General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo decison? Bullshit. What Kerry and Obama did today was make the case
for military action against Syria. Any spin to the contrary is laughable.
Obama and Kerry Press Case for U.S. Action in Syria
The Obama administration on Friday forcefully presented a case for a strike on Syria, as President Obama said he was considering a limited attack and Secretary of State John Kerry declared there was clear and compelling evidence that the government of President Bashar al-Assad had used poison gas against its citizens.
<snip>
The president said he was continuing to consult with Congress and allies in other countries, but said that any attack would not involve American troops on the ground in Syria.
Were not considering any open-ended commitment. Were not considering any boots on the ground approach, Mr. Obama told reporters before meeting with Baltic leaders in the White House. He said he had not made any decisions about what actions the United States would take in Syria.
Mr. Kerry said the administration had high confidence in the intelligence, much of which was being released to the public as he spoke. But he vowed that the government had carefully reviewed the evidence to avoid the kind of intelligence failures that preceded the Iraq war.
<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/31/world/middleeast/john-kerry-syria.html?_r=0
President Obama said Friday that the U.S. has determined with high confidence the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its own people, as the White House released a four-page report summarizing their case against the Bashar Assad regime.
"This kind of attack is a challenge to the world," Obama said. "We cannot accept a world where women and children and innocent civilians are gassed on a terrible scale."
Obama repeated on Friday that he has still not made a final determination on whether the U.S. will carry out a punitive military strike against Syria, but a senior defense official told USA TODAY that military leaders are preparing for an imminent strike.
<snip>
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/08/30/kerry-syria-chemical-weapons-obama/2742369/
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)the military strikes were prepared days ago.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Mr. Hagel might, though...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I want them to be prepared should that be the ultimate decision....don't you?
cali
(114,904 posts)trying to sell an attack to the American people. They've done the former, today they were working on the latter.
this isn't rocket science.
delrem
(9,688 posts)The US launders "morality" behind the notion that it's only one part of a coalition.
On the other hand, Obama, Biden and Kerry are showing brand new neo-con faces and ladling out the kool-aid, and that's more than worrying.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You are right...and rocket science is not your forte.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)I do not want them to be prepared, should that be the ultimate decision. I completely oppose any attack under these circumstances.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)are you serious?
markpkessinger
(8,409 posts). . . I think she was talking about the the sales pitch given by the President and Secretary of State to the American people. You can rest assured that if our civilian leaders are at the point of pitching a particular course of action to the public, a decision has most certainly already been made, and the point of the pitch is to enlist support from the public.
You don't know much about civilian government, do you?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)As I said the military doesn't have to sell it...thats not their job. Their job is to prepare for it...
cali
(114,904 posts)and b) more than you as you can't even parse that, dear.
dogknob
(2,431 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)Trust us....evidence...and what will the world think of us if we don't?
That's fairly clear... the intentions. I believe they know what's going
to happen and need a bit more time to get ready in this hurried
push. imho
edit: I really don't believe we should go to war. I'm more afraid of
responses than the strikes themselves.
such manipulative language
I don't buy it, Mr. President.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)If I'm not mistaken, it's been No Sale for a long time now, on everything Obama.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)when I saw him speak at the Xcel Center in St. Paul, MN the night he clinched the Democratic nomination. I upped my order from him on Election Eve when he won his first election. I even put in a 3rd order for the second election.
But I've wound up being pretty disappointed with the goods I was sold. The features just don't work as advertised.
leftstreet
(36,119 posts)Constitutional scholars and great statesmen indeed
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)duh.
daa
(2,621 posts)markpkessinger
(8,409 posts). . . they do so in order to enlist public support for the course of action they have already decided to undertake. And that applies to any President, of any party, of any country.
FirstLight
(13,368 posts)These words:
"We cannot accept a world where women and children and innocent civilians are ...."
gassed.....How about bombed, droned, collaterally damaged...it's all the same! WTF? The people that will suffer from airstrikes are just as important and those supposedly gassed.
You know, if he keeps this up, he'd better think about giving back that Nobel Peace Prize, because he doesn't deserve it.
cali
(114,904 posts)to the contrary are fantasy.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)The Guardian last year printed interesting research on who's who in the Syrian 'opposition'. Eg. from a long article:
The most senior of the SNC's official spokespeople is the Paris-based Syrian academic Bassma Kodmani.
Here is Bassma Kodmani, seen leaving this year's Bilderberg conference in Chantilly, Virginia. Kodmani is a member of the executive bureau and head of foreign affairs, Syrian National Council. Kodmani is close to the centre of the SNC power structure, and one of the council's most vocal spokespeople. "No dialogue with the ruling regime is possible. We can only discuss how to move on to a different political system," she declared this week. And here she is, quoted by the newswire AFP: "The next step needs to be a resolution under Chapter VII, which allows for the use of all legitimate means, coercive means, embargo on arms, as well as the use of force to oblige the regime to comply."...This year was Kodmani's second Bilderberg. At the 2008 conference, Kodmani was listed as French; by 2012, her Frenchness had fallen away and she was listed simply as "international" her homeland had become the world of international relations.
Back a few years, in 2005, Kodmani was working for the Ford Foundation in Cairo, where she was director of their governance and international co-operation programme. The Ford Foundation is a vast organisation, headquartered in New York, and Kodmani was already fairly senior. But she was about to jump up a league.
Around this time, in February 2005, US-Syrian relations collapsed, and President Bush recalled his ambassador from Damascus. A lot of opposition projects date from this period. "The US money for Syrian opposition figures began flowing under President George W Bush after he effectively froze political ties with Damascus in 2005," says the Washington Post.
In September 2005, Kodmani was made the executive director of the Arab Reform Initiative (ARI) a research programme initiated by the powerful US lobby group, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR is an elite US foreign policy thinktank, and the Arab Reform Initiative is described on its website as a "CFR Project" . More specifically, the ARI was initiated by a group within the CFR called the "US/Middle East Project" a body of senior diplomats, intelligence officers and financiers, the stated aim of which is to undertake regional "policy analysis" in order "to prevent conflict and promote stability". The US/Middle East Project pursues these goals under the guidance of an international board chaired by General (Ret.) Brent Scowcroft...
<snip>
I wonder how divided the Bilderbergers and CFR are on these matters.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)that the WH didn't strike, just as you predicted they would and now you don't have anything new to complain about.
There was a nother thread you were pretty hard on those that predicted there would be no strike....you were pretty adamant that it would happen. I guess you feel a little silly now.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Yes, it will happen. they're telegraphing that clearly.
If it doesn't, I won't feel silly at all but hugely relieved and I'll be happy to commend the President for not launching an attack.
I think it's a huge mistake to do so and the process has been ugly as sin.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)with the hope he will confirm you cynsim sometime in the future?
In the mean time, you don't hold back from manufacturing all the crap in the world about shit that hasn't happened.....got it.
cali
(114,904 posts)on this issue is manufacturing it? The officials from the admin? How about military spokespeople? Are they manufacturing the claim that Obama and Kerry made the case today for military action?
delrem
(9,688 posts)If Obama doesn't follow through, because he's isolate and those who oppose the PNAC plans explain about "reasonable doubt" to enough people who *can understand*, all of us opposing this will be EXTREMELY happy, and Obama's ass will be saved.
But JC on a crutch, if you don't think Obama isn't telegraphing his intentions, personally and through Biden and Kerry (for two), then there's no help for you at all.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Michele Catalano
cali
(114,904 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Grow up.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I'm flattered.
Although I must say, I find your posts pretty uninteresting....at least from the few I've even bothered to look at.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)The old "you seem to have a lot of interest in my post canard" is pretty weak. But keep fluffing honey!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You'll probably continue to follow my posts with interest in the future.
I'm pretty flattered, but I got better things to worry about than what you think of my posts. You're a very mediocre poster IMO...I don't think I've ever seen a single interesting OP from you.
Cheers!
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Until then....alas you will have to put up with people who do not like or agree with you. Oh and have to reply to mediocre posters who stomp on your robe. Cheers!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I don't care if people agree or disagree with my views.
But what I find really funny are the folks who have almost NOTHING interesting to contribute to this site. EVER.
I don't mind a few posts which are snarky and funny, but when a poster does nothing but follow people around and attack other DUers, all I can do is laugh.
Try posting some interesting OPs and perhaps people can take you more seriously.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)It is an open board and I read and post when I see something interesting. You think I follow you around? Very sad. You think highly of yourself dude. The people I like and respect here take me seriously, the rest well too bad. So now get on with your bad self.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You're following around DUers or commenting on them personally.
The subject of many of your posts is usually other DUers and not specific policies or issues.
As Eleanor Roosevelt once said...small minds discuss people.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)You are fun.....so easy......keep going....
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)...and making an initial reply to them in a thread.
You're the one that has the initial reply to me in this thread and others. Can you ever find an instance where I was the initial replier to you in a thread?
Didn't think so.
That's because your posts are generally uninteresting.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)You are fun!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Easy fun!
JI7
(89,289 posts)on was true. you know they were disappointed when it turned out to be false and that she was a wingnut swift boater.
lamp_shade
(14,853 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)"There is no spying on Americans."
"No decision has been made."
War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
"Humanitarian" air strikes.
jsr
(7,712 posts)BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)I'm willing to believe that.
What they didn't present was a case that our planned intervention would make the horrible situation there better.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Exactly.
spanone
(135,950 posts)David__77
(23,636 posts)I'm deluded because I hope not. But any talk of indecision is designed to defuse political opposition and retain at least some element of initiative.