MSNBC just aired a more complete video of the mother who was pulled over in New Mexico

[politicaljunkie41910]

where the mother and son got into a tussle with the police before the mother put the kids in the car and drove off. I saw this video for the first time last night also on MSNBC, on Politics Nation, and after seeing the version today, I feel deceived by incomplete information. The tape today shows a policeman talking to the woman from the passenger side window explaining to her why she was being pulled over. It doesn't show everything, and doesn't say how long the complete tape is, but it certainly differs from what I saw last night.

The tape later shows the woman out of her vehicle and appearing to be acting erratic, before the son got out of the car. With all the issues we have with race relations in this country, I'm disappointed that Politics Nation chose to air an incomplete account of the story, and I say this as as a black woman who has been pulled over myself a time or two, and felt that the officer was not as respectful of me as I was of him (or her).

Rev Sharpton has been trying to rebuild and mainstream his image. I don't think the selective airing of this video served him well IMO.

[Orrex]

1. k & r

[bravenak]

2. I've been seeing the whole video for days.

They always edit the videos on teevee. That's why George Zimmerman was suing nbc. I don't think Al Sharpton does the technical work in setting up the clips.
More of the story came out along with the longer video that day on msnbc.

[uponit7771]

3. What does "race" have to do with this!? So that means shoot at a car speeding away full of kids?!

[no1uno]

5. That's what I was wondering reading the previous comments!!

What about the children?

[politicaljunkie41910]

7. My point was that video shows a longer version in which the cop who originally pulled her

over is speaking to her in a more rational manner from the passenger side of the vehicle long before all havoc seemed to have broken out. The version I saw last evening painted a much different picture. I'm not saying that the police actions were appropriate, just that, there's obviously more to the story, than the audience was led to believe.

[DURHAM D]

8. Bottom line is the unconstitutional use of deadly force.

Perhaps you should google The Last Word segment from last night to better understand the issue.

Video edits and race is not relevant.

[malaise]

33. +1,000 n/t

[uponit7771]

29. that's not the point here.. the point is shooting at something when the cop wasn't in danger

... and putting others lives in danger

[politicaljunkie41910]

37. The mother was the one who appears to have put her family in jeopardy initially.

Up until she pulled off when the policeman went back to write her a ticket, the stop appeared to be routine, although she was arguing with the cop even then. However, when he stepped away from the car, she pulls off (the first time). What is he supposed to think when she does that? She makes herself seem suspicious. After that he gives chase and orders her to pull over. She then refuses to get out of the car and the situation just escalates from there. For someone who was taking her children on an 'educational trip', she's certainly has a lot to learn about leading by example.

This doesn't excuse the shooting at the car, but IMHO the mother did more to endanger her children's welfare than, by fleeing the scene twice, and by driving recklessly while trying to evade the police. Way to go, Mom.

[uponit7771]

38. The shooting at the car is when things get out of hand and the cop diverges from what he supposed to

... do, he can't control her but he can control himself

[joeybee12]

4. Well, the woman clearly, even in the short video and explanation, was a jerk...HOWEVER...

DON'T SHOOT AT A CAR FULL OF KIDS!!!

[KansDem]

6. Also, don't smash the glass with a nightstick...

...if there are kids on the other side.

Don't know what the cop was thinking his next move would be...

[joeybee12]

10. Yeah, there is no excuse for what that cop did...

None, not with all those kids present...

[Kahuna]

9. There was no cause to shoot at the vehicle and such actions are against

generally police policy.

[Gormy Cuss]

11. Oh! So it's Sharpton's fault.

I missed that.

[tiredtoo]

12. Did not see the edited version

only saw the version where cop was at passenger door questioning occupants and so on. Up to point of shots being fired at car. Of interest to me was the location. New Mexico, same place that troopers did extensive cavity search on detainee just a while back. Do these unrelated stories tell us something about the training given to New Mexico police?
Like i said elsewhere, if traveling through New Mexico maintain relaxed buttocks.

[Mr Dixon]

13. SMH

All I know is whether I like it or not when it comes to the police my job is to leave the situation alive. The woman acted reckless and endangered her kids. The Media loves to present half-ass stories for ratings. SMH

[Kahuna]

14. So the cop bashing the window with kids in the car, didn't endanger the kids more???

[Mr Dixon]

16. The point is

Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2013, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

If she works with the Cops right or wrong the situation doesn’t escalate to window bashing and shots fired……..IMO.

[brush]

20. My point is . . .

there never should have been any window bashing or shots fired.

COPS ARE NOT TRAINED TO DO THAT!

They are trained to deescalated situations, not the opposite as those cops did.

I mean after all, how far is that slow ass minivan with a full luggage rack on top going to get?

That's what their radios are for — to radio ahead, maybe where cooler-headed officers would head off the car.

As I said before, there certainly should not have been any windows bashed or shots fired. Those cops lost control and over-reacted horribly.

[Mr Dixon]

23. IMO

I don’t dispute your logic in a perfect world you maybe be right, however having experienced cops over reacting on many occasions many times without the benefit of a dash-cam I would always use caution when dealing with the police. Your reaction is an example of the situation after the fact, after the shooting and window bashing, my countermeasure is to remain calm, hands on 11 and 2, don’t reach until told to do so, don’t speak until asked a question, seem pretty harsh like a 3rd world country doesn’t? Well that is how I have deal with the cops, guilty until proven innocent. I have had to live this way for 42 years, it is not cool but it is necessary, in these United States.

[uponit7771]

30. Cops worlds seem to be less and less perfect even when they're NOT in danger

[brush]

31. You're right about that — cops in America v African Americans

Caution is always advised. The woman used poor judgment. Still. the cops compounded her poor judgment with poor judgment of their own and over-reacted to a woman driver with a car full of kids.

They were never in any danger — no need for the violence.

[kcr]

28. And your point is ridiculous

Her actions shouldn't have led to what the cops did. The cops were wrong. Their actions weren't justified. It's not "You'd better behave or the cops will shoot at your family" That is not and should never be the point.

[Mr Dixon]

48. Really? SMH

I’m glad and mildly envious of your assumption that the police are always respectful to every person they encounter. I’m not co-signing the police action neither do I co-sign the mother’s action, but there are a select few of us that understand the proper rules of engaging the police, which I already explained in a prior post. Not going to go back and forth with you over something so obvious.

[Incitatus]

15. So do you now think the actions of the police were justified?

Was it okay for them to smash the window on the kids' side of the vehicle and fire at the vehicle full of kids because of the mother's actions?

[brush]

17. The woman should not have pulled off . . .

still there is NO EXCUSE for the total out of control over-reaction by the cops — violently beating out the side window with the night stick, and then the shooting at the car moments later. Those younger kids have to be absolutely traumatized and even more afraid of white cops. And the son who tried to help his mother is now charge with aggravated assault.

C'mon. What were those supposedly trained officers thinking. Their judgment was appalling. Come to think of it, no better than the mother's who decided to drive off.

And speaking of driving off, how the hell did the cops think she was going far in a slow minivan with a full luggage carrier on top. No way was that car faster than a radio transmission ahead to stop the van, or faster than their police cruisers for that matter.

My thought on the matter is that it looks like those particular cops put their training aside and lost it when an African American had the temerity to disobey them.

They responded with highly unporportional violence as they couldn't allow that, even though she clearly wasn't getting away in that slow car that stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb.

The one smart thing the woman did was to drive to highly visible and populated with witnesses location before stopping, otherwise who know what we might be reading about?

[Orrex]

19. "the son who tried to help his mother is now charge with aggravated assault."

You mean the son who exited the vehicle and then assaulted the cop after his mother had fled the scene? What charges do you think he should face instead for assaulting the cop?

The one smart thing the woman did was to drive to highly visible and populated with witnesses location before stopping, otherwise who know what we might be reading about?

It is foolish to speculate on what "might have been." The situation didn't escalate until the driver chose to flee the scene of the traffic stop.

[brush]

22. The son did what most sons would do . . .

in a situation like that. You may call it assaulting a cop if you want but he was clearly afraid for his mother and was trying to help her.

Would you sit there yourself and let your mother go unaided in a situation like that? I doubt it.

The woman used bad judgment but the cops judgment and over-reaction was no better.

They lost their heads and escalated the situation instead of deescalating it, which is what they're trained to do.

No police force on earth is trained to bash out a car's window with kids six inches away, and then to fire at the car. There's no excuse for that kind of horrendous judgment from an officer entrusted in protecting public safety.

[Orrex]

25. You are speculating

No police force on earth is trained to bash out a car's window with kids six inches away, and then to fire at the car.

You are conflating the actions of two different cops and, once again, absolutely no one here has defended the cop who opened fire.

There's no excuse for that kind of horrendous judgment from an officer entrusted in protecting public safety.

Maybe, maybe not. It's certainly not the yes/no equation that you imagine it to be, and it's especially unfortunate that the driver and her son chose to escalate the situation. A routine traffic stop that could have cost $126 and ended in 20 minutes will now involve years of their lives and probably thousands of dollars in fines.

Part of protecting the public entails arresting a person who flees the scene of a traffic stop, thereby endangering the passengers in the vehicle, other people on the road, and any cops in pursuit.


If it is determined that the cop with the night stick acted inappropriately, then I support any disciplinary action taken against him.

[brush]

34. What yes/no equation I imagine?

Poor judgment by the driver compounded by just as poor judgment by the cops is no yes/no equation. It's fact seen on the video.

One escalation of the situation (the woman driving off) should have been handled by the cops deescalating the situation instead of inflating it.

Window bashing and firing shots at a car full of kids? C'mon.

There's plenty of fault to go around. And that's a yes/yes equation.

[Orrex]

36. Once the driver fled the scene, it was no longer a traffic stop.

Instead, it was about apprehending a suspect, and her choice to flee created all the probable cause that the cops needed. The woman escalated the situation. The first cop responded to her deliberate choice to escalate the situation. He attempted to de-escalate the situation by arresting the driver and the kid who assaulted him.

The driver had already fled the scene twice, so I imagine that courts might reasonably rule that the cop was justified in forcibly gaining access to the vehicle when the driver and the kid who assaulted him refused to exit. Further, the driver had already endangered children, other drivers, and the cop involved in the pursuit.


I have read multiple threads on this topic, and absolutely no one has defended the cop who opened fire.

[lame54]

18. link

[Laura PourMeADrink]

21. link?

[warrprayer]

24. Link n/t

[Go Vols]

26. vid

[Iggo]

27. Does it still show a cop shooting at a car full of kids?

[NCTraveler]

40. Three paragraphs in the op....

and you would never know who shot at who. It was the black lady who was erratic, not the cops with their guns and batons. They did get a nice jab in on Sharpton though.

[Iggo]

43. Yeah, I caught the dog whistle.

[Blue_Tires]

45. Thanks for mentioning it so I don't have to...

[nolabear]

35. This reminds me of the woman who panicked in front of the White House.

I know that woman had some issues that contributed to her panic, but knowing that the driver of the van homeschooled her kids I wonder - and this is speculation - if she was terrified of the police and also panicked when they pulled her over. She had some pot pipes in the car, which might have set off a fear reaction, but being an African American woman who keeps her kids out of school makes me wonder how frightened she might have been.

And the reactions of the police were anything but reassuring. Being treated like she was treated wasn't exactly designed to deescalate any feelings.

[NCTraveler]

39. Al Sharpton has a fully body of work for you to look at.

Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2013, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

He works everyday to make this country a more equitable place. He has no need to "rebuild and mainstream his image", as you say.

[MindPilot]

41. You are allowed to leave a traffic stop if you feel you are in danger.

Don't know if that is true everywhere, but if she's smart that will be her story.

"I did not feel safe at the location of the stop so I told the officer who was standing at my right window that I was going to drive to a more populated location."

[Orrex]

42. Even then, I think you need to wait for the cop's permission

I've never heard of that "drive to a safe place" rule, but I don't dispute that it might exist. Do you have a link?

[MindPilot]

44. May only be California.

And it is kind of "squishy" not firmly spelled out in the vehicle code, but has been a de facto policy ever since a CHP officer murdered a young woman after pulling her over.

From local TV news:

California Highway Patrol Officer Brian Pennings said the law regarding traffic stops hasn't changed, but officers are aware there may be concerns about safety.

"The vehicle code requires you to stop and the officer's not going to stop you in an unsafe location," Pennings said.

He said drivers should communicate that by turning on "hazard lights or make hand signals to the officer, 'I'm going to stop over here.'"


http://www.10news.com/news/impact-of-knott-case-still-felt-by-chp

And here is the case that led to that policy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Peyer

[Judi Lynn]

46. Why would you attempt to hijack the discussion of a hideous act

by some cops to a personal attack on Rev. Al?

Take that crap to a right-wing site to get the kind of support you seek.

Cops have been ruder to you? Really? What does that have to do with the shooting?

[Logical]

47. You apparently missed the whole point......

A cop unloading his gun at a car full of innocent people, for no reason Do you understand that is the problem??? Wow.

[DefenseLawyer]

49. The solution to most situations faced by a police officer isn't to start shooting.

Sadly, the use of deadly force is becoming far to commonplace and acceptable by police officers.