General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDivisions Widen Among Snowden's Supporters
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324823804579014611497378326.htmlThose disagreements include increasingly public bickering over the makeup of Mr. Snowden's legal defense team, and who has standing to speak for him, among the three camps closest to him: the antisecrecy group WikiLeaks, journalist Glenn Greenwald and his father's legal team.
Mr. Snowden and his father, Lon Snowden, spoke for about two hours via an encrypted Internet chat program, said two lawyers who helped arrange the contact. The elder Mr. Snowden participated in the chat from the Washington, D.C., office of his attorney, Bruce Fein, and was connected to his son with the help of Ben Wizner, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, who is involved in coordinating Mr. Snowden's legal defense in the U.S. What they discussed wasn't disclosed.
snip
More fractious is the relationship among Lon Snowden, WikiLeaks and Mr. Greenwald. Mr. Fein's wife and spokeswoman, Mattie Fein, said Lon Snowden's legal team doesn't trust the intentions of Mr. Greenwald or WikiLeaks and worry they are giving Edward Snowden bad advice.
"The thing we have been most concerned about is that the people who have influence over Ed will try to use him for their own means," Ms. Fein said. "These guys have their own agenda here and we aren't so sure that it has Ed's best interest in mind."
Sid
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)...of outrage over protecting what the government COULD be doing vs the outrage over what the gop IS doing seems disproportional at best.
Most of the non falsifiable claims are coming from Snowglen
"Also, the amount of outrage over protecting what the government COULD be doing vs the outrage over what the gop IS doing seems disproportional at best."
dkf
(37,305 posts)The sad fact is that telling the truth is now a crime against the surveillance state.
You no longer need to be in Russia to be treated egregiously.
I would say Snowden supporters are growing by leaps and bounds, and supporters here are even more confident that we are exactly where we need to be.
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)...gay people...really!?
I'm more sensitive to it these days, Obama helped, ... I don't think I can stand anyone treating the "others" (all inclusive) people like that
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)we drone people. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)as a whole are a terrible country. But you knew that.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Response to SidDithers (Original post)
Post removed
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... about such nonsense, Sid.
I have principles and integrity. I care about a President violating his oath of office, Sid. Sorry you just don't fucking get it, but I'm not surprised in the least.
Sid
99Forever
(14,524 posts)You've got nothing but trollbait and silly, juvenile "smilies."
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"ProSense... Is that you?"
Why exactly are you so focused on me? Now, you're implying that another poster is me?
Creepy.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Cha
(298,077 posts)ProSense.. who are obsessed with you. It must be contagious because they keep popping up out of the snowden fan club.
Sid
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)They oughta get that checked out.
Cha
(298,077 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Maybe we're at middle-school level inching down to grade school?
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)We're called Democrats.
What political party are you a member of?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)in most of the almost sixty years I have been alive.
Response to SidDithers (Reply #12)
Post removed
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Number23
(24,544 posts)mean-spirited or stupid that it's truly the best response.
You're right on the money with that one.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)pnwmom
(109,025 posts)But that's par for the course these days on DU.
The OP is not about whether the NSA is spying on Americans.
It's about Snowden, who didn't just open the debate about US internal surveillance by leaking the power point presentation. He also, with the encouragement of Greenwald and Assange, stole thousands of other documents, including ones about foreign spying, and has shared them with unknown others (and some known, like the Chinese newspaper.) His parents have every right to be concerned about whether Greenwald and Assange are using him to further their own ends.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... I'll post what I want.
Got it?
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... whooptie-fucking-doo.
Am I supposed to be impressed?
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)With yourself?
99Forever
(14,524 posts)The Peewee Herman maneuver.
Isn't that special?
Huh?
FarPoint
(12,486 posts)the story of Humpty Dumpty? ......As it goes....Humpty had a great fall. You may be able to relate through your DU experience.
Warpy
(111,467 posts)This is absolutely not a personal attack. It didn't describe the object's ancestry, anatomy, or proclivities, only his nationality.
There is a difference between a personal attack and a statement of fact.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)As intended.
Damn furiners!!1!
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)There are any number of possible personal attacks besides the few you list.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Indeed, what IS that nutter Assange up to?
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)and the adulation of his worldwide fan base.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Nobody cares about your conversations. Well, nobody in the government LOL---
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... shouldn't be a problem.
Right?
Glad you agree.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I keep hearing that the NSA is spying on EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME.
So there must be some record of such practice, a real person(s) who would take this to court?.
Apologies if I missed that information.
randome
(34,845 posts)Apparently some have already figured that out. And others have too easily opted to 'feel the fear' instead of 'face the reality'.
It's like a drug to some, I think. Rant and rage is an easier escape than trying to cope with complicated realities.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Whisp
(24,096 posts)but you know what, that Obama put some cement shoes on all those people and dissappeared them just like a good Stasi. I bet that's how it works...
<--- unfortunately I need this.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... Verizon cell service. Are you not paying attention? Or is it more like intentional ignorance.
I have Verizon service, I have been spied on, by the NSA, without probable cause.
So much for your phoney authoritarian talking point. Better go get some fresh material from your buddy, Dick Cheney.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I could guess they would be on that side of aisle as well, as you took the bait hook, line and sinker.
I'll be talking to my buddy Dick later this evening and will pass on to him that you are onto us.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)He spoke directly about people such as you:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I said "people such as you."
Can't you read simple English or what?
Who the fuck is "Ann" anyway?
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Owned and operated by Rupert Murdoch, the guy who used his media empire to help lie America into war.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jun/15/rupert-murdoch-tony-blair-iraq-alastair-campbell
Nice.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)on News Corps Board of Directors.
Say, can you guess who was the top recipient of campaign contributions from News Corp employees and PAC in 2012?
Answer: Barack Obama
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I'm surprised John Yoo isn't in there somewhere.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2006/10/hepa-o02.html
The chairman and a half dozen other top officials have resigned or been fired at Hewlett-Packard, the biggest US personal computer and printer manufacturer, amid a scandal over illegal corporate spying that has unfolded over the past month.
The spying campaign, launched by H-P board Chairwoman Patricia Dunn in response to leaks to the press of internal corporate discussions, included surreptitiously obtaining the phone records of H-P board members and employees, surveillance of board members and journalists, and the emailing of spyware to journalists in an effort to learn the identity of their sources within the company.
Private telephone records on hundreds of cell and home telephones were obtained by a method called pretexting, in which investigators made repeated calls to telephone companies, pretending to be the individuals targeted, until they were able to convince a phone company employee to release the information.
Viet Dihn, the author of the USA PATRIOT Act, is representing a former HP director.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/faculty/dinh-viet-d.cfm#
During his time at the Department of Justice, Dinh played a key role in developing legal policy initiatives to combat terrorismnamely, the USA Patriot Act.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-19/news-corp-independent-directors-hire-debevoise-firm-s-white-mukasey.html
Dinh, who runs a small law firm in Washington that specializes in damage control, and venture capital executive Tom Perkins are leading the efforts of independent directors, who hold nine of 16 board seats. Dinh, also a professor at Georgetown University and the chief architect of the USA Patriot Act, represented Perkins, a former Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ) director, during a scandal at that company.
And former Attorney General Michael Mukasey's law firm is advising Dinh in News Corp's phone hacking scandal. (Dinh is on the Board of Directors for News Corp.)
Michael Mukasey, who served as U.S. attorney general under George W. Bush, will join White in representing directors, Suzanne Elio, a spokeswoman for the firm, said today.
Debevoise & Plimpton has been retained to advise Viet Dinh in his supervision of the Management and Standards Committee on behalf of the independent members of the board, Elio said in an e-mail. She declined to comment further.
http://www.newscorp.com/corp_gov/bod.html
Dinh has a close relationship with Rupert Murdoch.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-06/dinh-s-ties-to-murdoch-under-fire-as-point-man-in-hacking-probe.html
News Corp. (NWSA)s independent directors, obligated to assess Rupert Murdoch and other top executives handling of the companys phone-hacking scandal, are relying for guidance on Viet Dinh, a board member with personal ties to the Murdoch family.
Dinh, 43, is point man between the independent board members and a panel that New York-based News Corp. (NWS) created to cooperate with authorities probing phone hacking by the defunct News of the World tabloid and to evaluate company standards.
A Washington attorney and Georgetown University Law Center professor, Dinh has been a friend of Chief Executive Officer Rupert Murdochs oldest son Lachlan since 2003 and is godfather to Lachlans second child. In 1992, a decade before they met, the South China Morning Post, then owned by Murdoch, helped Dinh free his sister from a Hong Kong refugee camp.
Usually its required that an investigation like this is undertaken by a committee of independent directors, said Jay Lorsch, a Harvard Business School professor who has served on the boards of four publicly traded companies. Its very hard to be objective if youre involved in any way -- financially or emotionally -- with the family of the chief executive you are supposed to be supervising.
Murdoch has friends on both sides of the aisle.
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grasswire
(50,130 posts)....for our Internet.
I think the center is beginning to slip.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Snowden News from Hong Kong....
Funny how that works.
boston bean
(36,225 posts)Nothing I presume.
Appears to me there is a division amongst a couple of Snowden supporters. Those couple of supporters being Snowdens father, Greenwald and wikileaks.
Not everyday people who support the leaks... right?
deurbano
(2,896 posts)(from the article, which is two-days old): "Edward Snowden Talks With His Father But Lawyers for Both Sides Disapproved of the Internet Chat." I guess the intent was to make the headline more provocative, not more accurate, since (as you say), the reporter is not talking about "supporters" in the more general sense, but is referencing only the Feins (Snowden's father's advisors) vs. Snowden's advisors. (Really, the Feins are the ones who seem to be trying to create a "division."
leftstreet
(36,119 posts)Is there a test?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)is the companion headline
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
dionysus
(26,467 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)Bueller? Beuller?
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)What the OP fails to grasp is that arguments happen when people think for themselves and don't assert and re-assert the same talking points to each other over and over. Where don't arguments happen? Well, in lockstep supporter land.
BeyondGeography
(39,395 posts)What could possibly go wrong?
Cha
(298,077 posts)"GAS".
gulliver
(13,205 posts)Greenwald is starting to become like Audrey in Snowden's little shop.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I call my composter Audrey by name, - gotta feed Audrey, Audrey hasn't eaten today... etc.
I might change the name to Glenn, but then I will be reminded of him long after I want to be, so I won't be putting in for a name change after all.
deurbano
(2,896 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:34 PM - Edit history (1)
<<It has come to my attention that news organizations seeking information regarding my current situation have, due to the difficulty in contacting me directly, been misled by individuals associated with my father into printing false claims about my situation.
I would like to correct the record: I've been fortunate to have legal advice from an international team of some of the finest lawyers in the world, and to work with journalists whose integrity and courage are beyond question. There is no conflict amongst myself and any of the individuals or organizations with whom I have been involved.
Neither my father, his lawyer Bruce Fein, nor his wife Mattie Fein represent me in any way. None of them have been or are involved in my current situation, and this will not change in the future. I ask journalists to understand that they do not possess any special knowledge regarding my situation or future plans, and not to exploit the tragic vacuum of my father's emotional compromise for the sake of tabloid news.
Thank you.>>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/edward-snowden-media-misled_n_3764560.html
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Who'da thunk.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)is posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023468939
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Number23
(24,544 posts)Which is really quite sad.
Dad doesn't trust GG. Snowden does.
mazzarro
(3,450 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Snowden still has no friends. Every faction is looking to make him their poster boy. Except for his father, I guess. But apparently there was never any love lost there.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
deurbano
(2,896 posts)"Edward Snowden Talks With His Father But Lawyers for Both Sides Disapproved of the Internet Chat"
If you actually read the article, the first headline was a more accurate reflection of the contents. I'm not sure why the title was changed. (Murdoch's WSJ stirring the pot?)
This was the article to which Snowden was responding when he wrote the following (For those interested in these matters, Snowden is distancing himself from Bruce Fein, someone who actually worked on the Ron Paul 2012 campaign):
<<It has come to my attention that news organizations seeking information regarding my current situation have, due to the difficulty in contacting me directly, been misled by individuals associated with my father into printing false claims about my situation.
I would like to correct the record: I've been fortunate to have legal advice from an international team of some of the finest lawyers in the world, and to work with journalists whose integrity and courage are beyond question. There is no conflict amongst myself and any of the individuals or organizations with whom I have been involved.
Neither my father, his lawyer Bruce Fein, nor his wife Mattie Fein represent me in any way. None of them have been or are involved in my current situation, and this will not change in the future. I ask journalists to understand that they do not possess any special knowledge regarding my situation or future plans, and not to exploit the tragic vacuum of my father's emotional compromise for the sake of tabloid news.
Thank you.>>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/edward-snowden-media-misled_n_3764560.html
burnodo
(2,017 posts)Cha
(298,077 posts)Some of us have been saying that for months! Welcome to reality .. Mattie Fein.
Rex
(65,616 posts)And he is right. His son will get used and then thrown away when he no longer has any value to the Russians.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)If you would read instead of going off the deep end, dad and dad's lawyer (Rand Paul's lawyer) are being pushed off because the son and others more recently close to him doesn't trust dad's posse. That's a real issue when you having people represent you. It doesn't sound like dad is really looking out for his son, but more of some kind power play that isn't working in that relationship.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)It's "fundamental".
If you are going to lecture someone on reading, you might want to spell correctly.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)Who could have predicted that?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Not Not Not
But totally