Sometimes i wish more and more people get fired from their jobs

[Joel thakkar]

Sometimes i wish more and more people get fired from their jobs and get replaced by new tech/machines/computers.

Thus, comes a tipping point where big business owners understand that now their customer is not having enough money to buy their products/services and they understand that every adult should be now provided with universal income..

Thus, people can live their life happily and can spend their time on some other creative work or spending more time with family or travelling around and knowing different places.

I know the process will be hard as people starts getting replaced and in the mean while they don't have much option until the politicians under the pressure of large population introduces a universal income.

The only thing which can expedite this process is mass firing of people (which is only possible during few months in deep recession)...or large amount of youth employment (older people getting retired...and now their jobs replaced by machines/tech/computers instead of youth)..

As youth employment is high in many developed countries, eventually, it may go in any of the one directions

1) Youth getting desperate and demanding universal income for them..

2) Industrialist pressuring politicians to removing (or not increasing) the minimum wage + health benefits etc...from the workers. Thus, get they to exploit them so that desperate youth may start working for them on slave wages (which will be low cost or similar cost in comparison to machines/tech/computers)...

Thus, do you think that if we keep fighting for more minimum wage + worker benefits...a scenario 1 (where people get universal income) will come ? or is it just a utopia which will never happen in real life ?

[TBF]

1. Although I can't imagine how some on DU will respond -

I can tell you I get what you are saying.

We have a world of limited resources and pretty crappy ways of organizing our states/politics/economics. Not only are the resources limited, we are currently doing so much damage that we may indeed be an extinct species soon. I argue every day that workers lives are worth something and that we deserve more equality in life on so many levels.

Here on DU a year or two ago someone mentioned Jacque Fresco and his "Venus Project" organization. He articulates what a "resource-based" economy would look like - providing what folks need globally (as opposed to the system of "needs and WANTS" that we are currently subjected to). I think you may find his work interesting - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venus_Project

[seaglass]

2. It is a utopia that will never happen in real life. I would be satisfied with reducing the number

of work hours in the week per person so more people could work as a start.

[The_Commonist]

3. Oh, man... where to begin?

We find ourselves in a civilization where there are way too many people for the systems that we have built. It is unsupportable. It will come to an end soon, one way or another.

While it would be nice for it to come to an end by replacing the current paradigm and set of systems with a more efficient and compassionate system so that "people can live their life happily and can spend their time on some other creative work or spending more time with family or travelling," that ain't gonna happen. There are too many sociopaths at the top who are completely ruthless and are NOT going to give up their privilege and place at the top of the pyramid, so that I can sit around smoking weed and playing the guitar all day.

The only way your Utopia can possibly come about is to remove 2 or 3 billion people from the planet, and there are those who are trying to make that happen.

[Cresent City Kid]

4. Since money is an imaginary concept

Why can't we just imagine everyone has enough for food and shelter? Even a compromised utopia with a clear path to today's reality is unrealistic because of the grip of those happy with the way things are. My father once wrote that the world's problems would be difficult to solve even with everyone on the same page and impossible when they are not.

I used to think that the capitalists wanted to take us back to the 1890's but it's worse than that. The old business model was to make something for a penny and sell it for a nickel with a massive low paid work force making the product. The pool of people buying the product was almost everyone, even poor people could get a nickel. Now computer driven machines replace the work force and some of the products are unattainable to some people. There are companies with less than 20 employees being sold for millions that produce software that I never see because I can't afford a smart phone or high speed internet.

[snooper2]

5. who lot of derp here LOL

[FSogol]

6. The official announcement that Middle School is out for the summer!

[snooper2]

7. I know right! I've got a school zone two blocks from my house, the light not flashing messes me up

I'm like, it's not out right, oh no, the children are FREE!

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. That's one way of describing it.

A lot of people I worked with lost their jobs a couple of months ago, not to technology but due to a corporate realignment -- the company changed its business model. I'm sure they wish they had more of that "imaginary concept" of money to pay the mortgage and buy groceries.

[hunter]

19. I love the "adults in charge" who are driving this bus to hell.

Productivity! Derp. Profits! Derp. Consumers! Derp. Wall Street! Derp. Human exceptionalism! Derp.

One way or another this civilization is going to die. We can put it down gracefully, with minimal damage the human spirit and the natural environment, or we can wait until Mother Nature beats this civilization to death with her big stick, dropping some surprise upon we can't handle. Global Warming? A plague upon ourselves or our major foodstuffs? Ocean acidification? Who knows?

We humans are nothing special. Many very innovative species have experienced exponential population growth in the past, only to crash, usually by extinction, sometimes by evolving and becoming a more cooperative species.

Most of our "economic productivity" is bullshit, hazardous to the natural environment, and toxic to the human spirit.

[Throd]

8. I'm sorry, but that is a pile of naive nonsense.

[closeupready]

9. I disagree, but I do think losing a job is one way many young people

learn how to appreciate a job, rather than take it for granted.

[Orsino]

10. The first part of your wish has been granted.

Not sure about the rest.

[PowerToThePeople]

11. Would be nice. How many Homeless/Starving people will need to be on the streets first?

I think currently a LOT. That is not acceptable to me.

[NM_Birder]

12. lol ..... so I take it you believe the 6.8% unemployment number ?

Mass lay-offs, AND a "universal income" .... government tax funded "universal income" I assume ?
people without jobs could travel, pursue creative projects.

I'd say this was funny as hell, except I suspect you are convinced this will work. this type of economic imagination is what has made my employment more and more secure, and more and more profitable with every new crop of graduates. Once the ACA stops postponing the inevitable, big business will give you your wish, mass lay-offs are just around the corner.....enjoy !



Change. The. Fucking. Foreign. Trade. Policy. To. Support . American. Workers. = economic problem solved.
But, firing em all might work too LOL !

[The_Commonist]

13. My guess would be that Joel is...

...very young and idealistic. Which are both wonderful things to be!

And look at the thing on his journal about Socialism. I love the idea of Socialism, but I'm also well into middle-age, and have grown to be a realist. A jaded realist. My sense is that Joel hasn't experienced the "real world" all that much yet, and therefore is still caught in the sort of academic utopia trap.

And there's nothing wrong with wanting utopia, Joel. I spent 8 years living in communes, sharing income and expenses, trying to build a practical, small-scale utopia. In fact, we published a local newspaper called Utopian Classroom.

While I certainly would love to see "the paradigm shift" happen to make it possible for each of us to pursue our interests, it's going to include a hell of a lot of pain. The sociopaths who control the pyramid are going to make damn sure of it. They want the planet to themselves.

[NM_Birder]

15. why did you leave the communes ?

[NM_Birder]

16. Sorry, hit 'post my reply" too soon

I doubt the rest of the people that agree with Joel in this thread are all very young and idealistic, but they might be,....who knows. Ignorance and youth are well acquainted partners. Ignorance is not always an insult, so try not to take it that way. "Not knowing or understanding" is the same thing as ignorance. We were all ignorant of life when we were very young.

maybe the socialistic notion that the state will provide what the population requires is the new Democratic philosophy ? Eventually, everyone learns either on their own, or by going down "the hard road", that the government is not a parent to become dependant on.

[Romulox]

14. More people being replaced by automation won't be any kind of "tipping point"--it's a narcissistic

fantasy.

The fact is, YOUR job, YOUR family, YOUR neighborhood, YOUR livliehood aren't any more important to the rest of America than mine. And America clearly does not give two fucks about my community (South East Michigan).

Why would you think they will care more about your community than mine? Detroit is the poorest big city in America, for example, and is going through bankruptcy right now. Union workers are in danger of losing their pensions.

Does the Obama administration and the Democratic leadership step in to help? Do the rest of Americans say, "Whoa! We have to change society so that the former 'Arsenal of Democracy' remains viable long into the future!"?

Get real. Nobody give two fucks.

[aikoaiko]

17. Why not just eat people without jobs?