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Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:31 AM

There actually *are* real neo-Nazi putschists in charge in Ukraine. (But it's not who you think.)

For months now, the narrative pushed heavily by Russian state media--and then parroted ad naseum by western conspiracy theory minded individuals--was that the events leading up to former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych fleeing the country (oil painting and antique collection in hand) constituted a "coup" and/or a "putsch." Specifically, that various figures from the U.S. State Department and other western interests allegedly colluded with Ukrainian ultranationalists to forcibly remove Yanukovych from power and replace them with patsies of their own to serve their own corporate interests.

Never mind the presence of enormous protests of thousands of ordinary Ukrainians who had legitimate concerns about Yanukovych's corruption and willingness to cozy up with a country that subtly denies Ukraine's very existence. Never mind that no one--and I mean no one--has been able to describe exactly how this supposed "coup" took place, and that video evidence of Yanukovych casually having his mansion packed up over the course of three days before flying away in his personal fleet of helicopters belies the idea that an actual coup occurred. To these people, there was a "coup" and apparently there's no dissuading them against it.

Also central to the narrative is that subsequent to the change in power, the Ukrainian government has fallen into the clutches of violent fascist neo-Nazis who have engaged in a reign of terror over the country who are now "massacring" peaceful pro-Russian "protesters" and "activists." They have pointed to events such as deadly mob riots between pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian demonstrators in the city of Odessa back in May, transforming that unfortunate event where both sides were arguably to blame for the violence into a unilateral slaughter of "anti-fascists" by "neo-Nazis" with references aplenty to pogroms of years ago. For the narrative pushers, there has been an entire cottage industry of World War II era references and continuous name-dropping of the long-dead and highly controversial and extremely polarizing Ukrainian nationalist figure Stephen Bandera from that time period.

Key to the "neo-Nazi" and "fascist" narrative is the Ukrainian political party Svoboda, super all-powerful non-holders of 17 of 20 seats in Ukrainian's cabinet and 414 of 449 seats in its parliament and whose candidate, together with that of fellow ultranationalist party Right Sector--gathered a whopping 2% of the popular vote in the May 25th presidential elections.

Interestingly enough, there is at least one neo-Nazi putschist in a position of high power inside the borders of Ukraine. But it isn't who you think.

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Pavel Gubarev, the self-proclaimed "People's Governor of Donetsk" who is one of the top figures leading armed separatists in their fight for that region to leave Ukraine and unite with Russia:

(And yes, the new flag of "Novorossiya" is directly patterned after the US Confederate Battle Flag. Because heritage, not hate. )

Before Gubarev's rise to "People's Governor", Gubarev was a visible member of the Russian National Unity party, a Russian based neo-Nazi movement which supports a policy of expelling ethnic minorities from Russia and the fostering of ethnic Russian "compatriots" living outside of Russian borders. A quick read up on Russian National Unity:


In early March 2014, following Yanukovych's departure, Gubarev lead a group of separatists to the Donetsk Regional State Administration building, where the group lay siege to the building and ultimately took it over. There, the separatists declared Gubarev the "People's Governor". Gubarev was briefly detained by Ukrainian authorities who temporarily retook the building (before it fell back into the hands of armed separatists), but was subsequently exchanged for captured Ukrainian military officers and currently remains one of the top officials in the pro-Russian insurgency movement in Ukraine's east.

An interesting read on the Gubarev dilemma:


So let's see:

Fascist neo-Nazi? Check.
Unelected "leader"? Check.
Seized power by use of force? Check.

It looks like the pro-Russians' guy here is everything they accuse the Ukrainian government of being. So if they claim that they are fighting a "neo-Nazi junta" from Kiev and yet they are the ones being led in part by an actual neo-Nazi who actually did seize power illegitimately by force, it makes you wonder: Why are they actually fighting?

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Reply There actually *are* real neo-Nazi putschists in charge in Ukraine. (But it's not who you think.) (Original post)
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 OP
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #1
renegade000 Jun 2014 #2
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #7
pampango Jun 2014 #3
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #6
m-lekktor Jun 2014 #4
Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #5

Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Tue Jun 10, 2014, 11:41 AM

1. Bump. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Tue Jun 10, 2014, 11:51 AM

2. gotta love that semi-hidden swastika symbol they have

At first it looks sorta floral, but then when you focus on it... it's pretty blatant isn't it?

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Response to renegade000 (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:59 AM

7. RNU is a very odd branch of neo-Nazism. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Tue Jun 10, 2014, 12:53 PM

3. The far-right is much stronger in Russia than Ukraine in terms of voting percentages and

politicians elected to office.

When you compare old Nazi beliefs such as homophobia, militarism, repression of dissent, expanding national borders to include ethnic Germans in neighboring countries, ultra-nationalism focused on ethnicity and promoting "traditional family values" with a limited role for women, to what Russian policies are like today there is a lot of similarity.

Nice find, Tommy_Carcetti.

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Response to pampango (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:22 PM

6. Thanks. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Tue Jun 10, 2014, 12:59 PM

4. their are far right/fascists assholes on both sides.

and i am sure there are more in Russia because the population is much bigger (duh). this one side claiming the other side are REALLY the nazis and vice versa are both bullshit propaganda. a pox on both your propagandist houses! i trust neither Russia our the EU /US state department .

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Response to m-lekktor (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 10, 2014, 02:57 PM

5. I don't disagree with you.

Without doubt, there are certainly some people amongst the Ukrainian ultranationalist crowd who are indeed avowed, actual neo-Nazis.

And I don't mean to insinuate that the entire pro-Russian separatist movement in Eastern Ukraine is a fascist, neo-Nazi ideology simply based on Gubarev's own affiliation.

However, the point as I see it is that the pro-Russian separatist movement has defined its entire raison d'etre as opposing the Ukrainian government in Kiev because a) they see them as the illegitimate result of a "coup" and b) they see them as fascist neo-Nazis out to slaughter ethnic Russians.

They hammer those points over and over and over and over again. The words "fascists", "neo-Nazis" and "coup" are constantly repeated for ultimate effect. One particular (inactive/former) DUer sympathetic to the pro-Russian cause has an entire Twitter account full of these insinuations.

But clearly these have no problem seizing power by use of brute force. And apparently they don't have an issue with one of their top leaders being an avowed neo-Nazis.

So their stated justifications for fighting ring hollow. And that makes one wonder why is it they are actually fighting?

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