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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums‘They have earned the right not to be listened to’
Posted with permission.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/they-have-earned-the-right-not-be-listened
They have earned the right not to be listened to
06/17/14 10:07 AMUpdated 06/17/14
By Steve Benen
In mid-January 2002, the Weekly Standard published a piece from Robert Kagan and Bill Kristol on the need for a U.S. invasion to topple Saddam Husseins regime in Iraq. The headline read, What to do about Iraq.
Yesterday, the exact same publication published a piece from the exact same authors with a headline that was almost exactly the same: What to do in Iraq.
James Fallows mocked the discredited conservatives, highlighting their consistency in attitude as well as typography and headline writing and page layout, before lowering the boom.
None of these people did that intentionally, and many of them have honestly reflected and learned. But we now live with (and many, many people have died because of) the consequences of their gross misjudgments a dozen years ago. In the circumstances, they might have the decency to shut the hell up on this particular topic for a while. They helped create the disaster Iraqis and others are now dealing with. They have earned the right not to be listened to.
And yet, listening to them has become harder than avoiding them. As Rachel noted on the show last night, the very same people who were disastrously wrong about what it would mean for the United States to toss a match into the tinderbox of the Middle East by toppling Saddam, all those guys who were so wrong, they either never went away in the first place or they have recently been dug back up over the last few weeks, simply for the purpose of arguing that we ought to invade Iraq again.
Ive seen some suggest that those who got U.S. policy in Iraq completely wrong in 2002 and 2003 need not wear a permanent scar. Its not an entirely unreasonable point some sensible people fell for a con job. They know better now and want to contribute to a constructive conversation about U.S. foreign policy more than a decade later. Its hardly ridiculous to think some of them should have a voice in the discussion.
But thats not quite whats happening here.
When we see Kristol, Kagan, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, Paul Bremer, Ken Pollack and their cohorts all over the print and broadcast media, their chosen task is not to be the target of rotten vegetables. Rather, these men still choose to present themselves as experts whose advice has merit.
It would be challenging in its own right if, say, Paul Wolfowitz showed up on a Sunday show to declare, Look, my buddies and I may have flubbed U.S. policy in Iraq the last time around, but were totally right this time. But neither he nor his pals are saying anything of the kind the usual suspects still think they were right in 2002 and 2003, and cant imagine why their words of wisdom would be ignored now.
Accountability may seem like a quaint, almost antiquated, concept in todays political discourse, but thats a shame. When life and death decisions are being made, heres hoping accountability can still make a comeback, forcing the discredited voices among us towards obscurity.
Im not arguing that everyone who was wrong about Iraq 11 years ago must remain silent now. I am saying that those who were wrong then but remain convinced of their own self-righteous credibility now, certain that the 2003 invasion was wise and that Iraqs deterioration should be blamed on that rascally President Obama, all they are doing is embarrassing themselves and annoying the rest of us.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)ThoughtCriminal
(14,050 posts)A person who has the ability to be wrong about everything 100% of the time should be considered a National Treasure!
He is the ultimate Anti-Oracle. A resource that we can go to anytime and find out exactly what not to do, when not to do it and what the wrong reasons are.
Other people can be wrong, but Kristol's consistent ability to really blow it on issues large and small are probably unmatched in modern history.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)"Annoyed"?!?!? Are you fucking kidding me?
I'm not fucking "annoyed", I'm fucking OUTRAGED that these fucking assholes have the fucking NERVE to show up again and apparently think that they ought to be fucking listened to, for fucksakes!!1 And I'm fucking OUTRAGED that our fucking corporate media is giving these fucking assholes ANY credibility whatsoever!
"Embarrassing themselves"? Don't make me laugh. These guys wouldn't know embarrassment or shame if they were clubbed on the head with it by a nail-studded 2x4. They are the ultimate in self-righteous arrogance and wrong-headedness. The only way to inculcate the least bit of self-doubt in these fucking assholes would be to turn them loose in Mosul to face the fucking jihadis that their fucked up policies helped create. And NO Special Forces rescuing their fucking worthless asses!
LuvNewcastle
(16,864 posts)"None of these people did that intentionally, and many of them have honestly reflected and learned."
They fucking knew what they were doing, especially Kristol. They are neocons, and they were acting as mouthpieces for the Bush administration. Don't tell me it was unintentional! They would do it again, and again. They don't care about lives lost, all they care about is their cause, which was outlined years before the Iraq War happened.
bluesbassman
(19,385 posts)malaise
(269,256 posts)as I type
babylonsister
(171,106 posts)senseandsensibility
(17,201 posts)I remember when he was a spokesmodel reading cue cards for true crime shows. Just stood there like a stick reading in an expressionless voice words that had probably been written for him. Wonder how he got his job? The rest of my post stands, and I have little hope for him.
Cha
(297,935 posts)You're back! He sounds like a major tool. I don't own a tv so I just read about him. I would have thought a son of Mario could do better, though.
today's serenity prayer..
pourmecoffee ✔ @pourmecoffee
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Today's Serenity Prayer
God grant me the serenity to accept Bush neocons opining on Iraq and the wisdom not to shatter my TV.
Amen.
2:19 AM - 17 Jun 2014
327 Retweets 303 favorites
TOD
senseandsensibility
(17,201 posts)I decided not to take this place too seriously. Your serenity prayer will be a great help in that regard. Thanks!
Cha
(297,935 posts)UR Welcome~