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Thu Jul 25, 2013, 04:19 PM

"Leaders Of The 9/11 Commission Say NSA Surveillance Has Gone Too Far!" (Tom Kean/Lee Hamilton)

President Barack Obama has rightly called for a national discussion, which his administration and Congress should convene. It is unfortunate that this conversation begins only when an unauthorized leaker divulges secrets he has agreed, under penalty of law, to keep. But the issues are now before the public. It is time to trust the American people’s judgment about where to strike the balance between what is, after all, their security and their freedom


from the wow dept

One of the key talking points from defenders of the NSA surveillance program is that they had to implement it after the 9/11 Commission revealed "holes" in information gathering that resulted in 9/11. This is a misstatement of what that report actually indicated -- in that it showed that more than enough data had actually been collected, it's just that the intelligence community didn't do anything with it. Either way, it seems that the leadership of the 9/11 Commission -- Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, who were the chair and vice chair of the committee respectively -- have now spoken out against the NSA surveillance efforts. And they don't hold back:

The NSA's metadata program was put into place with virtually no public debate, a worrisome precedent made worse by erecting unnecessary barriers to public understanding via denials and misleading statements from senior administration officials.
When the Congress and the courts work in secret; when massive amounts of data are collected from Americans and enterprises; when government's power of intrusion into the lives of ordinary citizens, augmented by the awesome power of advanced technologies, is hugely expanded without public debate or discussion over seven years, then our sense of constitutional process and accountability is deeply offended.

Officials insist that the right balance has been struck between security and privacy. But how would we know, when all the decisions have been made in secret, with almost no oversight?



The article goes on in great detail about the problems and calls for a truly public debate. As they note:

We are stronger as a nation when we understand what the government is doing. This does not mean sharing sensitive intelligence with the public. A public debate poses challenges when it involves classified information that dribbles out, obfuscated by misinformation. But there is certainly far more we can discuss openly.

Indeed.

http://www.techdirt.com/

---------------------

It's time to debate NSA program

Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton Opinion/Politico

The administration says the program is tightly controlled, but unilateral executive branch action and assurances are not sufficient; we need constitutional checks and balances. The extremely low rate of denial of warrant requests and the fact that in the hearings only the government’s side is presented are troubling. The public would benefit from a better, more detailed understanding of the judiciary process.

The Congress, the courts and the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, which the 9/11 Commission recommended, each have critically important roles to play. This board is essential to balancing the impact of the government’s security measures in the aftermath of Sept. 11 with our civil liberties. It has taken a decade to get the board up and running. Now that the Senate has confirmed a chairman, it is time for the board to get to work in a transparent manner on this surveillance program.


We are stronger as a nation when we understand what the government is doing. This does not mean sharing sensitive intelligence with the public. A public debate poses challenges when it involves classified information that dribbles out, obfuscated by misinformation. But there is certainly far more we can discuss openly.

President Barack Obama has rightly called for a national discussion, which his administration and Congress should convene. It is unfortunate that this conversation begins only when an unauthorized leaker divulges secrets he has agreed, under penalty of law, to keep. But the issues are now before the public. It is time to trust the American people’s judgment about where to strike the balance between what is, after all, their security and their freedom.

Thomas Kean, former governor of New Jersey, and Lee Hamilton, a former congressman from Indiana, co-chair the Bipartisan Policy Center’s Homeland Security Project. Kean was chairman and Hamilton was vice chairman of the 9/11 Commission.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/its-time-to-debate-nsa-programs-94634.html#ixzz2ZyShhpOo

24 replies, 2778 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Leaders Of The 9/11 Commission Say NSA Surveillance Has Gone Too Far!" (Tom Kean/Lee Hamilton) (Original post)
KoKo Jul 2013 OP
blm Jul 2013 #1
KoKo Jul 2013 #2
blm Jul 2013 #3
KoKo Jul 2013 #5
blm Jul 2013 #18
Solly Mack Jul 2013 #4
KoKo Jul 2013 #6
Solly Mack Jul 2013 #7
KoKo Jul 2013 #9
Solly Mack Jul 2013 #12
KoKo Jul 2013 #14
Solly Mack Jul 2013 #15
KoKo Jul 2013 #16
Solly Mack Jul 2013 #17
KoKo Jul 2013 #20
GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #8
KoKo Jul 2013 #11
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #10
KoKo Jul 2013 #21
KoKo Jul 2013 #13
avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #19
westerebus Jul 2013 #22
KoKo Jul 2013 #23
westerebus Jul 2013 #24

Response to KoKo (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 04:46 PM

1. Well that makes me even more certain the NSA 'story' is Bush legacy rehab tour, where

the narrative is now Obama is no different than Bush. Except Bush's surveillance was far more widespread and done ILLEGALLY prior to Congress' 2006 bill institutionalizing the program - Bush also allowed illegal wiretapping.

Jeb2016

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Response to blm (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 04:57 PM

2. Sad to hear you say that blm...

truly..

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Response to KoKo (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:11 PM

3. Lee Hamilton has been a go-to guy for Bush coverups since IranContra. That's why he was chosen

as the "Democrat" on the panel. I don't think Snowden KNEW he was being used, but, it's apparent from the beginning that he WAS being used. He didn't reveal anything that many here didn't know was going on by 2002. Every single part of his resume has been as Bush CIA and in firms loyal to Bush. Making Obama 'no different than Bush' does WHAT for the next two elections, KoKo? It is ALWAYS about rewriting history for BushInc and setting up for the next election featuring a Bush.
Jeb2016.

I have a damn great track record when it comes to smelling a BFEE dog and pony show.

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Response to blm (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:21 PM

5. Are you saying that

Snowden was "set up" to do these leaks because the Bush Family is orchestrating this from the sidelines?

If that's true then why did Obama and Michelle meet twice with the Bushies in Africa and what is this coziness with Poppy Bush at the White House with the glowing speech honoring him for his "Thousand Points of Light" Foundation?

We had Poppy bush saying Clinton was like a Son to him an the Clintons have been very cozy with the Bushies.

So...I just don't get where Snowden fits in with this?

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Response to KoKo (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 08:04 PM

18. GOP strategists know whenever they can blur image of THEIR guys and Dems THEY win

What do you think the "Obama is no different than Bush" narrative is doing?

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:18 PM

4. I have no use for Lee Hamilton.

And all they are really saying is let's talk about it (within certain boundaries) and getting this point in -

The Congress, the courts and the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, which the 9/11 Commission recommended, each have critically important roles to play. This board is essential to balancing the impact of the government’s security measures in the aftermath of Sept. 11 with our civil liberties. It has taken a decade to get the board up and running. Now that the Senate has confirmed a chairman, it is time for the board to get to work in a transparent manner on this surveillance program.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:23 PM

6. I've always see Hamilton as a FIXER insider working for both parties.

But, Tom Kean has spoken out about the "9/11 Commission" not being able to do the job they wanted to because they were so restricted. He didn't need to speak out about that and I don't think that this has to do with Obama ...but, that maybe they are getting push back from those worried that the Executive has taken over too much power.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:25 PM

7. Oh, Hamilton is a "fixer" all right.

I think their statement is fairly meaningless.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:50 PM

9. So what do Hamilton and Kean get out of this?

How would they be instrumental in trying to bring down Obama over NSA Spying?

And, what about the Whistle Blowers who have been prosecuted by Obama who were trying to warn us the NSA spying had gone too far? Are they some kind of conspiracists who are working with Snowden to bring down Obama? And, Glenn Greenwald is in on it?

Huh?

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Response to KoKo (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:20 PM

12. I didn't say they were trying to bring down Obama. Never. Not once.

So I can't answer a question to a comment I never made.


And I never suggested , implied, or said anything like:

"And, what about the Whistle Blowers who have been prosecuted by Obama who were trying to warn us the NSA spying had gone too far? Are they some kind of conspiracists who are working with Snowden to bring down Obama? And, Glenn Greenwald is in on it? "


So I can't address that either, since it's not my thinking.

You obviously have me confused with someone else.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:27 PM

14. Sorry...I was expecting a little more about WHY a Fixer would put this

out there.

If I misinterpreted...and asked further of what you though...I apologize.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:41 PM

15. I read what they said and to me all I heard was

a way to make people feel better about it all.


I don't think it a good idea to hold any expectations about what they said....beyond what they actually said.


The Congress, the courts and the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, which the 9/11 Commission recommended, each have critically important roles to play. This board is essential to balancing the impact of the government’s security measures in the aftermath of Sept. 11 with our civil liberties. It has taken a decade to get the board up and running. Now that the Senate has confirmed a chairman, it is time for the board to get to work in a transparent manner on this surveillance program.

We are stronger as a nation when we understand what the government is doing. This does not mean sharing sensitive intelligence with the public. A public debate poses challenges when it involves classified information that dribbles out, obfuscated by misinformation. But there is certainly far more we can discuss openly.

President Barack Obama has rightly called for a national discussion, which his administration and Congress should convene. It is unfortunate that this conversation begins only when an unauthorized leaker divulges secrets he has agreed, under penalty of law, to keep. But the issues are now before the public. It is time to trust the American people’s judgment about where to strike the balance between what is, after all, their security and their freedom.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/its-time-to-debate-nsa-programs-94634.html#ixzz2a6DOEx1r


They're talking about having a public debate about the issues - which in many ways that is what us going on now....and a national discussion - "President Barack Obama has rightly called for a national discussion, which his administration and Congress should convene." So, Congress and the President will discuss it.


They complain about it taking a decade for - " It has taken a decade to get the board up and running. Now that the Senate has confirmed a chairman, it is time for the board to get to work in a transparent manner on this surveillance program." - Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (which the (they) 9/11 Commission recommended) to get a chairman - and how that board can now oversee these issues and to assure the public.












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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 07:02 PM

16. I did like this statement by them...What do you think of it?

Do you feel what long time DU'er "blm" feels that this is just them working for the Bushies or was it a verification that the "folks who control them" are worried about the People Revolt over these revelations of NSA Global and US National Spying for Profit?



President Barack Obama has rightly called for a national discussion, which his administration and Congress should convene. It is unfortunate that this conversation begins only when an unauthorized leaker divulges secrets he has agreed, under penalty of law, to keep. But the issues are now before the public. It is time to trust the American people’s judgment about where to strike the balance between what is, after all, their security and their freedom

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Response to KoKo (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 07:21 PM

17. I'm not commenting on another DUer's comment.

It is time to trust the American people’s judgment about where to strike the balance between what is, after all, their security and their freedom


Feel good about that statement?

I'll wait and see what comes of it.

Yes, it is a shame it took this long to address the topic of spying etc..

We'll see.


Here: Just some info on the board

Board established in 2004

June 21, 2013

Obama to meet with privacy, civil liberties board

June 25, 2013

Privacy and Civil Liberties board works to inform public on NSA leaks


July 9, 2013

Former judge admits flaws in secret court


Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board Senate

On January 22, 2013, President Obama nominated David Medine to be Chairman and Member of the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board for a term expiring January 30, 2018 (new position). Medine was confirmed by the Senate on May 7, 2013.



July 9, 2013
Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, Legal Perspectives Meeting

July 7, 2013
PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES OVERSIGHT BOARD Notice of Meeting

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 08:29 PM

20. Good links...thanks..and we shall see what we shall see when "they get around to it."

I didn't expect much from them...but, did like that they didn't hammer Snowden and seemed to soften what he did in releasing the info to Press which opens debate rather than accusing him of Treason (as some have)...but that he'd brought an important issue up for the Public to be able to get involved with.

Sometimes...I'm too hopeful for change but I thought they were clear in not going after Snowden the way the Right Wing and Obama and some Democratic Leaders have done.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:49 PM

8. 9/11 commission didn't go far enough.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:04 PM

11. Yes...but, there are good people..long time DU'ers posting here

saying that it's some conspiracy to get Obama orchestrated by the Bush Family.



Kean did say that the "9/11 Commission didn't go far enough" but, I don't have time to get the links right now because gotta get dinner going.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:03 PM

10. There's a surprise.

Thanks, KoKo.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 08:35 PM

21. They didn't trash Snowden or accuse him of treason...and that was interesting...!

That they thought there needed to be more Public Dialog and that the program had gone beyond what they had recommended in the "9/11 Commission Report."

Thanks!

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:20 PM

13. "No Question" CIA Attempted "to Impede Our Investigation" Article with CNN Video

Check this out...I've got broccoli to cook...there is a CNN Video at the Link...I couldn't get it to embed here but it works at the site.

------------

9/11 Commission Chair: "No Question" CIA Attempted "to Impede Our Investigation"

Tom Kean says, "I mean, no question that we again and again and again asked for everything, and we needed it, and we weren't given it."

In its attempts to uncover all materials related to the 9/11 attacks, the 9/11 Commission specifically requested material about the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri. The New York Times has revealed that the CIA destroyed tapes of the two men's interrogation without informing the 9/11 Commission about their existence.

On Saturday, former CIA Deputy Director John McLaughlin told CNN:

,I think it's ludicrous to suggest, in fact, that we withheld anything of consequence from the 9/11 Commission. Anything that was on the tapes that would be relevant to their inquiry was given to them in writing, and the tapes would have simply not advanced their inquiry at all.

In fact, the tapes were highly relevant to the Commission's inquiry. Philip Zelikow -- the former staff director of the 9/11 Commission -- explained: "The Commission was not investigating the treatment of captives. But it did seek information not only about the 9/11 plot, but also any intelligence information about the history and evolution of al Qaeda and its connections to other terrorist entities. Therefore, from the start, the Commission sought to obtain all relevant information gleaned from the interrogation of captives."

This morning on CNN, 9/11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean there is "no question" the CIA was aware that its now-destroyed videotapes depicting severe interrogations were among evidence being sought by 9/11 Commission investigators, and the destruction of the tapes was an attempt to "impede our investigation":

We asked for every single thing that they had. And then my vice chairman, Lee Hamilton, looked the director of the CIA in the face, and said, Look, even if we haven't asked for something, if it's pertinent to our investigation, make it available to us. And our staff asked again and again of their staff and the tapes were not given to us. So, there was no question.[...]

I mean, no question that we again and again and again asked for everything, and we needed it, and we weren't given it. And so, the only conclusion we can draw is it was withheld from us. And that can only be seen to me as an attempt to impede our investigation.

CIA spokesman Mike Mansfield said recently that the tapes weren't destroyed until 2005 "because it was thought the commission could ask about the tapes at some point." So, the CIA withheld the tapes and destroyed the evidence later, ensuring no one could view them to determine whether they were relevant to the Commission's inquiry.

VIDEO AT LINK:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=979_1198606177

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 08:21 PM

19. I hope Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton message gets through.

 

All this spying on Americans has gone too far.

k&r

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:18 PM

22. Translation:

The two adults have spoken the words that all need hear, we are from the government, we come in peace, we are here to right the wrong, go to sleep, all is well.

More to the point. Control of the narrative to deflect the focus away from center of controversy and than begin injecting as many possibilities and variables while setting up a commission to investigate and report the message chosen that closely mimics the facts but draws a conclusion based on subterfuge.

Short version. Pretty convenient.

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Response to westerebus (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 08:16 PM

23. Ok...I was too optimistic on Hamilton and Kean doing anything that moved forward

REAL INVESTIGATION.

I get it now. I expected more from what these "Shills of Government Power" ...either WOULD or COULD Deliver!

I get it. Sorry....

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Response to KoKo (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:21 PM

24. No need for a sorry.

The upside is it tells us the administration is pulling as many strings as it can as fast as it can.

And please keep up the REAL INVESTIGATION as what you post is as real as it is going to get.

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