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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 09:49 AM Oct 2013

Alec Baldwin: Americans have been lied to

Obviously, we’ve been here before. The United States has been here before. The friction between democracy (or democracy as we like to think of it) and capitalism has often created agonising tensions and dramatic upheavals for America. Those spasms left us at least as demoralised as many Americans feel in the wake of the Edward Snowden-NSA revelations. The reality that the government is spying on Americans on a wholesale level, seemingly indiscriminately, doesn’t really come as a surprise to many, given the assumed imperatives of the post- 9/11 security state. People seem more stricken by the fact that Barack Obama, who once vowed to close Guantanamo, has adopted CIA-NSA policies regarding domestic spying, as well as by government attempts to silence, even hunt down, the press.

Americans, in terms of their enthusiasm for defending their beloved democratic principles in the face of an ever more muscular assault on those principles by the state in the name of national security, are exhausted. If you are a “boomer”, like me, and have lived through the past five decades with any degree of political efficacy, you can draw a line from JFK’s assassination to the subsequent escalation of the Vietnam war, on to 1968 with the murders of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy, the Chicago Democratic Convention and Nixon’s resurrection; from there, to Kent State, the Pentagon Papers, Nixon’s re-election, Watergate, Nixon’s resignation, Ford’s pardon, Carter’s one term and out, the curious Iran hostage situation, Reagan (who brings back a degree of the charm and affability that died in Dallas), Iran Contra, Oliver North, Bush the First (as in first CIA director to become president), Iraq the First, Clinton kills welfare, Gingrich shuts down the Congress, Clinton’s impeachment, the 2000 election, Bush v Gore, Bush the Second, 9/11, Iraq the Second, “Mission Accomplished”, the Swift Boaters, Afghanistan, Gitmo, Assange, Manning, Snowden.

I have left out a good deal. There is, of course, a lot that’s positive running through the American narrative during this time, but I think more bad than good. You look at all of this laid end to end and you’d think the US might have had a nervous breakdown. I believe it actually did.

Americans are pretty basic. Generally speaking, they are a “suit up and show up” type of crowd. In spite of images of rampant obesity running throughout the country, gun laws that border on madness and our debt ceiling made of Swiss cheese, more Americans wake up every day to participate in an experience defined by work, sacrifice and moderate self-denial. They are workaholics who exercise, eat fairly well, drink in moderation and refrain from drugs and extramarital affairs while, perhaps, fantasising about either or both. They are devoted to family, friends, churches and social organisations. They are generous with their money as well as time. When disaster strikes, America is a good place to be.

But one thing that Americans fail at, miserably, is taking their government to task when that government has lied to them, defrauded them, covered up its crimes and otherwise blocked them from knowing essential truths. In political terms, Americans have a strong devotion to afflicting the afflicted and comforting the comfortable. They have a hard time contemplating any meaningful overhaul of the rules of their political system, preferring to say “Please, sir, may I have another” in the face of abuses of power. Americans, despite all of their claims to an “exceptionalism” among the nations of the world, have been lied to for so long about so many relevant topics, they have lost sight of what the truth is.

more

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/americans-have-been-lied

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Alec Baldwin: Americans have been lied to (Original Post) n2doc Oct 2013 OP
yup gopiscrap Oct 2013 #1
Good essay. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #2
The main thing they think we can't handle is that the Cold War is over and Capitalism is obsolete. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #7
+1 n/t LittleGirl Oct 2013 #9
Covering up is so people can pretend it doesn't exist. Ace Acme Oct 2013 #15
hmm hmm nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #16
Yes, they make the point Ace Acme Oct 2013 #30
Nope, not the point I made nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #32
History has an arc, and the arc of the last 40 years, as Mr. Baldwin points out Ace Acme Oct 2013 #35
Normal politics is not where it is nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #36
Normal politics is not where it is, I agree Ace Acme Oct 2013 #39
As I said, DU is not the place to have these discussions any more nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #40
I completely agree Awknid Oct 2013 #34
Yes, protecting the people is just the convenient cover story... polichick Oct 2013 #17
Alec Baldwin’s new talk show on MSNBC, Up Late with Alec Baldwin B Calm Oct 2013 #3
Derp BootinUp Oct 2013 #4
Why did I say Derp? BootinUp Oct 2013 #42
Uh oh Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #5
An Excellent assessment of life as I have experienced it. zeemike Oct 2013 #6
He named events that contributed to the formation of my political self. Dollface Oct 2013 #11
K&R. JDPriestly Oct 2013 #8
I find it interesting that Alec is sane and liberal, while his brothers joeybee12 Oct 2013 #10
All three of them Spirochete Oct 2013 #18
At least 2 of them are...Stephen and another one joeybee12 Oct 2013 #19
I didn't know that Spirochete Oct 2013 #20
There was something recently about the other brother... joeybee12 Oct 2013 #25
I enjoy his MSNBC show. It is so low key even Tweety seemed mellow. Dollface Oct 2013 #12
Under the buss with you Mr. Balwin nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #13
Excellent piece - especially poignant for fellow boomers... polichick Oct 2013 #14
Alec goes back to the future, channels Abbie Hoffman. Zorra Oct 2013 #21
Great minds and all that nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #22
lol! And I almost posted the great minds thing in response to your post, Zorra Oct 2013 #24
LMAO nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #26
more astute than i expected from him jon10 Oct 2013 #23
The article isn't about economic policies. nt CJCRANE Oct 2013 #31
*everything* is about economic policies jon10 Oct 2013 #38
what's in YOUR wallet, Alec? jon10 Oct 2013 #27
The one sentence that mentions consumerism CJCRANE Oct 2013 #29
that's a mighty fine technicality jon10 Oct 2013 #37
On the other hand, he helped introduce a new Ben & Jerry's ice cream flavor! nt Buns_of_Fire Oct 2013 #33
rec Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #28
WOW! Excellent, excellent piece. woo me with science Oct 2013 #41
I kept thinking, 'yeah, yeah' as I read this. I like his thinking; I agree with everything. pacalo Nov 2013 #43
Not bad. bemildred Nov 2013 #44

LuvNewcastle

(16,834 posts)
2. Good essay.
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 10:06 AM
Oct 2013

I disagree with one point, though. The government doesn't hide their actions and deceive us so much because there's information we can't handle. They do it because they're covering up all the illegal and immoral shit they do. They aren't protecting us; that's a misconception that a lot of people have and it's bullshit.

 

Ace Acme

(1,464 posts)
15. Covering up is so people can pretend it doesn't exist.
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 12:49 PM
Oct 2013

And that's the great weakness of the essay IMHO. For rhetorical efectiveness and political correctness he declines to place the blame squarely where it lies: with the American people, who in a democracy are charged with the responsibility to right the wrongs and punish the crimes of their leaders--and who have shirked their responsibility these many decades.

People aren't stupid. They just pretend they are.

 

Ace Acme

(1,464 posts)
30. Yes, they make the point
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:08 PM
Oct 2013

When the feds organized a nationally coordinated and brutal assault on the Occupists that effectively broke the movement, the people should have stood with them in every city in the land. The people didn't do that. They allowed Occupy to be crushed. They deferred to their own cynicism, cowardice, and greed.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
32. Nope, not the point I made
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:11 PM
Oct 2013

But that is ok.

History has a definite arc. And especially in nations that believe themselves exceptional and outside history.

 

Ace Acme

(1,464 posts)
35. History has an arc, and the arc of the last 40 years, as Mr. Baldwin points out
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:36 PM
Oct 2013

... has been an increased tolerance for neofascism, increased selfishness, a decline in civic engagement, increased despair and apathy. The pendulum will surely swing back some day, the question is when. We could of course have elected a People's Congress this year, in 2014, but I don't see any sign that's happening.

Maybe by 2016 people will be awake enough and engaged enough and disgusted enough that we will have real alternatives, but it's not going to happen until we face the reality of where we're at today without succumbing to the cynicism that the PtB seem determined to script for us.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
36. Normal politics is not where it is
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:37 PM
Oct 2013

It never has, it never will.

And I will say no more in heavy detail on this site on this. Suffice it to say, next time the streets call, I will be there, as I have in the past.

 

Ace Acme

(1,464 posts)
39. Normal politics is not where it is, I agree
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 05:41 PM
Oct 2013

And I was saying so when I pointed out that we're not going to elect a People's Congress this year.

But it's not sufficient to describe the situation. We also need to understand why normal politics is not where it's at, what might we do to change that, what are the prospects for succeeding at changing it, and what are the relative attractions of the alternatives.

I see the productive pursuits as mass direct action (when it actually attracts a crowd); educational efforts; subverting the prevailing iconography through satire, clever graphics and puppets/costumes; and sometimes runs for office.

Running for office can attract media attention, provides a nexus for educational and organizing efforts, and it gives one a license to post roadside signs during the election period that otherwise would not be tolerated.

It is important, when the streets call, to question whether you are engaging in organizing and promoting your ideas, or merely indulging in self-expression and adventurism.



 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
40. As I said, DU is not the place to have these discussions any more
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 05:44 PM
Oct 2013

It really is not.

But politics of the possible is where it is. That is not conventional.

And as to the streets calling. I am one of the idiots who help to document these things. When things get ugly it gets dangerous.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
17. Yes, protecting the people is just the convenient cover story...
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 12:59 PM
Oct 2013

Fortunately, more and more people know what's going on.

BootinUp

(47,084 posts)
42. Why did I say Derp?
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 10:53 PM
Oct 2013

Because he comes out as a CT'er with a closed mind. I am still interested in his point of view. Why? Because I am not close minded.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
6. An Excellent assessment of life as I have experienced it.
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 12:37 PM
Oct 2013

The change has been so slow moving we don't even realize just how much the average person lost...coming from a time before Reagan where one worker working 40 hours a week could support a family to now where it takes two and then some just to keep the bank from taking your home.
And yes it has been one lie after the other and we are expected to believe it.

But I would expect you will be jumped on and this declared a conspiracy theory and alerted on and the usual suspects will show up with ROFL guy...cause things like this must not be spoken of because as we all should know, the Emperor has a fine set of closes.

Dollface

(1,590 posts)
12. I enjoy his MSNBC show. It is so low key even Tweety seemed mellow.
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 12:46 PM
Oct 2013

Not to mention I could listen to his voice (Alec's not Tweety's) for hours.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
14. Excellent piece - especially poignant for fellow boomers...
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 12:49 PM
Oct 2013

"The efforts of Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden carry with them the possible risk of real harm to US forces and agents. But I believe that without a random appearance by the truth now and then, from whatever source, we learn nothing. We are thus doomed to remain on a course bound for not only threats to our own security from within, but a spiritual death as well. As long as we choose to remain in the dark we risk a further erosion of our true nature."

btw his new show is surprisingly good.

k&r

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
21. Alec goes back to the future, channels Abbie Hoffman.
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 01:26 PM
Oct 2013


"Sacred cows make the best burgers"


"In the nineteen-sixties, apartheid was driven out of America. Legal segregation — Jim Crow — ended. We didn't end racism, but we ended legal segregation. We ended the idea that you can send a million soldiers ten thousand miles away to fight in a war that people do not support. We ended the idea that women are second-class citizens. Now, it doesn't matter who sits in the Oval Office. But the big battles that were won in that period of civil war and strife you cannot reverse. We were young, we were reckless, arrogant, silly, headstrong ... and we were right! I regret nothing!"

"A modern revolutionary group heads for the television station, not the factory. It concentrates its energy on infiltrating and changing the image system."

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists."


"The duty of a revolutionary is to make love, and that means staying alive, and free."

(^^Abbie Hoffman Quotes^^)

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
24. lol! And I almost posted the great minds thing in response to your post,
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 01:39 PM
Oct 2013

when I saw it, right after I posted mine.

 

jon10

(46 posts)
23. more astute than i expected from him
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 01:38 PM
Oct 2013

a prety decent review of the last 50 years

kinda scary

but the excerpts posted leave out all the specifics of the economic policies

 

jon10

(46 posts)
38. *everything* is about economic policies
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:59 PM
Oct 2013

there is no power, without money

power is to get money, and money is to get power

 

jon10

(46 posts)
27. what's in YOUR wallet, Alec?
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 01:48 PM
Oct 2013

migh have more credibility in his remarks about consumerism, if he didnt do commercials for credit cards

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
29. The one sentence that mentions consumerism
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:07 PM
Oct 2013

says that America shouldn't be defined *only* by consumerism.

He is not explicitly against capitalism or consumerism.

 

jon10

(46 posts)
37. that's a mighty fine technicality
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:53 PM
Oct 2013

and speaking a fine technicalities, i didnt say that lacking credibility means that what he said is wrong - one implies the other, but does not prove it

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