Is it time to just accept that our society has collapsed?

[Atman]

Our major cities are dystopian wastelands. Our government is run by a small handful of the ultra-rich. Our constitution is in shreds. Hey, it was a fun 237 years, but maybe it's time to admit...the party's over.

Of course, I heard on Fox "News" that it is all Obama's fault.

[MADem]

1. Boston is vital and thriving. Last time I checked, it was a "major city."

I think the "party" is just getting started.

[Agschmid]

7. That was the first thought that came to my mined as well.

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. no. bad times for many but cities still function

[brooklynite]

3. So, you'll be leaving then?

Not much point discussing politics if it's all hopeless, is there?

[PowerToThePeople]

4. In Oceana they still tried to get to the truth

The state still functioned, but not democratically. That is where we are. Possibly that is where we have been for a while, but they could not remove the veil from our eyes completely until the full "Security State" was put in place. They are safe enough from any actions we may wish to take.

[aristocles]

5. The party is hardly over

Things have been much much worse many times before. The Constitution holds firm. The American Empire stands strong.

A sign that the party is over will be when immigration stops. That's hardly the case now.

[Johnny Ready]

6. Poverty has caught up with the Republicans

50 years of low wages and rampant corporate greed have left the Republican's facing the very crisis they have originated, poverty and the affect it has on votes. Hard to win an election if you consistently add to the numbers of low income families by paying the lowest wages possible. This is the collapse, they could never admit. Now it has cost them and will continue to do so in the form of elections.

[Bunnahabhain]

13. Need to share the blame

The last 50 years you say? So 1963.

The Congress was (D) from 1963 until 1994. It was regained in 2006 and held again until 2010.

JFK. LBJ. Jimmy Carter one term. Bill Clinton two terms. Obama on his second.

The Senate was (D) 1963 through 1982 then 1988 through 1996 and been under their control since 2006.

My point? There is plenty of blame to go around.

[liberal_at_heart]

15. there is definitely enough blame to go around.

[brush]

19. Ever hear of Reagonomics?

Last edited Thu Aug 1, 2013, 09:00 AM - Edit history (2)

Trickle down, job off-shoring and union busting really are what started the steep decline of the middle and working classes. This all began when Reagan cheered on scabs to break the air traffic controllers union back in the 80s. That's probably the very last industry where you want untrained scabs working. The repugs broke that union and it's been downhill in wages for the entire country ever since.

Thanks you so much, St. Ronnie.

Also under Reagan we became a debtor nation for the first time instead of the creditor nation we had always been.

The repugs only care about debt though when a dem is in the White House. Hell, Cheney is famous — infamous really — for once saying "deficits don't matter." That was doing a repug administration of course.

[Bunnahabhain]

20. No, I've never heard of Reagonimics

Really, do you think I'm that stupid merely because I do not fall for the trope of "50 years" of Republicans? That was totally non-factual and I proved it. There is blame to go around on both sides. Jimmy Carter deregulated the airlines. Bill Clinton signed both NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

As far as debt under Reagan...you do know enough civics to understand only Congress can initiate a spending bill, right? Even if you did not know it before I posted it you do know the US Congress was controlled continuously by Democrats under Reagan, right? Are you smart enough to see what I'm getting at or are you too blinded by ideology?

There is plenty of blame to go around. Sure, (D) might be to the left of (R) but you're really going to have a hard time making the case (D) has not been to the right of center in aggregate voting and legislation proposed in the last 30+ years. If you do not acknowledge (D) shares some blame there is no fixing the problem.

[brush]

21. Come on, of course there is blame to go around

But you asked if i was smart enough to know certain things, you must know yourself then that the preponderance of the blame has to go to repug polices.

There is no doubt of that, and the repeal of Glass-Steagall under Clinton didn't not help, but anyone who is being truthful knows that even that was a repug policy led by Phil Graham and signed by — and I might get flamed for this — a repug-lite acting Bill Clinton.

I myself wish that both Clinton and Obama had modeled their administrations more on FDR's and even LBJ's in their policy directions programs championed.

The Republican Party has made it their business for decades to get rid of New Deal and Great Society programs that have been of tremendous benefit for regular people. But even now, with the recent SCOTUS decision on the voting rights act, they're still up to their dirty tricks. You can't deny that.

[Bunnahabhain]

25. I will not come on...

I know you want white hats and black hats in this but that's just the case if one looks at this objectively. I mean, the Glass-Steagall thing "didn't not help?" It set the stage for the meltdown we just experienced. You are correct Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act was all (R) sponsored but you understand only 51 (D) Congressmen voted against it? 155 (D) voted for it! As 5 (R) voted against it, if all (D) had voted against it, the vote would have been 207 for, 211 against...and it would never have landed on Clinton's desk!

We need to move (D) to the left of center. It clearly is not and has not been for decades.

[PowerToThePeople]

22. Bill Clinton signed both NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall

True. (D) certainly does share the blame. The move to the center after Reagan has been a disaster for the country. We have NO left party in the country any more, only sock puppets for the Bankers and Multinational Corps.

[Bunnahabhain]

26. Exactly what I have pointed out

rather well I thought.

[Agschmid]

8. Crap flamebait...

[Atman]

10. Crap flame catcher.

It was a question. I live between Boston and NYC. I visit both regularly, and I love them both. I wasn't speaking of specific cities, as if Boston falls, so falls Boston Falls (even if there was such a place as Boston Falls). Step outside your tiny mind and try to understand what I'm talking about.

Our government has ceased to function in any meaningful capacity. Major cities are collapsing (no, Boston isn't, and I'm sure we can point to lots of others who are not). Our federal government has turned into just a big spy center. We're parading petty spies to the media even as the government spies on us. You can stand your ground and shoot someone who looks like a bad guy you saw in one of your nightmares. If you work your whole life and pay into a pension or health care, you can be told to fuck off, because some rich people want your money. Seriously? I'm just posting flame bait?

Bite it, then.

[PasadenaTrudy]

9. Downtown Los Angeles

is booming. Hey, they are even getting a Whole Foods in 2015. Gentrification will be complete

[madville]

16. You gotta go negative

You know like LA has 30 billion in unfunded pension liabilities and is going to run out of fresh water one day.

[kestrel91316]

17. We've got plenty of fresh water underneath the San Fernando Valley.

Nice big aquifer but it's got toxic waste in some areas. Nothing we can't filter out and clean up, BTW.

We get huge rainstorms every year and we just need to make sure it goes into the groundwater and not down the LA River to the ocean.

[mick063]

11. In a two class society

It depends on which class you belong to.

It will be a fun ride for many until the guillotines are loaded on the wagons.

[liberal_at_heart]

12. acknowledge, yes. accept, no.

And no it is not just Obama's fault. This collapse has been in the making for decades.

[Atman]

14. +100

Of course I wasn't serious about it being O's fault. But you are 100% correct that the manufactured collapse has been a long time coming.

[LanternWaste]

18. I imagine that not too many youngsters remember when New York declared bankruptcy...

Our major cities are dystopian wastelands."

Hoe many cities exist in the country? From that, precisely how many cities are in fact, dystopian wastelands?

Which then begs the question: What is the precise number/percentage of blighted cities needed to validly describe the culture as "collapsed? On on what objective measure is that number based?



I imagine that not too many youngsters remember when New York declared bankruptcy which gave us plenty of these...

?w=318&h=300

...who were (deservedly) mocked.

[arely staircase]

23. dystopian wasteland?

maybe your loser city. Austin fucking rocks!

[leftstreet]

24. 'Society' collapsed for impoverished people long ago n/t

[KansDem]

27. The only problem is...

...there's no place to go! Every square centimeter on this planet is "owned" by someone or something. We can't start anew; there's no moving on to "a new wilderness." There'll be no "great experiment" again.

So we have to make it work here! Somehow...

[Bonx]

28. For a society that has collapsed

Lunch out today was splendid.

[Atman]

29. I'm not going to delete the thread, but am I going to dis-own it.

It seems to be evoking some interesting responses, and I enjoy reading them. But I admit my OP wasn't clear in its subject. No, of course I don't think our entire country is a dystopian wasteland. Hell, I live in some damned beautiful country, with two of the best cities in America nearby. I probably should have drawn out the thesis more, but screw it. Enjoy responding.

[Johnny Ready]

31. Poverty Has Finally Caught Up to the Republican's

It's an interesting thread because we find ourselves living in a very interesting point in time. Doomsday planners building under ground bunkers, while the SP 500 set another high today. Oddly enough Tim Tebow is maligned for believing in God and as of today marijuana is legal in Illinois. Sp you have to wonder, when will Will Smith show up and defeat the aliens?
It seems poverty has caught up with the republican's. It took 50 years to see the result of low paying jobs and substandard education but now clearly these two factor's have played a part in the growing numbers of democratic voters. Much to the dismay I would imagine of the current republicans who have now lost two elections consecutively. It's just that easy.

[geek tragedy]

30. Real estate prices continue to skyrocket in my dystopian wasteland. And we don't have guns. nt