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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFareed Zakaria: Who lost Iraq? The Iraqis did, with an assist from George W. Bush
FAREED ZAKARIA Opinion writer
It is becoming increasingly likely that Iraq has reached a turning point. The forces hostile to the government have grown stronger, better equipped and more organized. And having now secured arms, ammunition and hundreds of millions of dollars in cash from their takeover of Mosul Iraqs second-largest city they will build on these strengths. Inevitably, in Washington, the question has surfaced: Who lost Iraq?
Whenever the United States has asked this question as it did with China in the 1950s or Vietnam in the 1970s the most important point to remember is: The local rulers did. The Chinese nationalists and the South Vietnamese government were corrupt, inefficient and weak, unable to be inclusive and unwilling to fight with the dedication of their opponents. The same story is true of Iraq, only much more so. The first answer to the question is: Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki lost Iraq.
The prime minister and his ruling party have behaved like thugs, excluding the Sunnis from power, using the army, police forces and militias to terrorize their opponents. The insurgency the Maliki government faces today was utterly predictable because, in fact, it happened before. From 2003 onward, Iraq faced a Sunni insurgency that was finally tamped down by Gen. David Petraeus, who said explicitly at the time that the core element of his strategy was political, bringing Sunni tribes and militias into the fold. The surges success, he often noted, bought time for a real power-sharing deal in Iraq that would bring the Sunnis into the structure of the government.
A senior official closely involved with Iraq in the Bush administration told me, Not only did Maliki not try to do broad power-sharing, he reneged on all the deals that had been made, stopped paying the Sunni tribes and militias, and started persecuting key Sunni officials. Among those targeted were the vice president of Iraq and its finance minister.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-who-lost-iraq-the-iraqis-did-with-an-assist-from-george-w-bush/2014/06/12/35c5a418-f25c-11e3-914c-1fbd0614e2d4_story.html?
randome
(34,845 posts)What America did to Iraq is unforgivable. What Iraqis are doing to themselves is worse.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
To me what we did was worse because we were the impetus to this whole shit storm. If we had never INVADED a soverign country, we wouldn't have wrecked their poliltical system and the civil war wouldn't be full on. If we hadn't always been so anti-Sunni and pro Shiite, again this wouldn't be happening. We created the vacuum and did a fucked up job of making sure it was filled from all parties. We selected folks we thought would be pro letting us steal their oil - excuse me - Bushco selected them - and their country has reaped the whirlwind we started. And we didn't even get the oil - epic fail by chimpie and Darth.
randome
(34,845 posts)Sure, Hussein kept the piece (and we screwed that up) but they are choosing to go on killing sprees now. It's not like they want to spread peace and contentment to the 4 corners of Iraq or anything.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
JI7
(89,281 posts)for examples of how they may still have been in a mess. maybe even worse in Iraq .
but at least it would have been THEIR fight. there was no excuse for us ever going in there.
lark
(23,182 posts)EVER. So sickening that the same group that got us in there is now pushing really hard to get us back there. WE didn't get the oil the first time, so we need to go back and finish the job??
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)sums up the history and current situation very, very well.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)Excellent...Go Iran!! vs ISIS
Baitball Blogger
(46,775 posts)Iraq to suddenly be on the agenda to finish off what Bush I and Bush II started.
GeorgeGist
(25,326 posts)he was a warmonger when it was cool.
Boomerproud
(7,975 posts)but it's slightly better than Politico's "The GOP says I told you so" garbage piece. He needs to fax this to McCain pronto.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)smallcat88
(426 posts)of hearing the war hawks saying we left too soon or we should go back - totally ignoring the obvious fact that we never should have gone in the first place!
We've caused far too many problems around the world by invading countries for our own reasons (forget what was said publicly) with lousy or no real exit strategy. We go in under the guise of solving their problems and instead make them worse. Can an entire country get hit with karma? If so, we've got some doozy karma headed our way.
90-percent
(6,829 posts)is actually Duesy - after the magnificent coach build racing engineered Duesenberg autos of the depression era.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesenberg
Sorry. Car guy. Had to do it.
-90% Jimmy
smallcat88
(426 posts)though the spell check did agree with me.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)but if that hammer didn't hit their head enough the shoe thrown around the world sure should have broken both of their noses
blackspade
(10,056 posts)We could have had partners in Iraq's rebuilding but we squandered even that small ray of sunshine in the total shitstorm that was the invasion.
We never should have gone there in the first place. The Bush Cabal with a hearty assist from the SCOTUS has fucked America for the next two generations.
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)rec.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Bush and the warmongers left Iraq in the hands of Iran. When you look at this map, is it any wonder there is now a strong Sunni insurgency? Wanna take a guess who is funding it?
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)Here is my original post:
Did Zakaria endorse the initial invasion? I hear him a lot on NPR these days, and he strikes me as smart, if not particularly progressive.
I didn't know who he was back in 2002-03. But NPR was certainly full of warmongers and B*sh flacks and flunkies back then.
On-edit, I decided to research the question for myself, and the Wiki page lays it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fareed_Zakaria
What a horrible, short-sighted perspective he had:
Zakaria initially supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[17] He said at the time, "The place is so dysfunctional... any stirring of the pot is good. America's involvement in the region is for the good."[17] He argued for a United Nations-sanctioned operation with a much larger forceapproximately 400,000 troopsthan was actually employed by the administration of President George W. Bush.
-app
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)TNR listed him as one of DC's over-rated thinkers in 2011...I happen to agree.
Fareed Zakaria is enormously important to an understanding of many things, because he provides a one-stop example of conventional thinking about them all. He is a barometer in a good suit, a creature of establishment consensus, an exemplary spokesman for the always-evolving middle. He was for the Iraq war when almost everybody was for it, criticized it when almost everybody criticized it, and now is an active member of the ubiquitous declining American power chorus. When Obama wanted to trust the Iranians, Zakaria agreed (They May Not Want the Bomb, was a story he did for Newsweek); and, when Obama learned different, Zakaria thought differently. Theres something suspicious about a thinker always so perfectly in tune with the moment. Most of Zakarias appeal is owed to the A-list aura that he likes to give offAt the influential TED conference ... began a recent piece in The New York Times. On his CNN show, he ingratiates himself to his high-powered guests. This mix of elitism and banality is unattractive. And so is this: My friends all say Im going to be Secretary of State, Zakaria told New York magazine in 2003. But I dont see how that would be much different from the job I have now. Zakaria later denied making those remarks.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/96141/over-rated-thinkers?page=0,1
He's an elitist with his finger in the wind. Also, anyone who is part of the Council of Foreign Relations is communing with a nest of vipers.
momrois
(98 posts)Mika did her best to put him on the spot. He's leaves out the part that Zakaria mentions about agreements. He's just nuts, and keeps saying "I told you so" throughout. It's getting sad.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mccain-fire-obama-national-security-team-280256579842
JI7
(89,281 posts)but people just ignore most of it and go on with what they are doing.
Justice
(7,188 posts)I didn't know Maliki spent 15 years in Iran and Syria.
wholly crap.