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Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
Thu May 22, 2014, 09:54 AM May 2014

This, my friends, is an *actual* coup.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27517591

Thailand coup d'etat as military seizes power

Thailand's military has announced it is taking control of the government and has suspended the constitution.

****

On Tuesday the army imposed martial law. Talks were then held between the main political factions, but the army announced the coup on Thursday.

Political party leaders, including opposition leader Suthep Thaugsuban, were taken away from the talks venue after troops sealed off the area.

Troops have reportedly fired into the air to disperse groups of rival supporters.

The broadcast media have been told to suspend all normal programming.

____________________________________________________________________________________

No vague non sequiturs of cookies or phone calls. No President taking three days to pack up his valuable oil painting collection and then flying away in his own fleet of helicopters. No votes by the legislative body to remove the abdicating president. No immediate scheduling of new elections to replace said abdicating president.

Nope, just a real, live, actual coup d'état. Army comes in, forcibly removes the people in power against their will, suspends the constitution and declares themselves in charge.

Words matter.
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This, my friends, is an *actual* coup. (Original Post) Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 OP
Yep, that's precisely what birthers have been calling for over the past 6 years. MohRokTah May 2014 #1
Nice post, Hitler. msanthrope May 2014 #2
Well, I actually was called a neo-Nazi here recently. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #3
I got called a cryptofascistauthoritariancorporatist something or other..... msanthrope May 2014 #4
No 'authoritarian swooner, mindless cheerleader' or '1984' cliches? Lucky you! freshwest May 2014 #6
We need to get some Orwell smilies. Crypto? I have no idea....it's not like I expect them to use msanthrope May 2014 #45
Say that real fast, 5 times!! Harry Monroe May 2014 #13
oh no I've watched too many horror movies to know that that's a bad idea. nt msanthrope May 2014 #33
If you do, Sean Hannity suddenly appears (nt) Jeff In Milwaukee May 2014 #38
It's the hair and the mustache! whistler162 May 2014 #46
They should make a documentary... Blanks May 2014 #5
Wow. That's just like Ukraine... SidDithers May 2014 #7
Tommy, the BBC report seems to describe a world wide trend: freshwest May 2014 #8
We aren't there, yet. Demeter May 2014 #9
In worldwide politics, every situation is unique and plays out in a unique fashion. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #10
Yup. I also like to think of national identity politics as familial... Chan790 May 2014 #23
I think we look for a universal cause to advance a more humane solution. Idealism is not for empty freshwest May 2014 #27
It's superficially similar to Iran as well. CJCRANE May 2014 #26
Thanks for your insight to both countries. freshwest May 2014 #28
The Thaksins are crooks. They have used their positions to make themselves fabulously wealthy. They OregonBlue May 2014 #34
wow Anyone care about Thailand, where this is happening?? oldandhappy May 2014 #11
Why would we not care about Thailand? Too far away, too small, too brown or just not the USA? pampango May 2014 #15
65 million Thai do, not to mention billions of dollars invested, they care also. Fred Sanders May 2014 #19
Yes, heard this on BBC the other night. JNelson6563 May 2014 #12
Thailand has never had a president. It has a king. Glorfindel May 2014 #14
if words matter, i'd call this a "military coup" to distinguish it from other forms of coups. unblock May 2014 #16
Very true. There are military coups and there are non-military coups. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #31
Is regime change also a coup? ozone_man May 2014 #40
All coups are regime changes. But not all regime changes are coups. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #42
An attempted coup or regime change then. ozone_man May 2014 #47
Syria and Iraq are different from one another. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #50
See how words acquire different meanings here. I assumed this was a John Roberts thread (nt) Nye Bevan May 2014 #17
No RW thugs incinerating police forces with petrol bombs.....I see the differences and similarities, Fred Sanders May 2014 #18
I thought you said you put me on ignore. Oh well, guess not. While I have you.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #20
This time, honest, you are on ignore. Honest. Fred Sanders May 2014 #30
And yet, still no answer. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #32
LOL freshwest May 2014 #43
like what those american spring people were going to do barbtries May 2014 #21
my wifes Mom and her family lives there 8 track mind May 2014 #22
Oh wow. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #29
That's pretty awful to have to live like that. I hope she gets here safely. n/t freshwest May 2014 #44
just heard from her 8 track mind May 2014 #48
Thanks for the update and I still hope she finds a way out, or things get better. Best wishes to her freshwest May 2014 #49
Blessings to all of you. riqster May 2014 #51
"a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government." 1000words May 2014 #24
And it can be military or not, bloody or bloodless but it's still a coup. Cleita May 2014 #36
Typically, even "bloodless" coups involve at least the threat of violence by its perpetrators. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #39
Or in the case of Al Gore, not being able to be sworn in as the elected Cleita May 2014 #41
According to the guardian arikara May 2014 #25
Most of those have been bloodless and pretty non-violent. Thais have very strong opinions and no one OregonBlue May 2014 #37
That's a military coup. Saw many of them when I lived in South America Cleita May 2014 #35
Thai coups are nothing like South American coups. They are generally pretty non-violent and OregonBlue May 2014 #52
I hope so, but my expectations for non-violent ones goes Cleita May 2014 #53
They've had many coups. Mostly by the military and most of them have been pretty OregonBlue May 2014 #54
or is it a putsch? Enrique May 2014 #55
Perhaps that as well. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #56
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
1. Yep, that's precisely what birthers have been calling for over the past 6 years.
Thu May 22, 2014, 09:58 AM
May 2014

And they don't realize what it is they are demanding because NOTHING can be worse than the military taking control of a government.

This country does not understand what a coup it.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
4. I got called a cryptofascistauthoritariancorporatist something or other.....
Thu May 22, 2014, 10:22 AM
May 2014

Frankly, it was easier when we all just got called "Stasi!"

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
6. No 'authoritarian swooner, mindless cheerleader' or '1984' cliches? Lucky you!
Thu May 22, 2014, 11:26 AM
May 2014

The eternal posting of the Authoritarians book links, (as if most of us have not read and digested it years ago) to describe DUers who just don't agree with the cult mindset to be a bit much, too. Because only the Pauls are for 'freedom.' Humm, do I need a or icon here?

EDIT: About the crypto thing, are they saying you're dead? Or just mysterious? Or only half something or the other? And don't most of those terms indicate you are being paid by the government to uh, oppress freedom loving spirits here?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
45. We need to get some Orwell smilies. Crypto? I have no idea....it's not like I expect them to use
Thu May 22, 2014, 04:53 PM
May 2014

the language properly.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
5. They should make a documentary...
Thu May 22, 2014, 10:57 AM
May 2014

So that the American spring brigade can see how it's done. Use it as a training video.



It makes me wonder if the American spring's overwhelming success over the weekend had anything to do with the equally overwhelming success of the tea party candidates on Tuesday.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
8. Tommy, the BBC report seems to describe a world wide trend:
Thu May 22, 2014, 11:37 AM
May 2014
Mr Thaksin and Ms Yingluck have strong support in rural areas and among poorer voters.

Correspondents say they are hated by an urban and middle-class elite who accuse them of corruption.


It would that the wealthier groups are refusing to work with the less wealthy folk.

Is that similar to Ukraine or other European countries?

I wonder how this fracture compares with what is going on in the USA.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
10. In worldwide politics, every situation is unique and plays out in a unique fashion.
Thu May 22, 2014, 11:41 AM
May 2014

It's tempting to draw analogies and comparisons with one place to another, but in the end there always will be factors that make one country's particular situation distinctly its own.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
23. Yup. I also like to think of national identity politics as familial...
Thu May 22, 2014, 01:36 PM
May 2014

as Lev Tolstoy told us: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." Anna Karinina, Leo Tolstoy, first sentence.

Trying to fit a one size fits all frame on civil unrest is impossible.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
27. I think we look for a universal cause to advance a more humane solution. Idealism is not for empty
Thu May 22, 2014, 02:12 PM
May 2014

bellies or those who have accumulated great weatlh. It all gets down to the money. And the complexity of the Ukrainian situation is why I believe we are correct in not pitching a fit over it. The people of Ukraine will decide what they want, the only thing is they all want different things. I keep trying to find a cause, like the boundaries drawn up after the world wars. But that region has been warring for centuries before that, and those people know their own history far more than we in America can comprehend. This is where ideology fails to analyze correctly, trying to fit it all into one box or the other. Thanks for the comment, it just sends me back to square one, and feels remarkably like what we are dealing with on a community level. People make political alliances all the time that effect lives, and the goal is not the political game, it is the lives of people. So things can change very quickly.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
26. It's superficially similar to Iran as well.
Thu May 22, 2014, 01:57 PM
May 2014

I spoke to some Iranian students that told me Ahmedinajad was voted into power by rural religious voters, but despised by urban, educated voters. (Luckily, he's no longer in office).

However, I also have a relative in Thailand who told me that the ruling party in government in Thailand is unbelievably corrupt, almost beyond what you can imagine.

OregonBlue

(7,754 posts)
34. The Thaksins are crooks. They have used their positions to make themselves fabulously wealthy. They
Thu May 22, 2014, 03:03 PM
May 2014

bought their way into power. Actually, when it comes to it, the Red Shirts (Thaksin supporters), while they are the rural poor, are more the equivalent of the Tea Party than anything else.

The Yellow shirts (royalist and urban and middle class) have run the country for years and have not paid attention to the working and rural poor. They are however better educated and politically more liberal as a rule.

All in all, there is no real comparison to the U.S.

They are both right and they are both wrong. No one is willing to compromise. Stalemate.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
15. Why would we not care about Thailand? Too far away, too small, too brown or just not the USA?
Thu May 22, 2014, 12:22 PM
May 2014

I was in Thailand once a long time ago. There are a lot of really nice people there. I care about them.

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
12. Yes, heard this on BBC the other night.
Thu May 22, 2014, 12:06 PM
May 2014

Around midnite, on my way to work. It seems to have just happened and they were imposing curfews and such. Madness.

Julie

Glorfindel

(9,726 posts)
14. Thailand has never had a president. It has a king.
Thu May 22, 2014, 12:11 PM
May 2014

It's a trifle different, but the difference is important. The government has been overthrown, but the chief of state remains.

You're right: Words matter.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
31. Very true. There are military coups and there are non-military coups.
Thu May 22, 2014, 02:32 PM
May 2014

And then there are things that some people label as "coups" which are not actually coups at all.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
40. Is regime change also a coup?
Thu May 22, 2014, 03:26 PM
May 2014

For example, what the U.S. is doing in Syria now. It seems there are many variations on what may be considered coups. Here is a list of regime changes and coups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions


Covert United States foreign regime
change actions
1949 Syrian coup d'état
1953 Iranian coup d'état
1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
1959 Tibetan uprising
1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion
1963 South Vietnamese coup
1964 Brazilian coup d'état
1973 Chilean coup d'état
1976 Argentine coup d'état
1979–89 Afghanistan, Operation Cyclone
1980 Turkish coup d'état
1981–87 Nicaragua, Contras
2011–present Syrian uprising


The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change&quot without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Regime change has been attempted through direct involvement of U.S. operatives, the funding and training of insurgency groups within these countries, anti-regime propaganda campaigns, coups d'état, and other activities usually conducted as operations by the CIA. The United States has also accomplished regime change by direct military action, such as following the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and the U.S.-led military invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Some argue that non-transparent United States government agencies working in secret sometimes mislead or do not fully implement the decisions of elected civilian leaders and that this has been an important component of many such operations,[1] see plausible deniability. Some contend that the U.S. has supported more coups against democracies that it perceived as communist, becoming communist, or pro-communist.[1]

The U.S. has also covertly supported opposition groups in various countries without necessarily attempting to overthrow the government. For example, the CIA funded anti-communist political parties in countries such as Italy and Chile; it also armed Kurdish rebels fighting the Ba'athist government of Iraq in the Second Kurdish-Iraqi War prior to the Algiers Agreement.

...

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
42. All coups are regime changes. But not all regime changes are coups.
Thu May 22, 2014, 03:33 PM
May 2014

Classic affirming the consequent.

Of course, with Syria, it's neither a regime change nor a coup, since Assad remains in power.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
47. An attempted coup or regime change then.
Thu May 22, 2014, 09:22 PM
May 2014

I think the Thailand case is best termed a military junta or military coup. They seem to have long history of that, perfecting it perhaps. At least it is not a violent one (at the moment). By comparison, some of our regime changes, e.g. Iraq war, or Syria (attempted) are quite violent. And have they achieved anything positive? I'm only seeing great loss of life at our hands, and Obama's now.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
50. Syria and Iraq are different from one another.
Fri May 23, 2014, 09:39 AM
May 2014

Syria began as peaceful protests around the same time as the protests against Mubarak in Egypt. Of course, where Mubarak folded relatively quickly, Assad fought back brutally, and the situation quickly deteriorated into out and out civil war. Our involvement there--and it's still rather limited--really didn't come until allegations of Assad's brutality against the rebellion came about.

Iraq, on the other hand, was all us. It's possible that if we had just waited a few years, Saddam would have gone the way of Mubarak or Gadhafi. Instead, we wasted billions of our own money on it, plus thousands of lives of our military and of Iraqis.

Iraq was our natural born child, so to speak. Syria is at best our foster child.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
18. No RW thugs incinerating police forces with petrol bombs.....I see the differences and similarities,
Thu May 22, 2014, 12:40 PM
May 2014

some see only what they want to see.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
20. I thought you said you put me on ignore. Oh well, guess not. While I have you....
Thu May 22, 2014, 12:42 PM
May 2014

....how did the "coup" in Ukraine happen?

8 track mind

(1,638 posts)
22. my wifes Mom and her family lives there
Thu May 22, 2014, 01:36 PM
May 2014

Way north of Bangkok. Things are getting way more serious than whats being reported. All facebook posts from them and phone calls have suddenly stopped. According to them, the chap who is running the military is a power hungry asshole and he's been wanting this for sometime. He's very hardline, and has the potential to be a dictator. My wife's Mom has dual citizenship so she may be planning as escape as we speak. We have planned ahead for this, essentially telling her to not tell anyone, just board a plane, and call us when she lands in the states.

I'm afraid this is not going to end nicely. I hope i'm wrong....

8 track mind

(1,638 posts)
48. just heard from her
Thu May 22, 2014, 11:31 PM
May 2014

She is still there. The military is in her small town of Udon Thani just to enforce a curfew. She's ok for now and telling us not to worry.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
36. And it can be military or not, bloody or bloodless but it's still a coup.
Thu May 22, 2014, 03:10 PM
May 2014

Hitler seized power in a bloodless way in 1933. The blood came circa 1938. Never forget that.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
39. Typically, even "bloodless" coups involve at least the threat of violence by its perpetrators.
Thu May 22, 2014, 03:22 PM
May 2014

And the former holders of power being forced out because of those threats.

OregonBlue

(7,754 posts)
37. Most of those have been bloodless and pretty non-violent. Thais have very strong opinions and no one
Thu May 22, 2014, 03:16 PM
May 2014

is willing to compromise. Already there have been over 30 people killed and over 800 wounded in this latest series of demonstrations. Let's hope that the military restores order, sends the protestors home and then the various political parties (there are lots of them in Thailand) come together and work out a compromise.

After the violent and bloody coups in the 1970's the military has been reluctant to use deadly force against Thai citizens. I actually think many police and military personnel would refuse to shoot their own citizens. For all their problems, they are actually not a violent people.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
35. That's a military coup. Saw many of them when I lived in South America
Thu May 22, 2014, 03:09 PM
May 2014

back in the forties and fifties. We had a non-military coup here in the USA when George Bush seized power back in 2000 with the backing of the Supreme Court. Neither the military coups of SA or our bloodless one had good results.

This coup will not yield the results the Thai people want either.

OregonBlue

(7,754 posts)
52. Thai coups are nothing like South American coups. They are generally pretty non-violent and
Fri May 23, 2014, 01:55 PM
May 2014

don't last long. Let's hope this one is the same.

OregonBlue

(7,754 posts)
54. They've had many coups. Mostly by the military and most of them have been pretty
Fri May 23, 2014, 06:45 PM
May 2014

non-violent. There was some nasty stuff that went on during the 70's but that hasn't happened since, even though there have been other coups. Let's all pray for Thailand. Such a lovely country.

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