The crying woman on the 911 call for Trayvon Martin.

[vaberella]

I was listening to her again. I listen to her a lot because her call really gets me. A single woman, probably White, alone, no family, barely any friends and dealing with something like this.

I had heard her say this before but it caught my attention this time in regards to the discussion on gun laws; she says, "When someone is screaming help, don't you wish you could so something? I mean, I don't have a gun or anything..."

It was the line she says in bold. To see that the way she sees to protect someone to take out a gun. This is hardly attacking her, but it seems like so many of us don't see the police or anything of that nature really as a protective force. That we need to meet violence with violence. I have to wonder what would have happened if she did have a gun. I actually sometimes wonder about the 13 year old boy with the dog and if this woman had a gun what would have happened if they both showed up at that scene. I get the feeling the 13 year old would be lying on a metal slab along with Trayvon.

And this White woman would be in over hear head as to who to believe --the Black boy (or boys if they were both there) or the neighbor.

But again this goes back to this gun culture and cowboy mentality that we as Americans have. Don't get me wrong. As a Black female from NYC, I love to go shooting regularly. But it would never cross my mind to use a gun on anyone. A sheet of paper, sure thing...a human being - never.

[hlthe2b]

1. I think her feeling stems from the helplessness of immediate response...

No matter how much one might have faith in the police department to deal with these matters (assuming one lives in an area where they truly are effective and professional, unlike Sanford), there will always be a delay. I think she is responding to the urgency and clearly there is nothing one can do to defend someone who is being threatened by a gun-wieldingassailant. Certainly, going out with a gun to confront is, in nearly all cases, a really bad idea. But, I think her frustration and expressed helplessness is a very real emotion. Clearly, as insane as going out to confront would be WITH A GUN, to do so WITHOUT A GUN, would be even more insane. I'm not sure she really wished she had a gun or would have done so, if she had one. Most realize that is crazy, even if you are trained to use one. But her expression of frustration, which likely reflects unwarranted guilt at not being able to do more, is understandable, nonetheless.

[Foolacious]

3. Well stated. n/t

[vaberella]

6. No she calls after the gun shot. The boy is already dead.

She heard the yelling and crying for help but didn't do anything until after the gunshot. I don't even care about that. It's the gun concept as a form of protection that is irritating me.

[lunatica]

10. If she meant it that way she would already have a gun

What's stopping her if she thinks she needs one? Nothing. I think she was expressing a fear based momentary reaction.

I was held up once at gunpoint and my immediate emotional reaction was outraged indignation and for a split second I wished I had a gun to point back at the person. Not to shoot him, mind you. I wished I had a big gun like Dirty Harry because the gun being used was a small one. It was a thought that crossed my mind for one second. I do not have a gun and hopefully I will never feel so threatened that I think I need one. I'm one of those people who is for regulating gun sales and the gun industry.

[hlthe2b]

15. That doesn't negate my point at all...

She was feeling (granted unwarranted) guilt with respect to her inability to do anything and thus felt the necessity to "blame a lack of gun"...

Look, I'm no gun fan, but there is considerable truth to the adage "don't take a knife to a gun fight."

[magical thyme]

2. the police can't get there in time

It's all very well and good to say that we should rely on the police for personal defense. But the fact is that unless you are very lucky, the odds are they can't get there in time to save you.

The boy with the dog would have stood little to no chance, especially if he was black because Zimmerman would have certainly shot him too (assuming it was a hate crime, which I do).

If the woman had been armed, having somebody pointing a gun at the two of them, she would not have definitely been killed too. That can be just what it takes to throw the aggressor off balance and stop him in his tracks.

Not too long ago, somebody on a neighboring street held a burglar at gunpoint until the police arrived. Given a burglar climbing through a window into your rural home, that seems like a better solution than running for your life in the dark, with your barking dogs probably accidentally giving their locations away and getting shot, so the burglar can take what he wants, maybe shoot you anyway, and leave long before the police arrive.

[vaberella]

9. I agree with your thoughts on the 13 year old boy...who is Black.

He has a video on-line I believe. As for the woman. My thought is if Zimmerman is saying they did this or another and she had a gun....who would she protect. The two boys who might be criminals for all she knows or Zimmerman who claims to be neighborhood watch.

But I agree with you overall. I just don't think she would have been sure who the aggressors are in that situation.

[magical thyme]

22. I think most nonviolent type people would be reluctant to shoot either one

When I imagine myself in any sort of situation, my thought is to keep a safe enough distance that they can't grab for my gun and hold it ready to shoot while calling for help.

That may mean not having a gun trained on an individual but between 2, and ready to aim and shoot. Only if you see one is holding a gun do you aim at that one and shout DROP IT OR I'LL SHOOT.

Otherwise, shout "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT" and everybody is likely to turn to see where/who it came from. In that moment, you've broken the concentration of the aggressor.

You don't *have* to figure out who is the aggressor, who is calling for help. You just need to freeze the action in place, persuade *both* of them to LIE FACE DOWN ARMS STRETCHED OVER YOUR HEADS NOW!!! and DO NOT MOVE OR I WILL SHOOT. And then keep them in that position, unable to reach for any weapons, until the police arrive.

(the reason I go around imagining myself in such a situation is I'm a single woman living alone in a rural area where it could take the police quite a few minutes to arrive. and in the past on various occasions I have been followed by someone in a van, office-stalked, and harassed by a registered sex offender and his gang. plus last year a neighbor held a would-be burglar who entered through a window at gunpoint until the police arrived. plus we had a pair of thieves move into the shack up the road. so getting a gun with training and possibly even license to carry concealed is *very* high on my priority list these days.)

[Arkansas Granny]

4. I'm going to assume that she saw the police as some sort of protective source since she

was on the phone with 911. I'm also going to assume that if she felt strongly enough that she needed a gun for self-protection, she would probably have one. I'm assuming this as a single woman, White, living alone.

[vaberella]

5. No that's not what I mean.

I'm speaking about her entering a situation like that...hearing someone calling for her help. Her first thought was to maybe if she had a gun. Why would one enter that situation, even if you had a gun --as though the gun is a coat of armor.

[EFerrari]

8. It's "fight or flight" thinking, and I've had the exact same reaction

when there was an intruder a few inches away from me and my son in the next room.

Later, when you calm down, you realize that a gun would have made everything more dangerous not less dangerous.

[lunatica]

11. Pretty much the same thing I said in post #10

Another gun in these situations just raises the chances of death being the outcome.

[vaberella]

17. But your situation and her situation are entirely different.

She wasn't being harmed directly. As a matter of fact she stayed in her house, as she should have. She's speaking about the if she had a gun when the boy was screaming for help. There is a sense of invincibility with the gun. Because her having the gun might have helped the situation...adding that to her entering the fray with the gun. Who would she be pointing it against? Trayvon or Zimmerman and if the other 13 year old Black boy entered the situation with his dog. Who would be the enemy?

I'm not looking at her in a life or death situation where her person or those close to her are hurt. I'm speaking about this situation. I remember in the Arizona shooting of Gabrielle Giffords...a man had a gun on and he said that if he wasn't careful he would have shot someone who was saving the day because he was the one he saw with the gun not realizing that the gun man was down. I believe he said he thanked God he hesitated and has yet to really touch the gun since. His response in the situation could have made it worse because he thought his gun would help save the day. Instead the gun could have or would have caused far more problems if he used it.

[EFerrari]

19. Imo, it doesn't matter what the situation is but what your brain tells you it is

because that's what determines your response. In that moment of panic where you're deciding whether to go to the danger or away from it, your thinking isn't nuanced -- which is why it's so important to get training.

And, you don't have to be harmed directly to be traumatized by violence. Watching will do it for you, too.

[Arkansas Granny]

14. We don't know that her first thought was if she had a gun. She mentioned that

while she was on the phone with 911. I think it was a statement made in a stressful situation, not her first reaction. People who think that guns can solve problems, usually own one.

FWIW, I have no problem with responsible gun ownership. Unfortunately, there many who own guns who are not responsible.

[vaberella]

18. Valid point. The gun thing entering our minds during a stressful situation is a problem I think.

Because more often than not it causes more bad than good.

[EFerrari]

20. I think you're right.

Instead of reflexively wishing for a weapon, people need to train themselves to automatically assess the real situation because that will help them respond effectively where weapons usually just add one more random dangerous element.

[magical thyme]

23. I would possibly enter a situation like that

for the same reason that I ran into the road in front of an oncoming car. I didn't think my speed or agility was a coat of armor, and I accomplished my goal without getting hit or causing worse injury to anybody. I simply could not leave the escaped toddler to run out in front of an oncoming car. I could see her mother's panic and hear her mother's silent scream in my own heart and head.

It's the same choice that some people (not me because I am deathly afraid of getting burned) will make on the fly, to run into a burning building to save a screaming kid.

Entering that situation doesn't mean that you will run in and start shooting. If you can run in and shout loudly enough, you can freeze the situation in place and prevent injury. You don't need to know who the aggressor is. Just scare *everybody* into dropping, keeping hands over head, and obeying your orders.

(I realize as a horse trainer, I sometimes see things a little differently than others. It's not that I go around routinely shouting at my horses, lol. It's just a skill that you develop to make yourself bigger and louder than anything a panicked horse is freaking out over, to keep them from making a bad situation into a disaster. It can happen with flighty youngsters in a heartbeat. My gut tells me if I can go from quiet and laid-back to bringing a half-wild, panic-stricken thousand pound horse to a dead halt by shouting, I can do the same in other emergencies. And I am not special. If I can do that, so can others.)

[slackmaster]

7. The police certainly are NOT a protective force. They are a reactive force.

[lunatica]

12. Excellent point

But their mere existence is a form of protection, just not in an immediate way or situations like this one.

[alphafemale]

16. I taught my kids to NOT trust cops.

They aren't there to protect YOU. They are there to impose the status quo.

I stepped in between a cop and a friend once. Cop had his hand ON the gun.

I stopped trusting cops when they started roiding up and dressing like commandos.

[slampoet]

24. I am over 40 and the police have NEVER helped when i have called them, in 7 different states

and about 16 different cities.


BTW - Before you say i don't know how to talk to cops, I am the son of a cop and white.

[Life Long Dem]

13. She just feels bad

And is thinking of what she could have done, if anything, even with a gun.

[HockeyMom]

21. There was another woman who called 911

They have played that tape, and interviewed her. She saw the struggle and ran into her house to call, but she could only hear what was happening while on the phone. You can hear the screaming, Helps, and then the shot fired.

This woman had a child and her roommate brought the kid to another part of the house while she was on the phone with 911. A TV station did an interview with her, on camera. She too was a white woman about in her 30s.