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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere is apparently no real evidence that Snowden was ever in Moscow.
11.27 BST
My colleague Miriam Elder didnt manage to get on that plane to Cuba but shes very glad, since it seems Edward Snowden never got on it either. I just spoke to her.
She said Aeroflot officials had told her with a little smirk that they had been expecting Snowden too.
But Miriam pointed out that Snowden had never actually been sighted in Moscow, and there was actually no real evidence that he had ever been in Russia at all.
Meanwhile a planeload of journalists are now off to spend the day in Cuba
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/edward-snowden-booked-on-plane-from-moscow-to-havana-live-coverage
As I said elsewhere - smoke and mirrors.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world/edward-snowden-nsa-surveillance-leak.html?pagewanted=3&smid=tw-nytimes&partner=rss&emc=rss
On whether Moscow would still consider a request for asylum from Snowden, Peskov added: "Every application is considered so it's standard procedure We are not tracing his movements and I know nothing."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-arrives-moscow
Who's playing chess now lol?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)I noticed that quote yesterday.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)and Iceland appreciates a good game and a good player.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)@nycjim: Judging from tweets by @MiriamElder & other reporters in #Moscow, dozens of journos are on Aeroflot flight to Cuba. But #Snowden isn't.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Its about a 9 hour flight from the UK so I guess a bit more from Moscow.
Hope none are carrying satellite 'phones - they'd be confiscated on entry.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)How long does it take a Russian military jet to get to Ecuador btw?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)least of all if they need to refuel whatever.
Having said that I just checked a word map and Russia seems to be only about 5 inches away from Ecuador.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)What do you want to bet Snowden is already in Ecuador lol? Or China? Or any number of countries?
It's a big, big world ot there lol
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Its 6 inches on your map.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Keystone fucking cops. "Where in the world is Edward Snowden?" Journalists on the ground in Cuba. That is so GD funny. Damn my side hurts. Carry on....
Catherina
(35,568 posts)The overwhelming majority of people talking about this story there are firmly in Snowden's corner and some of the locations, the tweets are hilarious lol
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)@ezraklein: How are you feeling, journalist who got on Aeroflot 150 from Moscow to Havana? NOT GREAT BOB!
MADem
(135,425 posts)I imagine the reporters are sad they drew the Snowden straw, unless one or more of them has a bottle of vodka in their carry on.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/edward-snowden-booked-on-plane-from-moscow-to-havana-live-coverage#block-51c821e2e4b0c1d5e990ab41
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Dearie, dearie, dearie, tut.
You know, I wonder if they feel a little bit silly now.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)with that vile McCain sending tweets
Last Saturday, McCain tweeted, #ArabSpring comes Moscow Russians rally vs Putin, election fraud, linking to a report on anti-government protests in Moscow.
Today, Putin responded, calling McCain, nuts.
He has a lot of blood of peaceful civilians on his hands. He must relish and cant live without the disgusting, repulsive scenes of the killing of Gadhafi, Putin said, referring to McCains role as a pilot and prisoner of war in Vietnam, according to the Associated Press.
...
McCain mocked Putin back, tweeting this morning, Dear Vlad, is it something I said, and taking to the Senate floor to read, for the record, Putins comments. Apparently, Mr. Putin was not amused, McCain said on the Senate floor, I believe that he has been shaken, as he should have been, by the massive demonstrations that have taken place in Moscow and other cities in Russia.
...
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/john-mccain-taunts-putin-via-twitter/
Asshole
timdog44
(1,388 posts)McCain has entered his second childhood. It is time for some tender loving care, somewhere else.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Almasry Alyoum Published in Almasry Alyoum on 24 - 06 - 2013
...
The White House said it expected the Russian government to send Snowden back to the United States and lodged "strong objections" to Hong Kong and China for letting him go.
...
The Kremlin and the Russian government did not immediately comment. But Russian officials were defiant, saying Moscow had no obligation to cooperate with Washington after it passed the so-called Magnitsky law, which can impose a visa ban and asset freeze on Russian officials accused of human rights violations.
"Ties are in a rather complicated phase and when ties are in such a phase, when one country undertakes hostile action against another, why should the United States expect restraint and understanding from Russia?" said Alexei Pushkov, the head of the foreign affairs committee in the lower house of parliament.
...
A State Department official said Washington had told countries in the Western Hemisphere that Snowden "should not be allowed to proceed in any further international travel, other than is necessary to return him to the United States."
...
http://www.masress.com/en/almasryalyoumen/1875281
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)and all the reporters are complaining on Twitter that it's a dry flight. No alcohol being served.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)I bet those reporters would've been a nightmare for others on the flight anyway legging it up and down the aisles in constant attempts to put further spin on this subject.
First time I went to Cuba there were 3 UK couples on board going there to get married. They and their friends drunk the plane dry before we were half way there.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I'm sure they're still being paid to gin up the excitement, though.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)I do wonder if that wikipedia plane mentioned earlier
is in play. I read earlier that multiple tickets were bought
which were diversional.
He could catch that private plane out of moscow without notice as compared to q commercial flight.
I just don't know anything about the type of plane an icelander said he would donate for use let alone its range.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)siligut
(12,272 posts)With all the information the NSA has access to, that seems like a no-brainer. Of course he could have just missed the plane.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)so not much to trace.
siligut
(12,272 posts)Snowden is being aided by powerful people. He probably wouldn't use his passport even if it were active.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)And the NSA can't see much because everyone changed their encryption keys. LMAO!
siligut
(12,272 posts)He thought this through and is apparently much more knowledgeable than the press makes him appear.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)malaise
(269,256 posts)Is this a Peter Sellers movie or is Spy vs Spy the new reality?
Demeter
(85,373 posts)One might even say....liberating!
Catherina
(35,568 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world/edward-snowden-nsa-surveillance-leak.html
malaise
(269,256 posts)East Coast Pirate
(775 posts)Standing next to Edward Snowden's seat on flight to Cuba. He ain't here.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Ricardo Patiño Aroca, Ecuadors foreign minister, is holding a press conference in 9 minutes time
From Hanoi.... the minister was already there so I don't think Snowden is there but we might find out more
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Beautiful irony in the US getting upset about #Snowden going to Cuba to avoid the law, which is exactly why Bush put Guantanamo there! #NSA
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! RT @mattyglesias Unlike Snowden, the US intel community would never make an alliance of convenience with unsavory regimes.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/edward-snowden-booked-on-plane-from-moscow-to-havana-live-coverage#block-51c82cd5e4b0e5e3073a9db9
FOUND HIM>>>@msnnews_ian: Snowden "spotted" in North Wales.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Monkie
(1,301 posts)whatever you say about snowden, he is a nerd, a nerd who has been hanging around on the internet since he is 17, he is anything but stupid, and a lot of people have been fooled by this whole charade, among them a lot of members of the press.
i really doubt he is going anywhere near south-america.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)It's a strong Leftist country where the President has very little opposition and that opposition is from the hard Left. He also doesn't play games with the US.
If course he could stay in Russia or China but my money's on Ecuador and the ALBA bloc.
Monkie
(1,301 posts)he might go to ecuador, i just personally think it is risky, not so much because of the government there, which has strong progressive credentials, i worry about rendition if he crosses international airspace, and i worry that the US governments previous meddling in the region would allow them to think they had more of a right to rendition him illegally from ecuador, or believe that they could get away with it.
i think he would be safer in mainland europe where he could drag this through the court for years regardless of the politics of the government in power in any of the nations.
i have personal reasons for hoping he stays in europe, i want to the evidence he has used to severely punish those US companies that broke EU laws to collaborate in this spying while evading taxes on multi-billion euro profits.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)and avoid US airspace. There are so many routes to take to get to Ecuador too. Wikileaks lawyer was just on Democracy Now saying he's "on a safe route to Ecuador" so I assume that means no US airspace. If anyone knows how dirty the US plays, it's wikileaks and Snowden. They won't leave the US an opening to nab him in transit.
Mainland Europe is too easy imo and the European governments can't be trusted not to cooperate with the US because this scandal touches them too. I think it would be even easier to illegally extradite him from Europe and they'd turn a blind eye to it until later when they'd issue a few feeble protests. His information, the same information, will keep coming regardless of where he is and in Ecuador, he'd have a cooperative government and press to support him.
Monkie
(1,301 posts)i did not suggest he had to cross US airspace, but international airspace is covered by international law, and the US has treated international law as toilet paper for a long time?
you could be right about europe, but the laws are very clear in europe with regards to extradition, asylum, and political offenses. and i see a parallel with a recent case in the UK, where a "blind terrorist hate preacher" who was blinded and lost his arms while "defusing a landmine" in afghanistan dragged his extradition case through the UK and EU courts for 8 years, his "political" case was weak to say the least.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)'to the highest bidder'. They lie with a casual ease. They speak those lies with great conviction.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 24, 2013, 11:12 AM - Edit history (1)
Wilileaks handles the main one. Assange just put this out a few minutes ago.
Asked about how Snowden had been able to travel after his US passport had been cancelled, Assange said Snowden was supplied with a refugee document of passage by the Ecuadoran government. But this did not imply they would accept his asylum application.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/edward-snowden-booked-on-plane-from-moscow-to-havana-live-coverage#block-51c85f74e4b0e19fe8d756e1
Franker65
(299 posts)Think about it - he doesn't show up and a jet load of journalists fly to Cuba....
Rise Rebel Resist
(88 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)LIVE: "#Snowden is on a safe route to #Ecuador," says @justleft, an attorney to #WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. http://democracynow.org
kentuck
(111,111 posts)I'm sure they have more than just one airport in Moscow? Why would we assume he landed in Moscow? Maybe he is being held by the Russians for questioning and "de-briefing"? There is a distinct possibility that several lies were told about his departure and where he was headed, etc? Maybe he is still in Hong Kong?
patrice
(47,992 posts)mid- and upper-mid- level, assault-weapon-armed, managers for the stateless Citizens of the Archipelago.
Explains a lot about why background checks are such anathema to gun-owners.