Paulbot nut Sen Ron (Paul) Wyden comes unhinged - explodes into wild conspiracy theory while giving

[Douglas Carpenter]

speech at the Center for American Progress - a "think tank" just like the Cato Institute is a "think tank" located in the same metropolitan area as the Cato Institute where crank "journalist" Glenn Greenwald has spoken.

Like something straight out of Alex Jones:



With a wild crazy gleam in his eye - this relatively unknown Senator from Oregon or Washington or one of those relatively unknown states starts incoherently rambling about how "we will regret it" if something isn't done to restrain "the surveillance state" - an institution clearly existing only in his fanciful imagination.

Just listen to the words of this crank:

To make matters worse... Now with Paulbot Dem Congressman John (Rand Paul) Conyers joining forces with the full fledged Republican Paulbots - we seem to have a Paulbot majority in the Democratic Caucus of the U.S. House of Representatives --- no wonder the nuts on DU are all cracking:

FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 412

H R 2397 RECORDED VOTE 24-Jul-2013 6:51 PM
AUTHOR(S): Amash of Michigan Amendment No. 100
QUESTION: On Agreeing to the Amendment

Party Affiliation----Ayes----Noes----NV
Republican-----------94-----134-----6
Democratic----------111------83-----6
Independent
TOTALS-------------205-----217----12 [/blockquote

[cthulu2016]

1. Proud to rec this expose of the enemy within

The belief that these broad NSA progams exist is nutsy cuckoo-land stuff.

Almost as crazy as the idea of reigning in these much needed programs that have saved us from terror... while not existing.

[hlthe2b]

2. Comparing Center for American Progress with Cato or Alex Jones is very offensive...

not to mention the ugly comments about Wyden and Conyers--long a reliable stalwart for Democrats. Whether you agree with them or not on issues related to NSA, this is hyperbolic slandering at its worst.

Ugly, ugly, thread. Honestly, if DU hasn't been infiltrated, I don't know how to explain the absolute reversal in attitudes (and i don't care if there are agreements for different reasons on these issues with distasteful and downright "putrid" elements of the "right&quot

[Douglas Carpenter]

6. you've completely lost me -- now please explain how on earth the Cato Institute is any different at

all from the Center for American Progress and how on earth Ron Wyden and John Conyers are even slightly different from Ron and Ran Paul? I really cannot for the life of me imagine what on earth you are getting at. Sorry, but you have completely and totally lost me.

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. Oh dear. I was afraid the OP wasn't sarcasm. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

50. I still can't tell...

[Aerows]

96. I can't either

the close captioning on that piece is an abomination, by the way.

[hlthe2b]

14. I'm glad I "lost" you because your posts have been so offensive I just don't intend to bother.

I find it incredulous that you proclaim yourself a Liberal??Progessive? Democrat?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

21. I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and I'm pretty sure ....

..... you have fallen in to the sarcasm trap.

[hlthe2b]

27. Perhaps-- and granted I'm in a typical work day hurry, but I don't find this clever...

Just irritating, given I've seen posts here from some DUers that are every bit as extreme (and serious)...

[Bluenorthwest]

31. The OP is the one who falls into the 'poorly crafted attempts at satire' trap

often enough that he might want to try another modality. I thought he was a right winger for some time, and I'm still not sure he's not greasing both sides of his toast.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. you got me... at least someone does

[Douglas Carpenter]

26. I'm simply asking a question - how on earth is the Cato Institute any different even in the slightest

from the Center for American Progress ?- and in what ways are John Conyers and Ron Wyden even vaguely different from their obvious ideological brethren Ron and Rand Paul? It is completely beyond my ability to even imagine how they are even slightly different. Or is it as I cannot help but suspect - you are refusing to answer because you know as well as I do that they are 100% EXACTLY the same??! Just like most of the Democratic Caucus in the House of Representative who are siding with their fellow Paulbot travelers in trying to cripples our nations ability to protect ourselves from the terrorist by crippling our ability to keep a close eye on everyone.

[BlueToTheBone]

45. Well, CATO was founded by Charles Koch in 1974

The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded as the Charles Koch Foundation in 1974 by Murray Rothbard, Ed Crane and Charles Koch,[6] chairman of the board and chief executive officer of the conglomerate Koch Industries.[nb 1] In July 1976, the name was changed to the Cato Institute.[6][7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute

and if this is what you think the Democratic Party is about and there is no difference in an organization formed to counteract this horror named Koch and the horror itself; you need to go away.

[Douglas Carpenter]

49. you know there is always a possibily that someone saying something completey crazy might be trying

to make a point though irony and sarcasm

[BlueToTheBone]

52. Since this is a rather serious discussion board

we offer an array of smilies to indicate your spew of insanity. Without them, we take you at your word.

[emulatorloo]

81. Insinuating that DU'ers are calling Wyden and Conyers "Paulbots" is disgusting.

[Douglas Carpenter]

89. was not insinuating that at all - and I cannot for the life of me imagine why you would think that

I was insinuating that there have been a number of poster who have suggested that those who are highly critical of the Surveillance state are motivated by Paulite/libertarian ideology

[emulatorloo]

95. The insinuation comes across loud and clear, unintended or not. Maybe take bluenorthwest's advice

as satire is not your forte.

I would wager the majority of DU'ers find overlap between Wyden's position and their own. So your post comes off as mean-spirited and pointlessly divisive.

[Douglas Carpenter]

108. I rejoice in the 43 recommendation which does tell me that many people here and probably most do

have critical faculties, an ability to handle complex thoughts and an ability to think abstractly and not miss the fucking obvious.

[emulatorloo]

112. Well bless your little heart.

[Douglas Carpenter]

117. thank you

[99th_Monkey]

102. Your slanderous broad-brush smears of Conyers & Wyden are despicable. ~nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

106. please tell me that you're are being ironic and that you're not missing the point I was making

an you might check to see who has recommended this thread - just in case my attempt at ridiculous irony has been missed

[Jackpine Radical]

65. Pssssssssst…

Read the OP again and magine this little thingie at the end:

[hlthe2b]

85. Read my other posts. Even if meant to be

Satire, it is very unfunny, not at all cleaver, and, sadly echoes recent "serious" posts here lately. The OP poster needs to find another schlick.

[LondonReign2]

3. Wyden: How many boxes in his garage?

[reformist2]

24. +1000. That's what SERIOUS Americans want to know.

[Aerows]

98. Do his neighbors like him?

Does he stop to pet their dog? If not, well, whack-a-doodle-do he must be! (I hope I don't need an /s tag, but just in case ..._)

[ProSense]

4. Senator Wyden

destroys bogus claims about Prism. In fact, made it clear the distinction between the domestic program and PRISM.

Even after those disclosures, there has been an effort by officials to exaggerate the effectiveness of the bulk phone records collection program by conflating it with the collection of Internet communications under section 702 of the FISA statute. This collection, which involves the PRISM computer system, has produced some information of real value. I will note that last summer I was able to get the executive branch to declassify the fact that the FISA Court has ruled on at least one occasion that this collection violated the Fourth Amendment in a way that affected an undisclosed number of Americans. And the Court also said that the government has violated the spirit of the law as well. So, I think section 702 clearly needs stronger protections for the privacy of law-abiding Americans, and I think these protections could be added without losing the value of this collection. But I won’t deny that this value exists. Meanwhile, I have not seen any indication that the bulk phone records program yielded any unique intelligence that was not also available to the government through less intrusive means. When government officials refer to these programs collectively, and say that “these programs” provided unique intelligence without pointing out that one program is doing all the work and the other is basically just along for the ride, in my judgment that is also a misleading statement.

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/wyden-on-nsa-domestic-surveillance

Of course, Snowden's distortions and international adventure served to shift the focus to all sorts of misinformation about PRISM, which focuses on foreign targets.

Senator Slams Domestic Spying: ‘Secret Law Has No Place In America’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023322100

[ananda]

5. So it's sarcasm.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Douglas Carpenter]

7. what do you mean?

[leveymg]

10. Are you talking about the original, now notorious, post that this parodies?

[sabrina 1]

13. I believe the OP is satire. Maybe the OP needs to use the sarcasm tag though, but I am certain

this is a parody on some of what we've been seeing around here lately.

[hlthe2b]

17. I wish that were the case, but from his defensive responses, I'd guess not.

Seems another poster's comment on this subthread may well be closer to the truth.

[snort]

63. If a post as obviously sarcastic as this OP needs

a sarcasm tag, then what is the point in being sarcastic when your readers are too dense to get sarcasm in the first place?

Not attacking you by the way. Don't tell me there's a 'not attacking you' tag, I don't want to know.

[Douglas Carpenter]

66. if somehow through it all I have contributed to exposing just how absurd it is to suggest that those

who are highly critical of the Intelligence Industrial Complex are Paulbots - - If somehow in spite of how much to my shocking surprise some people missed the point and interpreted my message literally - If in spite of that somehow I have weakened the ability of those who attack us who support liberal democratic values as "Paul supports" - I have not lived in vain.

[Jackpine Radical]

67. Poe's Law strikes again.

To wit (via Wiki)-- Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.

[hlthe2b]

15. self-delete

[hlthe2b]

18. If the OP hasn't directly indicated with an emoticon or comment that it is satire... I assume it is

NOT and your original comment should apply. Frankly, I think it is stupid enough, your original comment should still apply, regardless

[leveymg]

8. I have seen proof-positive from some posters that John Conyers is really Ron Paul's sock puppet

And always has been. Absolutely, rock solid sort of proof that it's all a racist Ayn Rand-KGB plot!

[deutsey]

11. It all has to do with sapping our precious bodily fluids

[leveymg]

35. Strategic Air Command: "Peace is our Profession." "Gentlemen, no fighting in the War Room!"

?w=500

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Outstanding. n/t

[UglyGreed]

16. Beware of the PaulBots

They are here, there and everywhere.

[Fumesucker]

19. You're going to lead to the desperately needed upgrading of a lot of snark detectors

[Ichingcarpenter]

20. I got the snark

but I also know superman

[Fumesucker]

22. Not in the Biblical sense I trust

http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. LL's problems are just beginning. lol n\t

[LondonReign2]

23. Kick to expose the traitorous Sen Wyden

[xchrom]

25. !

PAULBOTS ARE EVERYWHERE!11

[Fuddnik]

46. You can hear the cuckoo's chirping!

[PowerToThePeople]

29. I can not UNREC this enough

I hope it gets locked and you get banned.

DU has been infiltrated by right wingers.

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. what do you mean? Are you seriously suggesting that Conyers and Wyden are not Paulbots?

[Bluenorthwest]

33. I am suggesting that Wyden is a better Senator than you are satirist.

You and I had this issue once before Doug. You come off like a right winger. You are snarky to those who try to engage. Those who can not pull satire off well should stick to puns and knock knock jokes.

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. 100% agree

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Your 'satire' is mediocre hack work and you follow it with rudeness and snark

Just so you understand, we don't agree 100%. I think you should find more direct and clear ways of communication and you are persisting in the same old same old. That's not agreement.

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. I 100% agree that we don't 100% agree.

[AtheistCrusader]

53. That settles it. I'm convinced.

I like you.

[Douglas Carpenter]

57. I'm glad somebody does

[Bluenorthwest]

75. Smug and rude and without the courage to actually say what you mean is all it is

when the funny fails and you just keep repeating the same failed gag. Ann Coulter also plays the 'it's satire...not' routine you are borrowing here. Good stuff.

[emulatorloo]

83. well said, thank you.n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

111. your right

[reformist2]

103. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

[Douglas Carpenter]

110. well that's true - but how did you know? Are you with the NSA?

[whttevrr]

39. JURY RESULTS say meh :shrug:

It is not even good sarcasm. It is a disjointed post that shows really no humor or worth. And the responses to those who wish to get clarification are rude and dismissive. The way the OP keeps the gambit going by rudely dismissing genuine questions is offensive.

Someone else should alert and hope for a different jury.




Here is what I got:
JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:42 AM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Post is using satire, not as well as could be hoped, but not intended to be harmful.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's fucking sarcasm. Buy a clue.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: I don't know if the OP is sarcasm or not, and I do hate to hide, but it is disruptive and mean, in my opinion.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Around here, the sarcasm icon is mandatory because many simply will not get it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This is sarcasm.

Thank you.


My only comment is to the asshat that thinks I need a fucking clue: This shit post isn't even slightly funny. I do have a clue. Here it is :: Sarcasm should be either obvious or funny, this crap is neither.

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. Sarcasm? My goodness!!

[whttevrr]

42. Then why did you act like an ass whenever anyone asked if it was sarcasm?

WTF!?

I like sarcasm... it's funny. But when people asked if this was sarcasm you responded as if they were asking a stupid question. It becomes disruptive if you don't let people know you are being sarcastic.

I do it in the real world all the time. But after I say something I laugh, roll my eyes, or in some other way let people know I am just messing with them. Without the visual cues and facial expressions sarcasm in the written form often comes off as douchebaggery.

[Douglas Carpenter]

43. frankly no one has actually asked me if it was sarcasm. They seemed to either assume it was or

assume it wasn't. I assumed and still assume that that 99% assume correctly I cannot imagine sarcasm having a whole lot of affect if someone has to constantly state that they are being sarcastic.

[whttevrr]

51. Except here...

Star Member ######(12,958 posts)
5. So it's sarcasm.

Last edited Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:58 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Thanks for pointing that out.



Response to ######(Reply #5)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 06:45 AM

Star Member Douglas Carpenter (16,079 posts)
7. what do you mean?




But I'm done with this waste of time and space

[Bluenorthwest]

78. And that is where the poster crosses into weeds.

nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. In this place, you need to

Or more than a few take offense.

[Douglas Carpenter]

62. you're probably right.. but I ... well you know -

[Oilwellian]

76. It's very obvious sarcasm, IF...

you've been paying attention. Perhaps you need to take a breather from DU.

[AgingAmerican]

37. This is Alex Jones level nonsense

Fighting stupid with stupid

[LondonReign2]

41. One can never be too diligent in rooting out Alex Jones sympathizers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023320336

[AgingAmerican]

47. There are no Alex Jones sympathizers on DU

There are, however, people who act like him

[PowerToThePeople]

55. That may not be true.

As for where he started (9/11) I would say we still have no idea what really occurred and who was behind it. As a party and a country we have shrugged our shoulders and moved on.

As to any other things he espouses, well they are pretty whacked out.

[Progressive dog]

115. Thanks for the link

I hadn't rec'd it yet.

[meegbear]

44. The OP is like something straight out of Alex Jones ...

[AgingAmerican]

48. It's how they 'support' Obama

apparently. Pitiful, isn't it?

[Coyotl]

54. Alert sent.

[Douglas Carpenter]

56. please reference post # 49

[limpyhobbler]

58. This belongs on literallyunbelievable.org

http://literallyunbelievable.org/



To be fair to those who didn't detect the sarcasm, this thread looks pretty realistic to what passes for real here on a regular basis.

[cascadiance]

59. Perhaps you could tie Obama and the NSA's "side" to Michele Bachmann on spying issues, etc...

... and you wouldn't even need a sarcasm icon in that case.

[RC]

68. +10 Sadly true.

[Oilwellian]

79. LOL

Ouch!

[SoapBox]

60. Widen has gotten nuttier.

He's lost his common sense over the years and now rambles like so many other loons in Congress.

[sabrina 1]

64. Did YOU forget a sarcasm tag also?

[Catherina]

69. Rec'd because I know this is sarcasm but I recommend use of the sarcasm tag

DU is large and not everyone knows each other.

And many people probably miss the lame posts that do this.

Some DUer really do post Alex Jones videos to derail serious threads. See this post as an example

[carolinayellowdog]

70. rec'd for the sharpness of the sarcasm without even looking at the thread

and am gobsmacked that anyone didn't get it from the HEADER FFS and (on edit) distressed that something that I expected to provoke laughter from all the pro-amendment crowd, instead provoked furious anger.

What this dustup reveals is that what passes for discourse at DU has gotten so degraded by pro-NSA character assassins that no one knows what is real anymore.

[limpyhobbler]

86. guessing some do see the sarcasm but are pretending not to, just to act offended

[Douglas Carpenter]

114. I certainly hope so - I really, really do want to believe that liberals on DU are smarter than

conservatives on Free Republic. But some of the responses here have me questioning that assumption - but with more than 45 recommends - I can feel reasonably confident that most are not that dense after all.

[limpyhobbler]

116. Probably I was wrong.

I read everything again and realized everyone was being extremely sincere.

[emulatorloo]

71. Fuck your headline. And once you are done doing that

Find me a post on DU that calls Wyden or Conyers a Paulbot.

[1-Old-Man]

84. +1

[Douglas Carpenter]

94. I was not insinuating that at all. In fact that interpretation never cross my mind until I read your

post. I was insinuating that there have been a number of poster who have suggested that those who are highly critical of the Surveillance state are motivated by Paulite/libertarian ideology

[99th_Monkey]

104. Haven't you heard?

ANY one is a "Paulbot" now, who disagrees even slightly with POTUS
on all things NSA. <-- this is supposed to be the big STFU trump card.

But it's getting to be so transparently absurd, I doubt many rational
people are buying it for a minute.

[arely staircase]

72. Wyden supports keeping the PRISM program

says it is useful to fighting terrorism.

[emulatorloo]

77. His post is all about insinuating that DU'ers have called Conyers and Wyden "Paulbots"

[arely staircase]

80. I know and it is bullshit

fact is my opinion on all of it is precisely the same as Wyden's. I think the phone data collection should stop and that the PRISM system is legit and should be kept - with better oversight. The OP is just flamebait. See the world is more nuanced than the childish OP.

[emulatorloo]

88. Pure mean-spirited and pointless divisiveness.

Wyden makes a damn good case and I would imagine there is a lot of agreement here w what he says.

[arely staircase]

92. too bad this barely made it past a jury

file under: making DU suck

[Douglas Carpenter]

91. was not insinuating that at all -I cannot even imagine where you got the idea I was insinuating that

I was insinuating that there have been a number of poster who have suggested that those who are highly critical of the Surveillance state are motivated by Paulite/libertarian ideology

[emulatorloo]

97. See my reply above.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3346733

[QC]

73. Ron Wyden is nothing more than a Republican posing as a Democrat.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023114963#post122

[bvar22]

109. Wow.

The Beavis & Butthead Chatroom at Aol must have closed early yesterday,
and they wandered in here by mistake.

[railsback]

74. Wyden has been in government since 1981

He's served through the Patriot Act, and ALL the lawsuits filed against it, the 'illegal' spying, data mining, violations of the 4th Amendment…. Now he's acting shocked (like so many here). There's only one word for that:

OPPORTUNIST

Go suck an egg, Ron.

[Bluenorthwest]

82. He's my Senator and this is not a new issue for Wyden, he has been warning us

for years and he is doing the will of the voters of Oregon in pressing the issue. He voted against the Patriot Act extension that Senator Obama gleefully voted Yes on, Yes let's extend W's malicious powers! Trying to paint this as anything but consistent democratic politics is filthy.
This is a Democratic site. I have to assume you'd vote for the Republicans here in Oregon, you hate Wyden so. Is that the case?
Whose your Senator?

[railsback]

90. If he had been on this issue for years, people would have heard him

before he jumped on the bandwagon. Perhaps he was just too busy working to privatize Medicare.

[cascadiance]

113. Perhaps you might have noticed if you'd been paying attention then...

Check out how he made the Communications Decency Act that was a part of the Telecommunication Bill that should have never been signed by Clinton a little less Nazi about how it handled online civil liberties then with the amendment he helped put in to it. Thankfully at least the court threw out that whole Communications Decency Act mess after this bill passed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230_of_the_Communications_Decency_Act

[Hydra]

87. Oh, that's going to leave a mark!

I wouldn't know this is sarcasm if I didn't see the post that inspired this though.

Proof that DU has people who aren't carrying the same flag when I could see the post as being dead serious.

[1-Old-Man]

93. It is a crying shame the UnRecommend feature is gone, because this post is lunacy.

Reading it sounds like a sheep going to the slaughter; baa baa baa, with a smile on their little faces. If you don't give a rat's ass about your Government's illegal activities that tells us one hell of a lot about you, but don't push your nonsense on the rest of us who do care very much when our Constitutional rights are dissolving right before our eyes.

God I wish I could UnRecommend your posting just to warn potential readers that its unadulterated crap, at least to the mind of a proud progressive Democrat. Oh, and the northwestern coastal states are among the best places to live in this country and they tend Democratic, just in case you were unaware of those longstanding facts.

[Douglas Carpenter]

100. I'm getting the impression you missed the point I was getting at

[carolinayellowdog]

101. if "Oregon or Washington or one of those unknown states" didn't clue you in

then check to see this OP recommended by Catherina, Sabrina1, and every other outspoken pro-Wyden DUer

[Douglas Carpenter]

105. thank you

[blackspade]

99. Your right! The progressive wing of the Democratic Party has...

gone so far left that now they are right!
Or maybe it's the teahadists that have gone so far right that now they are left?
I'm so confused.....

Thankfully we still have some sanity in Congress with the likes of Wyden, Warren, Sanders, and Grayson. I just wish my Rep Yarmuth would start pounding away as well. One can hope.

[Douglas Carpenter]

107. thanks for the 40+ recommends.. I rejoice to know some folks have some critical faculties