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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOn Being Called a "Girly-girl"
Last edited Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:16 PM - Edit history (1)
A few weeks ago, my son took me to see Ray LaMontagne perform. It was an awfully nice thing of him to do and we had a good time. In the car, on the long drive home, we were talking about this woman he's been involved with. Apropos of I'm not sure what, he said: "Well, you don't really understand her. She's not a girly-girl like you.
My initial reaction to his comment was umbrage and knee jerk denial.
A few days later I was at home trying on a funky vintage dress with new to me used shoes I'd just bought for a happy song from someone on Ebay and I started laughing- at myself. And then I started thinking about why his remark had offended me.
When you hear the term girly-girl, I think it's safe to say that you don't think "tough, smart, capable woman". More likely you think pink frills, manicures and frivolous.
I have never had a manicure. I loath frills- on cushions or clothes, and though I can certainly be frivolous, I consider myself fairly intelligent. I can argue politics as well as anyone. I love hardware stores almost as much as vintage clothes and rearranging stuff in my home. I read voraciously- and not romance novels. I'm athletic and physically pretty damn strong.
My son knows all this so I don't think he meant to imply that I'm not smart or strong.
If he meant to say "you're interested in things that are considered feminine pursuits, he's right. I love playing with clothes, for example- though my fingernails are (at least in spring and summer) rimmed with stubborn garden dirt and I think manicures for me would be a complete bust.
So on rethinking it, I'll own the girly-girl label. But only if I get to define what it means.
Cross-posted in the Writing Forum
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Kids should know they're free to wear what they like, style their hair how they like, and participate in playtime activities they like, without the idea that these things are either 'girl' things or 'boy' things.
cali
(114,904 posts)and have been for a long time. So gay folks shouldn't use the word queer because that has had negative associations and reinforces an "image".
I'm a feminist. I'm an individual. And no fucking one controls my use of language but me. That doesn't preclude avoiding words that offend a given group of people. I choose not to do that, but frankly, I'll define myself as I wish.
Period.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I hate that it's normal to call grown women 'girls'.
cali
(114,904 posts)so what? and the term "girly-girl" isn't quite the same as being called a girl.
Again, I'll decide what my lexicon is and I damn well won't let society or anyone do it for me.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Seriously, WTF is your problem?
cali
(114,904 posts)DU's political correctness around language is interesting to me. And why the hell wouldn't I defend the pov I expressed in the OP?????
lumpy
(13,704 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)if they like something that's "girly" or "macho" or whatever. They're stupid, meaningless terms and they cause actual harm.
But hey, whatever floats your boat. No need to get all aggro about it.
cali
(114,904 posts)them. and when purging language I think it behooves us to proceed (most of the time) carefully.
And sorry, I'm not "aggro" about it (don't like that word) I just don't like zealotry.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)And it's not zealotry, it's progress.
Gender norms are bullshit. And just like those who said 'oh you'll never stop bullying', those who now claim that we'll never get rid of gender conditioning will see that their complacence isn't shared by all. Thankfully.
karadax
(284 posts)My daughter that's nearly 5 gets this label a lot. All she does is enjoy the outdoors, play with tadpoles and holds her own with the active boys. She wears dresses and likes nail polish.
If girly girl is too much in one direction while a tomboy is too far in the other, what's supposed to be in the middle ? Has that been defined ?
alarimer
(16,245 posts)The policing of gender norms is what is harmful, not what actually interests someone.
I was (still am) a tomboy. I played with cars when I was a kid (my parents, fortunately, did not try to force me to do anything else). Hate dressing up (so I work in a field in which shorts and t-shirts are everyday attire), work outdoors, get messy, etc. I have always resented the implication that I was supposed to be different than I am. I have been accused being a lesbian because of how I dress or what I do (which is offensive mainly because of the stereotype).
I love it when kids are interested in the outdoors. I still have a childlike interest in bugs, tadpoles, snakes, fish, birds, all of nature really. May your daughter never lose that.
cali
(114,904 posts)and building stuff and vintage clothes and and and. I can define myself as I wish. So can you. and examining what offends one and why is something I recommend heartily- and that's what the essay is about.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)intaglio
(8,170 posts)Or go "Meh" or hate him. Let's just say that to those who like his work she is an icon.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)She got the which of the what-she-did,
Hid the bell with a blot, she did,
But she fell in love with a hominid.
Where is the which of the what-she-did?
from The Ballad Of Lost C'mell
She was a girly girl and they were true men, the lords of creation, but she pitted her wits against them and she won. It had never happened before, and it is sure never to happen again, but she did win. She was not even of human extraction. She was cat-derived, though human in outward shape, which explains the C in front of her name. Her father's name was C'mackintosh and her name C'mell. She won her tricks against the lawful and assembled Lords of the Instrumentality.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)But "girly-girl" won't be a job description for thousands of years yet, so I was guessing that wasn't what cali meant.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)The term didn't exist prior to the late 90's.
Anyway, be who you are - manly girl, girly man, androgyne, who cares.
cali
(114,904 posts)and if it resonates- in any way- that's interesting to me.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)write about me- could be an essay on an obscure French Historian or Art or.... who knows what will capture the interest of my magpie brain next?
cali
(114,904 posts)I remember hearing it when I was a kid in the 1960s and according to etymology sites, it far predates that.
Democrats_win
(6,539 posts)According to this website some character calls Marion the Librarian girly girl.
http://www.funtrivia.com/en/Movies/Music-Man-The-3604.html
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Orrex
(63,261 posts)I pulled up to the corner at the end of my block
That's when I saw this beautiful girlie girl walking
I picked up my car phone to perpetrate like I was talking
The world changed in 1988. Who could hear these words and not be transfigured?
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)and of course, as I stated, I don't like frills- and I don't like Doris Day coy- I was never a DD fan, or being caught in any rigid construct.
did you miss the part where I say I get to define the term?
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Truly.
Maybe you'd like this song better:
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)and I smiled.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)and I differentiate between my "writing" posts and my political posting.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)You're posting both in the same place, though, you see. DU is a political forum. As someone who makes his living by writing, I understand that words are words. You put some words together, and sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes, it doesn't. And sometimes, it's just nonsense. But, DU is DU. Whatever words you post here are posted in public and everyone has an opportunity to respond to them.
You might differentiate between your posts. That's fine. That, however, doesn't compel others to do so.
This thread is about the words, "girly girl." It's amazing how many references there are to that term. Lots of songs. Lots of writings, too. You added to that. I commented on your addition to the collection of "girly girl" references.
In another thread, you repeated some words someone else wrote about Hillary Clinton. I commented in that thread, too. I like DU. I read a lot of threads, especially in GD. You post; I reply. I post; you reply. Like the Hokey Pokey, that's what it's all about.
lumpy
(13,704 posts)Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)I don't see anything wrong with the term. I like "girly" things -- make-up; perfumes and scented candles and potpourri; pink is my all-time favorite color and a lot of my wardrobe is some variant of pink; I'm into clothes and all my clothes, even lounging about the house clothes, have to match; and I epitomize the stereotype of women and shoes. I love getting new shoes!
And yes, I do think there are some things that are "girly" and some things that are "boyish" (although I would never say that either sex should be excluded by any means from either just because they're the wrong sex).
And, I'm a Democrat. I'm a girly-girl Democrat. And there you have it.
ProfessorGAC
(65,337 posts)Anytime one defines one's self, it is likely healthy, unless it's completely delusional. (Manson, for example, thought he was a great man. That was his self-definition, but delusional)
My wife is kind of like you. She's never been a shoe nut, though. Even less so as we've gotten older. But, she did like dressing up a lot when we were younger. We were a "to the nines" couple for a really long time.
Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)Don't get to do it much any more with children, although I hope we can more now that they're older (and if the $$ is available).
And DH in a tuxedo? (swoon)
Raine
(30,541 posts)Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)I thought nothing of tiling my own kitchen, laundry room, & two bathrooms. My husband & I worked together laying out the wood floors in our living room & bedrooms. I can use woodworking tools as well as a man could.
At the same time, I love pretty clothes, I like my hair looking nice, & I like an understated amount of make-up when I go out.
I've had Democratic ideals since I was a young child & no one can take that away from me.
hunter
(38,340 posts)And I'm a guy.
"Queerbait" was the name that stuck, until I quit high school and my testicles woke up.
My family is a Wild West matriarchy, going way back, and it still is.
Any girly-girls among them is an act. I've one sister who was a cheerleader and aspiring Hollywood actress. She could play athletic ditsy beach blonde well. She has screen credits. She's now a firefighter-paramedic.
I have a large handful of nieces who can handle difficult horses ordinary men are scared of.
My mom is girly-girly and now an eccentric little old lady in ordinary life. But she has always been full-out berserker in rougher situations. She will take your guns. All the women in her family were like that. My great grandmas were all scary strong women, four for four.
This great grandpa was just a mining engineer. Great grandma would kill any bad man.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Thanks for sharing. I'd love to read more about the women in your family. They sound like very strong, independent women. I like it when women don't attempt to fit any preconceived notions dictated by the human species and just do what needs to be done.
Response to cali (Original post)
La Lioness Priyanka This message was self-deleted by its author.
TygrBright
(20,776 posts)I'll own ANY label, if I'm allowed to define what it means, and everyone else understands that definition.
Alas that it doesn't work that way.
regretfully,
Bright
seaglass
(8,173 posts)population that the labels have a new meaning.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)nothing wrong with either of them.
lumpy
(13,704 posts)Done it all. I would have just giggled like one if someone called me a Girly Girl.
malaise
(269,256 posts)and I love pedicures and manicures.
I am not a feminist but I am a strong female. I use gloves in the garden.
I love dressing up sometimes and I also like make up although I don't wear it often because it is very expensive.