General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Crazy ass cracker"
Are you offended?
Is this an offensive term?
Just wondering...
41 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
Zimmerman is guilty | |
21 (51%) |
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Offended/Offensive | |
12 (29%) |
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Not Offended/Offensive | |
7 (17%) |
|
If I am on the jury I'm hiding this | |
1 (2%) |
|
2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I have never heard it here in NYC
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I'm not personally offended but I'd like to know what the fuck you're talking about.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Frustrated that Trayvon is on trial rather than Zimmerman.
I get the term is offensive but it is so beneath the point of the trial.
I'm angry.
Raine
(30,541 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Totally accurate description.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)But it wouldn't be anything worse than what regularly came out of Zimmerman's ugly mouth, the little toad.
Raine
(30,541 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Truly vicious verbal abuse requires skill.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)Not the same as face-to-face calling someone that term. Not quite.
Knock knock loved this phrase so much that he managed to make her repeat it 4 times in 60 seconds.
Raine
(30,541 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)with no African-American person able to hear, it's OK?
This isn't going to play well with the jury.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Not only that, what does "cracker" actually mean? "White person with bad intentions," "scummy white person" just "white person"?
Even the worst possible interpretations I can come up with don't rival the "N" word with all of it's historical context.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)I was listening to Chris Rock again last night and he's dead on.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)So don't get the impression that this is proof of some anti-"white" attitude. Consider what terms you would use if you'd find yourself being stalked... It's not as if he opened a valedictorian speech with those words... context...
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I am angry that instead of us prosecuting this man for murdering a kid we are making sure everyone knows what Trayvon said.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)I don't like either of those terms. They are both pejoratives.
However, I do understand and I can deal with the context Trayvon was using them given he was being stalked by Zimmerman.
Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
one_voice
(20,043 posts)No, not even close to as offensive.
Texasgal
(17,049 posts)Hello MIRT!
EvilAL
(1,437 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)EvilAL
(1,437 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Duh!
love that .gif
hahahahah
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)EvilAL
(1,437 posts)Raine
(30,541 posts)and you fucking know it!!!!!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)They're used by dominant bastards to verbally assault minorities.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)them.
Is that the path and the kind of dialogue Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandala encouraged?
carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)invented by whites to diss poorer rural whites-- I have a link but the links are screwing up again
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)"They're used by dominant bastards to verbally assault minority bastards."
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)It works like a charm.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Who used a slur of any kind????
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Both are racial slurs. imo
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Happens to me more than I'd like to admit.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The aggressor cannot transfer his state of being illegitimate or acting improperly onto the object of the abuse.
Also, said bastard would presume himself to not equal with the assaulted, or he would not attempt to do so.
The difference in power between the two is the trigger of the abuse. You do not abuse a peer or an equal.
Since they might just whup your ass.
IMHO.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)But that expression should not be used as it is pejorative.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)It was the sound of the whips that the slaves heard when they got the whip.
Crack!
so I dunno about it being offensive except to the poor people that had to endure the whipping. I can easily see it being a generic term used for the many way to keep beating on black people.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Thanks for the knowledge.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The word goes back to 1500's and meant 'braggart' or 'big talker'. It is used in Shakespeare.
Craic pronounced 'crack' is still the word for lively conversation in Ireland and certain other quarters. Scots Irish settlers in the harsh Southern colonies were called Crackers, an in Florida the term applied eventually and specifically to cowboys, Cracker Cowhunters.
The word does not come from the sound of a whip. It is older than the slave trade and it is still in use in the original meaning.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)d_r
(6,907 posts)I never knew that and it is interesting at this point in life to learn something new. I was always told that it came from living in a cracker house. they were called cracker houses because they looked like cracker boxes. they were the old wooden houses - metal roofs, front porch, rectangle. When I was growing up the poorer people lived in old cracker houses. So it made sense that people called poor people crackers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_cracker_architecture
http://www.oldhouseweb.com/architecture-and-design/cracker-farmhouses-1840-1920.shtml
http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/photos/arts/crackr/crackr.htm
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)The screened-in porch was important (some completely enclosed the house!), providing a cooler place to sleep (family members dragged mattresses out onto the porch to escape the hot kitchen where the wood-burning stove was always in use). The first Crackers arriving in Florida were highly nomadic & usually on foot and traveled with their livestock on pathworks & trails. These destitute people often could not make a living under the slave regime, and fled to Florida where slave culture was not as widespread beyond N. Florida, bookkeeping was bad, and no one wished to track you down for debts, crimes and CSA draft-dodging. Being nomadic, their "housing" didn't rate cracker-builts, but were make-shift lean-tos. If discovered squatting on private land, they had to move on if share-cropping could not be agreed to. Some reached frontier land where they could quit-claim as late as the 1920s.
Their living conditions were very harsh, and they suffered displacement frequently.
Ever heard of a cracker cart? A 2-wheeled cart drawn by a horse or other livestock, with the driver riding the animal. A text (1870) referenced similar vehicles in the St. Augustine area as "go-carts."
d_r
(6,907 posts)of a cracker cart! I didn't know so much about the nomadic lifestyle of the crackers. That's really interesting and makes a lot of sense.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Kali
(55,027 posts)RZM
(8,556 posts)As was pointed out up thread. It referred to settlers described as always 'cracking their mouths off,' or as we say today, 'talking a bunch of shit.' Same use as 'cracking a joke' or 'cracking wise.'
It's got nothing to do with whips or slavery.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Sound of very long whip cracking as cattle were driven out of thick brush & palmetto, notably in SW Florida. Cow Hunters (often another name for Crackers) had marginal need for rope, a decent saddle or even good boots, but they needed a long whip -- said to be heard for a mile.
(2) Those who cracked corn for moonshine (popular outside of Florida).
(3) One given to bragging & boasting, Scots origin.
(4) Sound of folks cracking pecans against each other.
Some dictionaries also reference Boer ethnicity in S. Africa. Our family's b.g. goes back to antebellum Florida. The term was not considered an insult; "white trash" was.
At a recent 4th of July parade in Micanopy, several "Crackers" on horseback paraded through, loudly cracking whips. One if the cow hunters was African-American.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)by a racist slur ? even if it is pretty mild and stupid ?
What's the most severe level of racist mockery that is allowed here, and is everybody fair game or just some, to some degree ?
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Because as a white person I have never ever been discriminated against, been unable to speak my mind, or been systematically destroyed of the color of my skin. That's what most people don't get. If you're a white person, you cannot charge anyone else with racism against you, because you have no idea what it means.
I've experience homophobia but I feel that racism is even worse. So I can't even imagine the difficulty is causes in daily life.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)orientation, but imagine the mixed feelings: yesterday the SCOTUS ripped the VRA apart. Today, they granted more civil rights to LGBT.
Black and minority LGBTs will still endure voter suppression.
SharonAnn
(13,781 posts)White women have some different experiences.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)It's like those yahoos (hope that term is OK) who go crazy because a minority group has their own prom, even though the white folks wouldn't allow blacks to go to "their" prom.
If Martin called that piece of crud Zimmerman a "cracker" and knocked him to the ground, he deserved it. Of course if Martin had prevailed, he would be rotting in jail.
Sometimes, "cracker" is an apt term, and deserved - such as in case of armed bigot.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)telling him/her that something said or done isn't racist or that racism is on the decline. How do they know? They're not black/minority!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You've laid out excellently the thing that gives such slurs their edge: power disparity. That disparity is what makes "honkey" or "cracker" laughable and childish-sounding, but keeps a sharp edge on "ni**er" or "coon." It's dependent on which side of the insult holds power over the other.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)and since I call myself the latter and don't consider it offensive, were I in Florida I'd probably be unoffended by "cracker"
ecstatic
(32,760 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)consequently a rural working class guy...which makes it similar to redneck sensu USA a rural working class person
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Cracker has become mainstream in pop culture like the n word. It's just another way of saying "white guy".
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)of the country you live in.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)When I was going to high school around 2000, the use of cracker between blacks and whites was a friendly jibe. This was in the Pacific Northwest, where (as long as I've lived) racial tensions are basically non-existent.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Calling anyone a "cracker" would have made everyone laugh! And think you meant white as a saltine. LOL.
Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Malone This message was self-deleted by its author.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Maybe that's because I'm white, straight and grew up in Mississippi. The N-word is offensive to black people, sure. And the F....t-word, etc, is offensive to LGBTs, for good reason.
Cracker just feels like white people just decided to be offended by a silly word when they still hold an inordinate amount of power.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Feels like we should be offended by something right? Totally ridiculous that this is even a thing.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)when we whine. Like fundamentalists sound when they whine about Christians being persecuted in the US. First, it diminishes persecution to nothingness. Second, it's just not true in a real or comparative sense.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)Someone accused me of being a racist one time just because I disagreed with them on something that wasn't even race related. The gist was that they said I disagreed with them because I didn't think a black man should be able to have his own opinion without having the white man's opinion... I find stuff like that more offensive than someone calling me a cracker.
Cracker. Peckerboy. White boy. Whatever. Those, to me, are just words with little meaning. Being a labeled a racist has far deeper meaning though that's probably more on par with a black person being called the N-word.
Current criticisms of people expressing criticism of our president has riled up a lot of people, perhaps because others feel the same way?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Doesn't matter what the context is, and it doesn't matter since Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and stalked a teenager against the advice of dispatch.
flamingdem
(39,333 posts)what are we going to censor humor too?
cracker has always sounded funny to me, crazy ass makes it funnier
Isoldeblue
(1,135 posts)unarmed child, who had every right to be where he was and what he was doing, being murdered by a gung-ho, vigilante hot-dog? No where close.
I have worse names for the GZ. He scared that poor boy. So that was relatively mild.
But I'm sure my favorite will be his next new one, "my bitch', for Georgie, by some lifer in prison.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)nt
marmar
(77,106 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)JenniferJuniper
(4,515 posts)Should I refer to the peanut butter and cr*****s my kid was eating earlier as "PB and biscuits" from now on?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)That must mean it is safe to use?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)then its peanut butter and n*****s
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)question everything
(47,551 posts)This term is quite common in Florida.
At least, when we lived there 20 years ago, Floridians were divided into crackers (natives) and conches (new comers).
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)if you are bigoted toward the right groups. fuck this bullshit...
sP
JenniferJuniper
(4,515 posts)whoever it's supposed to be insulting?
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)and see if you can figure out what part of your question needs correcting.
sP
freshwest
(53,661 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)i would suggest looking up the term bigot...
sP
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And that your comment, I replied:
95. Call me a list of bigoted names for white people. I'll tell you which one hurts. I'm white and have always been at ease about it. I'd like to know which names said by non-whites or whites feels as if you're being discriminated against, or offends you. I don't feel at all threatened or discriminated against just because I'm white, but I know I have been for other reasons. And please tell me which groups are the subject of bigotry at DU. I don't feel that way at all, but may be missing something.
Your reply didn't answer my questions, nor come up with a name to offend me:
106. so cracker isn't good enough for you? i would suggest looking up the term bigot...
You seem focused on the word cracker, but Z was also called creepy. What has that got to do with DU members?
I don't need to look up the term bigot as I already know, but don't use the term. It doesn't change hearts or minds. But you brought DU into this. So that is all the definition needed. The TOS at DU states:
No bigoted hate speech.
Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic. To be clear: This includes any post which states opposition to full equal rights for gays and lesbians; it also includes any post asserting disloyalty by Jewish Americans, claiming nefarious influence by Jews/Zionists/Israel, advocating the destruction of the state of Israel, or arguing that Holocaust deniers are just misunderstood. In determining what constitutes bigotry, please be aware that we cannot know what is in anyone's heart, and we will give members the benefit of the doubt, when and only when such doubt exists.
This is a thread with a poll based on a trial and the statement of a young man just before being shot dead by a stalker. Why make it about other DUers?
Really, you shot out the gate with that by yourself. I want to know why you are charging DUers with being bigoted.
I don't think bigotry is an attractive quality nor is it a quality or a privilege anyone would want to have, or would complain about not getting to express.
It appears you are saying it is a privilege to be a bigot at DU. Who is being afforded this privilege and who is not?
You appear to be saying that not all DUers are allowed equal rights. Who are the right groups that you speak of here?
As far as your question, you went off topic but, I'll answer you anyway.
Yes, cracker is good enough for me. Sure, call me a cracker. I won't be offended. I wouldn't call you a bigot for saying that or anything else. Will you call yourself a bigot then?
AFAIK, no one has ever called another member a cracker at DU, or anything on the list in the TOS. As I said, call me a cracker or whatever you want, it's like water off a duck's back. Although that would be a quacker, maybe. Feel free to call me that, too.
I'm not oppressed on the basis of my skin color and never have been. Calling me names for being white is laughable to me as I am not losing anything.
I don't call anyone names out the TOS here or any other kind of names, really. Why bother. DU was not the subject of this thread until you choose it to be.
Have a nice weekend.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)there was no context offered for the use of the term cracker... and i am sorry that the term cracker doesn't offend you. in most cases that i have experienced it is being used with the same hatred as that behind the n-word.
i find that no word is offensive... but the intent behind it... usually is.
sP
and yes, bigotry IS allowed on DU as long as it targets certain religious groups (for one instance)... take a look around... and to be honest, as long as members are slamming southern white guys... that bigotry is allowed as well... but some people act like THAT bigotry is almost a virtue.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)Trayvon was a racist. That doesn't mean Zimmerman is not guilty.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)The difference between a racist and a bigot is that bigots can be prejudiced, but have no power structure that backs up their bigotry. Racists by the current definition, rely on a white majority which backs up their bigotry and prejudice. The often silent /hidden power structure that backs up racism is absent when a black individual calls some white dude a "cracker"
Pelican
(1,156 posts)The terms themselves don't have anything to do with "power structures" or majorities.
One person of X ethnicity can be racist towards a million strong population of Y.
but thanks for playing. A powerless bigot is a bigot.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Belief in your race's superiority or another race's lack
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Less focused on race but an obvious example...
Note the lack of anything regarding historical population percentages or who is historically or currently the most oppresssed. Also not the lack of any qualifier that says that any bigot or racist must currently be in power.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)You don't believe in "white privilege" ?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)You are going to hope that I don't notice that you are ignoring the point of the conversation.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)yeah i'm trying to ignore your regressive attempt at false equivalence.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)... just because your don't know what the word means, doesn't mean that the rest of us have to accept your incorrect definition.
By the definition of the words, a homeless person with zero money, zero possessions and of an ethnicity that has been historically persecuted can be racist or bigoted towards members of a rich, powerful ethnic majority with no history of persecution.
Stomping your feet and holding your breath won't make the definition change. Call Webster...
bobduca
(1,763 posts)"Stomping my feet" oh you mean like claiming that "cracker" is a "racist" term?
The only ones offended by this term are white racists.
Oh and for the record, fuck cracker racists.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)Just keep digging... I'm sure you'll get out of that hole eventually...
bobduca
(1,763 posts)False equivalence in action. Enjoy your websters dictionary, thou lofty pedant.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)It's a good start. Now use it...
now off to the cracker barrel with you.
Tanuki
(14,926 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)How are they with onion dip?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)Not even close
Historic NY
(37,457 posts)Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)A cracker who acts in an insane manner?
A cracker who's rear end alone, is insane?
A cracker who owns an insane donkey?
A insane person who fractures rear ends?
bobduca
(1,763 posts)how about: Guilty, and not offended?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)JenniferJuniper
(4,515 posts)and my only experience with the term is from Margaret Mitchell's description of Scarlett's future brother-in-law in Gone With The Wind. Will Benteen was a "South Georgia Cracker" and the term was meant to describe his social status, not his color.
Apparently there are some places where some African Americans have more recently co-opted this word to describe some or all white people. How exactly is that doing any damage to Caucasians as a race? Sounds like there are people out here who are highly insulted by the term, but as your race has not endured what blacks have in this country, I fail to see how it's any different from my father calling anyone who doesn't use a turn signal in traffic a "shit head".
Its an insult. Dont let it ruin your day. And beware false equivalency.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)... and didn't just click on the poll.
It is a racist term, regardless of the origin of the word. I'm not insulted as I rarely care what anyone thinks of me, especially bigots.
All of the qualifiers in the world about who is the most oppressed don't justify or impugn. Racist is racist...
Notafraidtoo
(402 posts)As a white male if i was to be called a cracker i would first think that's a little rude then probably laugh on the inside a bit with out a second thought about it. Wouldn't really be offended because it has no meaning because i have never been treated poorly by authority,employers or society because of my race.
I Believe it depends on the power one has that uses the slur, A typical White male in America does not have the history of being oppressed that lets say a Typical Black male may have, Every thing is easiest in this country for a White male, when you have such automatic racial and sexual privilege it is difficult to be offended by a term attacking your race or sex.
Its a lot a like yelling at a Millionaire and saying "hey you money hording bastard", or calling someone who is extremely attractive "pretty boy" the privileges that come with good genetics or wealth just don't make insults on those things very cutting.
When your people have been murdered and enslaved and are still not equal that anger and lack of fairness weighs heavily on a man/women's shoulders,your daily life is subject to little things that White males don't have to put up with or even see so a racial or sexual comment can cut like a Knife.
Doesn't make it non offensive it just doesn't have the sting when you have all the advantages.
I know some on DU don't acknowledge that white privilege exists and may take issue with this post, I implore those that deny to please use empathy and actually give the issue thought.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Yep.
By the same token, it is why some people unthinkingly engage in the use of racial or other slurs, and are surprised to be chastised.
The thinking is, "I don't give a shit if someone calls me 'honky'". And I don't. Why should I care.
Does anyone still say "honky"? I never even knew why it was supposed to be insulting in the first place. I probably would have laughed out loud if anyone ever called me one, because it's such a funny word.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And Zimmermann is guilty as sin. BTW, I'm also 'whiter' than he is.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Zimmerman is GUILTY.
a kennedy
(29,740 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Their brand anyway.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)That's the only thing that matters in this case. Did he murder Martin or did he protect himself.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)to kill someone.
crim son
(27,464 posts)I've heard the term "cracker" used many times to describe somebody who is behaving crazily or stupidly and have zero doubt that Zimmerman appeared that way to Trayvon the night he was murdered.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)see if they felt offended.
The hosts were incredibly honest about it, and weren't offended by anything.
One of them said a lot of white people WANTED to be offended more than they actually were offended.
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)I'm not on the jury, so it doesn't matter what I think (I honestly don't know if he's guilty or not).
Oh, and I call white people crackers and honkeys all the time. Mostly because I know a lot of crazy-ass crackers. Takes one to know one, and all that.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)KING SAMIR SHABAZZ says black people should create militias to exterminate whites, skin them alive, pour acid on them, sic pit bulls on them, bust their heads with rocks and even raid nurseries to "kill everything white in sight."
"I would love nothing more than to come home with a cracker's head in my book bag," Shabazz, a Philly street preacher and national field marshal for the New Black Panther Party, said on a black-power radio show.
http://articles.philly.com/2013-06-27/news/40208598_1_new-black-panther-party-million-youth-march-north-philly
I agree with responses above that it may have regional connotations, however the word 'cracker' certainly has racial motivations...
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)The outrage will be epic.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)If I start getting all outraged over words, people who want to upset me will just use those words more. Better to laugh it off.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Words used to defame the dominant majority have zero power to inflict hurt or pain. It's like trying to argue that calling a guy a dick is the equivalent of calling a woman a c*nt. It's laughable and so is anyone else who thinks there is an equivalency.