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Effort to repeal "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida dies in state's Senate (Original Post) Jemon May 2014 OP
Shot down by the stand your ground advocates NV Whino May 2014 #1
until a congressperson has a brush with someone 'standing their ground' it wont change leftyohiolib May 2014 #2
No big shock Blue_Tires May 2014 #3
SYG in Florida favors the shooter regardless of race hack89 May 2014 #4
We've already been over those cherry-picked stats Blue_Tires May 2014 #5
The OP is about Florida hack89 May 2014 #6
All right...Let's back up a bit... Blue_Tires May 2014 #7
So when you look at the link I provided hack89 May 2014 #8

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
3. No big shock
Tue May 6, 2014, 12:54 PM
May 2014

Southern states would never voluntarily repeal any "Open season on black folk" -laws...It's one of the only things they have left from the old days...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
4. SYG in Florida favors the shooter regardless of race
Tue May 6, 2014, 12:59 PM
May 2014

it is not an "Open season on black folk" law - like the rest of the country, interracial gun violence is not the norm. Whites usually shoot whites, and blacks usually shoot blacks. The stats on SYG cases in FL bear this out.

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
5. We've already been over those cherry-picked stats
Tue May 6, 2014, 01:07 PM
May 2014

Like I said the last time: Get the statistics for all southern states for a longer period of time and see if there isn't some racial trend...

When the Commonwealth of Virginia allows me walk after pre-emptively shooting any white citizens I deem "suspicious or dangerous", then you may have a point...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
6. The OP is about Florida
Tue May 6, 2014, 01:13 PM
May 2014

show me, using the stats provided, that SYG is open season on blacks in Florida. You can move the goal posts once we are finished with Florida.

Are you arguing that Florida is not the worse case when it comes to SYG - that it might actually be racially balanced?

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
7. All right...Let's back up a bit...
Tue May 6, 2014, 02:27 PM
May 2014

And let me reset things a little since you of all people brought out the "moving the goalposts" line: There has only ever been ONE goalpost at the end of the day -- I want to be able to go about my daily business without people thinking I'm a criminal to be questioned, detained and/or shot, and I want Black Americans to get equal treatment in all phases of the legal system (If for a split-second you try to argue that narrow sample survey means everything is A-OK , then you're just insulting everyone's intelligence)...

I personally give less than a shit about goddamned Florida and her specific laws, since I do not live there and will not ever live there...I am however interested in the wider trend of black lives having less "value" than their ethnic counterparts as far as the criminal justice system (and other facets of society) are concerned...I do not hold Florida solely responsible for this, nor the southern states, nor even the NRA (although they HAVE contributed to the problem from time to time) since we both know Trayvon's death and Zimmerman's in-your-face acquittal could have taken place in any state...This issue has been an undercurrent of American history even before this land became "America"...There was a time when I truly believed society was at least slowly but steadily becoming more enlightened, and call me overly cynical or whatever, but there has been a severe regression on racial issue the past several years, and in my observation it is continuing to trend downward...So it is important for me to note all the major societal touchstones as I see them...

I know it's not literally 'open season', but by now you know how reactionary I get over the letters 'SYG', along with how much resentment for the legal system I'll carry around for the rest of my life...It's clear we'll never really see eye-to-eye on this issue -- You see it as necessary and legitimate way for people to defend themselves with lethal force in the face of grave danger; while I see it as an easily exploitable carte blanche for more nefarious purposes (premeditated murder, rage shooters, panic shooters, etc.)...Of course the truth of the matter is we're both right since there is a lot of leeway in how that law is applied; and we'll continue to see more of your situational examples, my situational examples, and everything in between and it will be up to the police, courts and juries to ultimately determine what's what (good luck with them ever getting it right)...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
8. So when you look at the link I provided
Tue May 6, 2014, 02:35 PM
May 2014

you will see that there is no racial disparity when it comes to administering justice in Florida SYG cases. That should give you some reassurance.

More to the point, you know as well as I do that the danger to black men is not white men. Interracial violent crime is not the norm in America. So painting SYG as racially motivated is not only wrong, it deflects attention from the real problem. A couple of high profile SYG shootings should not distract from the day to day violence that black men are subjected to. Shootings that more often than not are done with illegal guns and have nothing to do with SYG.

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