little bit. Good luck with this.
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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #4)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:57 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
5. Thanks!
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #5)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:58 PM
greatauntoftriplets (139,682 posts)
6. You're welcome!
Bedtime for me.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:52 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
3. Got a pass from a jury, just FYI not related to our decision.
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035784
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This is ridiculous. Meta is dead and GD is not this person's individual forum to endlessly complain about any perceived "slights" he feels have been bestowed. Completely inappropriate for this forum
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:48 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I should hide because, META. but 50% of GD is META now it seems. I am not willing to hide this META unless all META gets hidden.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Baaaaaaaah!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: alerter can go suck eggs. turning alertds into meta is better.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #3)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:41 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
18. Whining about DU is an SOP violation and that is a host decision.
Juries are not responsible for hiding SOP violations. But we are responsible for locking them.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:59 PM
Warren Stupidity (37,298 posts)
7. gdh leave wsc
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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #7)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:00 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
8. Thanks.
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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #7)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
34. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #34)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:49 AM
Warren Stupidity (37,298 posts)
121. Well I replied before I saw the nonsense that happened here.
Don't lock threads with no consensus. Doing so causes hosting to be painful. Please stop.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:05 PM
X_Digger (15,433 posts)
9. GDH- leaning lock, but WSC.
It is meta bullshit, but meta has been getting a pass recently.
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Response to X_Digger (Reply #9)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:09 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
11. Thanks.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:05 PM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
10. GDH - Leave.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:09 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
12. Thanks.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
33. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:10 PM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
13. Leave. n/t
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Response to Autumn (Reply #13)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
32. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #32)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:46 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
119. Is that required? A new rule perhaps?Can you provide a strong rationale
for locking posts you don't like and ignoring the votes of GD hosts to side with non GD hosts who just so happen to be the alerters?
Many hosts have put leave only in the subject line. And can you be anymore fucking rude? Since when do you get to put up new rules?
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:31 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
14. Whining about jury decisions is not a jury issue, it's SOP and this should be locked.
GD hosts have a very narrowly defined jurisdiction and this is one of the few things is in it. There's no excuse for not locking. But considering the players I'm not going to waste the effort of going rogue and then dealing with the stupid shite that would inevitably follow. If GD hosts want to screw around instead of doing their rather elementary and easy job, fine, screw around.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #14)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:40 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
17. Not currently a GD host, but I agree with you
"Whining about DU" is clearly prohibited in the GD SoP.
Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:37 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
15. Another alert:
Author: WillyT
Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035784
Alerted by berni_mccoy: Whining about DU
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #15)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:39 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
16. Hoo boy. This one needed to be locked up an hour ago.
Thanks for bringing this alert in Rhiannon as I know you're not a GD host.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #16)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:42 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
19. No, I'm not at the moment, but GD alerts are the only ones on the list right now...
And most of them are about this particular thread.
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #19)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:45 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
20. 5 in just over an hour.
I think we're creating a problem, not solving a problem.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #20)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:47 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
21. The way I look at this, DUers have spoken
Just my two-cents...
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #21)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:42 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
44. The DU'ers have spoken? Those DU'ers are not hosts. The hosts voted to leave.
All of the alerters are in the same Group. They can get 10 more alerts if they want. It isnt about how many alerts there are it's up to the hosts.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:45 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
47. Yup.
Last edited Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:45 AM - Edit history (1)
ETA: So I feel like I have to qualify my statement before I get called out on something I didn't mean. I just meant that regardless of the fact that there are "x" alerts it doesn't indicate whether the DU "community" feels a certain way about a thread, IMO. That is all.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:51 AM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
50. My point is that if there are more than one or two alerts
The hosts should take that into consideration and reevaluate. But it's up to you...
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:21 AM
Number23 (16,246 posts)
83. "All of the alerters are in the same Group."
And this, better than ANYTHING anyone else could have typed, is the crux of the host problem right here.
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Response to Number23 (Reply #83)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:46 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
88. you said it right there.
my jar dropped when I saw that. five alerts is nothing if you don't like the DUers, I guess. that would be the group right there.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #88)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:01 AM
Number23 (16,246 posts)
94. "five alerts is nothing if you don't like the DUers" You nailed it
As many times as you and I have bumped heads over the years, I guess we're in the "same group" because rhett o rick doesn't like us. Which is perfectly fine with me, in all honesty, but that certainly does make one question his "fitness for duty".
That person is far too preoccupied with keeping up with what "group" is doing what instead of enforcing the SOP of the forum. We all know he's by no means alone in that regard, but it's still pretty amazing to see out in the open.
Edit: And actually it was SIX alerts by long time DUers that all need to be ignored, apparently.
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Response to Number23 (Reply #94)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:09 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
97. I know, I just looked at the group and said WHUT?
I can't remember any agreeable conversations with any of them except for Nikki, actually. Wow. I feel like I've really neglected Zappaman now, ha ha.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #97)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 06:48 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
116. What should we call our "Group"? Pussy is already taken.
BTW, I'll play the triangle. I hope you can sing.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #88)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:49 AM
Whisp (23,770 posts)
120. Looks like List Making to me.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:50 AM
zappaman (11,770 posts)
90. What group is that Rick?
What group am I in?
Is there a "let's ignore their alerts" group as well as whatever group you are blathering about?
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Response to zappaman (Reply #90)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:58 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
93. Have we ever spoken before?
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:15 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
117. Are you suggesting that there was a coordinated effort to alert on this one stupid, meta OP?
Or any? That's both wrong and fucking ridiculous. It was a disruptive meta post. I stand by that. Alone or with a fucking "group".
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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #117)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:08 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
142. Apparently we have hosts who believe alerting is so beyond the pale that
The imagine it must be personal? A bit if projecting there!
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #142)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:10 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
143. This place is a fucking joke. A few hosts are FREAKING THE FUCK OUT that they are being asked to
justify their decision, but completely ok with the fact that another LITERALLY said they should disregard the alerters.
I am really getting sick of one or two hosts treating non-(current GD)hosts like we're pieces of shit who should be ignored. Hey, newsflash, we're members of this community, too.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #142)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:12 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
144. I'm really not comfortable with GD hosts being attacked like this....
I don't think it's helpful at all...
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #144)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:13 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
145. How about alerters being 'attacked', is that cool?
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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #145)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:15 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
147. Even if they had been, that doesn't justify attacking GD hosts n/t
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #147)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:18 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
148. She's not 'attacking', she's voicing anger about being "grouped" and dismissed.
Follow the subthread you're in.
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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #148)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:19 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
149. Both of you are attacking the hosts and making things much harder in here than they need to be n/t
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #147)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:19 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
150. The alerters were attacked and accused of nefarious BS...
And if discussing it reads as an attack on any one- maybe it's because that was an incredibly shitty and biased thing to say.
No reflection on anyone acting in good faith here.
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #15)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:52 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
23. Added it to the OP, thanks!
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #23)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:53 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
25. No worries!
Slow evening... *fingers crossed*
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:50 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
22. Does anyone object to a lock, and if so, can you give a strong rationale why we should ignore SOP
not to mention Skinner's clear instructions and leave this thread open?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:52 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
24. You have two GDH that voted leave so you'd need to TB with them.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #24)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:54 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
27. I don't see any rationale for leaving this open.
Do you?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #27)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:55 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
28. As I said upthread I'm not going to vote on this one.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
30. I will politely ask all three leavers for their reasons.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:59 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
35. I have politely asked all three leavers for their reasons. nt
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #35)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:05 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
38. Wonderful.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:57 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
52. We dont have to get you to approve our reasons to leave. We are supposed to leave threads open
unless there is a CLEAR CONSENSUS TO LOCK. There is no such consensus. And dont let non-hosts "strongly encourage" you do lock something when there is not a consensus. You should not be locking threads unilaterally.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #52)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:02 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
56. Baloney. You should SHARE your reasons, but you all haven't.
You shouldn't be surprised that a Host's vote with no reasoning behind it has no sway. If you care so much about a particular vote, take the time and effort to share your reasoning. That's how the community of Hosts builds consensus, not by "phoned in", effortless votes.
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Response to greyl (Reply #56)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:11 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
81. It isn't baloney by a long shot.
Group consensus is group consensus and when it is close, Skinner himself said to leave it.
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Response to greyl (Reply #56)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:38 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
127. New rule? Made by who? Since when is that an issue?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:23 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
112. NaGDH, but I saw a good point made in the OP.
I lurk more than post these days, but I felt strongly enough about the discussion to participate in it. So did many others. I can understand why some hosts would vote to leave it.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:53 PM
greyl (16,995 posts)
26. Am I wrong, or
did the 3 Leave voters not include an ounce of reasoning behind their vote?
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Response to greyl (Reply #26)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
31. Nope, "the 3 Leave voters not include an ounce of reasoning behind their vote", again.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #31)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:00 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
36. If it were up to me, I'd ignore their votes
and let them work on gathering the required reasoning needed for their complaint to Admin to be sympathized with.
(Not a GD Host)
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Response to greyl (Reply #36)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:04 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
37. yeah, I know they think racism and sexist crap is not in their purview, but this is clearly a
violation. I guess Willie is special. This is just making GD worse, Grassswire posted some real RW crap and we have a thread of people treating her like Joan of Arc or a little lost lamb. Can't wait to see what they'll be emboldened to post next.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #37)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:45 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
114. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What does the OP have to do with "racism & sexist crap"?
Or to the post to which you were responding? That's coming from left-field, as though some prior hurts of yours are coming into play where they shouldn't be.
That's some commentary about grasswire where it doesn't belong, too. Your commitment to "no Meta threads" isn't looking very strong.
It's sad to see the hosts forum becoming an offshoot of the Meta forum.
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Response to pacalo (Reply #114)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:51 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
137. It's about inconsistency.
What did I say about Grasswire other than she posted RW crap? She/ he did that.
No speculation why on my part.
I commented on those around her/ him acting as if getting a thread locked made them a martyr for getting a locked post- w/ RW crap. No one is a martyr here for having a locked post, it happens. And it should happen if it's dodgy RW bullshit. That is why you all got so many alerts. I'm sure the RW crap got juried for the same reason, because of where we are.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #37)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:05 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
125. What disgusting smears against Willy and Grasswire.
Grasswire apologized, had no idea it was a RW site, you should be ashamed of yourself.
"yeah, I know they think racism and sexist crap is not in their purview, but this is clearly a violation. I guess Willie is special. This is just making GD worse, Grassswire posted some real RW crap and we have a thread of people treating her like Joan of Arc or a little lost lamb. Can't wait to see what they'll be emboldened to post next".
That is a personal attack against two DUers by a so called host in a forum where neither of them have the opportunity to defend themselves against your vile bullshit.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #125)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:38 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
135. She did post RW crap, it's not a smear- it's reality.
Accidental or not- I didn't speculate. No insult there. It happened, was corrected and not the end of the world. I said the same thing to Grasswire's face. Know a bit about your sources. It's not hard.
Hosts speculating WHY many different DUers alerted are some kind of a group? That was a smear, unfounded, and shows bias against six good DUers. Do they not matter?
It is now clear that some hosts are looking at the people, and not the posts when deciding how to vote. They explain this here while avoiding discussion of the OP.
That explains a lot if the inconsistency here.
Poor Achshmid asking for other hosts to weigh in. They didn't realize that's only welcome theoretically.
I never did try and "vote", but said many times I thought it was a bad lock as handled. But it should have been a clear easy lock. It's pretty cut and dry.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #135)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:41 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
136. She didn't know, I wouldn't have known that was a RW site.
Talking trash about DUers in the host form is not cool. Look in a mirror lady you have been looking at the people for quite a while now when you want a post locked.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #136)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:55 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
138. Untrue. I am completely unfamiliar with Grass and never speculated- but clearly their post was a
Problem. That's not talking trash- it's exactly what hosts are supposed to be discussing- instead of talking trash about the alerters. Group my ass.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #138)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:56 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
139. She apologized but that's not good enough for you. We discuss alerted posts, not the posters.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #139)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:02 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
140. A lock is good enough for RW crap, and I hold no animus toward them.
But you seem okay with trashing the alerters as was done here. No comment on that bit of bias?
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #140)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:07 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
141. Then there should be a list of acceptable sites. Y'all ought to get right on that.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #141)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:14 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
146. News busters has an anti- liberal subheading under the name...
You can look at the "editors picks" to get a feel for it where a place is at, editorially.
It's a good lesson for Grasswire, anyway.
Are you really thinking any old RW crap should stay if it's an accident or was posted by someone the hosts like and want to protect? That seems to be the message I'm getting. After all this, I have no idea why anyone would leave that crap in GD. None.
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Response to greyl (Reply #36)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:37 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
42. GDH - So you are not a GD Host and you are pushing a host to ignore other host's votes.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #42)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:04 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
58. That fact that you are pulling rank instead of offering reasoning,
leads me to believe you are occupying space in a Host slot rather than using it as it was intended.
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Response to greyl (Reply #58)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:06 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
59. If claiming that non-hosts dont have a vote is "pulling rank" then I am guilty. I resent your
pressure to try to get me to see things your way.
I voted to leave and I dont owe you an explanation.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:13 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
63. Nobody is arguing that non-GD Hosts have a vote.
You are arguing that the opinion of non-GD Hosts offered here in this decision making discussion should be ignored.
I say good luck trying to get people to ignore good reasoning from other DU Hosts.
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Response to greyl (Reply #63)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:19 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
65. I didn't try and vote, we just discussed our opinions calmly. for this I am accused of being part of
some group or another. LOL. Ridiculous.
" I try to lock those threads that violate the SOP, period. If one gets left inappropriately, we cant just let the retaliatory OP stand if it violates the SOP. " -
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #65)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:26 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
68. I've just lost my patience with Hosts who think all they're supposed to do is vote, not think.
When Hosting on DU3 was new, it was different. But after seeing a pattern of Hosts voting Leave while offering little reason for doing so, and when at least one of them goes so far as to say they'll usually vote Leave regardless of whether the Post violates the SOP, I think it's impossible for other Hosts not to learn from that and adjust their adjudicating appropriately.
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Response to greyl (Reply #68)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:32 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
71. yeah, as one said- we usually leave everything, so why not leave everything, LOL.
And that's the best reason they have for this crap? It's pretty funny.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #71)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:50 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
73. You should sign up for GD if you feel you could make a positive impact.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #73)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:57 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
75. not sure how one could these days- with fellow hosts accusing others of bias, yet offering no
rationale for their decisions of allow the SOP to be explictly violated. I hosted before, and it was different. I think they'll always be one head poppin gin with a "leave!!- no consensus possible", now that people realize that is a thing they can do. Always had hosts who did not want to enforce the SOP, but they used to be expected to explain why.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #75)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:06 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
79. He busted a thread that had no concensus
And went off on his own to lock it. That's bullshit.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #79)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:14 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
82. I don't agree with that, nor do I agree on voting to totally disregard the SOP w/ no explaination
The thread was pretty clearly whining about DU, which is just about the only thing that actually does get locked around here, these days.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #82)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:28 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
86. You don't go off on your own
and lock a thread without consensus, and it was not established.
Good bad or indifferent, rules are in place for a reason.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #86)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:31 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
87. I already agreed with that?
But, rules are completely different for some posters than others, and it has always been that way to some extent.
I remember the first day I hosted, someone said they always ignore X persons alerts. And someone else said, oh they alwys have broken that rule, so we can't enforce it. It was terribly confusing!
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Response to greyl (Reply #58)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:05 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
110. "Pulling rank" belongs to the host who locked without consensus.
Skinner has stated that the hosts are, in effect, free to use their own judgment. Like the jury system, you get the luck of the draw in the different mindsets who serve as a team at any given phase DU is going through at the time.
You sound angry, to be frank.
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Response to greyl (Reply #36)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 04:43 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
109. NaGDH: The hosts who voted to leave aren't the ones who need to address ATA.
The ones who are not able to get past opposing hosting opinions are the ones complaining here. There was no consensus to lock this thread.
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Response to greyl (Reply #26)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:17 AM
Bobbie Jo (9,525 posts)
134. Well, one did
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1243&pid=89569
I suspect this is why others didn't feel the to explain.
Seems pretty clear to me, apparently the wrong "group" alerted.
Nope, no bias at work here. Totally above board and a good faith effort.
The inadvertent honesty is kinda interesting, no?
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM
itsrobert (10,393 posts)
29. GDH - Lock
Meta - Whining about DU
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:08 AM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
39. It is locked.
Here is the lock message:
Locking. Complaining about jury decisions violates the GD Statement of Purpose.
It's one of only a few things that does:
Statement of Purpose: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.
Thanks for understanding.
...........................................................
Agschmid, I recommend that you self-delete the OP. I will take full responsibility for this decision. Complaints should be made in ATA. Thanks all and good night.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:10 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
40. I'll leave it open, thanks for the recommendation but I imagine...
there will be some further discussion here.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #40)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:12 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
41. Good Leave. nt
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:39 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
43. GDH - I am respectfully requesting that you unlock this. Remember those here that
are not GD Hosts DONT GET TO VOTE. I am a strong leave. You and the non-hosts dont get to decide if my Leave is worthy.
Please unlock this now.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #43)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:42 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
45. I'm just popping in with a lock vote and a question
I thought whining about hidden posts was something skinner had told us we should be locking. So why wouldn't this one fall into that category?
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #45)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:11 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
62. I dont see this as whining. Sometimes we dont all agree, but some here cant handle that.
I am not referring to you Violet.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #62)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:56 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
74. That's fair enough. Fwiw I don't see it as disruptive meta
Not like the ones where someone calls for the nuking of another DUer. I'm not going to die in a ditch over it so I'm changing my vote to WSC.......
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #43)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:03 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
77. It's a leave
he just hauled off and locked it.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:43 AM
Hassin Bin Sober (10,894 posts)
46. You need to unlock this. You had no consensus.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:46 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
48. Yup.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:04 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
78. Exactly.
I have no idea who he thinks he that he can just swing in and lock threads without consensus, but that was a horrible lock. He needs to get kicked.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:13 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
111. Agree.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:02 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
76. You locked without consensus
That is a no no.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:50 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
49. GDH - I see a vote of three Leaves and two locks. There is no consensus to lock. This is crazy.
Non-hosts are in here telling a host what to do. No one appointed ucrdem as the decider. He does not have the power to review other hosts reasons for their votes and decide whether they are valid or not.
Of course there are a bunch of alerts. They are all in the same "Group".
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:54 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
51. I could honestly care less who the alerters are... this lock was without any consensus from GDH.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #51)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:59 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
54. I only mentioned it because the number of alerters was being used as a reason to lock. It's not a
popularity contest. The non-hosts dont get to vote.
I agree that this was locked without a clear consensus.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #54)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:10 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
60. It's not a popularity contest- but you've given no one any reason to allow the SOP to be ignored
no one has. What is up with that?
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #60)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:17 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
64. Is that a required portion of our job?
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #64)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:22 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
66. I think if you want to leave something that CLEARLY violates the SOP, you owe your fellow hosts the
courtesy of why you want to make a special exemption for this violation.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #66)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:25 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
67. In this case I didn't actually vote, as I stated multiple times.
So no special exemption from me, I just am unhappy with how the lock happened. There were 3-ish leave votes and to me that does not mean we had arrived at consensus.
Anyways not going to beat a dead horse here. Hopefully this gets re-visited by the locking host, goodnight.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #67)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:30 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
69. I understand totally. Sad you invited other hosts opinions only to have us insulted and accused of
pushing anyone to do anything. You can't express an opinion these days without some pretending it's abusive or totolitarinism, LOL.
That no one could provide a rationale, is an interesting point.
(It was a those three you, and not a you you. - And NONE of it is personal)
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #69)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:31 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
70. Well they still might, who knows there is always tomorrow.
Reason or not I feel their voices were important.
Thanks, goodnight.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #54)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:07 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
80. It isn't a popularity contest
but some people want to make it one, and it is plain stupid to allow it to continue.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #80)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:22 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
84. It is about Willie being popular, yep. And maybe about people just hating any rules here at all.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #84)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:49 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
89. Locking a thread
without consensus is against the rules. Is that how you define "hating the rules"? Because I define them that way.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #89)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:54 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
91. I already agreed with you in that so many times, I moved on to discuss other rules
And how they don't see to apply to some posters, or matter to some hosts.
Not exactly a secret, and it appears it's always been that way.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #91)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:08 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
96. I didn't mean to run it into the ground
I do agree with you that it doesn't seem to apply to certain posters.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #96)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:18 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
99. I'm shocked I'm apparently in a group now?
What bullshit. Really embarrassing revelation about the "thinking" that goes on here.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #99)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:21 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
101. ?
I am clueless as to this response. Are you sure it was intended for me ?
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Response to Aerows (Reply #101)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:24 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
102. I thought you'd have seen post 44. Apparently some DUers are better than others
According to hosts here.
Like I said, there have always been biased hosts.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:59 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
53. Some reasoning is persuasive.
Zero reasoning is not.
Zero reasoning is what the Leave votes offered.
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Response to greyl (Reply #53)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:01 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
55. Are they even here right now?
If there is mixed consensus is it the right thing to do to lock a thread and then walk away? It's 1:01AM EST potentially the leave votes are in bed, I don't see any reason this had to be a rushed lock which is what it turned out to be.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #55)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:36 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
72. Half are here, counting you.
How long to wait for all the Leave votes to reply with some reasoning and rebuttal to all the Lock reasons given in the Alerts and Host replies here is a judgement call with a very fuzzy target.
I do think it may have bought some more time if the first objectors here to the Lock offered good reasons for Leaving it.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #55)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:26 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
126. It was my Son in Laws birthday BBQ. I looked in a few times and saw this one and said I was a leave.
as I did on the taterguy alert. I was unaware we had new administrators who are making the rules now.
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Response to greyl (Reply #53)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:03 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
57. I certainly agree that reasoning is persuasive. But there is no requirement for hosts to justify
their votes. Posts are to be left open unless there is a clear consensus to lock. If three host vote to leave, that's enough to indicate that there is not a clear consensus. To pretend that our votes dont count because you dont like our reasoning is crap. I was at dinner when ucrdem unilaterally decided to lock, based on pressure from non-hosts. That's bullcrap.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #57)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:10 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
61. I said "some" reasoning,
implying that there is other reasoning that is not persuasive. I didn't mean to say "an amount of" reasoning is persuasive, because some reasoning out there is lousy. Just because it's offered as reasoning, doesn't mean it's worth a damn, iow.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:35 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
113. Your post here is what moved me to join in on this thread to give it some balance.
Non-hosts are in here telling a host what to do.
I'm a non-host who believes there was no consensus to lock this OP.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:26 AM
Behind the Aegis (32,910 posts)
85. This is fucking absurd!
On Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:00 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Locking. Complaining about jury decisions violates the GD Statement of Purpose.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5036606
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Abuse of host privileges, he did not get consensus.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:11 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: We're in for a rough ride
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Good God Almighty, am I glad my GD hosting tour is over. - Lasher
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is one of the most pathetic uses of the alert system ever! If he is seen as abusing his hosting duties, take it up with Skinner, and for the record, your host privileges should also be revoked!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An alert sent on a host's locking post???
This place is now officially nuts.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
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I stick by my comments (#5)!
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:55 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
92. OMG! Hilarious.
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:04 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
95. My word
we have entered a new era. We alert on alerts about alerts
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Response to Aerows (Reply #95)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:41 AM
LeftishBrit (32,265 posts)
104. Meta-alerting! Or perhaps meta-meta-meta-alerting.
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Aerows This message was self-deleted by its author.
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:40 AM
LeftishBrit (32,265 posts)
103. Good lord, this is ridiculous!
Cannot reply in locked threads
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)... post is kind of annoying.
Or instead of deleting, maybe edit it with a link to the original discussion thread?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and so, in the interest of debunking that denial upthread, I can't delete it. In fact, I will repost every time that host denies being partial about who alerts. Transparency!
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)What in the world could they be talking about?
Talking about racism, as long as you dont use it as an excuse to use the "N" word like NOTarealDR/Laura did, then that is crazy.
Reminds me of a caller today to ARi Rabin-Havt show on Sirius "The Agenda", some rightwing nutjob called in as Ari was talking about McDaniel the wingnut teapartier losing to Cochran.
The caller said "there you liberals go, you cant have a conversation without calling someone names"
WHERE DO I BEGIN
first, McDaniel palled around with white supremacists so any and all names are appropriate, but listening to this guy talk made me almost feel sorry for him.
So dumb, so completely distracted with voting against his own survival that it isnt even funny
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Racists don't say things like "
inserts) are naturally pre-disposed to be criminals" because they hate (inserts). They say it because they actually believe that shit. As far as they are concerned that is simply a factual statement. Every time they think they are just talking about a racial issue, they end up being called racist.
So ultimately they end up thinking any discussion about race is racism.
--------------------------------------
Reason #2: They perfectly well know the difference between racist and racial statements. They are relying on an intellectually dishonest argument knowing their racist arguments are no longer working.
--------------------------------------
Reason #3: They are soooooooooooooooo stupid, they actually believe the shit being espoused by Reasoner #2.
I used to blame about 99% of it on Reason #2. But I have gotten to know quite a few people over the years well enough to know they are not being intellectually dishonest about it. But they honestly do not understand it. And will generally agree with, and echo, the last opinion they hear on that or many other issues.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)but it was an article about his comments. not endorsing the comments...at all.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)That explains why I can't find it. Why someone would confuse pointing out racism with racism, that's a puzzler.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)except some people really believe that discussing racism is "racist'"
boston bean
(36,217 posts)it's a mind fuck. People who don't like people discussing the ills of racism/sexism/misogyny/homophobia, etc think that it would be hypocritical of others to discuss the real downside to it, if you aren't allowed bigoted speech on DU.
Sort of like having a post alerted for using the word "cunt" when discussing the harmfulness of the word itself, or the word itself. I just had a post alerted the other day for typing out the word, when others actually using it for denigration get left. Alerter said this... if we can't say the word, neither can she....
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Since the only instruction is to use your best judgment and there's no penalty for voting in your own best interest instead....juries are about as predictable as a random number table.
p.s. I alerted on your post because *bad word* 
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,706 posts)
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)the purge of 2014
MerryBlooms
(11,756 posts)Was the post maybe in LBN and so not considered Breaking News, but commentary, so was locked?
If it was just a regular jury hide, you would still be able to view the post.
I'm confused.
Was it a MIRT removal?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Pointing out how stupid the GOP is, got said OP a hide.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5149261
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)In this hide. I am confused
Rex
(65,616 posts)Don't see the race or limbaugh here...thought that was HIS bus, but looks like it is photoshopped instead.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)agreeing and endorsing the wingnut talking points, not refuting them
looked like a good hide to me
Rex
(65,616 posts)Thought that was a bus the GOP had following around Hillary (as some others have indicated)...but looks more like a photoshopped version of her bus!
If we get to the point that we get posts hidden for mocking the GOP, then this site is doomed...but it seems I was wrong and that is NOT the case here.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)About that post, but I do believe my point is valid. Some people believe that even discussing racism, sexism, etc, is "divisive."
Rex
(65,616 posts)If we can't talk about racism and sexism, then this is not a very progressive forum.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)reason for the hide. considering there was nothing said, but a picture.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)hidden if the person had not pushed the issue . I hold that person in high regard but resourcing wingnut crap is never cool, imo. Also, Obama vs Clinton supporters is so 2007.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Jumped the gun on that one. However, I thought I'd post this anyway, since some people believe the mere mention of isms is as horrible as those isms.
MerryBlooms
(11,756 posts)he used it to talk about race?
If not, I don't get the relationship between that post and this OP.
The anti Hillary campaign is in full swing, and I don't think any of the others have been hidden... seems off to choose that one.
Rex
(65,616 posts)though you do make a point...a lot of other anti-Hillary stuff gets a pass...dunno I kinda have given up on the jury system.
MerryBlooms
(11,756 posts)I'm with you with the lack of faith in the juries. I also resigned my hosting and in general, participate very little. The host forum is maddening in its dysfunction.
Thanks for the explanation, I really appreciate it.
Rex
(65,616 posts)but that was the only one I could find that was locked by a hide...maybe he meant from another group.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)that one you linked to has nothing to do with Rush Limbaugh or racism.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Thought the OP was talking about the bus being Rush's. I was wrong.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)I could not link.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Sorry. Will try again.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:15 PM - Edit history (1)
MerryBlooms
(11,756 posts)
Number23
(24,544 posts)Not that that means that noire isn't 100% correct with her assertion that to a large number of posters on this web site, talking about racism is "too divisive" (unless it's only about Republican racism, of course) so it's best to just ignore the whole topic.
Bain's Bane has done a number of phenomenal OPs on the topic. That the only kind of racism that folks want to talk about here is conservative racism (unless done by Libertarians. Funny that) and that people ignore the topic completely until they feel that their own axe has been gored in some way.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)up so they declare they will hide nothing. isnt that lovely allowing the racism, sexism and homophobia to run rampant.
i get it. i do not know what is up. that is as much as i can say.
valerief
(53,235 posts)BainsBane
(53,010 posts)for pointing out that African Americans who open carry are more likely to face problems with cops than whites who open carry. And that was in a thread on that very topic. The OP wasn't alerted on, that I'm aware of, but I was.
Conservatives get angry when race is even mentioned. What we are seeing here is the continuing shift to the right of people who claim to be Democrats, and that is no where more evident than on issues of race and gender.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BainsBane
(53,010 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,756 posts)Personality conflicts are playing out in the jury system. I'm not referring to just yours, but some alerts in general.
I wish people who find themselves unable to keep an open mind regarding posters v the post, would recuse themselves from alerting and jury service.
Number23
(24,544 posts)You could not have nailed that any harder if you wanted to.
Some of these folks here think that being "of the left" means wailing endlessly against the U.S. govt and rich people while doing their damndest to minimize, mischaracterize or flat out deny the existence of racism and other of society's ills that are not just perpetrated by rich people. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so backwards, ignorant and deranged.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)over their spewing their racism, sexism and homophobia and really literally waving teir rw flag. they have been posting on du for a while.
i do not know how much is disgruntled dems and how many are flat out trouble making rw trolls.
JustAnotherGen
(31,777 posts) I need to listen to America by Prince this morning. 
. Gotta get out Around The World In A Day. Amazing that dropped in 1985. Rah rah Sisk boom bah!
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)they are all rw trolls, although I'm sure there are some who are. I think your posts are really thought provoking and interesting (And I agree with everything you post about racism or sexism). Unfortunately, I think there will always be people who benefit from privilege that will become extremely hostile and defensive when their world view is challenged - on the right or left of the political spectrum. Being on the left doesn't somehow mean they will automatically be able to have some introspection with regards to racism and sexism unfortunately. The right doesn't have a monopoly on jerks.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)'cause that'd make me a big ol' racist. 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025140801
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025069752
BronxBoy
(2,286 posts)I just posted in a thread about the Limbaugh comments that it's funny given the GOP's hand wringing about being more diverse and getting our people to vote GOP, that when we do turn out for a GOP candidate, we get scolded because we didn't vote for the WHITE GOP candidate.
And "Uncle Tom" is a Black pejorative.....What the fuck would Rush know about it???
Baitball Blogger
(46,673 posts)all the more tragic.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Tragic, but not surprising in the least.
Baitball Blogger
(46,673 posts)If you were to look at it from my perspective, what would become clear is that we're all fighting against the same destructive policies. But, minorities have a large stake in the matter because the same process that creates our glass ceilings, also creates opportunities for those who benefit from keeping us out of the discussion. So, those who tell us not to rock the boat, don't create divisions in the party, be good dogs and sit down and stay quiet, are actually adding to our burden.
I mean, who are they trying to appease? People who don't support minority issues? Is that even part of the Democratic platform, anymore? We need to tackle this problem from top to bottom and should be fearless about exposing outdated fiefdoms.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Think about that for two seconds and the answer becomes glaringly apparent. Who is the majority trying to appease by silencing the minority?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)love to lock this, but they sort of fucked themselves with their "anything goes" philosophy.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)You always make me laugh 
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and funny that the angriest most uptight people...... are always telling us to lighten up! :love:
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)The angriest most uptight assholes are the firstto tell righteous people to STFU. They know they cannot win the battle by logic, so they resort to sleazy tactics. Thank goodness for the interweb 
It is easier to spot them after years of online battles. And honestly, they are not that bright 
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)While I wouldn't be particularly inclined to agree with the locking of such a thread, it may very well depend on exactly who posted it; there have, unfortunately, been some real major problems on this site with a certain few malcontents, using the race issue to actually be divisive on this site, including the use of personal attacks, not just against certain users, but against entire groups, or even white folks as a whole.....even if often sugarcoated.
So, with that in mind, I trust the hosts to know what they're doing. Honestly, I'd bet the problem wasn't so much the article itself(after all, nobody likes Rushbo on here!), but perhaps some of the comments. And I've seen some pretty nasty stuff from time to time.
I really don't know what else to say. But I can say that there probably isn't a racist conspiracy afoot on DU or anything, despite what a certain few might have us believe.....
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Pinhead trolls do try that tactic, and perhaps that happened in this case. Still...it needs to be screamed: calling a racist a racist is necessary, important and crucial. The amount of racist garbage we all accept in this country is shameful and appalling. The racist shit we absorb is appalling and we must address it. I know I am preaching to the choir, but spirit is moving me to speak. Racism is an abomination that too many ignore, excuse, or accept as the norm.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)When someone writes about drone strikes, or the TPP, or has an actual policy disagreement with the administration, it's not someone's duty to write "you're just mad because the president is black". Sure, people might argue that they're just "calling out racism", but that's not what's happening at all.
If someone is referring to anything Limbaugh said, though, they're just calling out racism.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)It is not useful to claim all critics of Obama's policies are racists...especially those on the left. There is a small group of people here who believe left-leaning critics of obama are as racist as republicons/teabaggers. I don't believe that.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)"stare rape" crap in order to dismiss all feminist complaints. I have wondered about motive a few times.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Clearly some have agendas. Probably paid, given their devotion and consistency. I have no doubt about that.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Sad to see that hide of yours yesterday!
Betty/ #3
On Wed Jul 2, 2014, 05:05 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
spoken like a true dick
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5184826
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"spoken like a true dick?" Rude and personal attack
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 2, 2014, 05:12 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yep, its a personal attack and there is no need for that.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's true.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This one's an easy hide.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts) but it needed to be said!bettyellen
(47,209 posts)the hosts are not happy I have shared some of their convos about how some of us are better than others.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts) I think I also may be banned soon. I am tired of tiptoeing around sexist, racist assholes. bettyellen
(47,209 posts)of regressive crap designed to bait good Dems. why the hell should we play nice?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)But it needed to be said if only to expose the jury!
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)When it comes to topics about race, gender, and sexual orientation, the exact opposite of what needs to be hidden gets hidden and some of the posts that don't get hidden are atrocious. I really do think there are right wingers on DU gaming the jury system to go against those of us who do not want racism, misogyny, homophobia, or transphobia on DU.
Pointing out racism isn't racism. I don't get that. I'd like to see some of the jurist's explanations too.
