The people who jumped on Hillary for her statements on religion now look pretty silly

[Cali_Democrat]

Especially considering Elizabeth Warren's comments on religion and the bible.

Let's be real here, most politicians like Warren and Clinton will openly discuss their religion and relationship with god. It would be rather unusual for a major politician to be an atheist. Even Dennis Kucinich attends mass.

I think this is a good lesson for some folks. Before you dive into a topic head first, you might wanna do a little more research.

Cheers!

[flamingdem]

1. Hell will freeze over

if an atheist ever gets elected in the USA.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

43. Well, at least one who admits it.

[arcane1]

62. Indeed. I believe every president after Reagan has been an atheist.

[GoneOffShore]

65. Reagan may have said he was a xtian, but we all know

he worshipped at the altar of The Old Ones.

[Prophet 451]

77. Even W?

[Scratchem]

58. Specifically to POTUS or any national level position?

[tritsofme]

2. It has been a Jeremiah Wright moment for the anti-Hillary brigade

Pathetic.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. To equate Rev Wright to the bigot Doug Coe is a slander of Wright.

Jeremiah Wright is an inclusive minister, who does not oppose any group and advocates equality for all people. Doug Coe is an active anti gay bigot.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

37. +1.

The conflation of Hillary merely being a religious person and the godawful Dominionist group with whom she has associated herself for decades is mind-boggling.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying the Bible influences you strongly. There are lots of parts of the Bible that deal with poverty, social justice, environmentalism. You don't necessarily have to be strongly influenced by the violent and bigoted parts.

But to claim that her association with the 'mentor' Coe - a hate-filled homophobe authoritarian theocrat - is anything like Obama associating with a liberation theology minister is to be completely ignorant of what the two different religious figures preach and believe.

[Jackpine Radical]

47. The Family was founded as an anti-labor, anti-FDR force.

Labor unions are instruments of Satan, ya know, because they incite the masses against their betters, thereby upsetting th eDivine Order of things.

[billhicks76]

66. Hillary More Disingenuous

People will jump on her more because you can feel her insincerity more when she speaks. It's that simple.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

68. She's a politician, first and foremost.

Some people just don't find that a positive. I, for one, am fine having people in office who aren't primarily politicians, but are simply in office to try and reach specific goals for the people. I'm even leaning towards thinking that term limits are a really good idea, so that for at least half of the time they're in office, they're actually more interested in doing things for the people, rather than getting re-elected.

[billhicks76]

74. Politicians Are Despised

...throughout history that's true. And for good reason. But she is on the far end of no good. I really like Gavin Newsome but someone pointed out he's related to Ron Pelosi through marriage. But I still think he's great. If he backtracks later then I'll start believing something more unknown and sinister us going on but until then I would love Warren/Newsome 2016. You heard it here first just in case

[freshwest]

20. Yes, pitchforks for everyone that ever worked in D.C. or attended a prayer breakfast.

Or even worked with public social service that use volunteers who do work for free that come from local churches.

[Hekate]

46. Tar and feathers and ride 'em out of town on a rail, that's the ticket

[hrmjustin]

3. Personally I couldn't care less whether a candidate is a believer or not.

I vote on issues.

[Logical]

7. "Couldn't care less" you mean! nt

[hrmjustin]

11. Thanks.

[PDJane]

50. I would frankly prefer a non-believer.

Barring that, I would prefer someone who compartmentalizes their religion, keeping it far away from their political life.

Religion and politics make very dangerous bedfellows.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. You assume folks who oppose Hillary favor Warren?

Warren was a Republican during the Reagan era, when good people were protesting deadly Reagan policy. Warren has never commented on the racism or homophobia of her former Party.
Both of them would have to do some good talking to win my trust.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. Of course one can oppose or support both at the same time

I forgot the Warren was a Republican. I'm sure is she was asked, she would denounce the bigotry within her former party.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. She has been asked, and she said she left the GOP only over differences about 'markets'

she does not even seem to be aware of the bigotry and racism which her former Party is so well known for. Why should anyone have to ask her specifically about the bigotry? Is she comfortable being associated with that stuff? Why is she not energized with a desire to explain her personal growth? Why does she say 'differences about markets' was the reason she left an anti choice, anti gay, racist Party?
I await her word as I do Hillary's. Right now I am not persuaded that either of them are equality minded at all.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. You had better watch out ...

Didn't you get the memo ... the only thing of importance is Warren ' s economic policy positions.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. +100

But psssst - I have the same questions bnorthwest. She didn't flip until the mid 1990's.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. I don't really have a problem

With her gop past; however, I am unprepared to anoint her as president until I her her position on the other 70% of what the president must concern his/her self with ... including the racial stuff.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. And totally in agreement with that too!

I have a right to know that stuff too!

But I definitely have issues with the time she flipped . . . It's when I came of age.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. Republicans of her Republican era were awful, racist, homophobic and anti choice.

She was one of them, I was one of the people protesting them. Hard to vote for that.

[JustAnotherGen]

34. I can't get past

Anyone who proudly voted for Reagan. I mean - I can.

But I question their commitment to inclusion. I would need to see hands on in the street activism from them.

There are too many folks in her age group that WERE out marching and raising hell and not being 'go along to get along' types.

There's no excuse.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. I don't take 'memos'

I think for myself. Warren was a Republican during years when I was constantly protesting Republican policy, which was racist and hugely bigoted toward gay people. This was the early time of the AIDS crisis when the LGBT and African American communities were being destroyed while the Republicans refused to lift a finger because they were happy to see the deaths on our communities.
Anyone who was a Republican then is highly suspect to me, I just like Hillary and her relationship to the Family, I find it unacceptable. Both of them need to speak in great detail about these things or both of them can forget my primary support. I am not currently persuaded that either of them has the interests of my community in their minds at all.
Of course, in every general election I have had to vote for candidates who sneer at equality for LGBT people, so I'm used to it, but I won't do that any more in a primary.

[1StrongBlackMan]

23. I was kidding ...

That's why I put the thingy.

[DrDan]

6. I thought they looked "pretty silly" a few days ago

and I do not think I am alone

[Scootaloo]

10. As another poster pointed put in that thread...

"important to me" <> "biggest influence on my thinking" n/t

Plus as has often been pointed out, Warren's not running for president, but it's pretty evident Clinton is.

Warren also cites specific scripture in support of a progressive position. Clinton just said "the bible." Could be Matthew 25:40 like Warren... could be Habakkuk 2:2, who knows?

At any rate. Bronze-age fantasy is bronze-age fantasy. If someone wants to impress me with their belief in lurid imaginings from that era, i want them to cite The Golden Ass. or at least show me they can pronounce "Apuleius."

[MattBaggins]

12. Thank you for your scolding aunt nanny

[Whisp]

13. Warren isn't a proven liar.

Nor an idiot that would have believed the Idiot Son's hawts for war in Iraq.

Sorry, these are two completely different people - just because they are both democrats and both white and both women does not mean they came out of the same cookie cutter.

[el_bryanto]

14. Some people believe that religion is always sweetness and light and good

Some people believe that religion is always sour and dark and evil

Neither viewpoint seems to fit the observable facts.

Bryant

[freshwest]

17. More than one kind of dogma. You win the thread.

[NCTraveler]

29. Very simple and correct. nt.

[riqster]

55. S'truth.

There exists a Church that tortured and murdered untold numbers of Jews, and also feeds millions of starving people. It's the Roman Catholic Church.

Black and white can make a bold fashion statement, but it sucks when evaluating morality.

[Arugula Latte]

63. ...and has contributed to creating untold numbers of starving people by condemning birth control.

[riqster]

79. Speaking as a Huguenot, don't expect a ringing endorsement of those popish motherfuckers from me.

My point is, they are not 100% evil. 80+%, maybe.

But it ain't a binary solution set.

[cali]

15. not at all. and comparing Warren's comments with Hillary's transparent

pandering comments and her long, long history with the right wingnut insane religious fucks of The Fellowship is also transparent.

I've done the research. YOU have not. this is just pro-hilly propaganda.

[Cali_Democrat]

19. "pro-hilly propaganda"

LOL.

You've become a parody of yourself.

[NCTraveler]

27. This. nt.

[rhett o rick]

35. And of course, right to the ad hominem attack. nm

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. Exactly

Free Republic would love Cali's work! They are so anti Hillary they would agree with everything being said.....all day every day....day in and day out ad nauseum.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. says

the most vitriolic campaigner against HRC on DU.

[hobbit709]

24. That's the LEAST of my reasons for not supporting her.

[madfloridian]

25. Head first?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025106628

No not really.

Hillary's religion is her business. But The Family is about more than that.

[msanthrope]

30. I would have used another body part, but that's me. nt

[NCTraveler]

26. They don't care if they look silly. nt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. ideologues never do!

[leftyohiolib]

28. doing research cuts into my outrage time. if i do reseach i wont have time to leap to

conclusions, fly off the handle , and 'what if' myself into a frenz... you know the du way to discussion board posting

[savalez]

72. lol

[William769]

33. kick & recommended.

[Trajan]

36. No ... we don't look silly

We look principled ... as if we had our own thoughts about the subject matter, and didn't fear discussing our differences ....

And thanks - now I know that Sen Warren has questionable judgement as well ...

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. you think my grandparents were not good Democrats because they went to Church?

isnt that what you are really saying?

[ladjf]

76. No. That's not anyone was saying. nt

[rhett o rick]

40. So you arent defending H. Clinton's relationship with the The Family

you are simply trying to equate it with Sen Warren's mentioning the bible?

[Thespian2]

41. To know that Willy and Hilly

kissed Doug Coe's ass is enough. The Family is beneficial to creating America's Oligarchy...so support Hilly and be part of the dominant 1%.

[Thinkingabout]

44. A lot posted here has been to throw stones at Hillary, mostly by the EW crowd,

And the same stones also has Hillary and EW names on them which doesn't make sense to be throwing at either on this site.

[NightWatcher]

45. So we are already down to only those two candidates?

And if we say something critical of one it automatically means that we are a shill for the other one who supports 100% of what they do?


No one has entered the race yet, although it does look like Hillary may be positioning herself to run.


Boy, how I do love the Silly Season around here.....which hasn't even started yet.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. there is much more than critical and this meme proves THAT!

[seveneyes]

51. Science got us where we are now, not faith in the unknown

Half the population are not ready for reality.

[Waiting For Everyman]

52. The silliest false equivalence of 2014.

Warren's being a Christian is not a defense for Hillary's intimate and sustained involvement in The Family / Fellowship. Some of us can tell the difference between those two things.

And we vote.

Cheers!

[AtheistCrusader]

53. Why is it all better just because more than just Hillary does it?

You lost me there.

[wyldwolf]

54. I've mentioned twice in the last several days...

When the oppo-research on Warren hits, the anti-Hillary folks will be on lockdown as they put out fires... twisting, parsing...

[wyldwolf]

56. oh, and a kick and rec

[KamaAina]

57. Dennis Kucinich is a devout enough Catholic

that he was anti-choice. Right up until he developed national ambitions.

[rickyhall]

59. As usual

2016 will be another lesser of 2 evils contest as it always is.

I actually thought 2000 would be different but the RaygunBush SC blew that.

[blkmusclmachine]

60. N/A

[elias49]

61. I didn't jump on Hillary, but...

I wonder why it took 25 years to find that out. And she's been in the public eye that long, plus.

Oh. Must mean the answer is; "YES. I'm running for the dem nomination for POTUS!

[hamsterjill]

64. I respect that there are many atheists and/or agnostics on DU.

But the vast majority of Americans believe in a higher power. Therefore, it's certainly not unheard of that Hillary and Elizabeth, both, would have religious beliefs and practices.

Condemning someone for those beliefs and practices sure isn't very "liberal" in my opinion. Each individual should be able to believe/not believe as they see fit.

[Peacetrain]

69. ^^^^^^^

[savalez]

75. +1

[JDPriestly]

67. Correct. Both Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton are religious.

And both are also rational people.

Elizabeth Warren spent her adult life working and living a normal American life. She taught law and researched bankruptcy and the financial problems of ordinary Americans.

Hillary Clinton spent her life practicing law in a big law firm then being married to a governor and president, serving in the Senate and hobnobbing with the rich and famous.

Elizabeth Warren learned to make decisions based on numbers, facts, evidence.

Hillary Clinton learned to make decisions based on political considerations. What would the military think and say if she told them that the Iraq War was a mistake? Shame on Hillary Clinton. What good is it to be religious if you worship the opinions of the military leaders and allow their feelings to govern what you think and say?

Religion should inspire social and personal values. How could someone vote for the Iraq War if their religion is guiding their thinking?

[Phlem]

70. apples and oranges

one does the walk the other just talks and likes money a whole heck of a lot!

[gcomeau]

71. One correction...

"It would be rather unusual for a major politician to admit to being an atheist."

Fix in bold...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

73. Is Elizabeth Warren linked to Coe / The Family / C Street?

Frat House for Jesus

I may have missed that thread.

[baldguy]

78. Research? When there's a chance to mindlessly attack a mainstream Democrat?

[MisterP]

80. Warren showed how the Bible and its interpretation motivated her political actions

Hillary used it as a bloody shirt to wave in a bid for votes so crass it'd make Nixon itchy

she's not the one coming out looking good in this one

[LostOne4Ever]

81. How so?

From the threads I have seen, the accusation against Hillary were that she was pandering. Not that she was faking her religion, that other politicians can't be devout, or that other politicians can't also pander.

How does Warren's comments in anyway prove that Clinton wasn't pandering?

It would be rather unusual for a major politician to be an atheist.

And here is the heart of the manner. Every democratic nominee needs to make it perfectly clear to the public that they are not atheists, no matter how devout they are or are not. This country is just not tolerant enough to accept us non-believers as a possible president.

Maybe, just maybe, this is part of the reason some posters found the comments so annoying?