It is time...

[kentuck]

...to raise your hand and stand up, turn your foot sideways and draw a line in the sand.

No!

We cannot stand by as our country goes down. We do not support spying on our citizens because it is not necessary. It is not a Democratic or Republican Party position.

We do not accept the parameters set by George W Bush and Dick Cheney. They were wrong then and their policies are wrong now. There is no need to discard any part of our Constitution to fight the "war on terror". In fact, there is no "war on terror". It is an idea created to rob us of our freedoms.

We have the tools and the defense our country needs to fight any and all enemies without the secret plans of spies and big shot contractors. We do not agree with collecting data for some imaginary event that "might" happen in the future, in the hopes that we can collect all the names in the cells that have infiltrated our country. That is a fantasy. No secret government bureaucracy is better than the citizens - that live in neighborhoods all across this country - in finding and reporting suspicious activities and shady characters. Neighborhood Watch is better than the NSA at protecting our neighborhoods. We understand that we can have enemies abroad but we will not find them with computers out in the desert. That is an illusion. We will find them as we have always have found them- with people trained to do such work.

There should be oversight on every government agency, big or small. They work for we, the people, and we have a right to know what they are doing.

We will not surrender our rights, as guaranteed by our Bill of Rights. We support "whistle-blowers" when they are telling the people what the government is doing behind our backs. We do not support a government that does those types of things. That government is not legitimate and not deserving of support.

We stand for our country and the Constitution before we stand for our Party. That is the line we need to draw in the sand.

[liberal_at_heart]

1. well said!

[NightWatcher]

2. time to rise up, send a sternly worded email, sign a petition....

That the spy agency has been exposed for spying shouldn't come as a surprise. Haven't we been saying this for at least 12 years.

Nothing will change, we will continue to monitor other country's electronic signal intelligence. The NSA is having a huge laugh at all of this sudden outrage.

Breaking News: water is wet, spy agencies spy.

[ReRe]

24. And governments lie. :-( n/t

[backwoodsbob]

3. and do what?

What exactly are we do draw a line in the Sand and what do you propose we do?

[kentuck]

4. You don't have to accept what they are selling.

You are not a tool to be used as they see fit. You are a person with rights that should be respected. That might be a good start.

[backwoodsbob]

5. nice words

So you want to send a strongly worded letter

[kentuck]

7. Send a letter to yourself.

It is we that need convincing - not the government. So long as we continue to accept these types of government wrongdoing, it will continue to get worse and worse until we no longer have a government or a country. First, we must decide what we want.

[NRaleighLiberal]

6. I drew a line in 2000 during the election theft. I've drawn many lines.

they all get crossed. Today is just another one, sadly - one of many.

[LadyHawkAZ]

8. And when the line gets crossed, and it WILL get crossed,

what would you (or anyone) recommend that we do? Calling Congress right fucking now!!!1!, or expressing our outrage in the strongest possible terms on a message board that only one congressman actually participates in, don't seem to be having much effect.

Not to dog on your ideals, because I agree with them, but DU lately has been heavy on the ideals and a bit short on the actual solutions.

[kentuck]

10. There is only one thing they value that you have.

Your vote.

[OnyxCollie]

15. It seems stupid to trust people to vote.

(As far as the PTB are concerned.)

Just let the proles pretend they're doing something, and rig the results.

Guess what? One of the authors of HAVA is now the Secretary of Defense, and has the NSA operating under his purview.

[HappyMe]

9. Well, there's this --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023092653

[Initech]

11. Why is everyone angry at Swoden when we should be angry at the authors of the Patriot Act?

That's like being mad at the exterminator when you should be mad at those that unleashed the pests into the room in the first place.

[michigandem58]

12. You might want to read up on Pelosi's fact sheet.

"We do not accept the parameters set by George W Bush and Dick Cheney." They were changed.

"There should be oversight on every government agency" Oversite of the NSA was enhanced.

[avaistheone1]

13. Perhaps Pelosi should read her own fact sheet as well as

ensure that oversight is effective and doesn't intrude on the privacy of Americans. That would be more meaningful than her referencing vague rhetoric.

[Coccydynia]

14. Lines in the sand always erode with time.

[kentuck]

16. They are not physical "lines"...

They are rhetorical lines that can etch deeply into our minds and hearts. That is what we need.

[Elmergantry]

17. Meh! Paint me Cynical but this is what I am reminded about...

[link:

||

[WillyT]

18. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[democrank]

19. Thank you, kentuck.

Reply #4 is worth rereading.

[cantbeserious]

20. Hear, Hear - Kentuck - I Stand For The Constitution And Bill Of Rights

eom

[lastlib]

21. ^ ^ THIS ^ ^

1984 was a warning--NOT an instruction manual!

HELL, no, I won't go--quietly. We are Americans. Our government should be quivering and cowering in fear of us--not vice versa. We are not sheep, to be led to slaughter, bleating contentedly. This.Must.Not.Stand!

[felix_numinous]

22. We have hackable voting machines,

African Americans being purged from voting, we sign petitions, demonstrate, and write our asses off expressing our opinions and the country continues to drift further away from representing us. In fact it has become vogue to ridicule anyone questioning or wishing to dialogue with our representatives, and this is creating an equal but opposite reaction from those needing to be heard.

Not having a voice has inspired hecklers, hackers, whistleblowers-- because all other options are off the table!! When peaceful dissent becomes illegal, Democracy has had a systems failure. And the only response government comes up with is to vilify, character assassinate and ridicule--not to mention intimidate and punish the people who risk their lives to get the truth out. Many of these people have TRIED to appeal up the chain of command and failed, which inspired the next generation of dissenters to go rogue. Now no one can complain about anything. Domestic threats will not be addressed, it is a recipe for abuse.

For me, it is easier to call this a systems failure. As much as I despise the RW personalities that brought it on, I have equal respect for President Obama as an individual. I admire people for their loyalty to him, and are well aware of what having an African American as president means to people who have struggled to have any representation or dignity in this country, as well as the historic significance. And I am aware of the outright racism that saturates the mainstream and tabloid media--I find it deeply disturbing. But I find it even MORE disturbing to wonder WHAT could make a man do a 180 on principles he spent a lifetime developing. What happened to him??? I have a failing loyalty too-- and would rather think he is surrounded by crooks, it is the way I'm dealing with it. You can't go against the NSA.

The POLICIES being put into place have highest chance of being turned against minorities, gays, women and foreigners. I am a humanitarian and cannot betray my conscience. So call me names I don't care.

[marions ghost]

26. Good point

"Not having a voice has inspired hecklers, hackers, whistleblowers-- because all other options are off the table!! "

[Uncle Joe]

23. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kentuck.

[kentuck]

27. How are you, Uncle Joe?

[Uncle Joe]

28. Doing well,

I hope you are as well, kentuck.

[ReRe]

25. K&R

Everything you said!