General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat "there is evidence" means to a lawyer
The word "evidence" as used by lawyers doesn't always mean what people interpret to be "proof".
"There is evidence" that Christie knew. We know that Bridget Kelly was with Christie and texting about it that day.
That fact constitutes "evidence". It is a thing which, if proven, renders a conclusion more likely. "Evidence" may render something even a teeny bit more likely, than in its absence.
For example, let's say a bank was robbed of $100 bills and you were arrested. At the time you were arrested, you had a $100 bill in your pocket.
Now, you could have a $100 bill in your pocket for a lot of reasons. But the fact that you had a $100 is "evidence" that you robbed the bank. It is by no means proof that you did.
So, whatever was meant by that line, the construction "there is evidence" doesn't necessarily mean that Wildstein is in possession or knows the location of anything in particular, and could just as easily be a careful wording that he might - and would talk about it if granted immunity. Because if he had anything in his possession, it would have to be turned over in response to a subpoena anyway.
Absent some idea of whether this is documentary evidence or merely circumstantial evidence, it's hard to say whether the letter means that Wildstein has a smoking gun.
elleng
(131,102 posts)People need to understand this.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)... but we won't hear about it until he receives immunity.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)Good job on the explanation. I agree with your warnings and cautions. I also want DUers to remember that we have only seen part of the story.
Evidence is only helpful if it tends to prove the assertion in question and such evidence is not tainted. It is impossible to evaluate the evidence that we have seen to date. Here Wildstein's attorney has been in control of all of the evidence or facts that we have seen. The e-mail about Traffic problems for Fort Lee is from a heavily redacted e-mail produced by Wildstein. A fact finder can not rely on this evidence by itself and needs to see all of the e-mails in this chain and the rest of the correspondence. Wildstein has been releasing information with the goal of getting immunity and not necessarily exposing the truth in this case. As such, this evidence needs to carefully considered.
I am convinced that Christie knew of the lane closure but this opinion is based on my understanding of Christie being a micro manager and his history. My opinion would not be admissible and is subject to change based on the real evidence. I am waiting for the real evidence to come out which unfortunately may not happen for a long time. I fear that we will not see the real facts here
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That can be pretty ephemeral.
Not even "evidence Christie had knowledge"
But "evidence tying Christie to having knowledge"
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)(Will anyone get that joke?)
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)He completely contradicted his previous ever-changing lies by claiming that the letter confirmed what he said.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024423267
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That's like Palin saying the Troopergate report exonerated her.
It didn't. But saying that some damning evidence proves your point, is a set piece of posturing argument.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Stock response
That's like Palin saying the Troopergate report exonerated her. "
...Christie's situation involves a series of on-record denials that contradict his current statement.
The problem for him is that he's still lying. Whether or not the evidence Wildstein has is circumstantial, Christie dug himself deeper into the hole.
Another thing, Wildstein was in the thick of it, and it's not inconceivable that he has the evidence to back up his claim.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Far from it.
The rest of the letter, apart from that shiny dangly carefully-worded tidbit, is quite interesting considering what is the purpose of the letter. This is the lawyer saying "pay me or I make things worse for you all".
onehandle
(51,122 posts)No chance he will even run for President now.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)In fact, the usage in the context of the purpose of the letter somewhat implies that he IS referring to what is already public. The letter is characterizing the situation as we know it, not being a proffer.
Which makes it a very clever letter.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It ensured that letter got a LOT of attention, than it would without it.
He is basically saying there is a conflict of interest among those who are refusing to write him a check.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)Isikoff is doing a good job of discussing what might be this evidence
Lawyers van play games and Isikoff is explaining some of these games